"Because they know the other shoe could drop any day. They should know. It's always there.''

That pretty much says it all... sad that this is the only real excitement for the Mariners right now, to see who is going to get let go.

LOL

'Cause we REALLY need a slow, punchless DH at a NATIONAL League park

(Eyes rolling)

Fwiw, I did mean Vidro, though Sexson comes to mind too...sigh

Freakin figures, fire everyone but the slackers who are responsible for this piece of crap called a baseball team!!!

Armstrong!! Lincoln!!!!!! Get the hell out of town too you idiots!!!!!!!

Why aren't they firing the players whose results are so abominable to get all the others fired? Sexson and Vidro have had good seasons in their past, but they appear to be physically unable to play this game anymore. The team should stop tormenting them, their families, as well as the fans. I know it must be hard for formerly gifted athletes to recognize their sun is setting, but for those two men, it is certainly nighttime.

BOOOOO

Shocking! yawwnnn...

The fans want them gone. They both know they are done in Seattle.. and yet, they remain on the team and in the starting line-up every day. Would you perform your best in a situation like that?? For the love god, release them.

Yeah!!!! thats the message we need to send, we want these players to think we have no friggin clue, and we want them to be uncertain and fearful of their jobs!!!!!!!

I honestly don't have thr words to describe how idiotic this management team is. Going from Mac to Riggleman does noting.......Mac was definitely part of the problem, but he's at #4 on the list of reasons the Mariners suck.

lololol MARINERS 08 - WILL THE OTHER SHOE DROP?

did they pack parachutes?

The only players who probably arent worried that they will lose their jobs are Ichiro, Morrow, Felix, and Bloomquist. Anyone else is fair game to be traded or released. good job Lee

Vidro should have been the one taking news hard today. Not Mac. You take Vidro out of the equation and Mac has one less player to use incorretly.

Whatever, this place hasn't changed. Not yet.

"For the love god, release them."

What does Aphrodite have to do with this? She doesn't care.

Too bad for Mac - good man, good bench coach, didn't seem to be tough enough to be a manager

That Sexson and Vidro are still here is ridiculous. That Limcoln and Armstrong are still here shows the Mariner Organization still doesn't get it.

There should be several empty seats on the flight to Atlanta. Oh yeah - I see that Jorge Campillo is having a nice year in Atllanta - and is the starter against us tomorrow.

There's millions of dollars guaranteed to the players - that's why they are not DFA's yet. I'm sure the team will exhaust any potential solution allowing them to move the scrubs without eating every guaranteed penny.

It's coming though.....

Was Pepe Vidro allowed to make the flight too?

tsk, tsk! what a waste of two (or more) airline tickets. . . .

(Minor note: I had wondered who Castro and the other unrecognizable guy in the dugout in uniform was. Part of the question answered.)

I feel for Mac, can't pin the roster decisions on him, but also think it was clear that he couldn't go from his version of bench coach (nice guy buffer between a Piniella and the players) to The Man which requires a different approach. That said, who will the dynamic duo of Lincoln and Armstrong throw under the bus next in a thinly disguised effort to save themselves? Head groundskeeper? PA announcer Tom Hutyler? The Mariner Moose? Howard and Chuck led us into this multi-year mess, taciltly if not explicitly approving every contract of this underperforming group of individuals and hiring the likes of Hargrove, Bavasi, and Mac. (Gut says they also are responsible for running off Piniella and Gillick but I have no facts to prove this.) It's time for Lincoln to be a man of his word, take full responsibility, and exit with Armstrong in tow--immediately.

Oh, that's right ... there's a baseball team in Seattle.

"That Sexson and Vidro are still here is ridiculous. That Limcoln and Armstrong are still here shows the Mariner Organization still doesn't get it."

Sweet Lou - give Pelekoudas a chance to sift through the mess left on Bavasi's desk man...LOL. Heads are going to roll, but you don't just send $18M packing while you still have to pay the bill. That may indeed end up being the case, but it's worth a couple of phone calls to see what kind of movement you may be able to accomplish.

No more Mac and no more Bavasi....those are good things...more good to come I'm sure.

Question: is there really any serious offensive talent left in the minor league system which really looks like an improvement, or are they all already here? The Rainiers roster does not appear to have others who are hitting for average and power at a level that would translate to a major league upgrade. Tom Hubbard, 1B at Double AA, seems to be a statistical possibility. Clearly Vidro and Sexson need to go by July 31, but unless there is something better than occasional singles lurking in the minors, immediate moves could be futile.

Mariners are officially a baseball joke, Check out Tom Verducci's opening sentance on a Tues article dealing with the dangers of maple bats ,

'There is a scourge upon the otherwise robust game that commissioner Bud Selig must do something about quickly. No, it's not the Seattle Mariners, the most wasteful $110 million ever spent in baseball.'

