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Geoff Baker covers the Mariners for The Seattle Times. He provides daily coverage of the team throughout spring training, and during the season.

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July 8, 2008 10:03 PM

M's lose really quickly

Posted by Geoff Baker

Not much to say about this game, a 2-0 loss to the Oakland Athletics in which the M's tallied just two hits. A Richie Sexson double in the fifth and a Miguel Cairo single in the sixth. Justin Duchscherer went the distance on 105 pitches, allowing just two hits. Faced only 30 batters.

Game time was one hour, 49 minutes. That's the shortest game time-wise the M's have played all year. It was only 10 minutes slower than the team's quickest game ever on the road.

The Mariners have scored just four runs in their last 33 innings. They've tallied zero runs in their last 17 frames. This game was so fast, I don't even have time to put up a post-game photo. Sorry about that. You didn't miss much.

Three losses in a row by the M's. More tough luck for Carlos Silva, who needed only 94 pitches to get through eight innings. That's back-to-back complete games by starters. But it doesn't matter. Well, it might matter a bit in the long run. Here's why.

Silva has been working all year to figure out why his sinker isn't working the way he'd like. It isn't sinking much. That's a big reason why he needed 100 pitches to get through five innings against the Tigers last Thursday.

It turns out, Silva made a between-starts mechanical adjustment. Pitching coach Mel Stottlemyre, an ex-sinkerballer himself, felt Silva was squeezing the ball too hard. So, instead of holding his hands up near his chest as he began his windup -- which Silva felt caused his arms to press together and his fingers to grip the ball tighter -- he held them at waist level tonight.

"We've been trying so many things,'' Silva said of the work he's done between starts with Stottlemyre. "We've been working so hard.''

Silva had even apologized to Stottlemyre after one recent loss, figuring all his hard work had been wasted by a poor outing.

Silva needed a few innings to get used to the mechanical change tonight. Unfortunately for him, that's when all the game's runs were scored. But a team needs to score to win. That's not his fault. By the middle innings, though, he felt as relaxed on the mound as he has all season.

And now that he's got a complete-game under his belt, Silva hopes he can be more like the pitcher the M's thought they were getting when they signed him to that four-year, $48-million deal.

"Five innings, 100 pitches, that's not me,'' Silva said.

Silva has thrown a team-high 112 2/3 innings this season, so the longevity is there. It's just the quality of some of those innings that's been lacking. Take Silva's innings and Erik Bedard's stinginess over short periods and you'd have the perfect ace.


For the moment, manager Jim Riggleman has had consecutive complete games tossed by Jarrod Washburn and now Silva.

"I don't know of a situation where a starter's thrown two complete games in a row and you lose both of them,'' Mariners manager Jim Riggleman said. "You might get one of those a year, but certainly not two in a row.''

Well, they've got 'em.

We know, this offense needs work. A lot of work. For now, Riggleman -- unable to hit for his team -- is just looking for clean games. He got one tonight. The M's didn't blow chances to win this game, unlike in Monday's opener. They didn't really have any chances to blow. Duchscherer was outstanding. He threw strikes early in the count, but mixed his pitches well. He'd throw the odd 94 mph fastball to keep the M's honest, but was more pitcher than thrower in this one.

On Seattle's part, they didn't give away chances to the A's either. Hey, it's a start. It's all he's looking for at the moment until this team makes some moves and figures out who's going to be on the team moving forward.

"We want to take care of the little things,'' he said. "The details of the game. And when we do and the hitters start hitting, we'll start winning games.''

Silva will be a part of this team moving forward. With his contract, he'll be here a long time. So, any progress on that front is poisitive news for the team.

The rest of it? You've got to score to win. Not much trickier than that.


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Posted by ethan

9:00 PM, Jul 08, 2008

"brain-dead Carribean, Japanese, Euro-Mutt hitters hacking at slop nightly."

Posted by cesame

9:05 PM, Jul 08, 2008

Bloomquist batting 2nd, Vidro batting 4th, Cairo playing.

I wonder why the offense sucked tonight. Hmmm.

Posted by drake

9:07 PM, Jul 08, 2008

Any pitcher would salivate seeing Bloomquist and Vidro at the top and Cairo at the bottom. Not to take anything away from Duchscherer, but man... how does Riggleman hand in that lineup card without a towel to go with it?

