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Geoff Baker covers the Mariners for The Seattle Times. He provides daily coverage of the team throughout spring training, and during the season.

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August 18, 2008 8:56 PM

Same as it ever was

Posted by Larry Stone

This is getting monotonous. The Mariners got crushed tonight, 13-5, as Jarrod Washburn didn't make it out of the fifth inning. He gave up eight runs and is now 0-4, 7.36 in four starts since the July 31 trade deadline. Here's Washburn's assessment of his night:

"Early in the game, I thought I made some good pitches. All the hits in the second inning were on good pitches. Swisher's homer was on a changeup that Jeff (Clement) said would have been a ball, low and away. I don't know if he was guessing changeup or what.

"In the fifth, the walk (to No. 9 hitter Juan Uribe) didn't help. The home run by Cabrera was a fly ball in most parks. After that, I lost concentration a little bit.''

A couple of other tidbits: Betancourt's homer was his first since May 28, a span of 241 plate apperances; the seven wild pitches over the last two games is a club record. I'd guess it's pretty close to a major-league record, but I'm not sure how to look that up tonight. Maybe we'll find out tomorrow.

The one bright spot was three hits by Clement, the first three-hit game of his career. He's now 6-for-9 in his last three games and says he's starting to relax at the plate. He did some of his damage tonight against a lefty, Mark Buehrle. All good signs on an otherwise lousy night. Ichiro and Ibanez also had three hits as the Mariners managed 15 hits in a losing effort. One key stat: 13 LOB.

I'll leave with Riggleman's obligatory glass half full quote:

"It's demoralizing to continue to get beat, but I'm also encouraged to see the progress we've made the last month offensively,'' he said. "Now the pitching is struggling. One of the two has gotten us for what seems like weeks at a time. It's a shame to waste all this hitting we've gotten in the last month.''

On second thought, maybe even Riggleman's glass is only a quarter full.

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Posted by Balentienforcer

9:13 PM, Aug 18, 2008

See Geoff, should've spent time on something better this morning. Like analyzing the Mill Creek Little League team.......at least they win!!

Posted by Esteban

9:16 PM, Aug 18, 2008

Ah, Deviation to the Mean ‘tis a cruel wench indeed, sparing neither our xenophobic friend, the ‘Great White Nope’ nor his protectorate, Mr. Baker. I’m really not looking forward to another year with J-Wash and his goofy, corn-fed smile, although Geoff would surely miss the presence of ‘Mr. Accountability’. Man, between the Great one and the Chef, the M’s are shelling out $22 a year for replacement level pitching. Unbelievable.

Go Rays!

Posted by sokala

9:23 PM, Aug 18, 2008

Riggleman is now able to insult my intelligence almost every day now. That has to be a record too. This really going to be "one for the record books" (stealing from the title of the Mariners 2001 post season PR). Hope you or the Times do a post season record roll-up for the year. Maybe someone in the FO will read it, but then again we assume they can read.

Posted by David Byrne

9:24 PM, Aug 18, 2008

You may find yourself, rooting for a crappy team. You may find yourself, wishing it was football season....You may find yourself with a terrible, overpaid pitching staff....You may find yourself in a beautiful stadium...with a God awful team...And you may ask yourself, "Well, how did we get here?"

Posted by Esteban

9:29 PM, Aug 18, 2008

I meant to say $22 MILLION a year. Big difference.

Posted by ethan

9:29 PM, Aug 18, 2008

when i think of the last week and a half...what are we??..2-11? i can only think and feel...WE ARE TOTALLY TURNING IT AROUND

Posted by Dave

9:29 PM, Aug 18, 2008

So either Washburn hasn't 'turned around'. More like, he's come full-circle. Back to mediocrity. Maybe even below mediocrity? This game was ugly.

Posted by gwinnbo

9:40 PM, Aug 18, 2008

Washburn quit on the M's because they failed twice to move him and his awful contract. What are they doing? They aren't going anywhere fast and should be letting young pitchers throw the innings even if they get shelled to learn the game up at the big league level. This is just plain awful. Now, the M's will probably either start next year w/ Wash again in the rotation, or cut him and eat his salary when someone else could have written those checks. Their management sucks. This team is a joke!

Posted by Sounders

9:57 PM, Aug 18, 2008

David Byrne:

Good one.


Chuckie: Objection! Objection!

Judge: You can't object, Mr. Armstrong. The facts are already in evidence. You are an idiot. That cannot be disputed. Move on.

