GO MARLINS!!!!!

Put Reed at first base, forget about it, you penalize the defense with such a move, as Reed is a good outfielder. Move Ibanez to first because, one, he has some experience there, and two, he is clearly a step slow in the outfield. In the latter case, Reed easily improves the outfield defense over Ibanez. Were you not watching yesterday when a catchable ball flew over Raul's head for an extra base hit. Raul, at this point in his career, is best suited to play 1B or DH period.

It is silly to listen to anything thar John McLaren proposes, Reed at first base in nonsense, maximize the defensive factors, put him in left and Ibanez at 1B. DFA Sexson and Vidro, fire Bavasi and McLaren.

Nothing will happen ... this FO is powerless.

If Wlad and Reed are going to be in the lineup, why not at least improve the outfiled defense and have Ra-l paly first?

Baghead Nation releases the following statement

Mariners FO: We will not be swayed by meaningless sacrifices. You know what we want. Submit to the indomitable will of Baghead Nation or you will be crushed.

Is there such a thing as a "5th best' hitter on these Mariners? Would our 5th best hitter be able to crack the Red Sox bench? Would our third?

As near as I can figur, the Mariners have Felix as a star, Ichiro gets the benefit of the doubt, and Bedard as a number 3 starter. Throw in some of the bullpen, sure. The rest of our starting lineup is really not too good

Sorry, I must be a bit dense this morning. I read through a couple times and didn't catch that you were proposing a platoon of Reed/Cairo/Vidro at 1b b/c Reed wouldn't cut it as an everyday left fielder.

Not sure I believe it, even though the numbers (this season and past) are likely there to back it up. I'd still think Reed in left and Raul at 1b gives the former time to prove himself again (i.e. provide trade value or audition for next year) and the latter a chance to rest his legs to have maximum effectiveness at the plate.

Hell, stick WFB in left at this point, let's make Novice happy. :)

It would also make more of a statement to fire guys when you've seen enough and have a replacement ready to go. Not just on off-days. But I guess that's baseball tradition or something.

"They know the team will be better off with Ibanez as a DH or first baseman. But not with two guys hitting below .200 and playing at the outfield corners."

That you even for a second contemplate putting Jeremy Reed at first base while Ibanez still patrols left field means you are simply not thinking clearly. There's no way to justify that decision beyond a desire not to offend Ibanez' feelings. The team has two guys hitting about .200. Replace those two guys with two other guys hitting about .200, only they are good defenders on the corners of the outfield and YOU'VE IMPROVED THE TEAM. If this is an example of the M's being smarter than me...well that's just sad, really.

Great writeup, Geoff.

One thing, though. If we're entertaining the notion of turning one of our corner outfielders into a 1B so we can leave the DH spot for Clement, we probably should be considering Raul at 1B instead of Reed. Yes, Raul would be a defensive liability at first, but being a defensive liability at 1B isn't anywhere near as damning as being one in LF, the most spacious part of the Safeco outfield. In fact, I'd go as far as arguing that Reed could potentially be a bigger defensive disaster at 1B than Raul. Reed simply hasn't played 1B, where at least Raul has a hundred or so games played at the position. It's a win-win for everyone, Reed plays LF and dramatically improves the defense, and Raul goes to 1B to keep his legs a bit more fresh.

Also, keep in mind that 1B is a power-premium position. Playing guys like Reed there isn't getting the most out of the position. Reed's bat at 1B would most likely be below league average, wheras his bat in left field would be around league average (and this isn't taking defense into consideration either). Raul would be an average to slightly above average player at first.

Other than the Raul/Reed at 1B thing, great writeup and great ideas, Geoff.

Bring on the next sacrifice - Bill Bavasi!

Look at Asdrubal Cabrera in Cleveland. His first full season with the Indians has been a bust, compared to his partial campaign last year.

One can point at one example of a young player struggling and paint a broad stroke that generalizes playing prospects doesn't work. Asdrubal has a career 317 at bats to his name. Give me a break.

I mean, look at Balentien. He hasn't exactly hit his way out of his early slump, has he? His numbers keep getting worse.

You can work with a player all you want in the cages and before the games. When a prospect is starting every 3 to 4 games, you are doing more harm than good. Wlad was better off playing every day in Tacoma rather than rotting on the bench. Thus, this is how they handled Adam Jones, and probably why he has been slow to develop. From June 7 to June 13th Wlad was benched. That's why the numbers are getting worse Geoff.

