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Geoff Baker covers the Mariners for The Seattle Times. He provides daily coverage of the team throughout spring training, and during the season.

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July 7, 2008 7:02 AM

Sabathia going, Bedard next?

Posted by Geoff Baker

Good morning to all of you. A huge thanks to Jose Romero for hanging in for yesterday's marathon. Did a fantastic job with all those multiple blog posts. Tough game yesterday, in a series where the Mariners did indeed decide to show up after a lousy opening night loss to the Detroit Tigers. Same old problems scoring runs, but at least the pitching did make itself felt over the final three games. No, I would not have pitched Arthur Rhodes on a sore arm either. Not when the team, if it has any smarts, is just weeks away from dealing him. Brandon Morrow went through the whole "sleeping on the arm wrong" problem a few weeks back. It sounds funny, but a pinched nerve, or whatever, from sleeping is the same as getting it from throwing. Had Jim Riggleman sent him out there and seen Rhodes get hurt, botching his team's chance to pick something up in a deal before the July 31 trade deadline, that would have been negligent on this team's part. Sorry, I know it's tough to swallow for fans who followed all 15 innings yesterday, but these games are meaningless. Dealing Rhodes and picking up something in return is more important to the big picture.

Speaking of which, some of you likely already know that C.C. Sabathia is about to be traded by the Indians to the Milwaukee Brewers for three prospects. The centerpiece of the deal is said to be Matt LaPorta, a Class AA outfielder who was Milwaukee's first-round pick last year. Next on the list is Class AAA lefty starter Zach Jackson, who I know from his days in the Toronto Blue Jays system. Jackson was dealt to Milwaukee by Toronto, along with Dave Bush and Gabe Gross, for Centralia's Lyle Overbay at the 2005 winter meetings. Bush and Gross are both in the majors (Gross in Tampa Bay) now, but Jackson was thought to be the best player going to the Brewers in that deal. Was thought to be a "can't miss'' arm at the time. He was in Class AA back then, so now, at age 28, he obviosuly hasn't "hit'' the big leagues full-time yet, though he's appeared in 10 career games at that level. Such is the prospects game.

The third prospect is Class A right handed pitcher Rob Bryson, a 31st round pick from 2006. Another player will also reportedly be included.

So, that's a premium prospect, a onetime premium prospect who should be big-league ready soon and some filler.

Sabathia was the top lefty on the market. Teams like Philadelphia and Tampa Bay had been after him. What does this mean for Erik Bedard? Well, conventional wisdom has it that he should become the next most coveted lefty starter out there. I agree with that. But can the Mariners expect to haul in what the Brewers just did? That depends. On Bedard.


Here's the thing. Sabathia could walk at the end of the season and sign elsewhere as a free-agent. Any club trading for Bedard would automatically have him under club control through the end of the 2009 season. That is attractive. But not potentially as attractive as it seems up front.

First off, the Brewers could net themselves back two high level draft picks if Sabathia decides to walk after this season, as mentioned in the Ken Rosenthal article I linked to. Now, picks are picks, I understand that. Not the same as those prospects the Brew Crew is giving up. Those guys are showing they at least have a good chance at the majors. Not all picks pan out that way. But everything's a gamble.

With Bedard though, having him around through 2009 is only a good thing if a team actually wants him around that long. There are several questions swirling around the lefty right now and many are not of the positive varitety. Teams will want to know why it is he's had trouble getting beyond six innings since late May. They will want to know why he's apparently been felled by a hip problem, back problem and now, a shoulder problem, before the season is barely halfway done.

They'll want to know why he hits a wall as he nears 100 pitches.

Those three things will ensure Bedard is not nearly as highly regarded as Sabathia.

Now, I may get fried for writing this, but I'm not sure I subscribe to the whole "Bedard is a wimp" notion that I've seen come up in the blogosphere of late. I'm always reluctant to describe professional athletes this way. Let's face it, many of them could take you or me apart in quick fashion. Not sure "wimps" describes them in reality, once we get beyond normal frustration at their performances. Bedard came to Seattle with a bulldog reputation and I've seen that bulldog approach on the mound from him all season. When he walks guys, like he did the other day against Detroit, he battles to prevent them from scoring. He doesn't give up a grand slam on the next pitch. So, I don't see a wimp there. This is where Bedard could really help himself by being a little more human and less standoffish with the media. His image has taken a hit in Seattle and around the game. Not because the media is trying to collectively bury him. But because fans are questioning his heart, based on what they see on the field, and he is doing nothing to address their concerns. Nothing to shut them up -- on the mound or off it.

As his own PR agent, he should stick to pitching. Or hire an image consultant who knows what they are doing.

But in my eyes, I still see the bulldog mentality I'd heard about.

Trouble is, this season, he's been a bulldog for five or six innings. That's not "ace" quality. And teams will want to know what they're trading for.

Yes, I'm going off "results based analysis" for now, because this is a results-based game. And any deal to acquire Bedard will hinge on his ability to produce results right away. It won't matter so much what teams expect him to be capable of down the road. What his peripheral stats suggest he should be in the future. How many of you are applauding Bill Bavasi's trade for him right now? Why not? Because of the results, naturally. Yes, I know some of you felt the M's gave up too many players to get him. But if Bedard was throwing complete games every other outing, like Roy Halladay, you wouldn't care as much. As I said, it's a results-based game. If the Rays don't bolster their pitching at mid-season and later wilt in a playoff race, their management will have to answer for their failure to produce results. Think it's easy? That the Rays will automatically win the AL East next year? Maybe they will. Or maybe, they'll turn out like the Indians have this year. Some windows seem destined to stay open forever but slam shut sooner than expected. You never know whether this open window will be your last one as a GM. You don't win prizes for your system in this game. You earn kudos for your results. And right now, contending teams are looking at the results Bedard could bring.

This is much like the Adam Jones situation of last year. The M's didn't play Jones last fall, rightly or wrongly, because they were worried he might initially struggle the way Jeff Clement and Wladimir Balentien have so far this year. They knew they only had a six-week window for him to produce and could not afford to wait over the long haul. So, they made a judgement call.

Same with Bedard. Even though he'll be under contract for next year, the big push to get him right now will still be for the results he can produce over the final two months of the season. If he's a five or six inning pitcher who will require the coming winter to get over his hurts, that's a big deal. It means the M's could perhaps expect only one decent prospect -- instead of Sabathia's two -- and some filler in return for his services. I've written before that the NL is usually a softer landing spot for pitchers. Bedard could be far more valuable to the Phillies if the transition to the NL squeezes another inning per game out of his arm and allows him to throw six or seven innings with his 100 pitches. A better chance of that in the NL than going up against AL East squads the majority of the time as a Rays pitcher.

Now, if the M's could generate a bidding war between teams, obviously their haul has a chance of going up. But these problems Bedard is having with longevity will impact discussions. Make no mistake. Throwing 100 pitches is not a problem if, like Nate Robertson of the Tigers yesterday, you go nine innings off that. It's a serious problem if you go five innings as Bedard has done.

As I've mentioned, Jarrod Washburn has provided five or six innings of one or two-run ball for a month. He might not have the fancy curveball or the hefty strikeout totals, but he'll give you the same results. Without having to pay a premium in prospects to get him. The Brewers could still go after Washburn to shore up the middle of their rotation. If a team feels that Bedard will only give them five or six innings, they may ask themselves whether he'll be worth it for their short-term needs.

If the answer is yes, then the M's could snag back a significant part of what they dealt to get him. If not, they will be faced with having to keep him around or else swallow one huge, bitter-tasting pill.

