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Geoff Baker covers the Mariners for The Seattle Times. He provides daily coverage of the team throughout spring training, and during the season.

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August 15, 2008 9:06 PM

Silva medal

Posted by Larry Stone

Not much good can be said about this game. Much of the talk afterward was about Carlos Silva's continuing struggles. He is now 0-5, 8.03 in his last eight starts (40.1 ip, 36 er, 61 hits, five homers, .351 opponents average). He is a sinkerball pitcher who is too often throwing the ball thigh high, as Jim Riggleman put it. I'm no Leo Mazzone, but that's not good.

Riggleman said that Silva will remain in the rotation for now. He said that he throws great bullpen sessions between starts, and before starts. Something just happens when he gets in the game. Again, I'll go out on a limb and say, not good.

What did Silva say about it all? Nothing. He declined to comment. He seemed to be upset about the way his outburst last week was portrayed, but I'm not quite sure what that's about. No question he's highly frustrated, and it might have been a smart thing to clam up.

Riggleman said that he argued Ichiro's non-catch mainly because Ichiro was so upset, and that rarely happens. He admitted that he had a bad angle from the dugout and was "arguing blind,'' in his words. The ejection was because "you argue a point enough, they're not going to continue to listen."

Beltre and Lopez were taken out to save their legs on the unforgiving Metrodome turf, nothing else. Beltre is apparently having some leg problems, and may DH Saturday or Sunday.

Liriano, BTW, was quite impressive -- not as overpowering, perhaps, as in 2006, but his changeup was outstanding. He's a huge weapon for the Twins to catch the White Sox. All they need is Jarrod Washburn, and the division is theirs.

See you tomorrow.

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Posted by CaptainPoopy

9:22 PM, Aug 15, 2008

Silva had a great taste of humble pie, I take it. Good for him!

Posted by The Ancient Mariner

9:24 PM, Aug 15, 2008

Put Silva on the DL until he loses 100 lbs. then maybe he can get the ball down, remember he has a gigantic stomach to fold with each pitch.

If Washburn was what they needed, then why didn't they meet the M's demands?

Posted by FukodomeFan

9:26 PM, Aug 15, 2008

Its gotten to the point where i enjoy seeing some of these players fail.. that's never something u want to do when u root for a team.. but im at that point..

Way to be accountable Silva... dont talk to the media and pout about your comments being taken out of context..

Big Loser

Posted by scottM

9:28 PM, Aug 15, 2008

Silva Medal

"All they need is Jarrod Washburn, and the division is theirs."

Careful, Mr. Stone, or they might give you a blog of your own.

Posted by The Ancient Mariner

9:30 PM, Aug 15, 2008

And while Silva is on the DL, fine him for everyday for each pound over two hundred. Lets say $1,000 per pound per day, maybe that will cut down on either his bulk or his wallet.

Posted by Patrick F.

9:30 PM, Aug 15, 2008

He definitely shouldn't be calling anybody else out, when he stinks this bad. It's usually better to lead by example, but not in Silva's case.

Posted by no poop

9:33 PM, Aug 15, 2008

Silva stinks, has he been visiting Captain Poopy's poop deck?

Posted by David_H12

9:39 PM, Aug 15, 2008

Hey geoff what do u think about the mariners potentially picking up vernon Wells???

Posted by el búfalo chief

9:41 PM, Aug 15, 2008

Alguien me dirá: ¿Cómo se agarra a sí mismo por el cuello y tirar uno mismo contra la pared?
Gracias: El jefe de Bufalo

Posted by BMSOlympia

9:43 PM, Aug 15, 2008

So, if Batista is worth 8 million/per, Washburn 10 million/per, and Silva 12 million/per... how much is Felix worth?
No wonder he's ignored our attempts to sign him to an extension... what we are probably offering him is an insult.

Posted by Hollywood Die Hard

9:45 PM, Aug 15, 2008

I think the Mariners are providing a valuable service: keeping the central division interesting. And if they can unload Wash to his Dream Job, well, why not?

