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Geoff Baker covers the Mariners for The Seattle Times. He provides daily coverage of the team throughout spring training, and during the season.

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August 3, 2008 12:31 PM

Game threads, Aug. 3, Mariners vs. Orioles

Posted by Larry Stone

Exciting development today -- an Erik Bedard sighting.

He re-emerged this morning to throw on flat ground for 30 throws, at 60-foot distance. Trainer Rick Griffin said it went well, and that he had no discomfort in his left shoulder -- an encouraging sign. But asked if there was any projection for his return. Griffin laughed and said, "We're projecting he'll play catch tomorrow."

Jim Riggleman also indicated strongly that Brandon Morrow will be transitioned to the rotation as soon as J.J. Putz shows he's ready to take overt the closer's role again. Riggleman said he thinks there's still plenty of time to make the move this season.

"You need a certain amount of time, but we're not at that point yet,'' he said. "How long did it take with Ryan Rowland-Smith down there? He's already ready. It doesn't take long. In two weeks, you can have him stretched out long enough to go five innings....We're not looking for Brandon to comeout here and go eight or nine innings.''



Brian Roberts 2B

Jay Payton CF

Nick Markakis RF

Aubrey Huff DH

Melvin Mora 3B

Kevin Millar 1B

Luke Scott LF

Guilllermo Quiroz C

Alex Cintron SS

Daniel Cabrera P


Ichiro RF

Jeremy Reed CF

Raul Ibanez LF

Adrian Beltre 3B

Jose Lopez 2B

Jose Vidro DH

Bryan LaHair 1B

Jeff Clement C

Yuniesky Betancourt SS

Carlos Silva P

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Posted by RagArm

12:48 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Sing this to the tune of High Hopes by Frank Sinatra:

Next time your down, with your bat on the ground
There’s a lot to be learned, so look around

Just what makes that little FO
Think he’ll create that win with Vidro
Anyone knows an FO, cant
Move a doggy Vidro

But he’s got high hopes, he’s got high hopes
He’s got high rally fries, in the sky hopes

So any time your batting blows
stead of fretting lows
Just remember that FO
Oops, there goes another doggy Vidro

When troubles call, and your glove’s to the wall
There a lot to be learned, that wall could fall

Once there was a silly old man
Thought he’d had the season in a can
No one could make that Vidro scram
He kept hittin like he was in Spokane

cause he had low hopes, he had low hopes
He had low rally fries, in the ground hopes

So any time fan’s are feelin bad
stead of feelin sad
Just remember Riggle’s man
Oops, there goes the last M’s fan

All problems just a toy balloon
They’ll be bursted soon
They’re just bound to go pop
Oops there goes another problem kerplop

Posted by fire_chuck

1:00 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Riggleman should be fired for playing Vidro. Lee FullofExcuses should be fired for not DFA-ing Vidro.

Posted by Heinous Clayness from Uranus

1:04 PM, Aug 03, 2008

In their plan to piss off and drive away the fans who care, the FO has hired me as a consultant because of my excellent track record of raping Seattle fans. My first recommendation was to keep Jose Vidro in the lineup. Glad to see them taking my advice.

Clay Bennett

Posted by downonstrikes

1:07 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Hey folks don't be so down on Vidro and Wiggleworm and the FO. Dave Neihaus just said we would have a world championship flag hanging at Safeco SOON! Man, I can't wait. Wow. Great news Dave. Probably as accurate as your broadcast play-by-plays.

Posted by The man possessed

1:34 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Clay will not be satisfied until he the other two major sports franchises out of Seattle. OKC Seahawks, OKC Mariners anyone? Maybe the city will cut a lease deal with him and move on to more important things.

Posted by TJGS are Idiots

1:43 PM, Aug 03, 2008


You really think KC wants this bovine? I think they can read his statistics and scout his motion, going through thr motions is all he is worth.

TJGS is idiotic

Posted by Idiotic Fools

1:54 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Silva is another sunk cost, you might keep him around to throw batting practice as he seems to be very good at it - giving hitters a chance that is.

Posted by Sounders

1:56 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Man, these threads are entertaining if nothing else.

Baghead has this message for Howie and Chuckie: Don't think you're gonna get away with any sort of phony cheap talk. Step Off and do whatever it takes to get a competent GM here.

If either of you or Pelekoudas or Riggleman are here next year then we'll know a few things. 1. The FO doesn't really care about winning. 2. You clowns are such a bunch of idiots that no GM in his right mind will come here. 3. The perpetual mediocrity is gonna continue for decades to come.