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS (11:55 a.m.) For JI in the comments thread, I'm totally serious about Jarrod Washburn having put up results that are similar to Erik Bedard's over the past month. If you want, we'll even go back to the last week in May. So, for the last six weeks:

Washburn (IP, ER)

6.0...2
7.2...2
5.2...1
6.0...2
6.0...1
5.1...4
6.0...2


Bedard (IP, ER)

5.0...1
5.2...1
3.0...0
6.0...2
5.0...1
3.1...4
7.0...0

Over the last seven starts, Washburn has thrown 42 2/3 innings and yielded 14 runs.

Bedard has gone 35 innings and given up nine runs.

Over the last six starts, Washburn has gone 37 1/3 innings and given up 12 runs. Bedard has gone 28 innings and given up nine runs.

So, going off recent results, there is a definite statistical comparison to be made in the results that matter. A team looking for quick results over the next two months is certainly going to wonder what Bedard is capable of producing. If he's hurting and going to give you Washburn-like results, why give up premium prospects for him when Washburn won't cost you any?

The money between the pair is fairly negligible. Bedard should earn an arbitration award of higher than $10 million next year, so he and Washburn will pretty-much be a sawoff money-wise.

To be clear, Bedard obviously has the higher upside. But if that upside comes in 2009, it isn't going to help a playoff contender in 2008 if Bedard continues to be a five or six-inning pitcher. In a five or six-inning lefty is what you need this year, you can pretty much have Washburn for the cash and worry about next year later on.

Bedard is not producing results as advertised. He came here as a guy capable of going seven innings or more. He is going five and sometimes six. That is not "ace like" any way you slice it. Something is amiss and any team trading for him will want to know what's going on.

So, hope that helps.


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Posted by BrianL

7:29 AM, Jul 07, 2008

I don't see Bedard being traded this season, not with his value so low and with an interim GM running the show. Soonest it would happen is the 2008 Winter Meetings. Latest it would happen is the 2009 trade deadline.

Posted by Mr. X

7:32 AM, Jul 07, 2008

If he isn't traded by the trading deadline, they should seriously consider shutting him down for the rest of the year. We need him to either help the team win next year, or improve his status as a trade target. He can't do either unless he's healthy.

Posted by BrianL

7:49 AM, Jul 07, 2008

I'm pretty sure that after last night's bullpen extravaganza, Bedard is going to wind up on the 15-day DL retroactive to his last start. They're going to need a fresh arm in the pen.

Posted by Ry

7:59 AM, Jul 07, 2008

The M's paid a big, big price for Bedard. It's way too early to talk about dealing him. You don't buy high and sell low with a guy who's under contract for another year. That's just stupid. He and Felix can still be a deadly 1-2 punch at the top of the rotation. This year? Maybe not so much but people are completely overreacting to this 5-6 inning, 100 pitch issue. You'd think he's had a Batista-type year the way everyone's calling for him to be moved.

Posted by BrianL

8:04 AM, Jul 07, 2008

I wonder how much that hip issue back in April has hurt Bedard. If he's compensating with his arm/shoulder/elbow, that could be disastrous. With the season lost, I'd like to see him placed on the DL for a while. That will let us get an extended look at RR-S (and perhaps Morrow after Putz's return) in the rotation. If RR-S works out well, we can deal Washburn and free up some more salary for next season. We'll have enough money to go after both Mark Teixeira and Ben Sheets.

Don't trade him this season, that would be selling at rock-bottom low. The draft picks we'd get by letting him walk after next season would carry more value than what we'd get in return from a trade right now.

Posted by Chris from Bothell

8:10 AM, Jul 07, 2008

X is absolutely right. In fact, any of our guys with a minor twinge - e.g. Beltre and his hand - should be rested, and take the time to get a look at minor league guys. The Ms DL should be used more heavily than it is.

And Geoff, while you bring up the subject of Bedard's lack of postgame presence, I can only assume the side comment about Sexson's struggles amd availability to press in (a href = "http://www.komonews.com/marinersradio/shannon/22852319.html>Shannon Drayer's latest blog post was a swipe at you. :)

"Heís handling it gracefully, although some will grumble if he doesnít come out and talk whenever requested. He is there most of the time. Good enough for me. It canít be easy and sometimes honestly, he canít win with whatever he would say."

Posted by Mikavexo

8:12 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Well, I wouldn't try to move Bedard right now because of the injury situations, but let him get a couple of good back to back starts then get him out of here. I think his attitude is a drain in the clubhouse and he makes other players worse rather than better.

As for Bedard being a wimp, he is relatively speaking. As an adult, I can beat up any kid at the elementary school playground, but that doesn't make any of those kids wimps. The wimps would be the kid that can get beat up by any of his peers. Bedard would be that kid who misses a lot classes because he always has some kind of cold, flu or something else.

Posted by Jeff C

8:15 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Geoff, you said:

"But if Bedard was throwing complete games every other outing, like Roy Halladay, you wouldn't care as much."

The problem with this statement is that before the trade many were cautioning about the fact that Bedard had never thrown 200 innings or greater in his career. This argument was ignored.

Posted by bikeman

8:19 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Bedard regarded as a bulldog must be the best kept secret around. For all the pre-trade press between the Mariners and the Os I heard nary a word describing him as having a bulldog prowess.

Posted by Don

8:20 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Why not keep Bedard around for the future? I've seen Bedard show glimpses of what he's capable of. As a professional, I believe Bedard should push himself to the limit every time he steps on the mound. However, when you play for one of the worst teams in baseball you may second guess pushing yourself to the brink of injury to put your team 18 games back of first place. I like the way the M's have played post-McLaren and I'd like to see how our team develops the rest of this season.

Posted by downonstrikes

8:27 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Bedard has a toxic personality that sickens the fans, media, and I'm betting the club house too. He said he doesn't care about the fans in an All Access interview with Brad Adams yesterday. All he cares about is his family and a few close friends in Canada, he said, no one here. Is having a person around who feels that way worth the price of waiting until next year? I don't think so.

Bedard is out for himself and in the long run he will poison the entire team. Trade him now for the best deal we can get. Games are more enjoyable when you love the players, even if they have their struggles on the field.

And Geoff, Bedard is our bitter-tasting pill and we have already ingested. Spit it (him) out.

Yuck!

Posted by Lenny Randle's Breath

8:43 AM, Jul 07, 2008

I would like the M's to keep him if he wants to stay. If he doesn't want to stay then they should move him. He looks like a really good pitcher to me.

Posted by eastcoast

8:45 AM, Jul 07, 2008

I would deal Bedard ASAP, because (as Geoff pointed oout) he is under club control through 2009 at a reasonable price. That alone may offset his injuries and attitude, and allow you to obtain close to what the Indians received for CC.

I'm truly amazed at some of the comments you see from M's fans. At some point, I've seen posts suggesting that we keep Bedard, Putz, Beltre, Wash, Ibanez, ?Ichiro - because we just need some tweaking for next year. Where exactly is this tweaking going to come from if we stand pat at the deadline?? From within?? Our farm system has to be in the bottom third in baseball. There are few, if any, truly MLB ready talents there. FA's?? Yeah, we all know how they love to come to Seattle. So, at some point, M's fans have to realize that trading some of our better players is the best way to rebuild this team.