Posted by drake

9:09 PM, Jul 08, 2008

not to duplicate what cesame just wrote, of course ;)

Posted by Lenny Randle's Breath

9:09 PM, Jul 08, 2008

I would like them to get some offense at this point. Hopefully they shake things up. At this point it's obvious that the problem is this combination of players. Please do something. No fun watching.

Posted by My Oh My

9:13 PM, Jul 08, 2008

I thought it was funny that the A's were trying to bunt a runner over in the 8th to try to get an insurance run. Didn't they know that 1 run was enough and 2 runs was a huge hole for the M's. What a lineup they put out there today. How many other teams look at Vidro at the cleanup spot and just laugh their asses off. Can't hit for avg or power, but still finds his way into that spot. There are no explanations.

Posted by jfr1979

9:14 PM, Jul 08, 2008

Please stop playing Cairo, Vidro, Sexson, Bloomquist. What is the point? It would be better to let the whole farm team to come and join the roster. Why are they doing this? It's so bloody ridiculous. Balentin, Lahair, Rob Johnson, Jimenez...bring these guys up.

Posted by wag the dog

9:15 PM, Jul 08, 2008

Yeah, this team is just a piece or two away from contending. Lets sit tight and see what happens.

Two hits? Game over in under two hours? How do fans go about getting their money back?

Posted by Chopper58

9:19 PM, Jul 08, 2008

I called it before the beginning of the game for the shutout. Looks like I was regrettably right

Posted by Nat

9:28 PM, Jul 08, 2008

To the guy calling for the kids to come up- I just think the FO is flying by the seat of their collective pants. "Should we do... this? Should we do...that? What do you think? Got any ideas, Riggs?"

They have no clue what they're doing!!!

What a mess. I stopped watching at the end of the 4th. Just can't put myself through it...

What???? Riggleman says, "They're not hitting, but...I can live with that." Oh please...

Posted by tom

9:34 PM, Jul 08, 2008

Stop crying you all little babies. It´s a heck of a game, a duel between the best pitcher (1.96) and the worst (5.85)

Posted by Dave from the Coast

9:48 PM, Jul 08, 2008

I decided to park at an ocean overlook and listen to tonight's game. An hour and forty-nine minutes. A complete-game shutout by a pitcher who doesn't exactly have anything resembling High Heat. The M's lose another one. 5 minutes later, the Sun Set Over The Ocean. My conclusion? The Mariners couldn't WAIT to lose this one. Meantime, "Left-hander Eric Bedard" gave an interview to a Philadelphia Radio Station. He said he'd be glad to go wherever he's shipped. So I guess the M's would be glad to ship him. Bedard says he "doesn't know why" he's not going deep into games. The radio announcer was falling all over himself, quaking with breathless anticipation at the prospect of Bedard coming to Philly and being the Phill's "2nd guy". Now, who says Baseball ain't a soap-opera?

Posted by scottM

9:50 PM, Jul 08, 2008

6:41 post by Chopper58:

"What a crap lineup full of holes:
Cairo,
Vidro,
Sexson and
(maybe Willie B)

I'm calling it now. A complete game shutout for Duchscherer who is a legitimate Cy Young contendor."

Hey Chopper, buy a Lotto ticket tonight! Nice call.

Posted by scottM

9:53 PM, Jul 08, 2008

How many Cy Young contenders will this potent M's offense need to face this season? It's just not fair.

Posted by JP

10:07 PM, Jul 08, 2008

Hey Geoff Baker I feel for you man....watching this crap everynight? At least i can change the channell. You are stuck trying to reinvent the wheel every night with the thesarus in hand; trying to come up with a new adjetive for suck. I hope you are well compensated. Keep up the uh eh good work. I bet you are really looking foward to traveling to KC this weekend. Hey i have question for you that you can ask Ichiro. When he gets to these places that are hot how does he keep his humidor from overheating and ruining his precious singles makers (Bats)

Posted by scrapiron

10:10 PM, Jul 08, 2008

Meanwhile the A's trade away their ace because he's injury-prone and build for the future. And they're still in the pennant race!

Our injury-prone ace now isn't going to pitch until after the all star break. Maybe Bedard, Sexson and Vidro can put together a great second half. bleah. This is getting old.

Like Geoff said: "But it doesn't matter."

