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Geoff Baker covers the Mariners for The Seattle Times. He provides daily coverage of the team throughout spring training, and during the season.

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August 4, 2008 6:28 PM

Mariners vs. Twins, Game thread, 8-4

Posted by Larry Stone

So it's Aug. 4, and the Mariners are finally playing the Twins for the first time this year. That's some bizarre scheduling. They play them nine times in the next three weeks, so they'll make up for lost time.

The fact that the Twins come to Safeco in first place in the AL Central is a testament to their organization. After losing Johan Santana and Torii Hunter (not to mention Carlos Silva -- insert your own joke), most people expected the Twins to be a non-factor. I can't remember where I picked them, but it sure wasn't for first or second. But they have developed a pretty good young rotation, one that figures to be much better if Francisco Liriano continues to pitch as well as he did yesterday. They have two superstars to build around in Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau, a great closer in Joe Nathan, and a lot of players who -- some of you are going to hate this expression, but I really think it's apt with the Twins -- know how to win.

Jim Riggleman was talking before the game about the "Twins way," and I think there's somthing to that. The current manager, Ron Gardenhire, learned under Tom Kelly, who was a brilliant teacher of fundamentals. Kelly won two World Series in five years before hitting lean times. Gardenhire told me today that he runs his team exactly the way Kelly used to, stressing fundamentals and effort and moving runners up and all those things that every team gives lip service to, but the Twins seem to be able to pull off. (And yes, they've had some great players, too. I recognize that). Whatever they're doing -- and give I give a lot of credit to frmer GM Terry Ryan, who retired after last year, and a was a master at drafting and acquiring young talent) -- they've been remarkably successful. This is Gardenhire's seventh season at the helm; he has four division titles in the previous six years, and could add another one this year. The Twins are doing something right.

Meanwhile, the Mariners decided to change Erik Bedard's throwing schedule, not because there's something wrong with his shoulder after 30 tosses yesterday. It's more because there wasn't. Bedard didn't throw today, as originally planned. Instead of going two days throwing, one day off, the Mariners switched to an every other day schedule this week (Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday) and will re-evaluate after he throws Saturday.

"He's feeling so good, we don't want to increase the intensity,'' Mariners trainer Rick Griffin said. "We don't want to push it too hard and have it flare up again.''



Denard Span RF

Nick Punto 2B

Joe Mauer C

Justin Morneau 1B

Jason Kubel DH

Delmon Young LF

Brian Buscher 3B

Brendan Harris SS

Carlos Gomez CF

Glen Perkins P


Ichiro RF

Willie Bloomquist CF

Raul Ibanez LF

Adrian Beltre 3B

Jose Lopez 2B

Jose Vidro DH

Bryan LaHair 1B

Kenji Johjima C

Yuniesky Betancourt SS

MIguel Batista P

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Posted by mlb2131

6:56 PM, Aug 04, 2008

why is Vidro still DH'ing and Clement sitting against lefties? Is Vidro's option getting close to vesting?

Posted by oh the humanity!

7:06 PM, Aug 04, 2008

just what I was thinking mlb2131....idiots. What's Terry Ryan up to these days?

Posted by Batter Up!!!

7:07 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Love you Larry but you do have to man up and ask why! Why is Vidro @ DH & why is Batista not in in the bullpen. Why, why, why....

This is an insult to the fans of Seattle.

Posted by JohnBoy

7:11 PM, Aug 04, 2008

And why oh why must we continue to see Wiliie Bloomquist in the OF?????

Posted by Brett in Bonney Lake

7:12 PM, Aug 04, 2008


Posted by zDawg

7:13 PM, Aug 04, 2008

There is no reason to play Vidro.

All it does is piss off the dedicated fans who know different players will lead the turnaround, and it is time to see if they exist now, not next year.

RRS starting
Morrow starting
Tug Hulett

All of these guys should be playing fulltime or close to it.

It is a travesty our Front Office and Management is so out of it.

Posted by Keeping My Money In My Pocket

7:16 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Vidro again?!?!? What are they doing....give someone that will be around long term a chance to do something......I'm so sick of this garbage. Oh, yeah FO says "wait till August, the offseason, maybe when he*l freezes over, you'll see, we'll make good" I'm to the point that I highly doubt it.....I won't go to any more games this year, won't buy any tickets before next season, and I've even stopped watching any TV broadcasts this year......This sucks....HARD!