As for this comment - "Sorry, I know it's tough to swallow for fans who followed all 15 innings yesterday, but these games are meaningless." Well Geoff, that one just about caused my temporal artery to blow out the side of my head. What were some of those comments about the culture of losing?? What kind of message are you sending to players when you say its OK to lose this one. We really battled, but hey its OK, you tried your best. If RA Dickey truly volunteered, then let him pitch! And I commend him for having the heart to compete and win, which is something that this team sorely lacks. And, Geoff, if this games are as meaningless as you say, why the hell am I still watching Richie, Vidro, Cairo, Bloom, and Joh, when I could be watching Clement and Reed? Well, according to you, because the M's are aware of the fact that losing 100 games is possible and they want to avoid that. Really?!? Could have fooled me.

And Geoff, a question for Riggleman. Since we are facing another LH pitcher tonight, should we expect Clement and Reed to start the game on the bench? And since they are starting on the bench, is it likely that they won't see any action unless we need our third string catcher or someone suffers an injury? Just curious, because if the answer is yes, and this games are meaningless like you say, then I will just save myself some time and frustration, and not watch.

Posted by Chuck

8:53 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Bikeman:
You heard what you wanted to hear. The only rap on Bedard last summer winter was the writers in Baltimore didn't like him and that he was injury prone. The baseball guys said he was a hell of a pitcher and stayed away from the big innings ("Bulldog?"), and the players liked him.
downonstrikes:
Last I checked the Ms didn't get Bedard to be a PR darling. They knew he was the opposite. They got him to pitch. What some of us forget is that baseball is a big business. Know one asked Bedard if he wanted to come to Seattle. He was traded. No one will look out for Bedard--least of all the people that supervise him. He's a piece of meat and when he is of no use he'll be discarded. I'm sure he realizes that if he is to be taken care of, he'll have to do it himself. I'm also sure that he realizes that you and the rest of the fans don't really care about his physical well being--so why should he care about the fans? I'm just trying to inject a little rality intto this. And for you stat fans, Bedard is 6 up and 4 down which is better then the Mariners team. Now if he can just stretch those 100 pitches into 7 innings...

Posted by Brett in Bonney Lake

9:09 AM, Jul 07, 2008

The whole Burke situation never would have happened if:

A. They carried an extra pitcher rather than three catchers.

or

B. 0-6 from Richie.

Posted by Henry Tracks

9:13 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Some of you are ridiculous... including you Baker.. you've been right there with dogging Bedard for going out at 100 pitches and missing starts..

The man is pitching through pain. Hip pain and back pain.. he still decides to go out there and compete for as long as he can (5-6 innings) and give this last place squad a chance to win.

If the man was a wimp or soft, or w/e the rest of u call him.. he'd tell the M's "screw u, im goin on the DL, collecting my check, etc".. instead he takes the ball when he can and gives you 100 pitches of usually 1-2 ER ball..

The media bashes him for this, as do the Seattle fans.

Meanwhile Baker and his little blog applaud Carlos Silva routinely for giving the team 7-8 IP, even when he's giving up 6 runs.

Apparently, Baker's views the starters job as going deep into games regardless of how many runs he gives up.

The rest of u fans complain and whine because Bedard doesnt give an interview. Who the heck cares about giving interviews. I dont care if the man doesnt have a tongue. All I want is him to go out there, and pitch, and pitch well.

The injuries have hampered him from doin this consistently but the man, still has been our 2nd best starter to date.

Yet, Im reading this garbage on a daily basis, about Bedard not getting it done... And im reading above, as Baker says Washburn will give u as much as Bedard..

Jarrod freakin Washburn who has had an ERA over 6 most of the season..

Why dont you stop being a baby Geoff, and using your blog to criticize Felix Hernandez and Erik Bedard whenever they fail to be dominant, and dont speak to u.. and start calling out players who have been utterly pathetic.. Washburn, Batista, Silva, half the offense..

Posted by byebyeSexson

9:29 AM, Jul 07, 2008

I agree, Brett in Bonney Lake when you say, "The whole Burke situation never would have happened if:

A. They carried an extra pitcher rather than three catchers.

or

B. 0-6 from Richie. "

Defenders will say that this is hindsight, but believe me it's hindsight that many bloggers have been harping about for months and months.

Our third catcher has some value, cash him in (whomsoever he is).

Richie has no value. Discard him, he stands in the way of meaningless wins, the guy ahead of him in the order, and the development of a first baseman.

byebye

Posted by BrianL

9:36 AM, Jul 07, 2008

If we're going to dump a catcher, we have to commit to turning Johjima or Clement into a full-time backup. You can't pencil them into the lineup at C and DH. If one of them is catching and one of them is DHing, a problem occurs if an injury happens. If the catcher goes down (via injury or pinch runner)and the DH is moved into the field, the pitcher will have to hit for themselves.

Posted by scottM

9:40 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Nice balanced assessment of Bedard, GEOFF.

As for the TBRays, they,ve played against Bedard for a few years and are very familiar with him. I predict they will trade for him and Bedard will be a #2 guy among a staff full of #2 pitchers. I see him helping them win it all this year. That will shut up the wimp talk that's helping to poison the well for him here in Seattle.

Posted by BrianL

9:46 AM, Jul 07, 2008

scottM - I doubt the Rays make any moves. Their starting rotation is solid with Kazmir/Shields serving as their dual aces. Sonnanstine is a solid #3 pitcher and Garza/Jackson are good back-of-the-rotation starters. Their bullpen might need a bit of tweaking, but after Percy gets back they'll be fine.

If they add anything, it'll probably be a bat. The Red Sox have outpaced them when it comes to scoring runs, but the Rays have outpitched their Boston rivals. If they can add a LF/DH type bat that's slightly above average, they'll be my pick to win the AL East.

Posted by Mark H.

9:47 AM, Jul 07, 2008

"Sorry, I know it's tough to swallow for fans who followed all 15 innings yesterday, but these games are meaningless." If these games are meaningless then the Mariners' ownership ought to do the only decent thing left - forfeit the remainder of the season, refund season ticket holders, and refuse to screw single game purchasers and advertisers out of any more money. If the M's are not going to give every inning a professional effort, then charging for anything less is deceit and theft.

Posted by Ziasudra

10:00 AM, Jul 07, 2008

CC Sabathis is gone (as reported by the PI - where's the Times' report?).
Keep Bedard, drop Rhodes.
Drop Vidro; Joh to DH
Drop Sexson, Raul to 1B
Bring up Diaz for LF.
Find an AB for Clement among Sexson's 0 for 6 - is that possible?
Yesterday's game was as poor an offense and poor management decisions that we've seen all year (and part of last). Incredibly stupid - I wouldn't make those mistakes in Little League..

Posted by eastcoast

10:06 AM, Jul 07, 2008

BrianL - I agree re: the rays. I think BP, if anything, is the way to go. I previously suggested JJ as a trade candidate, but it sounds like the rays may go after Fuentes. Maybe Ibanez as a LF/DH type bat, who wouldn't mess up the clubhouse either. The Brewers may also be a potential place for JJ.

As for Bedard, his value may also decline because of a lack of willing trade partners. Philly seems like a logical partner, but who else? Maybe the Yanks. The Cubs certainly don't seem interested. What about the Tigers?

Posted by ghph

10:07 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Seattle is reknown for being hyper-polite, and look at the fan reaction towards Bedard. The philly fans would eat Bedard alive. I have a feeling he'd fall apart there, and Gilick certainly would have to factor that into the equation for any player he trades for. The fans boo loud and often, listening/watching to phillies games are sometime fun just to hear the boos. You have to have a certain personality to survive in Philly and being a recluse there is probably not the way to go.

