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Geoff Baker covers the Mariners for The Seattle Times. He provides daily coverage of the team throughout spring training, and during the season.

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August 9, 2008 11:55 PM

"A total team letdown."

Posted by Tom Wyrwich

Before I head out after that 4 hour and 26 minute marathon, here's some tidbits from Jim Riggleman after the game.

"There was some ugly things, and there was some great things.

"It was a total team letdown, starting with myself right on down ... We all had a real direct hand in that loss."

On Bloomquist:

"Willie's in bad shape. Willie's hurting. He really pulled it good."

On RRS in the sixth:
"I probably should have gotten him out of there a hitter or two before."

And on RRS overall:
"He made some great pitches, he was facing a tough lineup and did a good job. We just couldn’t make some plays for him."

On Beltre's double play:
"Any pitch hit in the infield is going to be a double play. He hit it hard. He squared it up and hit it good. Adrian Beltre can do no wrong in my eyes. He's just the ultimate professional."

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Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

12:04 AM, Aug 10, 2008

Adrian Beltre can do no wrong in my eyes. He's just the ultimate professional."

BrianL are you Riggleman? LOL!

Really, take a deep breath and have a good night sleep. You to Geoff.

Posted by BrianL

12:05 AM, Aug 10, 2008

Resin isn't Cheating - If I'm Riggleman, surely you're McLaren.

Posted by ethan

12:42 AM, Aug 10, 2008

On Beltre's double play:
"Just another example of brain-dead Caribbean hitters hacking at slop nightly."

Posted by BrettJMiller

1:43 AM, Aug 10, 2008

I love that people are dumb enough to think Adrian Beltre, Ichiro, Clement, and Bedard are problems with this team when Raul Ibanez plays defense, Yuniesky Betancourt plays ever, Jarrod Washburn is your third best starter, Miguel Batista is on your roster, Carlos Silva get starts while making $48 million, Jose Lopez plays defense, Bryan LaHair is an upgrade over your starting 1B, Miguel Cairo gets over 100 ABs, Kenji Johjima receives at bats ever, and Willie Bloomquist leads the team in OBP.

I love that people want to criticize good players when they have no understanding of how to evaluate a player's true abilities. You'd think criticizing players who suck would be a better idea.

Anyone who thinks Beltre is a problem should just give up on the idea of being an analyst forever.

Posted by Mariner John

2:11 AM, Aug 10, 2008

This isn't really related to this thread but why is the prevailing thought on this forum that Ichiro, Bedard and Beltre are lazy/selfish? Ichiro is really good and is probably the hardest worker on the team. Because he doesn't want to give the cliched answers to the media, he gets the ire of the fans and journalists?
Same with Bedard. Why does him not wanting to hurt the team by pitching hurt, unlike Batista, who has done so well while hurt, caused him to be so hated? He goes 100 pitches, just like Washburn and virtually every starter. When he is injured, he doesn't pitch. Pitching injured when it's obviously hurting your performance doesn't help the team. I think the root of this is also his shyness/lack of interest in the media.
Beltre gets lumped in with Vidro and Sexson for not taking extra batting practice or whatever. Does anyone else remember that he has an injured wrist? It hasn't hurt him too much in games but why take the risk of extra batting practice when you're already injured? It seem like the targets of the community, for the most part, are the few people who actually help the team do well.

Posted by Mariner John

2:13 AM, Aug 10, 2008

Looks like Brett beat me to it. Damn. I should really look at all the posts before posting.

Also, really, brain-dead Caribbean hackers? Are you working for San Francisco sports radio? Beltre is one of the only guys who can actually HIT bad pitches. He's had two home runs that are examples of that.

Posted by eastcoast

4:29 AM, Aug 10, 2008

Worse loss of the yr for the M's. 13 for 29 with no RISP (1hr, 6 2B's), but 4 for 19 (3 1B and 1 2B) with RISP. No way they should have lost this game.

And I have to comment on the line-up usage. I've said before I don't like the M's PH for Reed as soon as a lefty makes an appearance. Last night, it was in the seventh. Then PR for Clement and LaHair. So, here come exttra innings, and we're trying to win games with Cairo, Bloomie, and Burke. Didn't we learn from the first 100 games that this combo doesn't win games??

Posted by Glenn

4:42 AM, Aug 10, 2008

I am becoming a LaHair fan. He is quite an improvement over Sexton this year. I thought that Richie's defense was top notch, but LaHair is also proving to be very good on defense, even if he muffed one up tonight.
I hope that LaHair will have a good chance next to make this team. He just needs the bats at MLB to get into the grove, and start launching some HRs. Clearly he should have been brought up on June 1st instead of all of us learning to hate Sexton.