BTW, our good buddy J Guillen keeps getting on base.

Posted by RagArm

7:18 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Holy living smoked fish! This lineup is unbelievable. I echo what my fellow bloggers are saying. Why is this happening to us. Why haven't Batista and Vidro been placed in a back corner and forgotten. We have a utility man playing every game.

It is an insult to the dedicated fan. They win one out of three from a fellow cellar dweller and the FO is sure we have winning players and nothing needs changing.

I continue to not watch, listen or attend. Must I stop reading next just to stay sane?

Posted by not you

7:27 PM, Aug 04, 2008

RagArm, you are not a blogger - you comment on a blog. If you stopped watching, Why do you continue to read and comment on a team that you don't care about?

Posted by chris d

7:27 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Geoff, the USSMariner requested the local media to ask Riggleman and GM why the hell is Vidro still in the lineup. The other teams that are out of the race have already expunged their unnecessary veterans in lieu of young players being given a chance to play and get experience.

Will you please pose this question to the coach and GM. Note that almost all of these posts are the same subject?

Posted by Bums

7:28 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Have to agree with you Larry, the Twins have been successful for the most part over the past 20 years. Especially considering they spend little money and have to groom their talent. Unlike the Mariners who do not know how to scout and groom talent.

As for Bedard, who cares? He doesn't want to be here, so who cares. Just put him on the DL for the rest of the season and trade him in the offseason. I realize it does not help his stock, but at this point they are really only going to get pennies on the dollar compared to what they gave up. As I said, who cares?

I have about had it with this team. Same BS with the same garbage players will occur every season as long as 30k show up to the stadium for "the experience". Time for me to find a new team, one committed to winning, not content with just "competing" or providing a "great fan experience" at the park. Good luck to all you spending your money on this team. I don't know how you do it with the economy these days.

Posted by DownOnStrikes

7:30 PM, Aug 04, 2008

If ownership doesn't have a clue to the pulse of the fan base, it is morbidly comatose.

These players should be sitting until they learn how to produce offensively and defensively:

Jose Vidro
Kenji Johjima
Yuniesky Betancourt
and this pitcher needs a vacation to PangoPango:
Miguel Batistta

I join in the boycott of not watching, attending, or buying team merchandise. We have to do something to force some changes.

Don't you think?

Posted by get real

7:31 PM, Aug 04, 2008

chris d - its not Geoff, its Larry today. If USS Mariner is so high and mighty, why don't they ask the questions themselves? Oh thats right, its not their job to do so. Anyone can make comments from a blog when they're not held accountable for them but if you were a beat writer, would you put your career on the line just to satisfy a couple of bloggers?

Posted by RagArm

7:37 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Hey not you,

I still care. I care enough about Mariners baseball to speak up and take a stand. It seems to me that we are being forced to watch an inferior product and I refuse to do that anymore. If others took this action it would affect the company's bottom line and maybe actual improvements would be made.

Every person who stops going through the turnstile, listening to games on the radio, or watching on television is having an impact by reducing Neilsen Ratings, impacting revenue, and affecting other businesses. When money dries up in a sour economy, management will finally be forced to act.

This is a less than satisfactory team and anyone who sings their praises is singing to the fat lady indeed.

I'll continue to post on this blog and I won't be intimidated to leave just because I don't tow the company line or remain Mr. Positive.

Posted by DownOnStrikes

7:42 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Get real and not you,

you're the same person aren't you. Comments are what make a blog. If people didn't comment and express their passions the blog would be worthless.

Blogs were created so the little voices can be heard collectively.

The voice of this blog is angry, disappointed, upset, disenchanted, and can't understand why the organization won't do a thing to help the situation out, other than the obvious, which has already been done.

Posted by Arm Rag

7:43 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Rag Arm -

If you don't care enough to watch the games, then you have no basis to criticize the team, management, etc. Its a paradox, but there is no substitute for experience and your stand on principle will make no difference.

You probably sneak a few looks at the games, just like a closet smoker. Give it up.