After this weekend's debacle, lets have a two for one sacrifice - Bill Bavasi and John McLaren!

If the Mariners management do not want to bring up Clement and don't want sub-.200 hitters on the outfield corners, can they not find some veteran that can play first and hit at least .250 and maybe 10-15 homers? Shouldn't cost much. While they are at it, bring in a guy at DH that can also hit .250. Or, is there a speedy, slap hitting left fielder and put Ibanez at first? Seems like there have to be options other than the garbage they have and the young guys they do not want to use. Fans just want something, anything that might bring a bit of excitement to this awful season.

Geoff,

It's all your fault man, no more days off for you. Just kidding. Good to have you back.

Right now the M's bosses are probably searching for a new GM, hoping that the Mariners will reproduce what the Angels did after Bavasi left.

I'm afraid however, that giving Bavasi all that payroll has only enabled him to screw up worse. Clearly the Angels have other people in their organization that know what they're doing.

How is Jeremy Reed a sub .200 hitter? Last I saw, he is hitting .275 - put him in left, Balentien in right and let them play everyday. Raul is a liability in left field, watch the tape of yesterday's game when he let that fly ball get over his head for a double.

Geoff, I would like to offer this train of thought. This team would be light years ahead with its best defensive outfield in place and Raul at first. This would not allow the other team to put runners on because outs should have been made that were not. It would boost the pitching staff’s moral and they would feel as if they had to throw a shutout every night. I know run production might go down, but they might not need to score as many runs with improved defense. Also, give Yuni notice, if his attitude doesn’t improve, find someone else, and bench him for a while. Leaving your worst defensive player in the field just doesn’t make any baseball sense.

How many young guys did Detroit play in that terrible '03 season to prepare them for the future, only to see them make the WS in '06? Or, did they cling to overpaid, under performing veterans in hopes something miraculous would happen?

cut sexson, vidro, cairo, burke. bring up clement, jimerson, wells, lahair. when JJ returns from the DL, option either corco/wells (performance depending).

2 lineup constructions:

Ichiro! CF
Lopez 2B
Ibanez 1B
Beltre 3B
Clement DH
Balentien RF
Reed LF
Johjima C
Betancourt SS

Ichiro! CF
Lopez 2B
Ibanez DH
Beltre 3B
Clement C
Balentein RF
LaHair 1B
Reed LF
Betancourt SS

Clement starts 5 games/week between the C & DH spots. Johjima = 2-3 C starts/week, late innings defense replacement. come on, now - let's play the kids (thus, actually giving the fans something to watch for) and close the book on 2008 - i mean, at least we have adam jones to watch, right? changes must be made by the close of the marlins series.

here's an interesting thought - how many disillusioned seattle fans would trade the Mariners right now in order to keep the Sonics from becoming OKcity fodder? in other words, given the choice between keeping the mariners or the sonics, what percentage of seattle would actually take the mariners at this point?

Your 2008 Seattle Mariners! "Cascading into the abyss of irrelevance...its more likely than you think"

This is nitpicky and I'm dredging up a dead beaten up horse, but I'm feeling persnickity. You said that quote, "Seven years is not a long time in baseball.", but wasn't a part of your argument for the Bedard trade was that 2 years is a long time in baseball?

I think seven years is a long time in baseball. Lou Pinella was only here from 1993-2002, 10 years for those counting.

Pat Gillick was GM from 1998 to 2003, five years. Sigh I knew I'd miss Lou but Pat Gillick too?

Anyways Bavasi and the FO has had this team for what seems like an eternity.

You are spot on in the first part of this blog....there is simply no excuse for the way this team is being run.

You mention the great teams from 95-2003, and I'd argue that it was a a mixture of having can't miss, "once in a lifetime" talents like Junior and A-Rod......and shrewd, go for broke moves (Randy johnson, Andy Benes, etc)......some worked, some didn't....but those teams weren't what I'd call "gun shy".

I've seen Armstrong and Lincoln take credit for "saving baseball in Seattle".....they are self absorbed clowns......its like Bavidiot getting credit for the angels WS win. These clowns have hamstrung this organization, even in 2001.

Whats really troubling about all of this, is they are ignoring the fact that something needs to be done.....what can possibly br the rationale for knowing your team is failing miserably, but refusing to make moves that EVERYONE knows is necessary?

I can understand if it were just a few bloggers, or a local media guy, but when Fox, CBS, and even ESPN are quoting GMs and baseball executives that are bashing the Mariners, its mind boggling.