Posted by scrapiron

10:13 PM, Jul 08, 2008

I do have good news, though. Dennis Raben, our 2nd round pick out of U of Miami is 10-12 down at Everett. Can't believe he's already signed and playing. That was quick, and he's tearing it up!

For some reason, we haven't signed our #1 pick Josh Fields. I wonder what's going on there?

Posted by NB

10:14 PM, Jul 08, 2008

"They didn't really have any chances to blow"

And yet blow they do.

Posted by greyguy

10:18 PM, Jul 08, 2008

Can you ask Riggleman why he's batting Vidro 4th? On what planet does that make sense?

Posted by last rites

10:21 PM, Jul 08, 2008

The Ms ran a lineup out there tonight featuring only three batters hitting over .255 and four others hitting UNDER .225.

Does Riggleman really need to think about why there is a zero up on the board in Oakland? Please.

Posted by Scott

10:32 PM, Jul 08, 2008

What is management's love affair with Vidro? Cut the guy or at least have him bat 8th or 9th. It's really sad when you can't come up with a better cleanup option than a .214 hitter.

Meanwhile, Jose Guillen is 3rd in the AL in RBI.... we didn't need his bat anyway.

Posted by GeoW

10:37 PM, Jul 08, 2008

Geoff - Does Bedard go on the DL, retroactive to 7/4, when Felix comes off the DL? The 15-day minimum would match pretty well with when he is next scheduled to pitch. Or would formally putting him on the DL hinder developing a good trade for him?

Posted by AKMarinersFan

10:37 PM, Jul 08, 2008

Hmm. Silva's success related to facing one of the worst offensive clubs in baseball? Well next to the Mariners offense I mean. Silva faces a good club, he will suck.

Posted by drlo

10:38 PM, Jul 08, 2008

Scrapiron, I think Josh Fields is represented by Scott Boras. If so, that would perhaps explain what is going on with Fields, and suggest we may need patience on this one.

Posted by Walla Walla Girl

10:46 PM, Jul 08, 2008

No offense tonight. Same old, same old. It's tiresome. Will the powers-that-be do anything to fix this problem? In my lifetime?

Jose Guillen is on the all-star ballot, but hey, there's only room for one all-star on our team.

At least the pitching has been good. As Geoff said, "You've got to score to win."

Posted by Lance

11:09 PM, Jul 08, 2008

Mechanical adjustments aside, I'll be more impressed when Carlos can show he can be effective again in a ballpark other than the pitching paradise of McAfee Stadium.

Unfortunately, this team's free swinging ways makes it nearly impossible to score even a run when an opposing pitcher is on his game. Some guys really do need to be sent packing before things can get better offensively, be it Tacoma or another big league team.

Posted by Bill

11:09 PM, Jul 08, 2008

My observations:


1. The M's were no match for Duchscherer. The guy's only allowed more than 2 ER's in a game once all season. He 1-hit the Red Sox last month. I wonder why the A's kept him in their bullpen for so long.


2. No use blaming Silva for this one.


3. Vidro at cleanup = barf. No answers yet from Geoff on why Vidro is batting 4th. Actually, why VIdro is still on the roster is beyond me. At least Cairo can play in the field.

Posted by Lance

11:18 PM, Jul 08, 2008

scrapiron, Isn't Fields a Scotto client? I think he is. That might answer your question.

Posted by Oly Mike

11:20 PM, Jul 08, 2008

Whether Bedard goes or stays probably won't make much of a difference because other than Felix the Mariner starting rotation is just plain bad. So lets say Bedard goes we still have Washburn, Silva and Batista. Do you really want these bums to stay? These 3 losers are responsible for most of the teams losses this year!!! As I have said before regardless of contract stipulations, amount of money they are being paid and what value you might get in return. These 3 lousy pitchers as well as Sexson, Vidro and Johjima need to get out of Seattle as soon as possible. I believe that with this infamous 6 gone the team will improve significantly.. With replacements for these 6 losers we won't have to worry about Bloomquist, Cairo and Burke playing so often because they will be on the bench awiting to come in to give someone a break rather than trying to be a full time starter.

Posted by dumb bloggers

11:54 PM, Jul 08, 2008

Yeah scott and in 2 years when guillen sucks and we're saddled with a 12 million dollar POS..Shut bthe Fu..%$ up

Posted by Carlos

11:58 PM, Jul 08, 2008

well, you look at the Mariners lineups the past few days and it is easy to see why they can't score runs.