Lifted from SI.com

So what is Riggleman going to do? Is Clement still going to catch everyday? Is Ichiro still going to play right field? Is Vidro still going to be at the top of the order?

And does Riggleman even care? He's a lame duck manager that was handed the job for 90 games. He has virtually no chance of becoming the full time manager. Does he mail it in?

Pay Clay:

There is no one that will take either one (Sexson or Vidor) off our hands. Anyone team that would be interested knows just to wait until they are released. I don't see anyone wanting Richie - it looks like he is thru. Releasing these two would best for all concerned. I donl't know how a manager could force himself to write his name onto a line up card.

No coaches were fired?

My hunch is that they will not release anybody outright. If they cannot trade them, anybody under contract will be allowed to play out the string. The management just cannot face paying players that will hook on with someone else cheaply - and they wiil. And an interim GM has no power to do any such thing as insist on dropping players, salary or not.

Anybody have more info on Jose Castro?

Yeah, Sexson's and Vidro's days with the M's are numbered, but the real problem is who are you going to call up from Tacoma if you release either of those guys right now?

I think that if the M's really thought they had a major leaque ready guy in Tacoma that they could call up to play 1st base, he'd be here now. Looking at the Rainiers roster, I don't know that there is someone down there that they could call up. Bryan LaHair appears to be having an okay season in AAA, but his numbers don't impress me as in terms of showing that is major league ready.

It would have been good to see Mike Morse get an opportunity to play at 1st base, but that isn't going to happen this year.

With all the heads rolling and negativity in and around that clubhouse, its probably a bad time to call up a rookie anyhow. With the M's on the road the next 10 days, it may be a good time to let things settle down a bit before calling up the next rookie to the big club.

jonny mac = bill doba

Geoff: Who the heck is Jose Castro? Related to Fidel? An upgrade over Jeff Pentland, now that Lee Elia is bench coach?

Probably not realistic to imagine that Sexson/Vidro would be released before the Mariners departed for Atlanta. They probably are being given a week or two to lift their batting averages so as to have some chance of inclusion in a pre-July 31 deal.
If they cannot do it, then they both no doubt will be dumped and their 2008 salaries eaten. Washburn and Batista are unlikely to be dumped outright but they, too, can be expected to go if any decent talent can be obtained in return.

ESPN baseball commentators have been speculating today that Bedard not only would be traded but that he could bring the Mariners solid young talent in return. Bedard, Ibanez, Beltre and perhaps Putz should be shopped...Johjima, too, although interest there should be minimal after Lincoln/Armstrong stupidly dumped a big three-year contract on him.

Maybe Vidro and sexson are on the plane cuz they will be traded to ATL for norton

There is only one explanation for Sexson and Vidro being on the plane:

They are being traded to east coast teams for (minimal cash, or player(s) to be named later).

Jose Castro?? Didn't he play lead guitar for Eddie & The Cruisers?

I still believe Mac should have been let go at the end of last season. The team collapsed under him and continued to underperform this season.


He was not the right manager for this team. Besides the fact that Mac tried to encourage small ball with a bunch of slow running, poor hitting players, we have a core of young players who have never played won anything and a bunch of aging vets who have never won anything, save for a couple like Washburn. To keep saying that the team needs leaders when none have ever won anything was always a mistake. The team should have installed a leader at the top, not a player-friendly manager.


Hoepfully they look at the team they are going to try and put together and select a manager that can manage them accordingly.

Wow! They're dropping like flies.

Names who should be fired next (incomplete list):
ARMSTRONG (puh-leeze!)
LINCOLN (you too!)
SEXSON (way overdue)

Git 'er done.

To gone-shootin: Interesting posts on the last thread. :)

Mr. Sabermetrics is calling his shots:

Washburn will be dealt to an NL team or the Yanks.

Batista will be dealt or kept in the BP until the new GM is hired and he will then be dealt in the winter.

Sexson will be released with nobody bidding for his services outside of a team picking him up for league minimum.

Vidro could be dealt IF the M's eat the salary. I can see some team seeing value in him off the bench.

Raul could be dealt seeing he is going to become a free agent. I see a Jamie Moyer type deal where we get nothing notable in return.

Bloomquist may be getting showcased to be dealt seeing he's a free agent as well. Keep in mind, Moyer was a fan fave here and they had no trouble dealing him. Willie would most likely find a home in the NL.

Cairo will be DFA'd in favor of Tug Hulett, Matt Tuiasosopo or Yu Chi Chen.

Burke will be DFA'd or dealt unless Joh gets dealt to a team in need of a Catcher. I see the latter BUT it makes no sense now that Jeff is catching to keep Burke UNLESS they are using him to mentor Clement.