From what I've read in the past, I think Bedard's a small-town, shy kind of guy, and it could be why he avoids the media...

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

10:09 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Applaud Bavasi trading for damaged goods? No thanks Geoff.

I don't believe Bedard has the best trade value right now. There is a perception around the league; thanks to his manager and PR staff making excuses for him, that Erik is hurt.

I believe Bedard is just suffering from an arthritic hip that bothered him earlier this year that wont ever heal. The same hip problem the Orioles cleverly called an oblique strain that forced Baltimore to shut Erik down for weeks. That is the nature of arthritis, it won't go away unless you cease activity. I don't believe a pitcher that complains about the heat and asks to be taken out qualifies as being described as a bulldog.

As far as landing talent for Bedard in a deal. I have no confidence the current front office that runs out Miguel Cairo at first base, platoons Willie Bloomquist and Jeremy Reed at center, along with Clement and Johjima at catcher, can land a nice deal for us.

Posted by C.J.

10:10 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Nothing will change in Seattle untill Lincon/Armstrong go.No brilliant trades.No magical turnaround.Period.

Posted by scrapiron

10:15 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Buster Olney of ESPN said that several GM's have been told by Pelekoudas that the Mariners aren't ready to move Bedard yet. That tells me a lot.

Basically I wouldn't move Bedard unless I got two top level prospects and one major league ready talent. Otherwise he'll have just as much trade value, if not more, in the off season and I'd rather our new GM make the deal than our interim GM.

Posted by BrianL

10:19 AM, Jul 07, 2008

scrapiron - The only way you move Bedard is if you're guaranteed to get something that's more valuable than a couple of high 1st round draft picks, which is what Bedard would fetch if we let him walk.

Posted by eastcoast

10:19 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Goeff, after much pondering, I finally realized what you are trying to say.

So, the games are meaningless?

And the M's don't want to lose 100 games either, despite giving the Tigers a gift yesterday.

So the M's do have goals?!? And it's quite a lofty one. They plan on losing as close to 100 games without going over. Boy, this is fun, it's just like The Price is Right! The best way to achieve not losing 100 games is by maintaining a veteran presence in the lineup. Because playing clement and Reed would certainly push you over the 100 loss mark.

As for yesterday (sorry, I just can't let go), I think Riggleman backed himself into a corner with that lineup. He probably would PH for Cairo, but then who would play 1B? Maybe Vidro. He'll PR, but not PH for Sexson, which requires getting on-base. He couldn't PH for Burke, because he knew Burke would be pitching. And no one is going to PH for Bloomie. Hence, when the game is on the line, we send Sexson, Cairo, Burke, and Bloomquist to the plate. I wonder if Jim Leyland was laughing, or just thankful that he went 15 innings without having to deal with Clement or Morrow?

Posted by CG

10:27 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Geoff - you are missing one key point - supply and demand. Supply just went down by one "ace-potential" type of pitcher. Since there are more teams seeking it than there are those players out there, Bedard should garner more, not less, than what CC garnered even with all of the unfavorable comparisons.

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

10:35 AM, Jul 07, 2008

You want a first round draft pick for Bedard so that Bob Fontaine can pass up another All-Star #1 ace starter, Tim Lincecum; or draft our third consecutive reliever?

No thanks. I'd be more inclined to jump at any offer that brings back a top prospect in return from a desperate team at the deadline.

Posted by scrapiron

10:43 AM, Jul 07, 2008

BrianL - That's exactly what I was saying. We gave up two high level draft picks (Jones, Tillman) and one major league ready player (Sherrill) for Bedard. I would expect nothing less in a deal now. If you don't get at least that, hold on to him until the off season.

Geoff mentioned Philadelphia - We'd want Carlos Carrasco (#1 PHI prospect), Joe Savery (2007 #1 pick) and Shane Victorino (starting LF).

Tampa Bay wants him? Heck, I'd take David Price and a single A prospect, but I know Price is untouchable. But TB is loaded. How about Tim Beckham (2008 #1), Wade Davis and Matt Garza.

Like I said, you don't HAVE to deal him, so if you don't get an overwhelming offer, hang tight.

Posted by C Cheetah

10:47 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Bedard is NOT the player that poisoned the Mariners.
Bedard was the one who was poisoned by the Mariners, and now the MEDIA - Geoff and others - are trying to blame this season on Bedard.
I guarantee that Bedard will be great on the next team he is on, and the Mariners will have screwed up again on trading someone at their low point of their career.

Posted by BrianL

10:50 AM, Jul 07, 2008

I doubt TB parts with Price. They'd part with Longoria before letting him ago.

Posted by C

10:54 AM, Jul 07, 2008

If 2 elitist and concieted white guy`s can run this country in the ground,they can easily run this team in the ground.When will armstrong/Lincon be held accountable?

Posted by eastcoast

11:00 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Why would TB (already with an excellent starting staff) exchange SP and toss in a couple of top prospects to boot? That makes absolutely zero sense. And neither Price nor Longoria are going to get dealt for any players that are currently available. The Rays will be able to add a bat, and a reliever, without giving up any of their blue chips - and they'll be just fine.

Posted by Juan

11:01 AM, Jul 07, 2008

I agree,Bedard was poisoned by the Mariner`s and there loseing culture.Not the other way around.It`s amazeing what palyer`s do when they play in a city with passion and have fan`s with an actual baseball I.Q.
Bavasi put this mess together.Not Bedard.I mean Bavasi has been makeing mistakes for year`s that are going to be painfull to remember for year`s to come.I still get angry thinking of Carlos Guienn being traded for Nothing and then bringing in guy`s like Aruilla and Spizeozo.And on and on and on

Posted by Tacoma Rain

11:03 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Bedard needs to be signed to a four year deal NOW!!
Sign BEDARD. His price will never be any lower.

Bedard is a great number 3 pitcher, and we will need him in 3 years when we can compete.

Posted by Walrus

11:06 AM, Jul 07, 2008

I agree with Tacoma Rain for once...

It is time to SIGN Bedard, not trade him.

Build for the future. Felix, Morrow, Bedard....
Pitching and defense it what we need.

Posted by telly

11:09 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Why can't a team go against traditional thinking and start building for the future now, using the trade deadline as a catalyst, instead of waiting for the off-season and getting into bidding wars?

Trade for as many good to great players (that have a year or two left on their contracts) that other non-contenders are looking to dump. Wouldn't this also show your fans and prospective end of the season free agents that you are serious about building a winner?

Posted by C.J.

11:13 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Bedard will not sign with Seattle.He doesn`t want to be here and that should be obvious.The mariner`s have had rotation`s stacked with 3 and 4 starter`s for years but have not had a solid 1-2 top rotation which we desperately need.
However Bedard is a #2 type guy.But will he be 2 year`s from now?Nobody can say.But with his injury prone body it doesn`t look good.

Posted by Top pick in 09 draft

11:15 AM, Jul 07, 2008

I believe Bedard would have the most trade value with an NL team where his 100 pitches could make it through at least 6- 7 innings because of their softer lineups. Washburn would also have good trade value to an NL team. The M's could help expedite their rebuilding process by trading either or both prior to the trading deadline. Nothing much is coming out of the M's front office which tells me Pelekoudas is just merely a caretaker until the team gets a real GM this offseason. I just hope the rumors of the team being sold by Mr. Yamauchi are true which means that Lincoln & Armstrong are both lameducks so they are not allowed to make any major moves at this point.