Come on, there has got to be a AAA player or hell even a freakin AA player that can produce as bad as Vidro. This is becoming a joke! The other teams must look at out lineup, then just laugh and laugh and laugh. Vidro batting cleanup. What a joke. WTF?

Posted by scottM

12:33 AM, Jul 09, 2008

"in 2 years when guillen sucks and we're saddled with a 12 million dollar"

I'm virtually certain that Jose Guillen would have signed a two year deal with the M's (instead of the 3 yr deal he got with KC) if the price had been right and the M's had shown interest. Even Bavasi admitted that not re-signing him was a mistake.

I agree that big dollar, long term contracts (Vidro/Sexson/Washburn/Silva) have hurt the M's by tying our hands with sub-par performers. I'd rather see the team pay a premium for fewer years, unless it's someone like Felix.

Posted by Chuck Armstrong is a Tool

12:35 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Hey Geoff -

I appreciate all your efforts...

I would like to ask one question, please.

And that question is....

WHAT THE F*** IS THIS FO'S PROBLEM, HUH?!
SERIOUSLY.
ITS TIME FOR US TO KNOW...
ARE THEY STUPID OR JUST PLAIN RETARDED?

Thank you, and have a good night.

Posted by C.J.

2:50 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Say what you will about Silva.But he is a gamer who truly seems to care about the game and not just his money.His attitude is refreshing.True he is a #4 starter at best,but we need more guy`s like him in the clubhouse let alone Baseball.
oh Yea,Armstrong and Lincon still Suck.

Posted by C.J.

3:00 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Will all you idiot`s please quit calling for Johima to be traded.he was signed by Lincon Armstron who want to keep him for the japanese revanue dollars.Are you blogger`s really thats tupid as to thin they would trade a guy they just gave a 36 lillion contract too? Wake up.Get a girlfriend or boyfriend and get a life.East coast baseball fan`s would laugh at your ignorence.

Posted by TomSunWa

7:03 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Any chance Bedard has pitched his last 5 innings for the Mariners?

Posted by Amanda

7:31 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Why is it that these blog comments only have NEGATIVE posts on it? Just curious?

Its odd, how when Sexson strikes out, You all are all over him, saying, Trade him, Realease him, but when he is the ONLY friggen batter to get on base, YOU all say NOTHING! Eating your words now huh?????

Posted by downonstrikes

8:08 AM, Jul 09, 2008

No Amanda, Richie doesn't deserve praise for one lousy hit. He, along with the other slumping hitters need too feel the fan's pressure and anger. Richie is making $15.5 million dollars. One hit does not make this expenditure worthwhile.

Vidro again in cleanup. Seriously, this is the worst lineup move in the majors.

The FO is inept!

Posted by Chris from Bothell

8:08 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Silva seems to have more personal responsibility, work ethic and effort than half the Ms. Just needs to work on that winning thing. Run support sure would help.

Again, even though the ASB would be a perfect time to dump players, eat contracts and call up AAA guys to get a long look at them... I'm sure nothing will change, and the purgatory Ms fans have been in for weeks will continue through to September. Bah.

Posted by BrianL

8:08 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Sexson has no bat-speed and has a hard time catching up to a major-league fastball these days. If he has any success, it's more likely due to dumb luck than any repeatable skill. His defense is terrible, he has little command of the strike zone, and is an overpaid waste of a roster spot.

We've talked about this ad-nauseum.

Posted by BrianL

8:12 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Silva's sinker actually had -less- movement on ityesterday than it has all season. According to PitchF/X, his sinking fastball had 5.8 inches of vertical drop.

His season average was 6.6.

If this new pitching mechanic change did anything, it made his sinker worse, but that's been masked by the fact he's facing an Oakland lineup that can't hit to save their lives.

Posted by downonstrikes

8:15 AM, Jul 09, 2008

I agree with Chris and CJ that Silva is a gamer and at least shows he is alive out in the field. This team has lacked passion since day one this year and the results show this graphically. Keep it up Carlos. What pitcher wouldn't develop mechanical problems if he lost due to poor hitting and fielding behind him each outing? Felix, Raul, and Willie demonstrate competitiveness as well, but that sure leaves lots to be desired.

When a team consistently plays its utility players as starters you know there is no hope for years to come. Bavasi has left Seattle with legacy of losing.