From your first paragraph Geoff:

"No matter, though. Despite Florida's best efforts at keeping the show competitive, it was still one of the more embarrassing sweeps in Mariner history."

So what you're saying then is that you're calling a Florida sweep? I mean, not that I blame you or anything...

And in response to Geoff's additional note.

Good point, but here's my thinking on Raul at 1B: This season's toast. Let's try it to see if it will work for next season. The more things this club tries now, the clearer the offseason needs are. If Raul can play a passable 1B (and keep in mind, his benchmark is Richie Sexson, so a pretty low bar), we can consider offering him a 1-year deal to play the position instead of LF. If it all blows up, no big deal. Like I said, the season is lost, so we might as well do everything we can to figure out what we're going to do next season.

What did you say your son learned about sacrifice in that anthropology class as Stanford? Let me tell you, usually sacrifices are made to some powerful force that needs appeasing so that life can continue. Well in the Western mind set, there is no more powerful negative force that the Devil and let me tell you I will accept nothing less than - Bill Bavasi and John McLaren. You can throw in Richie Sexson and Jose Vidro and I'll give you a special on next years ritual sacrifice. Fail to heed this warning at your own peril, next I'll demand your head. Don't trifle with me!

Great post... I have only one thing to add (after what BrianL said above, referring to the continued 'Raul in LF delusion') and that's just a clarification on Asdrubal Cabrera and "bust."

The reasons behind the Indians sending him back down to the minors is because his defensive prowess was no longer as valuable a piece as it was after both their groundball pitchers (Carmona, Westbrook) ended up on the DL. Combine that with the rest of the Indians lineup struggling at the plate, and his defense becomes a slight luxury. He would've gone down immediately following Westbrook's trip to the DL, but Wedge likes to kid too much.

Westbrook won't be back (Tommy John surgery,) but I think it will probably be a mute point by the time Carmona returns as Cabrera's hitting .450 (9-for-20) in his first five games at Buffalo, while his replacement (Josh Barfield) is already on the DL.

Far too early to call him a bust.

The Reed to 1B moves is just the last in a long line of bad moves......We're taking one of our better optioons in the OF and making him switch positions.......instead of putting Reed in LF, moving Ibanez to DH, and playing Clement at 1B......

Its almost like a big "FU" to the people who cover the M's, and to the bloggers who have argued the lineup and defensive construction of this team. Its like a a person who knows they are wrong, and knows they are going to fail riding it out, refusing to admit they were wrong at all.

Its just absolutely mind numbing, the way the organization is run, and this team is run on the field.

Usually I try to make a thoughtful, possibly humorous comment. But this team has left me speechless. It has all been said.

I asked my old man, if he wanted to go to the game yesterday for Father's Day. His reply.

"Hell no! Let's go fishin!"

all we caught were a few rays, but we spent just a few bucks and had a damn good time. Just me an Dad, on the lake.

When I got home and heard the Mariners lost, how they lost, I just laughed, turned on the NBA playoffs and opened another beer.

One good thing about this season: I have saved a ton of money by NOT going to The Safe

Que sera sera....

i think this will be the headline later on Seattletimes.com...

UPDATE 12:11PM
Mariners re-hire Jeff Pentland

Please forget the Washburn accolades!!! That is what is wrong with this team. These underperforming, overpaid whiners are babied and given praise for poor performance. Why can't we just say it like it is. Washburn is a washout and no mattter what his numbers say (ERA, run support, etc.) he just doesn't have it. Never did, with the exception of the lone 2002 season with the Angels. The problem is none of the Marners coaching staff or Management can properly eveluate talent and mch less how to get the most out of what talent they do have. I agree with Chris B. above!! Everyone but Ichiro, Felix, Bedard and the Bull pen should go. But that is not going to happen. Just like the Management probably won't change, at least not significantly. So all that is left is to rant and rave how bad the team is. Unfortunately the exasperation has boiled over into this blog with constant bickering among bloggers.

Lets bring back Hargrove, this guy clearly knew how to manage. Put Mac back on as bench coach and things probably get turned around. Dump Perlozzo, he's way past his prime, i've seen enough of that guy.

Chuckie - There are "supernatural" forces watching you and you know all that I want!