Posted by C.J.

11:17 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Armstrong and Lincon still Suck

Posted by C.J.

11:24 AM, Jul 07, 2008

"Top Pick"-I can`t believe as fan`s we have been reduced to anticpateing front office and ownership moves the way we anticipated the july 31 trade deadline in the past.
This is bad,very bad.

Posted by Capo

11:29 AM, Jul 07, 2008

"I'm not sure I subscribe to the whole "Bedard is a wimp" notion that I've seen come up in the blogosphere of late."

Really? C'mon man, you are about 3 years late to this party. Don't tell me you have your head stuck in the same orifice as the M's front office.

"Bedard isnít liked much in Baltimore, even though heís a good Canadian kid. He has developed a reputation for being surly and difficult to coach, and he upset someone so much during his injury recovery last year that the front office spent most of the winter trying to trade him. Bedard was accused of malingering during his injury recovery."

This is but one example from people who covered the Orioles during Bedards stay in Baltimore.

At this point, we have to keep Bedard.......put him on the DL for a couple of weeks, or put him in the bullpen so he stops hurting the team with his selfish 100 4-5 inning outings......but trading him now would end up in a worse ass raping than Bavidiot got from the Orioles.

Thank you Billy Bavasi, thank you for setting the M's back 5 yrs and ensuring we won't make the playoffs for another 3-5 yrs.

Posted by JI

11:33 AM, Jul 07, 2008

"Jarrod Washburn has provided five or six innings of one or two-run ball for a month. He might not have the fancy curveball or the hefty strikeout totals, but he'll give you the same results."

You can't be serious.

Posted by scrapiron

11:36 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Why would Tampa Bay want Bedard? Simple. For the same reason Milwaukee wanted Sabathia. In a pennant race you can never have enough ace pitchers. TB has never been this close in their history, and with the Red Sox breathing down their neck, putting Bedard in the rotation with Kazmir and Shields could make them dominant. Plus TB would have Bedard for 2009 as well, so they'd be a force next year too. That extra year on his contract is a huge trading chip and why I think we should be able to get a better package than Cleveland got for CC.

I do agree that we need to make a good faith effort to give Bedard an extension. If he doesn't want to talk contract, then you know he doesn't want to be here. Then start seeing what you can get for him. I said at the time of the deal I only liked it if they could sign Erik to an extension.

Posted by Bill

11:38 AM, Jul 07, 2008

I don't understand why all the recent hatred of Bedard is coming from. To me, he is exactly the kind of personality the M's knew they were trading for. Bavasi told the world at the press conference that Bedard doesn't like to talk about himself. Why does this come as a surprise to anyone? Do you think the northwest air was supposed to transform Bedard?


Is there any proof that he is a bad clubhouse guy other than he may not want to talk to reporters after a game? Or is there something else we don't know about?


Even if Bedard won every one of his starts the M's would still be in last place. They could only manage 1 run in 9 innings at home off Nate Robertson.

Posted by Brian H

11:38 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Geoff;

I go both ways on Bedard. I like Bedard, and want to see him succeed in Seattle. That is, if he wants to be here. I get the impression he wants out. If this is true, then he needs to go. I wonder how much he may be the source of tension in the club house? Maybe it is just the public impression because he does not like to talk to the media.

If he needs to be traded, I do not know if now is the best time. With the injuries and all, his value has to be lower than if it was strong.

BTW, I think these games do mean something. Maybe not for the playoffs, but for baseball and the example to kids and the integrity of the players and game, these games do mean something.

Brian H.

Posted by BrianL

11:38 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Jarrod Washburn costs 2 million a season more than Erik Bedard.

I'm not sure if that argument holds water, Geoff.

Posted by Top pick in 09 draft

11:45 AM, Jul 07, 2008

It's hard to tell what Bedard's impact is in the clubhouse. If I were a player, I would be very upset that Bedard doesn't leave the clubhouse and sit in the dugout on games he isn't pitching - how can you chart pitches if that is the case. I think Riggleman is having him sit in the dugout more however Grandpa Mac just seemed to let Bedard do whatever he felt like. As surly as he was, Randy Johnson was always in the dugout rooting the team on when he wasn't pitching.

Posted by Lunch Break

11:48 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Armstrong and Lincon Suck

Posted by Seattledad

11:50 AM, Jul 07, 2008

Good stuff, my friend, I agree with you about Bedard. I think he is a bulldog, and I've seen how he battles even without his good stuff. I'm on the fence on whether we should keep or trade him. I did in the beginning, think he was a great trade, however, now I think it was not. I don't, however, support trading him now. I would wait to see what kind of a 2nd half he can produce. May be worth the risk to do so...see how he pans out after the break. Thanks.

Posted by JI

12:03 PM, Jul 07, 2008

"In a pennant race you can never have enough ace pitchers."

Tampa Bay isn't looking to add a whole lot of payroll and they aren't looking to part with their best prospects. Tampa could upgrade elsewhere for cheaper: starting pitching is one of the most overpriced and overrated quantities in baseball.

Posted by C in Oaklond

12:07 PM, Jul 07, 2008

So let me get this straight.Seattle is now sending out third string cather`s to pitch?
What an impeccable professional orinisation you guy`s are running!AhaaaaaAhaaaaa

Posted by 6killer

12:08 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Wouldn't the fact that Bedard is signed through next year give the Mariners a little more leverage?

If they don't get what they want from a trade partner, they can always take him off the table and try to trade him in the offseason.

With Sabbathia, the Indians alomost had to trade him, or get nothing in return when he walked at the end of the year.

So Pele could say I would like so and so in return, if I don't get them I won't deal Erik. A desperate playoff contender might pay that ransom.

just a thought

Posted by scrapiron

12:08 PM, Jul 07, 2008

The only hint of clubhouse turmoil around Bedard was brought up by Miguel Batista.

"Everybody else, every time they feel pain, they go on the DL, or they take a rest, and I haven't."
-Miguel Batista

He didn't mention Bedard by name, but it was obvious who he was talking about. I understand Batista was reprimanded by management for his comments as well.

Posted by NyMariner05

12:08 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Since when does Bedard never leave the clubhouse? I see him in the dugout all the time.. I saw the dude jumpin up and down when Felix hit his GS in NY.

I also disagree with the notion that the M's are filled with #3 starters..

If they roll into 2009 with Felix-Bedard-Morrow at the top of the rotation, no team in their right mind would like to see that type of stuff thrown at them in a series..

Add in a knuckballer like Dickey in the #4 hole, after trying to get a bat on Morrow's 97 mph late moving blazer, and i think our rotation could be very successful next yr..

Some of u folks are lost.. calling for a rebuilding process.. the team has 120 million dollar payroll, and if it keeps Bedard and moves Morrow to the rotation, it has a nice starting staff, and a nice bullpen..

All the new GM has to do is find 2-3 offensive upgrades to replace ultra suckkers like Sexson, Vidro, and one outfield slot..

And the next GM will have about 30-35 million dollars to make those additions via FA or trades, not to mention a Top 5 overall pick in the 09 draft..

Just a question to u rebuilding mode guys.. if u deal Bedard, you do realize the starting rotation will be hideous for quite awhile. WE have no pitching talent in the minors passed low A ball..

There is little reason to trade Bedard anytime soon, given his value right now, let the man have an offseason of rest and recovery.. and youll see the result you were all clamoring for..

The man is pitching hurt.. but still takes the ball to go out and compete.. yet u fans want to complain about the guy all day... Why? Because he's not posting a 2.50 ERA?? Please, the man is pitching at 70% and still has a 3.5 ERA..