Posted by RagArm

7:46 PM, Aug 04, 2008

chris d

what you asked is a perfectly legitiment question whether asked of Larry or Geoff. I assume Geoff reads this thread and all the others posted in his absence.

We all want to know why Vidro is still in the lineup either DHing with out being able to hit or batting in the cleanup spot with no power in his bat. He is not a defensive player and is not earning his pay!

Posted by chris d

7:47 PM, Aug 04, 2008

get real and Larry, I apologize for getting the blogger wrong. And getreal I don't think UssMariner is in a position to ask questions of coach and GM as the beat writers are after each game. And what does that say about this team and sport if a writer can't ask a simple and obvious question about team policy?

I don't believe Larry would be fearful for losing his job if he asked this question. Larry is this true?

Posted by Scanman

7:49 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Ichiro needs to learn that as a lead off-hitter, his job is to get to 2nd, get in scoring position however he can. A single does us no good unless he gets to 2nd asap. Then on practially any type of contact, with his speed he should advance. Willie puts more pressure on the pitcher than Ichiro, and, heís not as fast.

Posted by chris d

7:50 PM, Aug 04, 2008

And I believe Gm had told fans that Clement and other young players would be getting their playing time when he first came onboard. Clement cannot get his time as long as Vidro is in this lineup. And Wlad should be here as well and any other young and potentially ready AAA players.

Posted by BrianL

7:51 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Scanman - Ichiro has and always been a selective base stealer. If Ichiro thinks he doesn't have a good enough chance to take second, he's not going to make the attempt. What's more valuable, a runner on first, or a runner caught stealing?

Sure, you can send him every time he gets to first, but he'd probably be caught 30 times a season. No player in baseball attempts to steal second every time they get to first.

Posted by RagArm

7:51 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Arm Rag, Get real, and not you,

since you are the same person I should call you some derogatory name as well. Like Vidro. Is that who you really are? Sneaking in to use the laptop between innings to defend yourself?

You have no idea how many games I have watched over the years or what my baseball intelligence is either. So don't be arrogant. This team has had a few proud moments in its history, but you had better consider all the poor seasons that are of the majority.

If you are content to watch poor major league sports continue to watch the Mariners or those Lithian Spittleducks that never win a game.

Posted by Chris from Bothell

7:53 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Bloomquist batting 2nd???

Oh, and #4, #2, #6.

(#s? See my 6:23 PM, Aug 02 entry for explanation.)

Posted by Keeping My Money In My Pocket

7:59 PM, Aug 04, 2008

I think we all need a little diversion from this absolute mess of a team and game for a moment, so I offer an article from a more innocent, yet slightly happier time.

Posted by Tek Jansen

8:01 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Geoff, the "Twins way" would never have included signing Silva and trading the farm for Bedard. The Twins know how to evaluate talent and build a team. The M's do not. "Knowing how to win" is a product a well put together team. The M's front office, from Lincoln to Armstrong to Bavasi to Mac, put together a bad team at the expense of good young, inexpensive players. The M's will "know how to win" when they have a large group of talented players.

Posted by The Ancient Mariner

8:03 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Just as we ask why is Vidro still on this team. we must also ask why is Batista with his 6.39 era still starting for this team. Ryan Feierabend has been having a great year in Tacoma - what not showcase his talent in Seattle? This business of watching Batista, Vidro, Cairo, Silva, Washburn and Johjima is getting old, particularly given that we have some quality talent suitable to replace these geezers. Why not give that talent some experience over the remainder of the season - certainly this season has been finished since April.

When a team is this far out, they characteristically dump overpaid, underachieving veterans. They audition youth and evaluate talent. It an unwritten rule of baseball management.
Do these guys still believe in these losers? Or is it some stubborn delusion or pride based on the salaries involved? They can't seem to admit their and Conehead Bill's mistakes, muchless wrap their minds around the notion of sunk costs. But that is all they have - sunk costs - associated with losers that need not stick around for the ball.

It looks more and more like no one is at the helm for the M's - Pelekoudas has no direction, wiggleworm doesn't want to take a chance as he wants to claim the manager's job. Howie and Chuck are asleep at the tiller, and Pelekoudas doesn't want to rock the boat. So the M's are without a compass and rudderless.

Posted by Batter Up!!!