This didn’t just happen either. At the end of spring training I told you guys to take up golf because at least there you could control the score. A lot of us could see this happening; it was a poorly constructed team from the beginning. The authors of this mess must go. Fire all of management

Oly Mike -

Whether or not Washburn is a washout or not, if he has any perceived value to the NL, by all means let's talk up him up and say that he's pitching well. Geoff makes valid point that he could do well in the NL, and if even if it's putting lipstick on a pig (which is another debate,) if doing so brings anything in return, so be it. Shout if from the mountaintops - Washburn is a #3 NL SP (what do you want for him? ;)

What's next? Putting Vidro at 2B to let Lopez focus full-time on hitting? It makes as much sense as putting Reed at 1B and leaving Raul in Left.

Even Manny can acknowledge he sucks in the field, yet Ibanez seems to function under the notion that he actually has something to contribute in left. If he actually hit, that'd be one thing, but he hasn't been doing that for months.

Meh, I guess none of us should complain. As in playing these crappy overpaid veterans, Bavasi, McLaren, etc., are only hastening their demise (which is a *good* thing!). Hopefully the M's can top the team record for wins and get a high draft pick in next years draft.

Its getting depressing even scanning the blog anymore. Geoff gave the best explanation he possibly could about the Reed to first experiment. It's just a shame he has to speculate on the Mariners motives like the rest of us since they won't be forthright with their explanations.

Maybe they won't play Ibanez at first because they are expecting to trade him soon?

Drake.

I agree with you that we should try and get something for Washburn. But what you have stated about touting Washburn's positives brings up a very significant concern with this team. And that is the honesty and integrity of the Mariner Management. Why is it that everything they do is surreptitious or devious? They just can't accept truth and deal with it straightforwardly. They won't accept the fact that they have made some horrible decisions in personnel evaluation!! And rather than cutting the losses and starting over they will go to extraordinary lengths to slave their poor decisions. And that is why we have this giant "S" sandwich and no one wants to take a bit!!! No accountability. It is someone else's fault or lets find a way to send our problems to some other sucker!!!

This is utter lunacy. You have to start deciding which players you want to build with and which are not part of your future. No smart team would think Raul is part of the future in left or that Reed has the kind of bat to play first base.

If you think Raul might have a future at first, find out. Starting tonight. Get Reed in left and Balentien in right and find out if they can play.

Maybe the Ms are smarter than me Geoff but they have a HUGE blind spot when it comes to veteranness. That and they seem to dismiss mountains of new data that might help their inherent mental advantage. So the Ms aren't less smart than me, they just act that way.

Geoff.

Nice post although on one issue I cannot see the "accountability".

I do not understand the rationale for having Reed play first over Ibanez.

You seem to suggest that Reed and Balentin underperforming with the bat is the reason Reed should play at first. You say Balentin would have to be an everyday player if Ibanez moves to first. Why not simply put Ibanez on first (or DH) on the days when Balentin is playing. On the other days (and if there really are no other options) Ibanez can play LF.

If all three are playing surely the right thing to do is arrange them so their defensive skills (or frailties) are optimally arranged. Reed at first does not say this to me. Is Ibanez is so awful at first as well that he is even bigger liability there than at LF (DH will be open if Clement catches) or is this a case that they do not want to hurt Ibanez's feelings by moving him for a rookie? If the latter, is it any wonder that things have got as bad as they are and is there any hope they will improve?

I am sure there is an explanation here but that I have been too slow to grasp it. Please enlighten me.

BOYCOTT M's, GO METS

Until the M's fire Bavasi, I have decided to publicly demonstrate my frustration by forsaking the team of my youth and follow the Mets. Why the Mets, you say? Because you get to follow the fortunes of a floundering, underachieving team without the emotional attachment!

So until the day Bavasi is fired, I say go Mets!

BTW, for the record I think the purge needs to start at the top with Lincoln and Armstrong.

Geoff,

Welcome back!

We all agree changes are way/way over due!!
This season is in the toilet!!
So, what is it going to take to stop this train wreck?
The offense is the 1st thing we need to get going.

You saw alot of our AAA guys play in Arizona this spring. Besides stats which one of those guys plays with great enthusium and emotion?? To my way of thinking, this is the type of player the Mariner club house truly needs right now!

I liked the way Tug Hulett and Charlton Jimerson handled themselves. Did you see the same our of these players?

Based on my above statement here are some of the changes to give a thought to.

Bring up Hulett, Jimerson, Clement, Diaz & LaHair.

Release or trade Vidro, Cairo, & Burke.
Send Balentine down to AAA for a tune-up.