Please find someone better to complain about every day.. that includes Mr. Geoff Baker... You havent said a decent word about Erik all yr.. yet above u are touting Washburn as an equal to Bedard.. wow, just wow.. i guess u choose to ignore the 12-13 hideous starts that WAsh had.. starts that totally buried our season.. but since he's pitched well the last 4 times, you're cool with him..

Reminds me of when Silva was garbage for like 5 weeks, then had one quality start, and u lumped him in with Felix as the pitchers doing their jobs..

Posted by NyMariner05

12:13 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Why doesnt Batista keep his mouth quiet, and try posting an ERA under 7..

I have no patience for terrible performers who make excuses.. and that is exactly what Batista is doin..

Posted by wag the dog

12:19 PM, Jul 07, 2008

No harm in fielding offers for Bedard. If you get a strong offer, go for it. If not, hold him till next year and hope you does something to convince other clubs that he's good for more than 5 innings/start.

How does the package the Brewers gave up for Sabathia rate compared to what the Mariners gave up for Bedard (factoring in contract length, that sort of thing).

Posted by meagain

12:25 PM, Jul 07, 2008

I agree that Bedard is not a wimp. I watched him pitch Friday. It's almost painful to watch him pivot back over that left hip at the top of his windup. After one particularly strenuous torquing pivot, he stopped going back so far. From there, he was pitching in trouble, and, to my eyes, in some pain. It was time for him to come out after five.

While he's not a wimp, he's not going to bring the M's much on their investment either. Mea culpa--I didn't see this coming. I just wish the guy was a little more forthcoming. Is he painfully shy, or just a gold-plated jerk? Phooey.

Posted by Cubs Fan

12:35 PM, Jul 07, 2008

We'll take him...
How about
Eric Bedard for

Rich Hill
Matt Murton
2 AA pitchers.

Posted by eastcoast

12:48 PM, Jul 07, 2008

NyMariner05: So you're telling me that the team on the field right now if just 2 or 3 "upgrades" away from competing for a division/WS title? Are you serious?

Fine, Sexson and Vidro walk. Let's even say that Washburn gets traded. Remember, these are the Seattle Mariners! Which means that Batista, Silva, and Joh will be opening day 2009 members based on contract alone. Even if you want to play in fantasy land, you still have to be realistic!

So, who are your starters?
Felix - great, #1
Bedard - if healthy, if wants to be here, if, if, if
Morrow - if he can make the transition, if he can develop his 2 and 3 pitches
RRS - again, can he transition to full time starter?
RAD - will his last three starts equate to a full season?
Batista or Silva - say Silva, the most expensive #5 starter in the game.

BP - Putz returns to 2007 form, right? Who else? Lowe (not having a very good yr), Jimenez (6 IP's does not translate to a season, RRS, Green, Rhodes?? Again, a lot of ifs.

And the offense is only 2-3 upgrades away, so says you. This is the team that scored one run vs Nate Robertson, right? The pitcher with a mid 5's ERA and who hadn't lasted more than 7IP this season, right? And where exactly are you going to get these "upgrades" that will catapult the M's to the division title next year? The minors? Uhhh, nope... try again. Free agency? Don't blow smoke up my a**, Teixeira will never come here. Try again. From trades? From whom.. Washburn??? Strike three. Let me guess... Clement, Reed, maybe Balentien, Patterson, Coco Crisp..etc will push this team to the next level.

Pleaaassseee. I agree that the M's are not as bad as they have played this year, but I also know that they are a lot farther away from being a real contender than 2-3 upgrades away than you believe. Any attempt to put of the inevitable fire sale will just further retard the development of the farm system and the entire organization.

Posted by BrianL

12:52 PM, Jul 07, 2008

So, Geoff, based on the last month worth of results we can safely say that Jarrod Washburn > Erik Bedard.

You see, this is why result-based analysis is flawed.

Posted by 6killer

1:13 PM, Jul 07, 2008

GEOFF - can you or anyone you know, give us humble bloggers an insight as to why Vidro is continuosly plugged into the cleanup spot? Is there some top secret strategy that Riggleman knows about?

Posted by nymariner05

1:17 PM, Jul 07, 2008

There are plenty of "approach guys" that if added to the core of Ichiro, Lopez, Beltre, Clement, and Betancourt could see a quick turn around..

IF the M's targetted some legit OBP guys, not just Tex, they could conceivably turn things around..

Even if they were to add Brian Giles on a short contract, Eric Hinske, and bring back Raul they would improve drastically.. then running sub .220 BA guys out there like Vidro, Sexson, Johjima, and the rotating RF's we used early in the yr..

The new GM has 35 million to spend this offseason if he chooses.. the three moves i mentioned above would barely cost u.. Im not even including FAs like Burrell, Bradlley, OHudson, Giambi, Tex, or trade possibilities such as Jason Bay or Xavier Nady, the first of which is being shopped heavily..

You telling me that if u added a Jason Giambi on a one or two yr deal, and swung a trade for Jason Bay, re-signed Raul for a yr.. this team couldnt compete:

1)Ichiro
2)Lopez
3)Giambi
4)Bay
5)Ibanez
6)Beltre
7)Clement
8)Betancourt
9)Reed

The M's are 20 games under but they arent that bad of a team.. they've had 4 blackholes in the order all yr.. those guys will all be gone... their defense was terrible.. that has changed considerably if uve watched the last two weeks of action.. the move of Reed to CF and Ichiro to RF has taken our outfield D from poor to slighly above average..

Our rotation.. u doubt Morrow.. citing the lack of secondary pitches... have u been watching him? He's shown a legit #2 and #3 pitch to go along with one of the most eletric fastballs in all of baseball..

Will he have some struggles.. or course.. will he totally baffle teams other night.. Heck yea.. Morrow has one of the best arms in baseball, he is gonna be a good starter next yr..

Dickey, any knuckballer with solid command like Dickey has will be an effective #4 starter (4.50 ERA).. over a long season, he will throw a number of quality starts simply based on the other team not being totally disciplined in the approach vs a knuckler.. or just mailing it in cause it's annoying to face..

I personally think Felix-Bedard-Morrow-Dickey is very solid group.. i guess us disagree

Pen wise.. u do realize a number of our guys in the pen are pretty good? And u do realize that Putz will be back? And that we just drafted a ML ready stud in Josh Fields..

The bullpen will be what it is now.. very very good

Posted by staboys dad

1:22 PM, Jul 07, 2008

If...Now i say if they don't have a good enough package for Bedard. What would be the harm in keeping him into the season next year?
Felix, Bedard, Morrow?, RRS?,Dickey?, D'Monte?(Spelling).

Now that would be one heck of a staff and we already have them basically signed up.

So now the focus would be what we need for OF,1b, 3rd?...

I say stick with him and worst come to worst we get a better group of players back to get our minor leagues working again, with P?

Morse, Tuiosasopo, Wlad...we need more players ready then one out of these three.

Posted by glmuskie

1:26 PM, Jul 07, 2008

NYMariner05...

LOL! Great posts!

Geoff,

Glad to see you back off the Bedard criticism a bit.

The Washburn comparison is just ridiculous, however. Give me HOF player X and scrub player Y, and I can likely find one month where they were statistically comparable.

It's not about upside. It's about the fact that Bedard is about twice the pitcher Wash is. There are maybe 10-20 pitchers who can give you the results Bedard can; there are maybe 100-200 pitchers who can give you the results Wash can. Maybe more.