Rhodes will be dealt to a team that could use an moderately consistent LH pitcher. His grittiness is undeniable!

Beltre COULD get dealt but I can't see the team doing it with no apparent successor in the minors.

Bedard will be dealt if not at the deadline, the winter meetings for sure.

The rotation will be Felix, Silva, Rowland-Smith, Feierabend and whatever kid they get for Bedard.

Saunders will be given a shot at playing CF.

Ichiro, Felix, Silva, Lopez, Yuni, Reed, Clement, Putz, Morrow and the majority of the BP stay.

Jim Riggleman?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

If they are going to bring in some guy to just finish out the season, why don't they at least bring in someone that has a 0-0 record instead of a worse record than McLaren.

My votes are Jay Buhner or Dan Wilson.

Jay Buhner at least cares about Seattle and the Mariners and would at least have a passion and would light a fire.

Dan Wilson, hated him as a player, but I think he would make a great manager. He could be the next Mike Socia? SP?

When do the Storm play next?

chris, I agree.

Riggleman????????

There's millions of dollars guaranteed to the players - that's why they are not DFA's yet. I'm sure the team will exhaust any potential solution allowing them to move the scrubs without eating every guaranteed penny.

Good point. We've suffered enough by their awful. Play we better try to get something back--anything!

Jim Riggleman won 90 games as manager of the Cubs. He's got more experience as a manager than McLaren did.

It's time for the other shoe to drop!

Sick of seeing the players not getting held accountable!

Richie - cut the guy
Vido - cut or trade (if you can)
Washburn - trade he has value to NL team

This list could go on - but it's time players start moving!

With Buhner's name mentioned on this thread...I was imagining how Buhner would react to Bedard's quitter attitude. Not a pretty thought.

I am not a Vidro supporter in any way, shape or fashion - but this is the one road trip he makes sense - PH'ing for the pitchers late in the game. Maybe they just bought him a one-way tacket. . . .

hey scrapiron

look at riggleman's career win percentage, it's like .480. he stinks as a manager.

it's all the same old tired names in this organization...lee elia!!!! that guy was a hitting coach back in 1953.

mel stottlemyre. solid work with erik bedard.

jim riggleman??? snOOOOOOOze.

I can't look, and I can't turn away!

This just looks like desperation. We get Chuck throwing a baby-tantrum, firing up the chainsaw and waving it wildly in the clubhouse.

Keeping Mac around wouldn't have killed anyone and would've set up the new GM to bring in his own guy.

Now Riggleman will get a chance to "show improvement." (Like that won't happen. If they start winning two games a week instead of one, THAT's improvement!)

It's obvious to me that Chuck is totally out of control at this point. I'm really hoping he gets canned. C'mon Howie!
Wither Chris Larson???

Lincoln is your typical corporate stiff. He loves people who kiss his ass, this is why Pinella left, he was not going to kiss anyones ass. Lincoln will come out and say "Well we need someone who will fit our system" What he means is we need someone who will do what we tell them to do and not ask any questions. Lincoln joined the team in 99 and with the exception of 01, his teams have been terrible.

Paul Allen's teams are good why....because he hires people that know what the hell they are doing and gets out of the way, he gets out of the spotlight. Until Lincoln figures this out we will be in a tailspin.

Put Buhner on the staff and bring back Buhner Buzz Cut Night! It's time to kick some a**.

Riggleman is better than most. I won't advocate for him to be permanent, but he did okay as manager of the Cubs. A ton better than Mac.

"Bloomquist may be getting showcased to be dealt seeing he's a free agent "

LMAO. Now thats funny. What could WFB possilby being showcasing? His four hop throw in from centerfield? His .150 BA? His four Ks in one game, when he is a utility player not a slugger? I needed a good laugh, you made my day.

One of my biggest criticisms of the FO has been the willingness to decide a player was not a good fit and in the haste to make a trade, driving down the value. Carlos Guillen and Rafael Soriano are the two big examples. We also could have made a qualifying offer to Jose Guillen (that he most likely would have turned down) and gotten a draft pick for him. Worst-case, we are stuck with him and can then trade him. Instead, we get nothing.

I fear we are about to do it again with Bedard. Stark at ESPN says one of the reasons Bavasi was fired was he refused to shop Bedard. It would appear Howard or Chuck or both have learned nothing.

Chris - I'm not saying Riggleman is a great manager, I'm just saying he's won 90 games in a season with the Cubs and took them to the playoffs. The other seasons, his teams struggled. What I'm saying is that he has more experience and won't be overwhelmed like McLaren was.

Riggleman is just a lame duck manager for the rest of this season, I'm just happy that he's done the job before is all. Hopefully since he doesn't have to worry about having a long term job he won't have any problem playing the most energetic lineup regardless of contracts or seniority.