Posted by PayClayBennett

8:33 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Dave from the Coast - you ever watch Duchscherer pitch? Don't know where you come from, but 94MPH is heat, especially when mixed with 75-85MPH junk - junk for strikes. This kids kicks back in the rocking chair and just gets outs. He's 6-2 in his last 8 starts and one loss he gave up2 runs, in the other he gave up 1. You don't score on Duchscherer - plain and simple.

105 pitches, less than 2 hours....that's why Harden was expendable and he doesn't get hurt. I'd take Duchscherer over anyone but Felix and Morrow on the whole M's staff. Wish I was an A's fan.....

Posted by rob in richmond (eastcoast)

8:34 AM, Jul 09, 2008

I don't want to sound like Chicken Little, but it certainly feels as if the sky is falling on Mariner baseball.

I heard about the Rich Harden trade on the way home from work yesterday. Then proceeded to watch the M's go down quietly again, and felt zero emotion. I started thinking:

The Angels have one of the best starting staffs in baseball (even with Escobar on the DL), a competent GM, and an well-constructed ine-up (with speed and power and defense), and plenty of money to boot.

The A's have one of the games best GM's for a small market team. This yr alone, they have traded 2 TOR pitchers along with Gaudin, Swisher, Crosby, Kotsay, etc.. and can still field a much better product than the M's. Plus they have saturated their minor leagues with incredible talent.

The Rangers have one of the most formidable line-ups in baseball. They have no pitching, true, but were still a .500 club last I checked (and fun to watch).

The M's just keep running out the same retreads game after game. We have 6 guys on our roster (Vidro, Sexson, Joh, Batista, Wash, and Silva) who are scheduled to make ~55 mill this yr, who we can't get anyone to take off our hands. We have 2 guys, Cairo and Bloom, who have plenty of heart but no MLB quality talent. And we have to keep playing these guys because we have no one in the minor leagues who is ready to step in. We had an incompetent GM, and now have a FO paralyzed with indecision. And we, as fans, have no choice but to take it becasue we love M's baseball.

This is not bitching, complaining, or negativity... these are the facts. The future of this team is looking bleaker every day, and the time to start making changes is now. We stand pat while other teams look to improve. The more I think about it, the more strongly I feel that a complete and total dismantling of this team is necessary. Rebuild, not re-tool.

Posted by mark

8:34 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Hey C.J. I got two words for you: Spell check.

Posted by Top pick in 09 draft

8:45 AM, Jul 09, 2008

FO is paralyzed by indecision because Pelekoudas probably can't make a phone call w/o running it by either Armstrong or Lincoln, both of whom are desperate to look good to Mr. Yamauchi so they won't get canned. I think Bonehead Bill's firing came as a direct result of intervention from Mr. Y - remember Armstrong had been quoted a couple of weeks before the firing that Bonehead was part of the solution, not the problem. M's fans owe the Nationals a big thank-you! With the front-office with a caretaker GM, I don't expect to see any major trades for the remainder of the season - perhaps a minor move with Rhodes but nothing major involving the big trading chips (Bedard,perhaps JJ & Beltre).

Posted by NewFan

9:08 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Batista starting tonight - good thing I actually have something else to do tonight.

Posted by AndruV

9:16 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Say what you want about Silva. He is one mighty mediocre pitcher making a ton of money and eating very well.

Posted by scrapiron

9:37 AM, Jul 09, 2008

We need a new GM now!
Keeping Bedard on the roster this season might be a good thing. Remember, he'll be in a contract year next year, and will probably pitch his butt off to get the big bucks from someone in 2010. He can relax all he wants this season, but next year will be a 6-month tryout for all the teams.

We've got a GM that can't even make the obvious moves of releasing Sexson and Vidro. Do you really want his first transaction as a GM ever to be the blockbuster Erik Bedard trade? Not me.

Josh Fields is represented by Scott Boras, thanks for the news guys. So our rookie GM is having difficulties working with Boras to get Fields in the fold as well. Surprise.

Quite frankly, I have zero confidence in anything positive being done with the Mariners as long as we have an interim GM. I heard the Kim Ng interview on KJR yesterday. She continues to impress me. Reminds me of how a good GM should handle things. We need a new GM NOW!