Hey, Richie is available for work - and so is Hargrove! Apparently his fire is back. I can't believe the Yankees let Richie go, he was hitting .250. I find that to be a remarkable ba next to his name. The Yankees can be so demanding.

No one ever looks good playing at the Metrodome, because of that terrible lighting, but I felt like some of our guys could have used SOMETHING, like a cup of coffee. They look so hang dog and broken hearted. Buck up, fellas! It is so much better than working at Sears.

Posted by The Ancient Mariner

9:53 PM, Aug 15, 2008

Hollywood -

Just how are the M's going to unload Washburn to the Twins now? He can't be offered on waivers again until after the August 31st deadline for playoff eligibility. Not very likely he get his dream job this year and the M's probably will find no suitors for his $10 million salary during the off season. Look for him to relapse into the pitcher he has always been - mediocre at best. Thanks Bonehead Bill and Lee Pelekoudas.

Posted by Silva Be Quiet!!!!!

10:06 PM, Aug 15, 2008

Silva needs to stop talking and get in shape. He claims he cares but why doesn't he get his body in the condition it needs to be in.

He brags that he's ready to go every 5th day, wow, impressive feat. Why now be ready 7 days a week.

Tonight should shut him up for a while.

Posted by Hollywood Die Hard

10:16 PM, Aug 15, 2008

Indeed, what I should have said was:

"If they can unload Wash to his Dream Job, well, why not? I would have, alas."

I just didn't complete my thought, sloppy of me.

Wash is a functional pitcher who needs some help, you know, like people playing a little d and occasionally hitting the ball. He isn't all that, and I am not going to take this opportunity to say otherwise, so relax. If your team has a great record and you could absorb some of his wiffleballs, he looks just fine.

Everything is just fine.

I like that Silva likes to holler about people, that is also fine. And if I were Silva I would start doing some sit-ups. All about your core, baby!

Posted by scrapiron

10:57 PM, Aug 15, 2008

Ryan Feirabend had a poor outing yesterday at Tacoma, and Morrow is struggling trying to adjust as a starter. Quite frankly, there is no one in AAA to push SIlva out of the rotation, so you've got to hope that Stottlemyre can help Carlos find his groove.

On the other hand, I saw Strasburg pitch in the Olympics and he looked dominant. The team with the worst record this year gets him. He looks like a franchise player. If the M's finish last, they couple have a dominant 1-2 punch with Strasburg and Felix.

Posted by A Parent

11:16 PM, Aug 15, 2008

Hey, at least Silva walks the walk!!!!!!

He's upset about guys trying to put up good stats, and he's doing everything he can to make sure he has some of the worst stats possible!!!!

Posted by ethan

Posted by scrapiron

11:34 PM, Aug 15, 2008

From the ex-Mariners news file:

Richie Sexson was released by the Yankees. Could this be the end of his career?

Mike Hargrove said he wants to manage again, as he has re-found his passion for the game. Would anyone ever take a chance on a manager that quit on his team in mid-season? What are the guarantees that he wouldn't do it again?

Posted by excel

11:34 PM, Aug 15, 2008

Just think if both managers this year had this kind of accountability in below article? Would it have solved all our problems? No. But it sure would have resulted in quite a few more wins. Once you have players who get taken out for 1/2 a game and the manager is to politically correct to be a MANAGER and come right out and say Lopez has been playing at 50% as has Yuni and a few others that breeds what has become Mariner baseball! They got away with it before and now here. When it's contract time they shape up a bit. This has got to change and it's quite obvious Riggleman isn't man enough to manage!

Manager Joe Maddon took the extraordinary — and, for Upton, extremely embarrassing — step of waiting until Upton took his position in centerfield in the bottom of the sixth inning to pull him from the game. He said Upton will be benched again tonight and is considering additional disciplinary action.

"I can't make it any more plain, simple, obvious, black and white," Maddon said. "There are no gray areas. I can't have Aki (Iwamura) run like he is and (Carlos) Pena and Cliff (Floyd), who has two bad knees, etc., and permit that. I can't permit it."