8:06 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Neither Larry or Geoff's job is contingent on hard questions to Riggleman!

In fact, I suspect both careers would prosper from the hard-nosed stand and Larry could well end up sports editor for the Times.

Man up boys, it is time to ask the tough questions or let Shannon Drayer ask them for you...

Posted by Scanman

8:07 PM, Aug 04, 2008

BrianL. Doing what heís doing isnít working. He is dying on 1st, and not putting any pressure on the pitcher. With the lineups we trot out every night we cant rely on base hits to score runners. We really need to put the game in motion.

Posted by Chopper58

8:14 PM, Aug 04, 2008

3 innings, 4 ER, 82 pitches, half of them strikes, no wonder Batista is a keeper for the Mariners.

Posted by Top pick in 09 draft

8:15 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Another typical M's game - M's have made the Twins pitcher work to the tune of 31 pitches through 3 innings while Batista has thrown 73. Nationals are well on their way to winning their 4th in a row - again coinciding with starting to play young guys after dumping their useless vets. In the meantime, we continue to toss out a lineup with Vidro and Kenji. After tonight, looks like we'll be in the lead for next year's #1 pick.

Posted by BrianL

8:17 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Scanman - We don't have the team to put the game in motion. We are not the Angels or the Twins.

Running at every possible opportunity is a colossally awful baseball strategy.

Posted by The Ancient Mariner

8:24 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Maybe Batista can get his era up over seven, it sure looks like he wants to do it.

Wriggleworm has played his bench more than McLaren and I think this is a good step in the right direction, however, he does not seem to want to make the hard moves necessary to manage the team into the future. It seems that he wants to play it close to the vest, conservative, so as to advance his chances to become the permanent manager. But this crap should not float with a good organization, they should recognize that he does not have the huevos necessary to get the job done. For my money, a guy who plays it by the book and close to the vest is not the manager that you really want.

Apparently Pelekoudas is simply taking a caretaker attitude to handling this team, so that there is no master plan as to how the M's can be rebuilt into a contender in future years. Look at Minnesota and how they transitioned through a new GM and Manager while continuing their sound philosophy of developing talent and continuing to compete despite a low payroll.

In most organizations, they recognize failure and dump the old geezers so as to develop talent and give experience to emerging players. Howie, Chukie, it is time to come up with a master plan that governs through GM and managerial changes. You might begin by studying Minnesota's model. Make a commitment to grooming young players and giving them experience necessary to succeed in the major leagues. You have the perfect opportunity to make these moves, the season has long been over and hanging onto these losers will not help you to keep baseball healthy in Seattle.

Posted by Batter Up!!!

8:33 PM, Aug 04, 2008

The good news is Washington is winning big and we will probably be tied for the worst team in baseball when the dust settles tonight.

Sorry, sorry sorry...

Please sell this team to local ownership who will have to suffer the pain with us.

Sims and Blowers laughing their asses off about rally fries is an added insult.

Posted by The Ancient Mariner

8:37 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Tui just hit a grand slam, RRS is pitching a three hitter in Tacoma. Maybe Fox Sports Northwest could just switch us over to that game and we could at least watch some young talent playing exciting baseball for a change. For me, I am tired of even thinking about Vidro and Bastista much less watching them. They are so bad that they make me sick - sick of them and Mariners Management for continuing to showcase such losers.

Posted by Walla Walla Girl

8:39 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Wake me up when the season's o-ver.
Don't keep me hanging on like a yo-yo.

Posted by The Ancient Mariner

8:43 PM, Aug 04, 2008

The old M's pattern of losing is again on us - Make an opposing pitcher look like Cy Young, send out your plus six era starter and give him every chance to pitch batting practice to the opposing team.

Who says the M's don't have a master plan?

Posted by Bagheads

8:52 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Distant diminishing echoes of MY OH MY!
Heretofore replaced daily with WHY OH WHY?
Ever so fragile, that Erik Bedard
Carlos Silva, one fat tub of lard
Vidro challenging the consecutive games streak
The future of this ballclub looking very bleak
Front Office such a secretive, arrogant regime
Doesn't care about winning it sure does seem
Fans sick and disgusted, tired of the lies
Always with the gimmicks, and don't forget those Rally Fries
Fat Cats feeling safe and secure, business is good
July 31, you cracked under pressure, like we all knew you would
You insult our intelligence and always shift the blame
No honor among thieves, you truly have no shame
Sit the kids, always in favor of the vets
Remain stubborn, no matter how bad it gets
They've been through the wars, Mac's tired, old cliche'
Yeah, it shows, now they're disabled and can no longer play
Always an adventure with Raul in left field
Just how many more runs is Batista gonna yield?