Posted by Ziasudra

6:51 AM, Aug 10, 2008

I felt sorry for RSS - he pitched his heart out. Unlike some infielders. Betancourt on Thursday, Lopez last night. The key to the game was the fifth inning, when Lopez tried to make a fancy
DP, instead of making a routine DP. There were no runs scored, BUT IT COST RSS 16 ADDITIONAL PITCHES to get out of the 5th. So, in the 6th, he's up over 100, instead of around 85 and stronger. Then in the 6th, Lopez non-chalants two ground balls, and a (very lazy) tag at 2nd, and we're down two. I stopped watching, and went to bed. I'd start Cairo at 2nd today (too bad Bloomie is hurt). Actually, I'd start Hulett at 2nd today.
Oh, yes - LaHair's bat is a huge improvement over Sexson, but he needs work at first base.
I think my brainstorm of two months ago stands: put Raul at 1st, put Lopez in LF. Fewer ground balls to confuse him.

Posted by huskiefan@aol.com

8:07 AM, Aug 10, 2008

Putz has gone the way of Shaun Alexander. Get him outta here........

Posted by HELP!

8:14 AM, Aug 10, 2008

WE NEED A REAL MIDDLE INFIELD. LOPEZ HAS THE RANGLE OF A CARLOS SILVA PITCH AND YUNI IS A COMPLETE TARD!

AT LEAST LOPEZ CAN HIT. HOW CAN YUNI BE THE WORST BUNTER ON THE TEAM (INCLUDING THE PITCHERS?!)

Posted by Chris from Bothell

8:19 AM, Aug 10, 2008

Ziasudra - Absolutely. I'm stunned that in Riggleman's laundry list, there's zero mention of Lopez botching the double play that should have let RRS leave the game with 6 complete. It goes downhill after that, obviously - Yuni's lazy tag, LaHair's drop, Beltre showing no patience, Ichiro striking out, on and on - but this is really on Jose.

Jose should be benched today. With fat llittle red marks around his neck and a bump on the back of his head, if Carlos is going to back up his rant from the other day.

And did everyone else hear Novice scream and faint last night? ;)

Posted by Pirata Morado

8:41 AM, Aug 10, 2008

I can't believe why do people still defend Beltre! I showed at Mariner Central that the best clutch hitters in history have always moves their teams into significance (Gwynn in 1984, Pujols 2006, Bonds in 1991, Clark in 1989, etc.).

http://www.marinercentral.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1142

One of our worst seasons ever gets summarized by the awful performance by Beltre. No wonder we haven't made the playoffs in 7 years, and some of our fans still defend such a lousy performance. All he had to do was to lift the ball to the outfield, anywhere, and he failed. Pathetic!

Posted by scottM

8:46 AM, Aug 10, 2008

"And did everyone else hear Novice scream and faint last night?"

Sure, and Lopez was thinking that this is the sort of bad thing that happens when you run too fast in baseball––you might make get to base, get to the ball, or make the tag, but...

...while Carlos screams, Riggles offers feint praise.

No more Jimeñez.

Posted by Sounders

9:54 AM, Aug 10, 2008

The Beltre Bandwagon is Officially 'In The Ditch.'

That guy was throwing him the same pitch over and over and if he can't make the adjustment to lift a low inside pitch to the outfield then...

It's not all him. This team has the worst fundamentals of any team I can remember seeing.

Keep the kids minus Yuni and dump the rest. And the coaches, and most importantly the FO.

Posted by Chris from Bothell

9:55 AM, Aug 10, 2008

Pirata - There's no such thing as clutch hitting.

Posted by Sounders

9:59 AM, Aug 10, 2008

If the FO had a clue they would resign. Short of that, the rest of the season should have one and only one goal. (which they finally may have started, by playing the kids) Showing possible GM;s what they will have to work with.

Unfortunately I still think Howie and Chuckie's presence is going to rule out any of the serious contenders

Posted by meagain

9:59 AM, Aug 10, 2008

Watching the game from a decent seat last night, it appeared to me that the game was lost by the middle infielders.

It was painful to watch Willie go down. He stretched his last step--saving an out--a little too far. After watching Raul hobble around left last year, we know it's not easy to come back from a hamstring injury. I wish Willie a speedy recovery.

Posted by Pirata Morado

10:41 AM, Aug 10, 2008

"There's no such thing as clutch hitting."

Says who? Even Bill James himself has changed his mind recently!

Well, evidently, for Adrian Beltre there is no such thing as clutch hitting.