If you guys stick around I know where I'll be next year. Across the street at Qwest watching Sounders FC.

Posted by gisupply01

2:02 PM, Aug 03, 2008

What more could we ask for as M's fans? We have a DH that bats .230 and has a SLG of.337! Silva has an ERA of 6.00. Teams see this and are in FEAR!! What a joke that this team has become! We as fans should be able to file a lawsuit against the FO for incompentence! Where else in the world can you keep your job and underperform for years! As fans we hold a vested interest in the team, as our $$ help pay for the team! This is just reprehensible! If I performed like this at my job, I would not only be fired, but I sure wouldn't be able to get a future recommendation!

It is time for the media to start holding this FO responsible! The Seattle Media should be all over the FO everyday questioning their loyalty to the M's FANS! We deserve a much better team than this! Until the FO starts feeling the pressure from the media that their Fan Base is sick of this, there will be no changes! Who has the addresses for the clowns ruining this franchise? Post it so we can start spamming them!! I will send a letter everyday, and if we all do this they may start to understand that we the fans will eventually stop supporting their ineptness!

My vote other than cleaning the FO, Wiggleman, and sorry aging Vets is to bring in KIM NG!

KIM NG for GM!!!!!!!!!
Of course this will never happen as we have a Japanese owner and in their culture they would never let a woman run the "Company"!!

KIM NG for GM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by gisupply01

2:10 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Even better than Silva's ERA of 6.00 (will rise after todays debacle) is that he is letting teams hit him for a .324 avg!!!!

We can't even get a player to hit .324!

Wasn't Silva the clown claiming that he was about to start being the player to start getting in the other players faces when they were underperforming or not being held accountable? Hard to do that when he sucks worse than the rest of them....well to be honest him and Vidro are equals!! Fat A$$ TWINS!!!

Posted by Top pick in 09 draft

2:16 PM, Aug 03, 2008

toBuffet Silva is getting knocked around again so with the Nationals sweeping their series, we'll be tied with them in the Strasburg derby. Nationals, since they dumped their old, overpriced, underperforming vets, are now undefeated. We could dump Silva, Batista, Wash, Johjima, Cairo, Burke, etc. and not miss a beat. The infusion of youth would be refreshing.and give some hope for the future. Actually, it's brilliant strategy by the FO to continue playing Vidro daily and keep Batista, Wash, & Silva as part of your rotation as we can win the race for next year's #1 pick without being accused of deliberately tanking the season.

Posted by Sounders

2:26 PM, Aug 03, 2008


I'm with you man. Kim Ng has my vote too. But realistically, if Howie and Chuckie stay around there's no chance of that happening, plus Mr. Y's unknown influence might stand in the way of that too.

But that's what it's gonna take to get me back on board.


Nothing less. The M's haven't really been a competitive sports team since Lou and Pat left. Ever since they've been trying to patch up holes in a fundamentally flawed system and philosophy by throwing money around and this year it all collapsed.

I'm Out. All the bobbleheads, Rally Dog Shit on a Stick, waterslides, dancing goofball groundscrews,fireworks and circus atmosphere aren't gonna bring any real fans back.

There is a difference between sticking with your team thru bad years and getting ripped off and talking it in the ass from a bunch of incompetent scum

Posted by Thoan

2:34 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Did Bedard see his own shadow?

Posted by gisupply01

2:46 PM, Aug 03, 2008

I feel the pain! These clowns should be voted worst FO in sports history! What is amazing is the A's, they have managed tp put a competetive team out on the field year in and year out and at half the payroll of the M's. Then you have the Marlins winning the WS after what 10 years and with a low payroll! Our FO has the $$ but can't get any competent GM's or Managers, they do know a good thing though; as the M's keep losing the attendance still outperforms most of the league, therefore there is no need to place a winning team on the field! They are guarenteed to make $$ every year as we as fans have become used to the loser enviroment that has become Safeco Field!

I just received a promotion at work and I would take the $$ and buy season tickets for me and my family as they all enjoy baseball (go figure 2 daughters that know more than our FO) but I realized that all I would be doing is supporting this debacle of a FO, so I didn't and I wont ever step foot in Safeco Field until they rid the bad apples! I have people offering me free tickets but I can't fathom myself ever stepping into the Safe and showing any support for the Clown FO.