Posted by Walla Walla Girl

8:52 PM, Aug 04, 2008

#0, #2, #3, #4, #6.

Posted by scottM

8:57 PM, Aug 04, 2008


Those Mariner Blues:
Youngbloods, bobblehead studs,
or old duds.................More suds.

Posted by chris d

8:59 PM, Aug 04, 2008

I guess that is it, the M's are in the race for worst record. That is one race this FO might be able to win. Let's hope so!

Why do the M's not see and here the frustration and anger of its fans? What is wrong with these people?

Posted by ken

9:01 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Joba had to leave the game early tonight with a shoulder strain - Lee, wake up and try to use your e-mail to Cashman (Do you know how to use e-mail?). Now is the time to try to run Wash through as a waiver claim; Batista & Silva too (naw - Bavasi is out of the game so no GM is stupid enough to claim either of those two)

Posted by The Ancient Mariner

9:02 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Turbo with the bases loaded, now this is high drama that we have been waiting for... or is it. DP from the old geezer, just what the FO ordered.

Posted by Walla Walla Girl

9:04 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Way to showcase it, Turbo.

Posted by Chopper58

9:05 PM, Aug 04, 2008

GIDP Vidro, who would have thought that. The best of the best. That's our Vidro

Posted by Samuel Taylor Coleridge

9:05 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Its a great idea Ken, but will the rudderless M's act on this opportunity to undo their stand pat mistake.

Posted by RagArm

9:07 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Nice, Bagheads!

Posted by Waz

9:07 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Vidro blew it up in bases loaded into double play. Way to go, Nothing news. Sheesh.

Losing.. Batista.. Vidro.. Yep, Not surprised.

Posted by DownOnStrikes

9:09 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Nice lineup Riggleworm, er wiggleworm. Looks like it is paying off nicely for you.

Posted by genesisfan

9:10 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Goodbye Vidro.
Goodbye Chuck.

Does Chuck have a vesting clause?

Posted by RagArm

9:12 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Ha, ha. Maybe the M's will come bouncing back. I went on a bike ride, kissed my wife, and had some cake. No pain for me. No Mariners for me. Say what you will Arm Rag, Get real, and not you, this team sucks and isn't worth watching.

But it is worth poking fun at now!

Posted by Waz

9:13 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Tenth hit for Mariners, and only one run so far.. Too many LOBs..

Posted by Chris from Bothell

9:14 PM, Aug 04, 2008

OMG - Are my ears deceiving me?? Rick Rizzs of all people is actually getting on these guys, on the radio broadcast, for swinging at the first pitch.

Tonight's forecast: frogs. Slowly turning to locusts by morning, 50% chance of the end of the world.

Posted by geeeza

9:18 PM, Aug 04, 2008

we can't score becasue we are slow and only hit singles

Posted by Chris from Bothell

9:20 PM, Aug 04, 2008


Posted by Waz

9:20 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Way to go, Ibanez!! I so glad that M's doesn't trade him. What a relief. :)

Posted by scottM

9:21 PM, Aug 04, 2008

You're sounding like a frog there Chris of B. ;=)

Posted by Waz

9:28 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Game tied 6-6! Lopez!! He's definitely rocks!

Posted by Oh my God!

9:34 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Anybody see where that pitch was that Vidro popped up was......neck high!


Oh my god!

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

9:34 PM, Aug 04, 2008

The fact that the Twins come to Safeco in first place in the AL Central is a testament to their organization

The reason for this is because the Twins organization actually has a blueprint plan on how to run a baseball club. Even with Terry Ryan gone, they have relied on the farm system in building the team. They have stuck with scouting and their homegrown prospects or minor league players. They appear to be well coached on the field, well prepared against the opposition on a daily basis with accurate scouting reports.