Ibanez become the primary DH!
Move Ichiro back to RF where the change might do him good. Platoon Reed & Jimerson in CF.
Have Diaz play LF with Ibanez there some of the time. LaHair take over at 1st base with Sexson playing some against Lefties, he hits .324 against them. Hulett can take Cairo spot as the fill in IF.
*Play 2d base in the late innings, he is a better 2d baseman than Lopez. Lopez can maybe get some playing time at 3rd or 1st base??
*Clement become the primary catcher with playing the DH part time. This might allow Johjima to relax and get his groove back?

Trades will impact so much of the decisions on who to bring up. Let's give our young players a chance to gain experience and to grow into stars.
It will be fun to watch the maturation!

Please Mariners!! Piss OR Get Off the Pot!!

Lincoln needs to:
1. Fire McClaren and Bavasi today.
2. Get rid of Sexson and Vidro immediately....if they aren't claimed on waivers, cut them and pay off their salaries.
3. Trade anyone on the major league roster for good prospects....except maybe Ichiro, Betancourt, Lopez, and Hernandez. Everyone else can be had for the right price.
4. Apologize to the fans and media for this year's team.

Might we put an apple in Bavasi and McLaren's mouths, I so love the taste of roasted pig seasoned with apple.

>>>The M's aren't dumber than any of you when it comes to baseball

Sorry Geoff, you'll have to offer a bit more factual support for this. I believe that most of the posters here could make better baseball decisions than the M's front office. How many moves have they made that have been mind-bogglingly stupid, even without the benefit of hindsight.

- Giving away Carlos Guillen for free
- The Soriano-for-HoRam debacle
- Trading for Vidro (.600 OPS DHs are littering AAA rosters)
- Signing mediocrities to fill the rotation (anyone with half a brain could have seen beyond Washburn's one year flashy ERA)

The evidence speaks for itself.

So, as good as the Marlins have looked this season, it is possible -- not probable, but possible -- that the M's could win one or both of the next two games. If that happens, there will not have to be a sacrifice this week. We're speaking strictly from an optics perspective here. Take two of three from the Marlins, and the M's can declare they are playing better baseball, etc., etc.

And why should two wins postpone any firings? What do two wins change? This kind of thinking would only reinforce many fans' belief that the Mariers don't give a rip about the fans, don't know how to run a team, or both.

But this once proud organization, which did plenty from 1995 to 2003 as far as fielding playoff-caliber teams, is now a joke. Folks across baseball are staring at this train wreck in amazement and wondering what it will take to see any player moves made by this team. Yes, the M's have thrown their hat behind John McLaren. OK, I get that. If Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong feel this is not a field manager issue, then McLaren finishes the year. There is some logic to that.

Please note the Willie Randolph situation. The Mets are in much better shape than the Mariners, yet Randolph is being held accountable. And it has nothing to do with the NY media. The Mets' FO gets it. Seattle's does not.

Some of you may scoff at the difference between a 99-loss or 100-loss season, but believe me, the team is conscious of it. The symbolism does matter. As we've said, the season is over. Symbolism is all that is left right now.

I scoff at it. And anyone who thinks there is any meaningful difference is dead wrong. Aside from the fact that this team will be better with Clement, Balentien, Reed, rather than Vidro, Sexson, and Raul in LF, the "symbolism" of 100 losses should not have anything to do with developing this team's young players properly. Yet another example of the incompetence of Seattle's FO.

Up until now, they've been terrified by their experiences with Jeff Clement and Wladimir Balentien. Clement was awful his first 15-game stint this year, to the point where he had to be sent down to figure out how to hit again. He wasn't going to swim his way out of it against major league pitching and the M's were still clinging to the notion they could put together a win streak and climb back into contention. I mean, look at Balentien. He hasn't exactly hit his way out of his early slump, has he? His numbers keep getting worse.

Yet another example of incompetence!! 15 games was enough to decide that Clement had forgotten how to hit!! They take ABs away from Wlad because he was slumping - exactly the opposite of what they should have done. And why? To get Jose Vidro more ABs and to keep Raul's glove in LF? No, Geoff, I don't agree that the Mariners know more about baseball than we do.

Well, here are a couple. Jeremy Reed has been working out at first base for a reason. If you have to make some sacrifices, I would first call up Clement ASAP and swap him for Vidro at the DH spot. Keep Vidro around as a pinch-hitter if need be, though it's tough to justify letting someone else go off the roster for that. It would necessitate a second move. And for me, that's when you designate Sexson for assignment and shift Reed into his first base slot.