Posted by Faceplant

12:54 AM, Aug 16, 2008

any chance beltre is cut this off season

Posted by the ancient mariner

5:44 AM, Aug 16, 2008

Another great free agent signing from Conehead Bavasi. And we have three more years to watch Silva pitch.

Posted by Jimbo

6:32 AM, Aug 16, 2008

How's that mechanical adjustment working out?

Posted by whatever

7:23 AM, Aug 16, 2008

And the beat goes on....

Moyer wins for Philly again yesterday
Linsecum goes Sunday...only Webb is better in the NL
Meche was outstanding yesterday


Bedard is still on the DL
Silva is producing what he always surprises
The rest of the Mariner made millionaire starters nobody wants

So what else is new. The Mariners need new ownership. Maybe if they move to OK City, we can get an expansion team.

Posted by Faceplant

7:33 AM, Aug 16, 2008

And the 12:54 post isn't from me either. Remind me why you can't just ban people who post under other peoples names?

Posted by Faceplant

7:36 AM, Aug 16, 2008

I saw Moyer pitch yesterday. That guy is a freak of nature. It was fun. Vintage Jamie.

I'm in San Diego for a few days. Heading to the Padre's game tonight. I'll report back on how Petco compares to Safeco.

Posted by Faceplant

7:42 AM, Aug 16, 2008

"How's that mechanical adjustment working out?"

Exactly what I was thinking. I remember when the "statheads" were mocked for pointing out that Silva's mechanical adjustment that supposedly helped him get more sink on the ball, didn't actually help him get any more sink on the ball.

This is yet another good example of why when a pitcher points to some minor mechanical adjustment that suddenly turned them into an effective pitcher, you probably shouldn't listen to them.

Posted by Burning Bush

7:57 AM, Aug 16, 2008

Hello Seattle i was just checking in to see how the Ms fans were taking there front office choices. I am from Minnesota and i read something that might make you guys smile. I picked you guys to win out there sorry about the season but there is next year right. Anyway check out this story... its satire but really funny i think you guys will enjoy it.

Posted by Samuel Taylor Coleridge

8:36 AM, Aug 16, 2008

The post at 5:44 AM is not The Ancient Mariner, but and impostor.

Posted by tugboatcritic

9:24 AM, Aug 16, 2008

OK so now that the dust has settled a bit over the Washburn scenario, it appears that some misinformation has circulated locally contributing heavily to the hysteria this week.

First, we now find that no significant players currently on the Twins roster were really offered in return. This should end the parade of folks skewering the M's in that regard. Though even if it had been true about Bonser, he sucks, and at best is projectible due to velocity. He in no way has proven to be the equal of Washburn at this point.

Second, the M's feel (rightfully) that Washburn has value, and will demand some in return. It is difficult to replace his durability and production without getting into another long-term contract. They are not up against the wall as far as eating the salary, so there was little pressure to dump him both at the deadline and this month. The way they see it, they can trade him this winter or at worst have a #3/#4 guy on a one-year contract next season. If he is overpaid

Third, their bet is that the market will expand over the winter. The trade may need to grow in size a bit to get some more interest but they think that they can make a deal. Nothing wrong with that. The claim that no one in baseball thinks Washburn has any value has already been proven to be false. The amount of garbage tossed around as a result of this misstatement is amazing.

Fourth, and I think most important. According to Jason Churchill at Prospect Insider, the Twins NEVER offered to take on his salary. They wanted the rest of this year paid plus some 40% of next year eaten by the M's. So again, a bit of truth-stretching has been employed to cast the M's in the worst possible light. This changes the landscape some, no? Even if we go along with the assumption (crapshoot as it is) that the M's could match his value for let's say half of his money, they still would be on the hook for his full salary. Not a net gain and one would have to embrace the unknown.

I realize that the reaction to this scenario might be that they could have dumped his contract on the Twins. This is true, but, they never put him out on waivers to accomplish this. He is essentially on a one year contract at this point. He has been consistent, if somewhat less than dominant. He hasn't been an injury concern. If he is overpaid, perhaps by 2mil. or so, that certainly can't be a budget buster on a team that pays a singles hitter what 19mil?