The Twins have resisted the implementation of saberetrics and platooning players at every imaginable position. The Twins do not give up on young players after a handful of games, or bring in veterans to psychologically push them to perform. They do not rely on Non-Roster invites to fix holes that were ignored during the winter.

They do not trade their Adam Jones type players under team control for several years for a two year unproven ace with bad pitching mechanics. They trade old or veteran stars that are demanding franchise crippling contracts.

And they do not look for high OBP type players that fit a Moneyball mold of a Nick Swisher or Brad Wilkerson. In large part their organization flourishes from scouting despite budget limitations from ownership. They make mistakes in free agency like many teams, but since the franchise is run like a well oiled machine, they continue to win anyways.

Posted by Jonathan

9:37 PM, Aug 04, 2008

"And why oh why must we continue to see Wiliie Bloomquist in the OF????"

Maybe because of his .353/368/818 against lefties? I don't get why people hate on Bloomquist, he has the fourth most walks on the team, has good speed and plays average defense.

Posted by Nikki

9:39 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Willie is one of our best players and a great guy. Why do SABER losers hate on him? JEALOUS? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)))))

Posted by scottM

9:52 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Balls flying around like locust this half-inning. Will we win this game, or will it be the end of the world as we know it? Or both?

Posted by JONAthan

9:53 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Don't get me wrong Bloomquist is far from great but he doesn't hurt the team in any way. Most teams have a Willie Bloomquist somewhere on the roster.

That last sequence was awesome, very fitting that Bloomquist got thrown out trying to score our 11th run of the inning.

That inning was awesome - especially since we benched Johjima for Clement :)

Raul killed it with his 6 RBI inning, I know the people at USSM hate on him but he is still a productive hitter.

Posted by Bagheads

9:53 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Who were those guys at bat in the 7th? And what have they done with the Mariners?

Posted by BrianL

9:55 PM, Aug 04, 2008

JONAthan - The people at USSM think he has a good bat and can be a good DH. They hate his defense.

Posted by Chris from Bothell

10:02 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Resin - Did you used to be a scout for the Twins?

Posted by ethan

10:02 PM, Aug 04, 2008

someone told the Mariners in the 7th inning that Miguel Batista started tonight.

Posted by Brett in Bonney Lake

10:03 PM, Aug 04, 2008

One idea I have been kicking around lately, I mean besides "WHY IS JOSE VIDRO STILL ON THIS TEAM?" is how big of a difference maker a Josh Hamilton like guy would be on this team full of singles hitters. If we had one or two guys that could actually hit home runs regularly we would be winning a lot more games. 18 guys LOB in a game is ridiculous.

It is nice to see Turbo pick up where Richie left off as team leader in GIDP.

Posted by The Mariners FO.

10:05 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Out of curiosity, BrainL what are your qualifications that lead you to so many definitive views on just about everything?

Posted by BrianL

10:07 PM, Aug 04, 2008

The Mariners FO. - I didn't attend the Donald Trump School of Executive Tomfoolery.

Posted by The Mariners FO.

10:15 PM, Aug 04, 2008

No, Iím serious, what are your baseball qualifications? You have an opinion on just about everything and I for one would like to know the extent of you experience.

Posted by The Mariners FO.

10:31 PM, Aug 04, 2008

I think BrianL has gone to bed.

Posted by scottM

10:39 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Is the Mariners F.O. considering BrianL as the heir apparent to Lee P.? At least we know what BrianL would intend to do with this club. He's not a formal member of TJGS in case that helps.

Posted by The Mariners FO.

10:47 PM, Aug 04, 2008

ScottM, do you know what Brianís background in baseball is? Does he have one or is he just voicing his God given right?

Posted by Big Ebu

10:47 PM, Aug 04, 2008


Thanks for your response on the TJGS. Left you my comments on the original thread

Posted by Sounders

10:48 PM, Aug 04, 2008


Agreed, the Twins way works. But it'll never workhere, cuz Howie and Chuckie have to have 'stars' like ichiro for fans to see. This is not to denigrate Ichiro, cuz he is not the problem, it's just to show that the M's would never go the Twins way because it would result in a drop in attendance.