No no no no no!!!!!!! This has been said by everyone else here, but why in the world would you teach Reed, a superior LF, a new position, and leave the inferior LF, Ibanez where he is when he actually has played 1B before. Stupid, stupid, stupid move. No, Geoff, the Mariners do NOT know that Raul sucks in LF. They just don't. And if they did, then their inability to make the proper move and get Raul out of LF is just as damning.

it was tough for the team to take Raul Ibanez out of left field when it had two other corner outfielders -- Reed and Balentien -- who had yet to show they can contribute every day. Believe me, anyone can see that Ibanez needs to be pulled out of left field. The M's aren't dumber than any of you when it comes to baseball. No major league team is. Sorry to say, but them's the facts. They know the team will be better off with Ibanez as a DH or first baseman. But not with two guys hitting below .200 and playing at the outfield corners. Reed has now shown he can be an everyday player, at least in the context of this bad team. Once Balentien shows this, you can, at least a couple of days per week, go with Balentien in left and Reed in right and make Ibanez the DH. For those games where Reed would not be playing first base.

So what you are saying is that this team would be better served with Raul in LF, Sexson at 1B, and Vidro at DH, rather than Reed in LF, with Raul at DH or 1B? Really? The M's are worried about Reed's and Wlad's bats, but are willing to run with Vidro and Sexson in the lineup PLUS the downgrade in LF defense? I guess that kind of thinking makes perfect sense for the Mariners.

Clement is not the "fifth best hitter" on this team, despite what I've read from some of you. He still has to prove he can hit in the big leagues.

Yes, he is. 15 games is not nearly enough time to "prove" he can hit at the ML level. As such, you have to look at the skill package. And Clement is better than everyone other than Raul, Ichiro, Beltre, Lopez. His 15-game slump earlier this year doesn't change that.

You don't "play the kids" in May just for the sake of playing kids. That's second half stuff.

Sure you do. Teams do it all the time.

Geoff - But if Ibanez's experience from years ago doesn't count, then he and Reed are a wash at 1b. And Reed's better defensively in the outfield. I see your point, but I think that if we're not at the point of trying the "in theory v. in practice" of Raul at 1b now, we certainly will be by the ASB. :)

And I just looked now - 3 seats in row 3 of the upper deck, 1st base side infield, for Saturday night at Cheney Stadium to watch the Rainiers would be $18. Or to put it another way, I could go see a .500 AAA team with my wife and kid for the price of seeing a last-place team in the 300s by myself. Hm.

"11:27 AM, Jun 16, 2008

>>>The M's aren't dumber than any of you when it comes to baseball

Sorry Geoff, you'll have to offer a bit more factual support for this. I believe that most of the posters here could make better baseball decisions than the M's front office. How many moves have they made that have been mind-bogglingly stupid, even without the benefit of hindsight.

- Giving away Carlos Guillen for free
- The Soriano-for-HoRam debacle
- Trading for Vidro (.600 OPS DHs are littering AAA rosters)
- Signing mediocrities to fill the rotation (anyone with half a brain could have seen beyond Washburn's one year flashy ERA)

The evidence speaks for itself."

AMEN BROTHER!!!!! How many of us have been screaming this for a long time?

"A prospect coming up now and doing well, with no real pressure for the team to win every night, won't be the same as doing it when something is at stake next season."

What you fail to acknowledge with this statement, GEOFF, is that the players trying to earn a spot in the Big Leagues are under a great deal of PERSONAL pressure to perform. Jeremy Reed has had the experience of getting that opportunity and losing it. He knows what the stakes are. Jeff Clement will be under no illusions when he gets his next shot, that he needs to show something, or his professional career will be in doubt. It's hard to know what Wlad Balentien is thinking, but with the number of times that Reed has played in RF, he must be feeling the very real pressure, too.

Again, the pressure of the team being in the hunt is not the only kind of significant pressure that is at play here.

This organization has become a cargo cult. They seem to be doing things that look like what successful teams do, but confusing form and function.

I'm not declaring that M's management are idiots, or making a blanket call to "play the kids!". But, I am declaring I currently see nothing that resembles an long, or even short, range plan.

I just see a lot of knees bent running about.

And ScottM - if teams were really worried about a young player performing when there is "something to play for," you wouldn't see those players playing.

Yet they do, ALL THE TIME. I wonder why the Red Sox, for example, used Pedroia all year in 2007, or brought up Lester, Buchholz, and Ellsbury in the middle of a pennant race.