Typical massive overreaction by the local blog community.

Posted by thewyrm

9:40 AM, Aug 16, 2008

You miss the point tugboat. Minnesota claimed him. They have no say in the matter, the M's could have just said "He's yours" and bam, they take on his salary.

Posted by tugboatcritic

9:49 AM, Aug 16, 2008

thewyrm- I think that you might have missed the M's point. As stated before, they didn't put him on waivers with the intent of dumping him or his salary. They wanted (rightfully) return. My belief is that renders the rest of the teeth gnashing to be misguided. Its arguing a scenario that was never intended by the club. I happen to agree with their stance and haven't seen much to change my mind. At least what I have mined out in the midst of the name-calling and outright misstatements.

Posted by Faceplant

10:16 AM, Aug 16, 2008

"I happen to agree with their stance and haven't seen much to change my mind."

Except for maybe the fact that only the Mariners seem to think Jarrod Washburn is worth giving up top talent for. Not one other team thinks Jarrod Washburn is worth giving up ANY kind of real talent for.

Posted by travis

10:26 AM, Aug 16, 2008

Jarrod had a stretch that made me think it finally clicked for him, he discovered the splitter and looks to be jamie moyer 2.0 . we screwed up a few years ago when we thought moyer was done, it would be a fatal mistake to assume as much with Wash

Posted by tugboatcritic

10:31 AM, Aug 16, 2008

The M's haven't indicated any demand for what kind of talent that they want in return. No confirmation of any player in return has been provided. Only the conjecture that is often derided as rumor mongering by local opnion makers. Funny how when it casts the M's in a negative light, these rumors are taken on face-value.

Using that same rumor-mill, there have been at least 5 teams interested in acquiring Washburn, so your statement that no one will offer anything at all has already been proven false. The M's have chosen to wait the market out, and maximize potential return on a property that both rich and poor teams have sought out. And both "dumb big spending old schoolers" and "smartly run neo-analytical clubs" have had real interest. To me that qualifies as perceived value in Jarrod Washburn, contrary to local opinion, and your statements.

Posted by scottM

10:58 AM, Aug 16, 2008

good posts Tugboat. I'm not a big Washburn fan, but he is more of an asset than a liability (unlike Sexson and Vidro). Move him to bring player value back to the M's whether now, in the offseason, or at the '09 trade deadline. Bavasi was routinely skewered for being trigger happy in the trade market. Pelekoudas is being skewered by many of these same fans for not being trigger happy.

Posted by Faceplant

11:05 AM, Aug 16, 2008

Wash can probably be traded for a player like miguel cabrera or david wright in the off season...

Posted by Chuck

11:20 AM, Aug 16, 2008

I recall the Yankees were trying to take Washburn off our hands--but would not give up Cabrera. Just read that Cabrera is in a slump and sent to the minors. Yeah and I agree with all the other posters about Silva: 1) People in glass houses should not throw stones; and b) His pitching mechanics would probably improve if he improved his mechanics of pushing himself away from the dinner table. On another subject--whatever happened to all those miracles Stottlemeyer was supposed to perform with our pitchers? And finally, those damn Nationals lost again--and we keep losing, but don't make up ground to get that wunderkid pitcher in the 2009 draft.

Posted by Gone

11:27 AM, Aug 16, 2008

As if we needed any more proof, Silva just gave us greater confirmation of this teams utter demise with his failed attempt to show the Mariners made the right move in signing him for mega-bucks.

Last night was one more indictment on Mariners management and their acquisitions over the past five years: from Sexon and Beltre, the presumptive saviors of the Mariners, to Silva, Bedard and Wilkerson, plus the inexplicable signing of Jojihma to a mega contract, the formula that would put us back into the playoffs. What a joke. How could they be so completely utterly wrong. What an absolute mega-colossal-embarrassing, all-time disaster this team's management has become!! Can it get any worse? Unless there is a complete revolution starting at the top, because they have shown themselves utterly useless, this team has no future. Sorry, I'm gone.