Posted by ghph

9:57 PM, Aug 18, 2008

The Senators had 4 knuckleballers in their rotation for a couple of years, so 7 wild pitches in two games isn't necessarily close to the record.

Look at the bright side M's fans, things could get a whole lot worse. You need several more horrendous years to rival what Kansas City has and still is going thru.

Posted by meagain

10:05 PM, Aug 18, 2008

Washburn must have disappointed himself tonight. He disappointed me, and Geoff must be feeling betrayed.

Watching a game like that while eating dinner = not a good idea.

Come on, Felix, we're dyin' here.

Posted by Sounders

10:07 PM, Aug 18, 2008

Riggleman Post Game Press Conference:

Reporter: When is the turnaround coming?

Riggleman: (dressed up like Steven Tyler) "Same old story, same old song and daaaaance my friend...yeah! Rock out!"

Posted by grant

10:12 PM, Aug 18, 2008

What is everybody so upset about? We are in a heated race for the worst record in baseball (aka the #1 pick in the draft). This game is exactly what we need to beat out San Diego and Washington for worst place.

Posted by Buzz Lightyear

10:15 PM, Aug 18, 2008

I think Riggleman's glass is half-full -- with scotch. This organization is broken and the team is simply not worth watching. I hope significant changes take place both on the roster and in the front office.

Posted by 2bagr

10:44 PM, Aug 18, 2008

Riggleman is only an interim manager, but in many ways he is the perfsct face of this franchise.

he will never demand excellence, never show passion, ans he will excuse incompetence until the cows come home, until one begins to suspect that he is doing so out of fear that it might prompt somebody to examine his performance more carefully.

he is the anti-Lou, and i wold not be surprised to see Riggleman remain as the M's manager,. for the same reasons that Lou ws driven out of town, to a team that wins, while the M's FO wallows in the muck of their ineptitude.

Posted by Stop Making Sense

10:50 PM, Aug 18, 2008

Relax and enjoy the loss. We made up .5 game on the Nationals for worst record. Hello Strasburg.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/sports/olympics/20pitcher.html?_r=1&scp=4&sq=strasburg%20baseball&st=cse&oref=slogin

Posted by BWare

10:58 PM, Aug 18, 2008

"I don't know why they hit me like they do,
After all the pitches I learned and I threw,
They ripped my change-ups, and crushed my splitters,
Not outs yet, but pitched to all hitters,

I don't wanna know what Lee'll tell me,
Don't wanna staaaaaaaaaaaaaay,

Trade me to the Yankees,
Waive to Minnesota..."


Posted by ragarm

11:03 PM, Aug 18, 2008

Yeah Larry,
his glass is only a quarter full and his brain is totally empty.

Wiggleworm tows the company line and speaks the company talking points. I'm sure Lee, Howard, and Chuckie love the guy for his loyalty and puppet like behavior.

Seeing Lou brings back such good happy feelings. I remember his frustration in Seattle and I feel good again knowing he is achieving success with his "Win!" attitude.

Wiggleworm had less than a stellar record managing before he came to the M's. It has faded even further into the abyss of baseball hell.

Posted by SICK56

11:09 PM, Aug 18, 2008

FLUFFY is now 23-42 in less than 3 years with Seattle.

Posted by wag the dog

11:17 PM, Aug 18, 2008

It was shrewd of the Mariners to keep Washburn. He's enhancing his trade value with every additional start and he's giving the Mariners quality innings and leadership to boot.

I really think with one or two key free agent pick ups that the Mariners will be contenders in 2009.

Posted by McArthur

11:32 PM, Aug 18, 2008

Deleted for content

Posted by Masked Blogger

11:44 PM, Aug 18, 2008

Glad to see things haven’t gotten out of hand here(McArthur@11:32).lol

Also I'm not seeing what's wrong with Riggeman's quote, I mean what can he say when our pitching gives up 13.
And he is right our hitting has gotten better, so just chill, it's not like we can be any wors.lol ^_^