By the way, did you all get to see Armstrong in his suite yesterday acting like he caught the foul ball that landed in his suite? What a complete disgrace to the game of baseball, he was smiling and cheering for himself! He has NO REASON to smile if he had any Pride in his job!

Posted by la verdad

2:46 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Buffalo buen trabajo. Usted será en Kansas City en breve.

Posted by gisupply01

2:53 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Great job Silva!!!!

How does one fly out to left and the guy on first is able to tag up and move to second? Wait, of course we have the great defensive LF Raul...this ought to prove the fact that he is a liability in LF, please move him to DH!!!

Posted by Sounders

2:57 PM, Aug 03, 2008

We don't even have a curse to blame it on

We just have stupidity and arrogance

Posted by gisupply01

3:09 PM, Aug 03, 2008


From my 1st Post @ 2:02 pm,
my boy Vidro has dropped to .228 from .230 BA and .334 from .337 SLG! Less than an hour to prove that he is WORTHLESS!!!

Silva's actually went down from 6.00 to 5.95 ERA...wait 5.92 and this is at $12 million? We could have had my boy Baek for $400k to give us the same line, oh wait Baek's ERA is a bit lower 5.22

Posted by ninguna verdad para Jose

3:12 PM, Aug 03, 2008

KC no tiene interés reciente en el búfalo Silva, lo se olvida que usted engaña.

Posted by Jonathan

3:14 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Where are all the Saber-Geeks who say Lopez is worthless? That homerun was beautiful

Posted by Jonathan

3:20 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Reed is horrible against lefties.

Posted by Jim S

3:20 PM, Aug 03, 2008

This may be off topic a bit, but "brought to you by Dino Rossi?" Spare me from politics when I watch baseball. Stick to cars and beer for sponsors, guys.

Posted by The Ancient Mariner

3:30 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Nicely done Jonah! he may have a great glove but he is still a jonah.

Posted by BrianL

3:31 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Jonathan - I don't recall ever saying Lopez is worthless. Feel free to delve into the archives to support your claim, though.

The player I do rag on quite often is Yuni. Without that circa 2005 range, he's approaching replacement-level mediocrity.

Posted by Putts Off

3:34 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Haven't heard about too many shaving cream pies lately, eh Putzy?

Posted by BrianL

3:47 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Speaking of replacement level mediocrity...

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

4:10 PM, Aug 03, 2008

The player I do rag on quite often is Yuni. Without that circa 2005 range, he's approaching replacement-level mediocrity.

Not everyone is able to pick up on scouting. Some people have to work real hard at it, and some are born with the ability to recognize talent and are able to evaluate tools of a player. In BrianL's case, it's obvious he needs to work harder than the average joe. Yuni has plus range. Geoff or any stat head will be hard pressed to find a Scouting Director or team scout that believes Yuni has poor range or league average range.

For fans that don't have the experience other than a Lookout Landing Softball event. When a shortstop is shifted towards third base, a ball hit hard down the middle is nearly impossible to make a play on. The shortstop is not expected to make that play. There are defensive shifts in play during the course of a ball game. This is real life baseball, not a stratomatic board game.

Posted by Ragarm

4:12 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Well, the battle of the cellar dwellers is over and the M's won one of three. Yippee. Are we supposed to feel good about this win?

Posted by BrianL

4:23 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Resin isn't Cheating - Please find me a scouting report that says Yuni still has that range. It's gone.

By the way, do you have that LaHair report for me yet?

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

4:26 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Where are all the Saber-Geeks who say Lopez is worthless? That homerun was beautiful

They were here bashing Lopez all last year and suggesting the death of his brother had nothing to do with his struggles at the plate. The stat geeks pointed to a trend of Lopez having second half slides. Even Mr. Geoff Baker denied seeing what my eyes saw this spring training, and that was a better approach at the plate and mechanics.

Also at Stats-R-Us next door, some brain surgeon suggested trading Jose Lopez and Jarrod Washburn for Chris Duncan and Jamie Garcia.

Not only did they doubt Lopez by suggesting that trade they belioeved LaHair "isn't the answer to anything."

Posted by Forget the nonsense

4:27 PM, Aug 03, 2008

No one owes you anything BrianL unless it is a swift kick in the behind.

Posted by BrianL

4:30 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Resin isn't Cheating - "They were here bashing Lopez all last year and suggesting the death of his brother had nothing to do with his struggles at the plate."

Now you're putting words in our mouths. Go find any instance where someone said that the death of his brother had nothing to do with it.