Posted by Eyes on the Prize

11:27 AM, Aug 16, 2008

Keep Washburn, the M's need to keep their eyes on the prize - Strasburg - in '09. With Washington leading by 2 1/2 games, there is need for every loser possible or else the M's throw away this wonderful opportunity and finish second worst, which is not good enough. We need Washburn to pitch like he did in April, May and early June, soon enough he wiil revert to the looser he is. So the M;s need to lose by a natural outcome all that they can, its not worth being it to be second worst.

Posted by AKMarinersFan

11:33 AM, Aug 16, 2008

Geoff - where did your love for Silva go? You flip flop more than any sports writer I have ever seen.

Posted by Eyes on the Prize

11:36 AM, Aug 16, 2008

Trade Silva for Strasburg, ride el buffafo for every loss possible and when you win the Strasburg lottery then DFA the buffalo - a good trade if you ask me.

Posted by ricofoy

11:39 AM, Aug 16, 2008

By the time Felix is a free agent, he'll be looking at 30 million a year. If this Mariner FO had even the slightest bit of baseball acumen, and we all know they have none, they would have bought out a couple years of his free agency long ago. But as long as the 2 Stooges are at the helm, we're destined to be among the dregs of the league. Actually, I guess they are back to being the 3 Stooges. Pelokoudas makes a fine stooge. Kind of like when Shemp replaced Curly. Not quite the same but close enough.

Posted by Eyes on the Prize

11:45 AM, Aug 16, 2008

Put the buffalo on a four day rotation., we need every loss we can get.

You can disguise the tanking with the notion that he needs as much work as possible to get his sinker working.

Posted by davis

12:06 PM, Aug 16, 2008

Geoff will LOVE silva again when he gives him a juicy quote. On field performance/character be damned, Geoff only likes players who give media friendly sound bits. His hate for ichiro, bedard and felix shows this.

Posted by Will

12:13 PM, Aug 16, 2008

Yeah, Silva has good bullpen sessions, he just can't get it done in the game! White line fever! He needs to execute! The talent's there!

Blah blah blah. All excuses for Silva being a terrible pitcher.

Posted by ragarm

12:13 PM, Aug 16, 2008

Poor M's. Poor fans. Poor bloggers. Down on your luck. Where will lit end? It won't while the jokers in the FO are in charge.

Posted by Clivesl

12:22 PM, Aug 16, 2008


Posted by eyes on the Prize

12:23 PM, Aug 16, 2008


Has a $12 million pitcher ever lost 20 games?

If not, lets get it for the buffalo, we need every loss we can get, second worst is unacceptable.

Posted by Faceplant

4:00 PM, Aug 16, 2008

" Move him to bring player value back to the M's whether now, in the offseason, or at the '09 trade deadline."

Here's the problem. You aren't going to get a player of value back when not one single team thinks Jarrod Washburn is worth one. That's reality. And this is at a point when his value is at it's highest.

Posted by tugboatcritic

4:29 PM, Aug 16, 2008

Faceplant-please show me the evidence that you can lean on for the claim that Washburn wont bring back any player of any value from any club. Sounds to me like you are falling into the local grouphink trap. The M's can still salary dump him in the off season.

An example of group think: Randy Wolf could have been had for 4.75 mil. and puts of comparable #'s to Washburn. Therefore M's=stupid. Problem: Randy Wolf is on pace to make more than 10mil. this year, which I believe is higher than Washburn. Doesn't exactly fit the "freely available" bill. Kyle Lohse has had a pretty good year in St. Louis, and will make a little over half of Jarrods' money. Problem: As long as we are throwing around nobody in baseball claims, nobody in baseball wanted him, he has been a horrendus under-acheiver who is known to be an attitude problem. Hating on the M's for passing a guy up whom nobody locally suggested we get, is classic hindsight analysis. I guess that also pokes some holes in the claim that pitching coaches don't make any difference. Dave Duncan can point to quite a few reclamation projects that dispute this.

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