Posted by terry AT

12:13 AM, Aug 19, 2008

I posted this on the forum on July 28, 2007 and I stand behind every word.
"Bavasi had four years to destroy this franchise. It will take at least that long to rebuild it. It takes years to grow a forest, but with a single match you can destroy it in a single day. I want to see this entire organization mature and grow....the farm system of teaching and development, drafting, scouting, acquisitions, and finally the major league roster. After years of dumpster diving trying to hit the lottery with aged veterans, watching young players hit the majors with huge flaws in fundamentals, draft failures, and horrible trades, it's time for an overhaul. All of that was compounded with a year of the worst game management we have seen since the tenure of Maury Wills and a complete denial of the state of the M's and the potential of the team since the collapse last year in Texas. By the way, the other teams in our division are not standing still, but getting better and preparing for the future. The Angels are an impressive organization, great management, a great farm system, an involved gutsy owner. We're not going to be able to overtake them with Lee Pelekudos and a couple free agent signings. The A's who are better right now than the Mariners and still throwing in the towel have already this year acquired 20 prospects for four players. Billy Beane will very likely be parting with even more talent as he sets the Athletics up to be a force for the next 5-6 years. And in Texas, Daniels has merely put together the most exciting offense in the American League. Club President Nolan Ryan is no slouch either. He knows a bit more about pitching than say, Chuck Armstrong, and that team is going to continue to make good moves. I know, Tampa Bay is loaded, the Red Sox and the Yankees have all the money but I see this Division has a chance to be the toughest division in baseball through the next 5-6 years.
We need the best in management to be able to flourish and compete, not nice guys Armstrong, Pelekudos, and Riggleman."

We have squandered every opportunity to improve this club by not clearing out players when we had the chance. Armstrong, Lincoln, Pelekudos, and Riggleman have to go.

Posted by Jack

12:17 AM, Aug 19, 2008

Washburn shouldn't have disappointed ANYBODY tonight. He pitched to his ability. If you were expecting better tonight, it's a problem with you, not a problem with Jarrod.

Posted by Balentienforcer

12:23 AM, Aug 19, 2008

AMEN, terry AT.

Maybe they found some of Maury's stash in an old duffel bag early on.

Ellis seemed to step down at the right time....Please do the same Howie and Chuck....Please.

Posted by Troy206

1:09 AM, Aug 19, 2008

Fun numbers to consider, for all those that think $10 - 12 million is the going rate for decent league average starters, Out of the Chicago Cubs starting rotation only Carlos Zambrano at $16 million yearly makes more than Washburn ($9.85 million & $8.2 million man Silva) YIKES. Rich Harden is at $4.75 million. (Numbers courtesy of ESPN.com) Miguel Batista is bringing in $9.5 million, conversely Ryan Dempster $7.3 million.

All I'm saying is this organization has to change the way it goes about finding talent, we need to refocus are revenue elsewhere cause this ain't workin.

It's time to rebuild through the farm and finding a GM who has the smarts and wits to pick out young talent and then showing the skills to go aquire that talent. Anyway you slice it this ship needs time and patience to get it right.

Posted by Troy206

1:14 AM, Aug 19, 2008

Batista makes more than the entire Tampa Rays starting rotation combined OUCH!!!

Posted by Bums

2:34 AM, Aug 19, 2008

Geoff, that is why so many of us vilify Washburn. Now we are stuck watching him do this the rest of this season and most likely next. Next year looks gloomy for this pitching rotation of overpaid losers, but hey apparently the stadium is an amusement park, so people will continue to come and management will continue to make bad move after bad move. Gotta love these guys.

Posted by lefty

4:35 AM, Aug 19, 2008

I have watched the Mariners from the beginning of the year and was amazed at the lack of passion from opening day until the managerial change. During the Baltimore series in April I watched a team sleepwalk to 4 straight losses. I was amazed that it was tolerated. Since Riggleman has taken over they are playing much harder and managerial moves are being made proactively rather than the too little ,too late approach from the beginning of the year. We have a manager now, so lets set some of the dead wood adrift and bring up some young players with passion and energy next year.

Posted by ricofoy

6:20 AM, Aug 19, 2008

For a Mariner fan are there more appropriate song lyrics than.."I'm a loser baby. So why don't you shoot me".
In fact, much like the Sox do with Sweet Caroline, I suggest the organization play this song during the 7th inning stretch. I could see everyone singing..after all, misery loves company.

Posted by ricofoy

6:27 AM, Aug 19, 2008

The only good thing to come of the destruction of this franchise is that I'm starting to take care of myself a little more. I know the only possible chance I have to see a Mariner championship is to outlive those two stupid bleeps who are running, or should I say ruining, this team.

Posted by Pirata Morado

7:40 AM, Aug 19, 2008

To Geoff or Larry:

Please talk about Beltre dismal season. In your report you say that we left 11 on base, well, Beltre alone had 8 LOB! And he keeps batting cleanup.