The question: 'If he's hurting and going to give you Washburn-like results, why give up premium prospects for him when Washburn won't cost you any?' has an easy answer. You don't trade him, because he's a much better pitcher than Washburn. Unless an offer bowls you over. You keep the players who can get you into the playoffs & beyond.

Ask yourself this: If you are an opposing batter, who would you rather face, Bedard or Washburn? *Even if* Bedard only goes 5 innings, would you like to have 4 innings of Green-Jimenez-Morrow?

What you do is trade Washburn NOW while he has an iota of value.

'Bedard is not producing results as advertised. He came here as a guy capable of going seven innings or more. He is going five and sometimes six. That is not "ace like" any way you slice it. Something is amiss and any team trading for him will want to know what's going on.'

To that I would say, Bedard has been retiring about an mlb average # of batters each outing; has no history of being just a 5-6 inning pitcher; has had some mior injuries; and usually hands a lead over to our (outstanding) bullpen. The 5-inning thing is most likely a short-term anomaly. There is peripheral statistical evidence to support this.

Let's keep the great players here.

Posted by Brad

1:33 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Geoff, shhhhhhhhhhhhh.... Let's start talking up our guys to generate some buzz. Let's not point out weaknesses this month... All of our players are obviously studs, they just didn't mesh as a team. Right? Who's with me?

Posted by eastcoast

1:49 PM, Jul 07, 2008

So, I'll assume that Joh is now your $8 million back-up catcher. And Silva is your $12 mill #5 starter, and Batista is your $8 mill long relief man. OK?

Then what? You trade for Jason Bay. Who are you going to trade? A trade like that would have to include the remainding 1-2 blue chip prospects we have left in this organization. And then you sign FA Giambi. Now he might add some LH pop, but he is a defensive liability. Now you have three below average IF's in Lopez, Betancourt, and Giambi.

And as for pitching.. IF Bedard is healthy, IF Morrow can be as successful as a starter, IF RAD can sustain for an entire season, IF Silva doesn't get placed on the DL after gastric bypass surgery? IF Putz can regain his form? IF Jimenez can be successful over an entire season? IF we can find an eighth inning man to replace Morrow?

And if, during the course of a 162 game season, there are injuries, who then? Someone from the bench that includes WFB, Joh, etc?? Someone from the minors? Except there is no one because what few prospects you had left, you traded away for Bay! What I'm trying to say is that you would be taking a very big risk that many, many IF's will all work out in your favor. In that situation, the margin between success and failure would be razor thin. Not to mention the team would be older and the minor league system a catastrophy. That type of scenario could leave you staring up at the (gulp!) Texas Rangers for the next five years.

Posted by statboys dad

1:55 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Ny M#5...I agree with you as well..We are both on the same page. But I would like to see the M's trade rhodes and Rauuul to TB and relistickly we could have one if not both back next season?

raul would still be that positive influence as well is Rhodes.

Kicks and Giggles...What would Ichiro bring?
I have always liked Reed and having him be the lead off and Center could we have a stronger bat in right? Back to your prognosis of players available for next season?

Posted by JI

1:58 PM, Jul 07, 2008

C'mon Geoff

Earned runs? Seriously?

You honestly think that Washburn will continue this trend until the end of the season? You could have said the same thing about Silva after April.

Posted by BrianL

1:58 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Eastcoast - What if this team really is a middling .500 club that a bunch of projections placed them at? What if the talent currently assembled simply has run into bad luck/played poorly/slumped to this point?

I'm starting to think that this team isn't as bad as I originally thought, and if that's the case, then there's a chance the team can compete next season.

When you have black holes at 1B/DH/COF, your numbers take a serious hit. I think Mike did a rough projection a few weeks ago and concluded that if you replace Richie Sexson, Jose Vidro with just league-average players and replace Ibanez (by release or moving him to DH) with a league-average player, you can expect nearly a full run per game more in offense. Do that, and this club would be in the top 5 or 6 offensive teams in the game.

The results we've gotten from those three positions, particularly DH and 1B, have extremely skewed the run production for this team. The sooner we jettison Sexson and Vidro and replace them with average players, the sooner we'll see just how much they've hurt this club's offensive output. Just look at the game yesterday: Beltre was IBB'd twice to get to Sexson, who responded with a resounding 0-6 performance.

Don't underestimate just how bad Sexson and Vidro are. They're below -replacement level-. That means they're playing worse than a random body in AAA. That's really, really bad.

Replace those two with just league average players and the offensive numbers improve dramatically.

Posted by Kelly

2:00 PM, Jul 07, 2008

I'd take Price straight up for Bedard in a heartbeat. I'd even send cash if they'll throw in a guy who will enable Morrow to move to the rotation.

Bedard is only worth a AA prospect, though a supremely talented one.

Posted by BrianL

2:02 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Tampa Bay is not going to depart with Price.

Posted by dave from the coast

2:12 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Knowing the way that the M's trade, if Bedard ever gets dealt, the M's most likely would settle for three over-the-hill prospects from a far-away farm club, and a couple of pitchers who had runs of mild success 4 or 5 seasons ago, but who lately have been used to eat up innings when their team was behind by 5 runs before the middle of the game had been reached. Wait, that sounds like this season...

Posted by Top pick in 09 draft

2:25 PM, Jul 07, 2008

NYMariner: Morrow is in a very good role right now as a lights-out closer where he can use his heater and offspeed pitch for 1-2 innings max. I think the M's see this as his role, given his health history and medical condition, which may limit his stamina. Moving him into the starting rotation would eventually decrease his velocity within a few years - think Justin Verlander who threw 100mph for a couple of years and is now down to below 95mph even though he is relatively young. I'd rather have a top-flight closer for the next 1/2 dozen years rather than a good sp for the next two years or so. Morrow's emergence gives the M's a valuable trading chip in JJ, if he can prove he is still healthy. Josh Fields can then come up in a setup role by early next season.

Posted by scrapiron

2:29 PM, Jul 07, 2008

How about moving Ibanez to first, Balentien to left and Victor Diaz to DH? I guarantee they would be an upgrade over Sexson and Vidro. Give them the rest of the season to see if that team on the field is enough to field a competetive team. If that doesn't help, you know you're farther away than you think and it's time to completely rebuild.

Posted by BrianL

2:36 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Morrow's skillset is wasted in the bullpen. He's got a plus fastball and a plus changeup. If he can do any work with his slider in the off-season, he will be a good #3 pitcher. Further development could turn him into a #2 type pitcher.

Posted by scrapiron

3:01 PM, Jul 07, 2008

It's a small sample set, but to back up Geoff's point, since June 1st, Erik Bedard has been Dominant in 33% of his starts, a Distaster in 33% of his starts. Jarrod Washburn has been Dominant in 50% of his starts, and had no Disaster starts.

PQS Ratings
Erik Bedard
6/3 - 0
6/8 - 3
6/14 - 4
6/20 - 0
6/29 - 2
7/4 - 4

Jarrod Washburn
6/2 - 2
6/9 - 4
6/15 - 2
6/21 - 3
6/27 - 4
7/2 - 4

Posted by BrianL

3:14 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Does anyone here really think Jarrod Washburn is going to sustain this kind of performance?

Posted by drake

3:30 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Only if he continues to face weak offenses.

Posted by dc

3:36 PM, Jul 07, 2008

I just don't understand why the hell Sexson is still on this team. It makes no sense at all.