Figure it out people! They don't care about winning, or even being competitive. They wanna have their amusement park and a couple of names for the fans to see. That's it. Nothing more. Nada

Posted by Walla Walla Girl

10:49 PM, Aug 04, 2008

The seventh inning was amazing. When was the last time the Mariners had an inning like that?

Posted by Bork

10:57 PM, Aug 04, 2008

That was an awesome game! So great to see the Mariners pull together and play like the team they should have been playing like this whole season.

Posted by DC

11:04 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Now let's do it again. This time...without Vidro!!

Posted by Merrill

11:11 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Who are you to ask for anyone's "qualifications"?

Let's see your credentials!

Seriously, man, that's goofy. Assess his "qualifications" on the basis of his arguments. Agree or disagree. Make a counterpoint. What you are doing is called ad hominem, and it's just plain "duh-hyuh" Goofy.

Oh, and 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. Except I'd qualify 4 as "Why is Batista starting?" rather than "...still here?".

Posted by Adam

11:12 PM, Aug 04, 2008

And they do not look for high OBP type players that fit a Moneyball mold of a Nick Swisher or Brad Wilkerson.

And until this year, they haven't been a very good offensive team.

In 2004, the Twins were 10th in the AL in runs scored, and 9th in OBP.

In 2005, 14th in runs scored and 10th in OBP.

In 2006, 8th in runs and 5th in OBP.

In 2007, 12th in runs scored and 10th in OBP.

This year, they are 5th in runs scored, and only 8th in OBP.

It is correct that the Twins don't value OBP as much as other teams (see: Boston Red Sox and the Yankee juggernauts), but they've never been even an average offensive ballclub until this year. So there's no reason to pat the Twins on the back for failing to "look" for high-OBP guys. In fact, it very well might have been to their detriment.

The Twins have resisted the implementation of saberetrics

Any evidence to back up this statement?

and platooning players at every imaginable position.

Now you are just playing fast and loose with your words. Got to watch that. No team platoons players "at every imaginable position." In the first place, a roster only has 25 players, usually with 14 position players at the most, so it is difficult to platoon very much.

Secondly, the Twins DO platoon. Jason Kubel's been in a platoon for the past two years. They platoon at 3B.

What the Twins have always done well is pitch. Since 2004, the lowest the Twins have finished in the AL in runs allowed is 5th (note - this year they are 9th - they are doing it backwards in 2008).

I agree that the Twins have a great scouting department and a good player development program. They are an organization to emulate.

Posted by BrianL

11:17 PM, Aug 04, 2008

The Mariners FO. - I played ball through college, stopped after I blew out my knee and decided to move on to other walks of life. My player evaluation knowledge is limited to what I've learned through Baseball Prospectus, the old James handbooks (my father was kind enough to pass those down to me a few years ago), e-mail correspondence with Rob Neyer of ESPN. And yes, I'm a regular poster at the USSM and LookoutLanding and have purchased the last several Prospect Insider handbooks from Jason Churchill.

I'm simply a fan who desires to understand the game in as many facets as possible. If that rubs you the wrong way, my most sincere apologies.

If you haven't noticed, though, everyone here seems to have an opinion on everything. The only difference is that I come from the sabermetric persuasion, so it tends to stick out a little more against the usual blog noise. Really, I don't mean to upset you and if it's a problem I'd be glad to take it up via e-mail correspondence.

Posted by Forget the nonsense

11:42 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Notice how Adam comes in at the end with his drivel and then BrianL returns to answer an earlier question concerning his qualifications. It is as if the these two have some relationship, maybe they share mom's basement and a little more. These two seem to be consistent know it alls who live in cyberspace eating and drinking sabermetrics. They must both be emaciated twerps of skin and bone like twigs for appendages. Little twerps who think they know it all and who get their kicks thinking they are always right. Pathetic losers.

Posted by BrianL

11:45 PM, Aug 04, 2008

Forget the nonsense - Why, hello. It just wouldn't be a game thread without your trolling, now would it?

Posted by ancient mariner

5:56 AM, Aug 05, 2008

We certainly don't want poor Erika to over-exert himself so the measly $9M he is being paid this year.

Posted by ragarm

7:52 AM, Aug 05, 2008


Hang in there. You don't have to satisfy Mariner's FO. You're not Riggleman. State your opinion and make comments. That's what a blog is for dude.

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