Posted by Oly Mike

9:37 AM, Jul 09, 2008

The reason why this blog exists is because Geoff Baker has taken the time and effort to ensure that it exists and continues. The next thing to remember is that it is an “Opinion Blog”. And everyone is entitled to their opinion. Especially Geoff since he is the Moderator and creator of this blog. Without him we wouldn’t have this blog where we all state our opinions and vent our frustrations. Geoff’s commentary stimulates active debate. Maybe, without Geoff’s bog we would have another blog, such as the USSM blog but not the Seattle Times Mariners blog. Remember Rule#1 of this blog “Help us maintain civil and mature comment threads”!!!! So all the profanity, cursing, name-calling, derogatory personal attacks are unwarranted and unwanted. As in any civil discourse those that resort to profanity and personal attacks usually lack substance in their argument and have no strong foundation or skill in presenting their views or opinions. Again this is an opinion blog!!! If it wasn’t and it actually represented the mandate of the people (fans) maybe we could expect Mariner management to react and actually change something in response to our comments.
Again what I have stated this blog is my opinion and you may agree or disagree and that is ok with me and to use a worn out tired cliché we will have to: “Mutually agree to disagree”, but please refrain from personal attacks and casting dispersions on everyone on this blog by carte blanche calling fellow bloggers idiots etc., etc. Finally, back to the Mariner discussion at hand I agree with ScottM and others that the “Bonehead” moves by Bavasi have tied the Mariners hands and we are most likely stuck with losers like Silva and Johjima because of contracts and Big Money, but that does not mean that they are not a detriment to this team and I believe (opinion) the Mariners would be better off without them. You see what I also believe is that we have too many so-called “gamers” on this team but we actually need is “WINNERS”.

Posted by Adam

9:53 AM, Jul 09, 2008

In light of the Sabathia and Harden trades, it is time to evaluate the Bedard trade and just how awful it really was.

For Sabathia, the Brewers gave up one stud prospect (LaPorta), and three middle-of-the-road players. However, we should take into account the fact that CC is basically a rental.

The Harden deal is more comparable to the Bedard deal because Harden, like Bedard, is controlled through 2009 and has an injury history (worse than Bedard's, for sure). The A's got four decent players, but no real stars. According to reports I've read, Gallagher could be a #3 starter at best, Murton may be a serviceable OF, but can't hit RH pitching, Patterson can't play a good 2B and doesn't have a good bat, and the minor-league C is having a bad year in low-A, even though he's old for that league.

Meanwhile, the Mariners gave up one of the best relievers in baseball, a top-10 prospect (Jones-whom I'd much rather have than LaPorta), two promising young pitchers who could end up being a #2 (Tillman) and a #3 (Butler), as well as a 6' 8" reliever who did well in AAA last year even though he was young for that league.

It's a package that, at the time, was far superior to the one the A's got.

And from what I've read, there is a consensus that the package which the Orioles got for Bedard trumped the Johan Santana package. So, at the time of the trade, there's little question that Bavasi got fleeced.


But what about now? How's the trade turning out? Is Bedard exceeding expectations? Or are the players we gave up performing so poorly that we got a break?


Bedard has been a shell of his 2007 self. Last year, his K/9 was a very strong 10.93. This year - 8.00. Last year, his BB/9 was 2.82. This year - 4.11. His GB/FB rate from last year was 1.37. This year - .94. This year, his velocity is down on both his FB and CB. Last year he pitched 182 innings. This year, he's on pace for 146.

So, as we all know, Bedard hasn't even met expectations. What about the players we gave up?


George Sherrill is second in all of baseball with 27 saves, getting more than a K per inning. He's still probably better suited as a LH specialist, as he dominates LH hitters, but he's definitely pitching as well as last year, if not better.

Adam Jones is quietly putting together a strong season. He's now putting up a 93 OPS+. Since June 1, he's put up the following line: .336/.366/.472. And he's playing an outstanding CF for the Orioles. And did I mention that he's 22?

Chris Tillman is either the youngest or second-youngest pitcher in AA. He's 7-2 with a 3.08 ERA and 81 Ks and 38 BBs in 79 IP. That's pretty good for a 20 year-old in AA.

Tony Butler is also 20, in A ball. He's got 44 Ks and only 11 BBs in 55 IP, showing much improvement with his control. His ERA is at 4.27. Definitely improved over last season.