Balentien is a rookie, and letting him rot on the bench while stuck in this nasty slump is not a good idea.

Now that being said, there is a limit, You don't just let him flail out ther for the rest of the season. But I do think he needs to the time to work out of the slump.

As for personel moves, you should see them today, but as you just heard, the FO is so disconected with reality and their fan base, its isn't going to be what we are all expecting. So be prepared for a move that makes little to no sense.

Having Reed at 1B is just a waste of defensive talent. Ibanez needs to be there or DHing. Who knows how many runs he has cost us out there, I may just start keeping track. Point is Ibanez is horrible in LF, he has been bad since the day we signed him and it in unacceptable. Move a BAD outfielder to 1B, not a good one.\

Clement struggled in 48 AB's but Vidro has struggled for 200...and yet he hits in the 3rd, 4th and 5th holes every night. Once again unnacceptable. Clement has proven he has nothing left ot learn at the plate in AAA and struggle in his first 48 AB's or not, he needs to be back up here.

I really and just baffled by the way this orginization has been run the past 5 years and I really never thought I would say this but...I miss Pat.

Actually, it probably is as simple as "playing the kids". That's what teams do when they rebuild. The kids play, they experience losing for a while, then if they're good players, they become a good team. There are two teams in Florida that are doing just that and we get to see one of them for the next three days. We're going to have to "play the kids", endure our 100+ losses this season, and then probably do so again next season. Stop-gaps are not going to help. That's why Kansas City continues to go nowhere.

Ethan,

What the next headline should say is

" M's fire Bavasi and release Sexson"

I'm sure that's a pipe dream though.

Tomorrow the Spokane Indians have their season opener. I'll be there. I'd much rather watch a bunch of eager youngsters who aren't perfect but still have the enthusiasm for the game, than a bunch of overpaid bozos who just mail it in day after day.

Plus, the parking is free. And there will be fireworks, good beer and german sausages. Also, the weather is gonna be near 80. And probably best of all... no stinking bobbleheads!

SIOMA, Mariners! Minor league is where the baseball is.

What do the Mets, Tigers, and Mariners all have in common? They've all gone the free agent route. This idea of buying a contending team is losing validity by the year. It'a also become clear that the really exciting teams in MLB are NOT the teams that go that route.

But the Mariners have gone 'all in' with this idea.

This is the only interesting thing anymore, to see whether they fold, which will require a whole new philosophy and a rebuild with a different GM (and hopefully a different FO) or whether they 'stay the course', so to speak. We all know how well that's working for a certain politician.

Last year they declared 'mission accomplished.' Dream on.

Indeed, Adam, certain young players will perform well BOTH when the PERSONAL stakes and TEAM stakes are high.

Of the three, Reed, from what we've seen with the M's in '08, is the closest to Major League ready. Many of us were clamoring for Clement and Balentien and we got our wish. I am hoping that Clement can relax the next time he comes up and play up to his legitimate potential. So far, the inability of both rookies to show anything while here has hurt the M's this season. It makes Bavasi's decision to bring in Wilkerson more understandable. Too bad big Brad sucked, too.

I can't say anything else that hasn't already been said. This team needs to make whoesale changes, and quick. Even if we win 2 out of 3 from Florida, who cares?? We're still 26-46, and still the worst team is baseball. That shouldn't change anything. The only reason to watch a game now is to see Felix pitch. I don't think he's given up an earned run in 3 starts. Other than that, I would rather watch paint dry, do yardwork, anything else.

Sexson and Bavasi need to be the first to go. Raul at DH or even at first base is an upgrade at both positons. I say keep Vidro, as a bit player, although I do believe that he has the highest average with RISP on this team. Sorry to say it, but let Burke go, and bring up Clement. He's not doing any good being down in Tacoma. If he struggles here, oh well!! This season is done anyway. Jeremy Reed needs to play every day, whether it be right or left field. Other than Ichiro, he is probably our best defensive oufielder..

To get swept by the Nationals is just absolutely ridiculous. Every player on that team should be embarrassed to go out there tonight, and they should stand there and take it like men when boos rain down on them. There is no way anyone can explain losing 3 games to the Nats. No way!! No excuses!!

BAVASI JUST GOT CANNED!!!!!

"...tough for the team to take Raul Ibanez out of left field when it had two other corner outfielders -- Reed and Balentien -- who had yet to show they can contribute every day.... the team will be better off with Ibanez as a DH or first baseman. But not with two guys hitting below .200 and playing at the outfield corners." - Geoff Baker.