You can use a great stat like WPA to show that Beltre is not what we need in the future. As a reference: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=0&season=2008&month=0

His WPA right now is -2.73, he ranks #155 out of 158 qualified batters. And he keeps batting cleanup for us!!!!

Posted by peterineverett

7:42 AM, Aug 19, 2008

Geoff,

I'm really interested in something. When you came to Seattle you seemed to be befuddled by the discontent in the fanbase. After seeing this franchise operate for a couple of years do you have a better understanding of why we are frustrated?

I'm not asking you to agree with us. But do you at least see our side now? I can't imagine there are many other franchises that are run as poorly as this one. Let us know.

Posted by Draigh

7:42 AM, Aug 19, 2008

Can't wait until next year! The we have the Sounders to watch!

Posted by Esteban

7:45 AM, Aug 19, 2008

So J-Wash is now now 0-4, 7.36 in four starts since the July 31 trade deadline. I think it is now really obvious that we’re stuck with him through next year. Looks like we’ll have plenty more ‘Happy Jarrod Days’ to enjoy.

Posted by kaseyswagger

7:48 AM, Aug 19, 2008

And this is why nobody compares Washburn to Felix Hernandez cmon. Seriously I agree I rather hear about the Mill Creek little league team

Posted by scottM

8:11 AM, Aug 19, 2008

"My post was a glass-is-one-eighth-full attempt to address GEOFF's question and all the what-ifs it would take for the M's to make a playoff run in 2009."

"On second thought, maybe even Riggleman's glass is only a quarter full."

Larry:
You might find yourself tarred and quartered, eighthed or halfed for stealing your material from the bloggers, like this.

You might ask yourself...

Posted by RagArm

8:21 AM, Aug 19, 2008

At the first of the season, Batista kept telliing the press that his pitches were all "good" too, just like Washburn is now. If the pitches are good, they shouldn't be hit. The Mariners' bats don't hit "good" pitches, for example.

Clement's potential shows once in a while as does Balentine's and La Hair's. There is a glimmer of hope, but those guys, add on Felix, make four out of nine. Not quite 50% so we are not half full yet.

Posted by shoshonesports

8:30 AM, Aug 19, 2008

Maybe they should schedule an exhibition with the Mill Creek and Mariner team. Put Jarrod Washedup on the mound and see what happens.

My prediction, the Mariners have to pull in out in the ninth

Posted by ragarm

8:31 AM, Aug 19, 2008

terry AT your entry was worthy of being re-posted. I say, "ditto."

Posted by scottM

8:41 AM, Aug 19, 2008

Hey Balentienforcer,

We're going to let Larry Stone off the hook this time. He once wrote this cool piece on Mill Creek's finest baseball product,

Grady Sizemore


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCI/is_5_66/ai_n27280504

Posted by tugboatcritic

8:44 AM, Aug 19, 2008

Troy206- Your point is well taken and as stated before, I'm no fan of Washburn, just a fan of getting something for him, which I still think is possible.
In order to ridicule Jarrod's contract, people have been using comps. I haven't seen too many that are either accurate, (Randy wolf makes more money than Jarrod) or fair in some other regard. If you bring up say Rich Harden, you have to realize that his is a pre-arby contract and while its a great value when he's healthy it is also common to buy out those years, give the kid some bucks and realize the savings. We'll see if he re-ups for that same discount. My guess is no. Dempster is in the third year of a contract given to him when he was a closer and in that capacity he was overpaid. But yes, this season his value has increased with performance. It isn't as easy as just stating so to replace 180 innings of average pitching for free or huge discount.

Posted by meagain

9:11 AM, Aug 19, 2008

From an essay by Sarah Rosenberg:

A leading researcher on humiliation, Dr. Evelin Lindner, defines humiliation as "the enforced lowering of a person or group, a process of subjugation that damages or strips away their pride, honor or dignity."[2] Further, humiliation means to be placed, against ones will, in a situation where one is made to feel inferior. "One of the defining characteristics of humiliation as a process is that the victim is forced into passivity, acted upon, made helpless."[3] Johan Galtung, a leading practitioner, agrees with Lindner that the infliction of humiliation is a profoundly violent psychological act that leaves the victim with a deep wound to the psyche.[4]

***

Ouch. I'm beginning to understand where all the sound and fury on this blog comes from.

Feliiiiixxx!!!

Posted by byebye

9:17 AM, Aug 19, 2008

The ineptitude is excrutiating.

byebye

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