Posted by Full Count

11:06 AM, Aug 10, 2008

To bad about Willie he always seems to go all out unlike some players with even more skills.

Take care Willie.

Posted by meagain

11:17 AM, Aug 10, 2008

Over on TNT, a writer suggests Willie may have a heel injury (already injured, worsened last night) instead of a hamstring problem. Whatever it is, he was setting himself up nicely for free agency; now this. Good luck to him. He had the opposite last night.

Posted by wag the dog

11:20 AM, Aug 10, 2008

Loses like this suck to watch, but hopefully these games help some of the young guys mature. In the years to come they'll be better for having lost these kinds of games now. It's a lost season anyway. The more teaching moments, the better.

Posted by Chris from Bothell

11:24 AM, Aug 10, 2008

pirato - The Book: Playing the Percentages in Baseball. They did a study of hitters over several years ('99 - '03 or '04?) and found that it was just as advantageous to have a good overall hitter in a 'clutch' situation, as it was to have a so-called 'clutch' hitter.

Posted by Tommy

11:25 AM, Aug 10, 2008

I want beltre off the team NOW for costing us that game yesterday. Seriously, just get him away. biggest free agent bust in seattle sports history.

Posted by Chris from Bothell

11:27 AM, Aug 10, 2008

scottM - yeah, WFB's injury is definitely a warning. So is Adrian hitting with a wrist injury and Miguel pitching through back problems. Funny how it seems like the 110% effort guys are the ones who are also a) injured more and b) least effective on the team...

Posted by scottM

12:02 PM, Aug 10, 2008

Riggleman said that he should have pulled RRS sooner. Either that or he SHOULD have let RRS clean up his own mess.

Riggleman SHOULD have pulled Jimeñez after the first hit the reliever gave up.

He SHOULD have yanked Lopez and put Cairo at second right after Lopez failed to aggressively tag the runner.

Riggleman is right that guys like Silva shouldn't be calling people out by using the media. Riggleman SHOULD be calling players out by yanking them and sitting them for substandard effort.

It seemed that there was a new energy being exhibited on this team since Riggleman took over. Silva's comments made me doubt that. How Riggleman establishes control and expectation right now will speak volumes about the extent to which this team needs to be bolstered in the off-season or blown up.

Beltre's at-bat was not the reason the M's lost. ANY 12 pitch at-bat is a solid, competitive at-bat. AB's long RF fly ball was only foul by a couple of feet. That would have won the game for the M's, but didn't.

This loss belongs to Jimeñez and Lopez.

Posted by Pirata Morado

12:07 PM, Aug 10, 2008

It's not Jimeñez! Where do you see the "ñ".

Repeat after me: Ibañez is with an "ñ", Jimenez is with an "n".

Yes, seems like Beltre is always "unlucky" in the clutch!

Posted by Faceplant

12:13 PM, Aug 10, 2008

beltree is among the worst 3b in the league, the day he is off our team we are instantly better.

Posted by Nat

12:21 PM, Aug 10, 2008

I was glad to hear Riggleman respond to Silva's remarks as he did. Giving Silva's comments any emphasis was good for a day's worth of comments on this blog and nothing more.

Posted by scottM

1:03 PM, Aug 10, 2008

OMG, you're right. It's not Jimeñez. It's Jiménez.

My bad. High School español was a LONG time ago.

Posted by Idaho Invader

1:13 PM, Aug 10, 2008

Seriously guys...

Do we honestly need MORE evidence that Yuni can't really be part of any intelligent rebuilding plan beginning next year?

Notice I said "intelligent" LOL

Posted by Mariuner John

1:41 PM, Aug 10, 2008

"Posted by Faceplant

12:13 PM, Aug 10, 2008

beltree is among the worst 3b in the league, the day he is off our team we are instantly better.
"

How do people still think this?

Posted by Sounders

2:30 PM, Aug 10, 2008

I think Beltre stinks cuz he's an easy out. He's okay defensively, but offensively he gets his numbers against idiot pitchers who don't know that there is a simple way to get him out.

Posted by Sounders

2:41 PM, Aug 10, 2008

Riggleman should have pulled RRS? He should have pulled the entire team after the first pitch.

Go GOOF

Posted by Gary W

3:17 PM, Aug 10, 2008

Jose Lopez lost us the game last night in the missed force out at 2b with teh score at 5-2 and two other mental misses. Beltre contributed just fine, and Blue errored on the call at first on his double play. And Blue knew it...when Beltre slammed his helmut on the ground, Blue didn't toss him but told him to pick it up. Beltre simply glared at him and Coach Rodriguez picked the helmut up.

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