You do not make sense Geoff - Reed is hitting .275 not below .200 and yes Balentien is batting only .196 that is only one corner outfielder hitting below .200. Reed is actually hitting more that Ibanez at .262, what kind of nonsense are we to buy now? Ibanez repeatedly fails to get to ball hit in left field, Reed would make many more of those plays saving runs. With Ibanez in left you have a hole as big as Lake Washington and that is not acceptable. Balentien may now be below .200 but he has wasted away on the bench when he needed repetitions, give him those reps before you judge him unfairly. The team is going nowhere, why not play the youth and evaluate talent? In doing so, at least give them a fair chance and that includes Clement.

My the nonsense you gave spouted today, what got into your head over the weekend? As so many have aptly pointed out in the blog, these so-called baseball people have made repeated errors of judgment when assessing talent, incredible mistakes with player personnel and in game management. Their record speaks for itself, why are they not dismissed? It is a team built by Bavasi, managed by McLaren both of whom share greatly in this overwhelming failure of a baseball team. Yet you have the audacity to suggest that they know more than we do, get off it, open your eyes and pay attention to their blunders - such are too numeral to count. How have they proven to know more than anyone here? Zombies the lot of them! Hope you weren't bitten by one of them!

Party time! Bavasi FIRED!

Let's do a few minor edits to this scene from the movie "Network" :

Howard Beale: "I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's [pissed] Punks [on this team] are sucking it up and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it. We know [this team] is unfit to [be in uniform] and we sit watching our TV's while some [FSN schlep] tells us that today we had [five errors, six strikeouts looking, and ten earned runs] as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the [fanbase] is getting smaller, and all we say is, 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my [Geoff Baker blog] and my TV and my [1977 throwback M's cap] and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.' Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to your [M's GM] because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the [sorry-a$$ team] and the [lousy front office] and the [Bedard trade] and the crimes [being committed by Bavasi]. All I know is that first you've got to get mad.
Howard Beale: [shouting] You've got to say, 'I'm a HUMAN BEING, Godd&^%it! My life has VALUE!' So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell,
'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the [lousy starting pitching] and the [crummy offense] and the [horrid defense]. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it:
"I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

BAVASI FIRED!!! There IS a baseball God!!

Is this a Baghead fire drill, or is Bavasi really gone?

Play the kids
Yes, it is that simple. Use the Tampa Rays as your example. They kept trotting out veterans past their prime (McGriff, Canseco, Boggs) to sell tickets and finish in last place year after year. They finally got wise in the front office, evaluated talent correctly, and "played the kids". They struggled at first, of course, but with a little major league experience the team is now reaping the results and challenging for first. They're young and competetive for a long time and have studs like David Price waiting in the wings.

Play the kids now, and trade away the over 30 club for kids for the future. Players like Vidro and Sexson have no value, so DFA them and give the at bats to a prospect that can grow from the experience, not lose bat speed from age.

Letting Balentien and Clement get regular at bats in meanningless games in 2008 would reap huge rewards in 2009.

Not to mention this great coaching staff. Brandon Morrow was asked if he'd rather start every day in AAA or get the Joba Chamberlain treatment in Seattle. He said he'd rather pitch in Seattle, because he can learn so much more from Stottlemyre. Wouldn't Clement and Balentien progress more getting regular at bats and picking the brain of Lee Elia?

>> **: How many young guys did Detroit play in that terrible '03 season to prepare them for the future, only to see them make the WS in '06? Or, did they cling to overpaid, under performing veterans in hopes something miraculous would happen?

The hopeless 03 Tigers did have something of a youth movement. While some young guys went on to contribute to the 2006 WS Tigers (Inge, Bonderman, Craig Monroe, Nate Robertson, W. Ledezma, F. Rodney), there was a whole bunch whose careers went nowhere. It wasn’t until the Tigers acquired quality veterans (I. Rodriguez and Carlos Guillen in 04; Polanco and Ordonez in 05) and developed a couple more studs (Granderson, Verlander) that they were able to put together a powerhouse.

So what might we take from this? “Playing the kids” in a train-wreck season is fine as long as we understand that some of them are bound to turn into marginal big-leaguers, and it’s going to take the Tiger template (bring in the right veterans and a couple phenoms to go with the homegrown talent) to turn this around over the next couple years. But unlike the 08 Mariners, the 03 Tigers didn’t have much of a veteran core to turn over, so they weren’t as constrained by bad contracts like the current Mariner mess.