What is your problem, Logan? From your Seattle PI blog days to your website days to now you've had it out for anything sabermetrics. It's like Bill James personally bullied you on the playground. Instead of using rational, measured argument you make up lies and falsehoods, accusing people of saying things that they never did say.

Lopez still is what he is, an average defender with an average to perhaps slightly above average bat. That's not a problem. That's fine.

Now, what are you going to accuse me of saying next? What words are you going to put in my mouth now?

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

4:31 PM, Aug 03, 2008

By the way, do you have that LaHair report for me yet?

Why do you need one? Use the two eyes God gave you and watch the mechanics of his swing, watch his approach at the plate, look for weaknesses and strengths,watch his defense at first, and make your own evaluation. You don't need Dave Cameron or Baseball America scouting report to come up with your own impression. If you think LaHair is useless, go on record here and just say so.

Posted by BrianL

4:32 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Resin isn't Cheating - The two eyes you're using to prove that LaHair is a surefire ML 1B are the same two eyes that can't see that Yuniesky Betancourt has lost his range.

I'm not sure you have solid footing to stand on.

Posted by Forget the nonsense

4:33 PM, Aug 03, 2008

You were bashing Lopez all last year BrianL, just another stats geek who has no ties to life. Get out of your mother's basement and enjoy a sunny day for a change.

Posted by Sounders

4:34 PM, Aug 03, 2008

The GOOF win and guess what?

No one cares!!!

I watched Manny go 4-5, a homer, a double and three RBI for The Dodgers, then watched Barcelona v Guadalajara on Univision.

Even though I don't understand Spanish I do know when I watching sports. can't say that about The GOOF.

Posted by BrianL

4:34 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Resin isn't Cheating - Did I say LaHair is useless? Had you read anything I've ever said reguarding LaHair, you would know that this is my take on him:

"LaHair could be a useful part of a 1B platoon. I'm doubtful it can amount to more than that based on his inability to hit lefthanded pitching over his career."

That is a far cry from "LaHair is useless"

Once again, you are putting words in my mouth.

Posted by BrianL

4:34 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Forget the nonsense - What are you talking about? I didn't post on this blog last year!

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

4:35 PM, Aug 03, 2008

I never accused you of saying anything about Lopez BrianL. As far as the PI thing, I have no idea what you are talking about. Stop asking me for Lahair's scouting report.

Posted by Forget the nonsense

4:35 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Use your two feet to climb out of the basement before you don't have a leg to stand on - stat geek.

Posted by BrianL

4:37 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Resin isn't Cheating - If you're not going to cite me a scouting report, give me some evidence that Bryan LaHair has magically figured out how to hit LHPs.

If he can't do that, if he is going to continue to hit .200/.220/.250 against them, he is not going to be a regular ML 1B. He'll be a platoon guy at best.

Posted by Forget the nonsense

4:39 PM, Aug 03, 2008

It doesn't matter where you posted, you don't know what you are talking about anyway - just another stat geek without a clue. Got no life, only a computer room in mom's basement.

Posted by Forget the nonsense

4:41 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Who are you to demand a scouting report, just another little twerp.

Posted by Sounders

4:45 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Chuckie: Ah,it's so refreshing to be back where we belong, as the joke of Major League Baseball.
Howie: Yeah. And the people keep coming.
Chuckie: Man, that Ichiro can sure stretch. Look at that!
Howie: Next year, we'll be saving a bunch of money on payroll. Let's get out of this baseball racket, take Ichiro and start an Extreme Celebrity Tiddly-Winks team! We'll make even more money!
Chuckie: Great idea! Where's Lee with my Shit on a Stick?


4:55 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Two Mariners FO executives walk into a bar...

Posted by BrianL

4:59 PM, Aug 03, 2008

ICHIRO FORD NISSAN SUZUKI - and promptly pay $48 million for a cheap bottle of Bud Light.

Posted by Morgan

5:26 PM, Aug 03, 2008

We really need to rid ourselves of Reed and sign a guy that can hit for power in the off seasons AKA HELLO ADAM DUNN

Posted by um hello

5:31 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Morrow not given a "chance" to be a starter?

Duimb sportswriting. The worse team in MLB and pitchers like Morrow have to "earn" a spot?

With the likes of most of the starters ERAs?

It's a given!

Posted by ancient mariner

5:42 PM, Aug 03, 2008

In addition to pitching only about once a month (and then for less than 100 pitches), Erika Bedard never speaks to the fans or the media. It's always Riggleman, Stottlemyre, Griffin or some team member. Erika is a total pussy-wussy. Thank you Conehead Bavasi for another fine player transaction.