Kameron Mickolio is the only player we gave up who has regressed. He's 24 at AA after pitching in Tacoma last year. He's got a 37/20 K/BB rate in 36 IP. His ERA is close to 5. But he was the least consequential player in the deal.

In sum, there's no question that the Bedard deal has been a bust on many levels. That's not a controversial statement - most here would probably agree. Now that Bedard is hurt, his trade value is even worse. There's little chance we get even 60 cents on the dollar if we trade him before the deadline. Best to hold onto him and hope he builds up his value to the point that we can get a good package during the offseason.


It's just too bad we can't have Sherrill, Jones, Tillman, and Butler in the fold as part of the rebuilding effort, rather than a damaged Bedard.

Posted by Ryan

10:09 AM, Jul 09, 2008

For most of the year Silva hasn't been very good, but we can't blame him for the loss last night. It's not his fault that our offense can't score. I'd take that line from him for the rest of the year and be happy with it.

Posted by wag the dog

10:10 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Something else that might factor into how the Mariners approach their roster - what it takes to resign Felix. And I'm not talking about money. Back up the Brinks truck and you're good on that front. I'm talking about talent. The Mariners aren't the only team that will wave huge dollars in Felix's face. So what else are we offering besides the feel good opportunity to stay with your first major league team?

If the Mariners sit tight and make only small tweaks to the roster, I don't see Felix re-signing. From what I can tell he's done most everything that has been asked of him. He's in better shape. He's more focused. He brings fire/passion to the mound. Doesn't he want to be surrounded by other players with the same fitness, focus and fire? That is not this Mariner team.

How many times has a good/great Felix start gone to waste due to a mediocre effort from the offense/defense? Can't score runs. Can't field in a way that rewards pitchers for making good pitches. How appealing can that possibly be to a dominant guy like Felix who is made less dominant by the crap players around him?

A serious commitment to rebuilding, to getting rid of the terrible contracts (and the terrible players attached to them) and infusing the team with youth, power and leadership would go a long way to demonstrating to Felix that the Mariners want to win and not just make money off the Seattle and Japanese fans.

Posted by Ryan

10:15 AM, Jul 09, 2008

How ironic that the only two hits last night come from Sexson and Cairo!! I don't think anyone else showed up.

Posted by pbk13

10:49 AM, Jul 09, 2008

I suggest a lawsuit, just like the one against the Sonics.

One Seattle team left town. The other Seattle team has lost its mind. To bat Vidro at cleanup is worse than a joke. This team is NOT trying to win. To at Cairo or Bloomquist second is ridiculously dumb.

This team claims it is a major league baseball team. It is not.

This team is a fraud, and it should be sued for fraud. Fans deserve their money back every time they show up at the ballpark and find Vidro batting cleanup.

Posted by KP

10:52 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Instead of writing about Carlos Silva moving his hands slightly or some other innane topic that has almost no impact what so ever, why not ask an important question, like what is Jose Vidro still doing on this team? and beyond that why is he batting 4th IF he has to stay on the roster? This is absolutly insane. The team is obviously not going anywhere this year, so why keep around an ageing player who has no tools? (no speed, defense, arm, contact or power) We should be putting players like Wlad and Jeff a shot so we can see if we maybe have something for next year or if we need to go looking for help.

Posted by scottM

11:05 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Adam, your post is thorough, and well reasoned, AND water under the bridge. The M's have Bedard through the end of 2009, and don't have these other players.

What if Bedard is not being a slacker, and really has had hip and back issues? I suspect that this is the case. What if, because of this, Bedard's trade value is temporarily deflated? If so, then there should be no rush to trade him at the 2008 deadline. If he does well from mid-July on, then his value will be higher this off-season. If, by some off-season magic, the M's are competitive in '09, then Bedard will likely be a key reason for this. If the M's tank in the first half of '09, then a CC Sabathia sort of deal will be available for Bedard a year from now.

Meanwhile, my three favorite parts of this pathetic season have been watching Felix, Morrow, and Bedard pitch. When these guys are on, we are seeing the very best MLB has to offer.

Posted by Dave from the coast

1:39 PM, Jul 09, 2008

Uhhh, Clay, I heard the gamecast, and the highest speed reached by Dutescherer (or however you spell it) was 91MPH. And 80% of the time, he was down around 88-90mph. I can't hit a ball thrown that fast, but then again, I don't play in the big leagues either.

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