Posted by ken

3:44 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Rumblings are that Philly is seriously looking to make a play for Bedard - I don't think the M's could get much for Bedard, at the most probably Brett Myers and Carlos Carrasco, their top pitching prospect. Myers possibly could resurrect his career with a change in scenery. Looking at the bright side of the Bedard trade, if the M's hadn't made it, we would still have Bavasi around as GM and by extension, Mac also. The Bedard trade is the final straw that forced the M's to make an in-season firing for the first time in 20 years. If Bavasi were still GM, there would be no organized approach to rebuilding and the young players who are now bringing new energy would still be either on the bench or down with Tacoma. Joh would still be the regular catcher rather than sittiing on the bench where he belongs.

Posted by Aaron

3:55 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Nobody's trading anyone....not at least until new ownership......

Posted by DHR

4:01 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Geoff - Don't forget the 'player to be named later" in the CC trade to Milwaukee. More than likely the Brewers will be giving up Green or Brantley which would essentially make them the second best prospect in the deal. Not what i'd call filler.

Posted by oldiecoach

4:16 PM, Jul 07, 2008

According to Bob Kemp, radio sports talk show host, here in Phoenix, he says that the Phillies will now pursue Bedard, now that they've signed Lidge. Bob(I called him today, to get his opinion on Riggleman-he's a big Riggleman supporter)on where this left Bedard now that the Brewers had gotten Sabatha(spell). Bob indicated that the Phillies were looking to see where their payroll was after resigning LIdge....now, he says, they will make an attempt at Bedard.

Posted by chipkw

4:26 PM, Jul 07, 2008

I think they should definently trade Sexson and also maybe look at trading Washburn,but keep Bedard at least the rest of the season and part of next to see if he improves.

Posted by Nymariner05

5:05 PM, Jul 07, 2008

1)Phillies got little of interest when you're talking farm system.. Carrasco is their best spect and at best he's a #3..

Eastcoast..

You are expecting the worst from everyone.. so i cant even debate u... u think nobody is gonna perform, everyone who can get injured will, etc..

Jason Bay is a FA after 09.. Pirates have McLouth, Nady, and one of the best OF prospects in the game, ready to break in...

Bay must be traded... he's blocking their best spect, and he's gonna be a FA after next yr...

Yea, you're gonna have to give up a couple good prospects.. big deal..

And you know what.. forget Bay if u dont wanna trade any more prospects..

M's could make a series of short term deals 1-4 yrs... and come away with Giambi, Milton Bradley, and Eric Hinske..

Would that maKe u happy.. u dont have to shell out mega bucks for a guy like Burrell or Dunn or Tex... u dont have to shell out mega yrs.. and u dont have to trade..

You can add three high OBP players, all battting from the left side (Milton a switch), to fit in perfectly at Safeco..

And if u like Wlad Balentein, u can use him in LF vs lefties, and have Hinske on the pine, and BRadley at DH..

Let me guess, u dont like those moves either.. cause Giambi is too slow at 1B, Bradley is mean, and Hinske is kinda fat...

Seriously, u could land those players and the entire team gets a face lift and offense becomes explosive..

Are any of those three players outside the M's financial capabilities?

Posted by NyMariner05

5:18 PM, Jul 07, 2008

By the way, im not sayin those would be my signings.. but just tryin to show that offensive upgrades are gonna be out there... and not all of them are named Mark Texieria.. and not all of them require 6-7 yr deals at 100 million

Posted by John

5:29 PM, Jul 07, 2008

I agree with most people on this blog ... now is NOT the time to trade Bedard. If he has a really strong, injury-free second half he becomes much more valuable during the winter meetings. I think you can put him out there this trade deadline, and maybe somebody gets desperate and makes a strong bid for him, but I don't think you make a move unless you get a really great offer.
I would even be fine with having him in the rotation at the start of next year. I know I may be in the minority, but I still believe with Felix, Bedard and Morrow at the top of your rotation, you've got a pretty strong pitching staff.

I love the way Jeremy Reed is playing, and he gives you an in-house option in the outfield, with the benefit of strong defense.
If we improve first base and left field this offseason, I don't see any reason why we can't pull back into contention.
Especially if Clement develops into a force with his bat.

If, by midway through 2009 you're not in contention, then you trade Bedard and probably Beltre to keep adding more young pieces.

P.S. You couldn't trade Sexson for a bag of rocks.

Posted by John

5:34 PM, Jul 07, 2008

I will say this. The CC trade puts a lot of pressure on teams like Chicago and St. Louis. If either of those teams starts to slip in the pitching department, I can see them making a strong run at someone like Bedard. If that happens, you have to listen - especially if it means getting a really good outfield or first base prospect.

Posted by John

5:41 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Since I seem to be out here all alone, I'll add this. If the front office does not trade Washburn right now - given the way he's been pitching - they are absolute fools, which they've already made a strong case for unfortunately.
His value will never be higher. He's getting older and I would think an NL team could get some real value out of him.

Posted by scrapiron

5:57 PM, Jul 07, 2008

From what I hear, the Phillies, Cubs, Yankees and Rays are interested in Bedard. Good. Sit back and let the bidding war begin. Don't think that you have to make a deal, we can certainly use him next year and are in no rush.

Phillies: Don't forget Shane Victorino and Jason Werth. They are oveloaded in the outfield and will have to deal one of those two. Brett Myers, Carlos Carrasco. You're getting warm....

Posted by Tacoma Rain

5:59 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Sign Bedard NOW.
Bedard would be a bargain at 4 years / $48 mil like they gave Silva...and Bedard has to be worried that he may never get a better deal.

Posted by glmuskie

5:59 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Of course the Phillies are interested in Bedard. Gillick is brilliant and knows an undervalued baseball player when he sees one. He also knows he can use his influence w/ the M's brass to steal Bedard from us for a song.

Pelekoudas... just say no!

Posted by Tacoma Rain

6:02 PM, Jul 07, 2008

All Bedard is interested in is MONEY...and the Mariners have been and will be again fools with their money
so why not sign Bedard, and save something from this deal.

Posted by glmuskie

6:03 PM, Jul 07, 2008

BTW,

The interest that Bedard is getting now will likely be about the same level of interest in him next year at the trading deadline. Lefty ace starting pitchers are one of the rarest commodities in baseball.

Posted by bikeman

8:10 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Chuck,

There was no mention of Bulldog no matter how you want to spin any verbiage on the subject.

"The only rap on Bedard last summer winter was the writers in Baltimore didn't like him and that he was injury prone."

Sorry, I completely disagree. Bedard was throroughly jeered, pre-trade for his lack of reaching 200 innings in a season and part of the criticism was directed to his desire to come back and pitch, and whether he would have be willing if he were a Blue Jay instead of an Oriole.

The 200 inning criticism was repeated over and over, sometimes questioning his toughness and his desire. Where have you seen him being specifically decribed as a Bulldog?

Posted by joey

9:36 PM, Jul 07, 2008

Geoff: You are so wrong in your analysis it is not funny. Your baseball analysis is not the only thing that is shaky; your writing is not up to standards. Did the Canadian schools not teach the subjunctive mood as part of a formal English (grammar) class? Some examples follow: If I were; I wish I were; if it were; etc.
Washburn is terrible. So are you. Please bring back Larry Stone or Jose Romero. At least they are credible and coherent. What a concept! They can also construct a sentence that is syntactically and grammatically correct. I am sorry. I forgot. You were educated in Canada just as your buddy, Bedard, was. By the way, you and Bedard also have the same people skills. Cíest dommage!

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