Posted by Adam

5:47 PM, Aug 03, 2008

BrianL has every right to ask that Resin cite to his mysterious scouting reports, because he bases all of his arguments on those reports.

When "stat geeks" make an argument, they can, at least, cite to valid data to make their claims.

Resin, on the other hand, relies on reports no of us have ever seen and expects us to believe them. If he had a better reputation, we might be more inclined to take him at his word. But alas, he does not, and thus we do not.

I'd be interested to hear what scouts have to say about Yuni, because if he isn't a good defender, he has very little value. He's a detriment to the team at the plate. And the data coming from RZR and UZR makes clear that his range is declining.

All Resin has to do is produce one single scouting report re: Yuni's defense that states the contrary, and he'd at least have a leg to stand on. But he hasn't produced any said scouting report, nor has he EVER cited to an actual scouting report to back himself up.

And if we really want good, honest debate on this blog, he's going to have to do better than this:

Geoff or any stat head will be hard pressed to find a Scouting Director or team scout that believes Yuni has poor range or league average range.

Again, that statement has no authority behind it. It's useless.

And BTW, I'm the one who argued that Lopez's decline in the second half wasn't entirely due to his brother's unfortunate death. I said that because he declined just as badly in 2006. I'm very happy to see that, so far, Lopez is hitting well in the second half. Maybe we are finally seeing the progression we expected. He still needs to learn how to take ball 4, however.

Posted by Forget the nonsense

5:55 PM, Aug 03, 2008

Adam, you belong in the toilet bowl with the other stinking floatsome bound for the sewer.

Posted by Adam

7:08 PM, Aug 03, 2008

FTN - Is that really all you've got??

Posted by Forget the nonsense

6:42 AM, Aug 04, 2008


Since your divorce, do you ever see your children or do they call someone else daddy? Spend all your time with stats and geeks do you?

Posted by Jonathan

10:44 AM, Aug 04, 2008

In response to Brian L, I'm not specifically referring to a post you made but a lot of the Saber metric stat guys talk down on Lopez. You called him an average hitter for a second basemen which I assume you do because of his OPS, something saber-geeks are obsessed with.

Just as he proved yesterday, sabermetrics don't tell the whole story. How about the fact he's our only .300 hitter? He's #2 in the AL for RBI's by a second basemen just 2 RBI's behind Kinsler. His splits are pretty consistent home/away, day/night, and he's been on a tear since the ASB.

I also like his .326 BAA with RISP, .333 BA Close and Late. I'll take a clutch guy like Lopez no matter what is OPS is.

Posted by Adam

10:57 AM, Aug 04, 2008

FTN - Seriously, my 7 year-old son comes up with better "burns." He just read your comment and said - "He's not very smart!"

Posted by Forget the nonsense

12:19 PM, Aug 04, 2008


When does he spent time with you, given that you are on this blog all the time? But I suppose he lives with his mother and you see him on weekends. What cost you your marriage? Too much time at the blogs? Too bad your son calls another man daddy.

Posted by Kiki

12:43 PM, Aug 04, 2008

You know, for all the talk that Erik Bedard isn't good in the clubhouse and whatnot, just based on some personal observations over the past few months, I'd say he's actually bonding pretty well with Felix. This is good, right? Especially seeing as he will most likely be here at least through 2009?

Posted by Adam

2:43 PM, Aug 04, 2008

FTN - Well, that settles it.

Honestly, use some creativity...

Posted by Forget the nonsense

4:18 PM, Aug 04, 2008


So what was it like when you lost your license? Did the firm stand behind you? Were you caught with your pants down? Did ex-wife take your home and kids? Now it must be fun to live in your mother's basement, are you registered with the state list of sex offenders? I bet the wife will not let you near the children. Maybe the state had you castrated so that you can not harm anyone else every again. It sure explains your sorry attitude. Take your arrogant ass elsewhere.

Posted by Adam

6:27 PM, Aug 04, 2008


Wow. Such genius...

Posted by Forget the nonsense

7:38 PM, Aug 04, 2008


So is your mother's basement dank and musty smelling? Great place to rot you prostate, but then you can use it anyway. Do you ever go out in the sunlight? Or are you just a creature of the dark? What do people say about you - look there goes Adam, he used to be a lawyer, but you know what he did .... Now, he is just a .... freaking stat geek.

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