I really thought we had something in McLaren. He was the eighth best manager (based on winning percentage) the M's have ever had:

Rank Manager Years W-L Pct.
12 Darrell Johnson 1977-80 226-362 .384
13 Maury Wills 1980-81 26-56 .317
7 Rene Lachemann 1981-83 140-180 .438
10 Del Crandell 1983-84 93-131 .415
6 Chuck Cottier 1984-86 98-119 .452
15 Marty Martinez* 1986 0-1 .000
5 Dick Williams 1986-88 159-192 .453
9 Jim Snyder* 1988 45-60 .429
3 Jim Lefebvre 1989-91 233-253 .479
11 Bill Plummer 1992 64-98 .395
1 Lou Piniella 1993-2002 840-711 .542
2 Bob Melvin 2003-04 156-168 .481
4 Mike Hargrove 2005-07 192-210 .478
8 John McLaren 2007-08 68-88 .436
14 Jim Riggleman 2008 0-0 .000
* Interim

Sexson has become worthless, unless Riggs can work some miracle motivating the guy to produce (ok, not going to happen).

But, there's no need to simply drop Vidro. They can audition him as a pinch-hitter. If he passes he could make a nice bench piece for some NL team competing for the playoffs. Not that they can get that much for him, but hey, give Lee a chance to take a shot in the dark.

There are Rumors in SanFran that the Giants and Mariners are going for a Richie Sexson-Barry Zito Swap.

"There are Rumors in SanFran that the Giants and Mariners are going for a Richie Sexson-Barry Zito Swap."

Would you rather smash your finger with a hammer or have a sharp stick in the eye?

"....the eighth best manager (based on winning percentage) the M's have ever had:"

Only ONE manager in our history has had a + .500 record!!!!???? I really miss Lou now.

yes i like it, was way to long in coming , cost us to titles having Mac on, ant one to keep belaving in sexson , is not a manger...so we aill start seeing more changes, ...I cant see keeping vidro, willie sexson on the team in a week, they had there chance , i will take my chances with new guys, ...now maybe morrow will be a starter, dump batista, washburn even bedard..bring in the new blood, ....hope Rggs does it

Zito is signed until 2013 with a club option the following year on a $126 million dollar contract. There's no way Lee Pelekoudas takes on his contract just to rid them of Sexson who is a free agent next year. Lee may not understand a lick about evaluating players, but he understands contracts.

Zito for Sexson? Not unless the Giants pay his salary until 2013. Sexson is off the books after 2008.

Zito? Take a look at the remainder of his contract:
08:$14.5M, 09:$18.5M, 10:$18.5M, 11:$18.5M, 12:$19M, 13:$20M

Let's hope Lee is smarter than that.

Any one else wonder if Bedard will go more than 3 innings tomorrow because he is a pitcher and not a hitter?

Mariners need an '09 first baseman. Ideas?
We're going to need a first baseman in 2009. Sexson is gone, and Ibanez (for whatever reason) isn't going to play first. The only free agent first baseman that would fit the bill would be Mark Teixera, and the Mariners aren't going to contend in 2009 so paying $20M for the next 5 seasons doesn't make financial sense.

How about Micah Hoffpauir of the Cubs? He's blocked by Derek Lee, is left handed, and currently has a .972 OPS, although it's just 16 games. He had a .917 OPS at AAA last year, so he's legit.

They fired the wrong person. The players locker room is where the cleaning needs to take place.

No players will be let go--just rookies sent back to Tacoma. Fire Armstron and Lincoln!

Throw Sexson and Vidro from the plane. Well, figuratively anyway.

DFA them both. With MaClaren gone, this should be the first step in the clean up effort on the field following the end of Hurricane Bavasi.

Geoff...

What do you think about a Dontrelle Willis for Jarrod Washburn trade?? You think the Tigers would do it?

why would we want dontrelle willis? guy was worse than wash this year and is down in A

If Dickey doesn't cut it as a starter, then what? We really don't have many options for our rotation, do we?

Freddy Fender, What, you think Atlanta is Stupid???

"Maybe Vidro and sexson are on the plane cuz they will be traded to ATL for norton"

I'd take that deal in a Seattle Minute.

byebye

I was curious if Sexton and Vidro were on the flight to Atlanta. I guess the next question is: can we leave them there? Just looking at the numbers, no one is worth what the Mariners are paying them! Is the Mariners some kind of charity for useless players? Let's continue cleaning house until we get the right mix. I really don't think getting rid of Bedard already is the answer; let's move him from #1 pitcher to #2 or #3, work with him there is too much invested to have a clearance sale. But let's move Sexton, Vidro and Batista!