Okay, if this isn't the most depressing blog I have ever read, I don't know what is. I'm not sure which is worse: the M's 100/100 or the Rockies' fall after being in the World Series. The latter just tells you that the 2007 Rockies were a huge fluke.

Perhaps if they try really hard they can be in the 117-117 club.

daddydriz - And were the 2007 M's much less of a fluke?

Geoff,

I think the 103 win projection conveniently ignores the Mariner's "hot" start where they were 13-14 at one point in that series in Cleveland if I'm not mistaken. That was the series where Sexson finally did something to put them ahead 2-1, only to have bullpen blow the lead in the 10th inning.

Anyway, since then they've been 8-23. That seems like enough games to be an indication of the new reality. If we take that winning percentage and project it over the remaining 104 games, that leads to a final record of:

48-114 !!!

So I say forget the 100/100 club, lets go for the magical 117/117 club.

We are the Redskins of baseball, or better yet the Knicks of baseball.

Well..Colorado is no big shock, of course they aren't a World Series calibur. But what they prove is, even teams that aren't supposed to do something, can. A bunch of players that weren't sposed to fabulous and a pitching rotation that makes Washburn look Johan Santana won the world serious last year, well, here's the reverse, a high priced team that was supposed to have a top tier rotation and middleroad offense as well as a dynamite BP is NOT winning. It's a spectrum, on one end its a great story when the underdawg wins, on the other, its a woeful story when the top dawg loses.

When is throwback uniform day? From that point on we should stick with the old trident and blue and yellow, because this team is WAY worse than any of those teams from the late 70s / early 80s!

Geoff - Thanks for the good news concerning the Mariners opportunity to put up a new standard of futility and earn a place in the record books. Perhaps they could at least try and lose 116 games so that John McLaren can be part of the winning-est and losing-est teams in baseball history. Way to go John, capture that distinction and earn your place in immortal baseball history - you deserve it guy.

No we are the Arizona Cardinals of baseball - lots of talent, but a horrible front office, management issues, and a lack of leadership on the field/in the clubhouse.

If Felix and Bedard are healthy the rest of the year, they won't lose 100 games. They have like 41 starts left between the 2 of them. The M's should win between 27 and 30 of those. So, as long as they play over .300 ball with the rest of the rotation, they'll win at least 65 games.

Not that that is anything to be proud of.

Losing 116 games?! Wow! Maybe the Mariner's marketing folks can turn the Ms into the "lovable losers." Now that the Cubs look headed for the playoffs that title is up for grabs.

You know what's odd? Last year we were psyched to see who the Ms were going to draft. The draft is tomorrow. I haven't heard a peep from anyone about who the Ms might get tomorrow.

Are we that depressed about this team, or that depressed about the incompetence in the FO, that we know that we'll be disappointed in who they get. Or, excited about the player but certain that the FO will mismanage their development.

sodomojo - What that about winning "the world serious last year?" Is the "world serious" about anything? Can I join such a "serious" world? When are the M's going to win the "world serious?" Do you think Mr. Y, Howie, Chuck, Bill and Johnny are "serious" about winning the "world serious?" When the world get "serious" about itself let me know. Good luck in the "world serious" whenever you get there.

Right on Choska, You just hit one out of the park with that insite

What about the 100/100/100 club:

100+ wins in one season
100+ losses in one season
100+ million dollar payroll

Forget the "knicks of baseball" or the "arizona cardinals of baseball". We're breaking new ground here.

They'll start calling the knicks the "mariners of basketball" or the AZ cardinals the "mariners of football".

In terms of futiliy, we are the dog, not the tail.

Laughing-stock: An object of ridicule, someone who is publicly ridiculed; a butt of sport. - Shakespeare.

Geoff: I'm sorry that you've been relegated to cover such an embarrassing baseball club such as ours. I still think the Orioles are a very good comp to this team, what with the high payroll and low results. We are indeed the laughing stock of the league, and one can only hope that the suits upstairs are willing to learn from this disaster. And yes, this is far worse than the teams of 1976-1992, because back then our payroll was but a smidgen of what it has become since.

I remember when Safeco first opened in 1999, and Armstrong was quoted as saying that he hoped it would become another Wrigley Field, where fans come to enjoy the park even though the team was losing. Looks like they've got their wish, in spades.

On another subject: We’re about at the end of a Hall of Fame career that might have been even more special had Jr. not had the injuries. I think he'll still want to play for maybe a couple more years, but the fans in Cinci can't wait to get rid of him.

I find myself hoping that he'll retire the morning after he hits #600. It will spare him and everybody else the embarrassment of a trade to the Mariners where he'll be sold as an answer to all our problems, but in reality it will be nothing more than a sideshow. I'd rather he hit #600 then just and blow everyone off!

"It's baffling," Washburn said after going 5-1/3 innings and taking the loss. "It's hard to believe that our season has gone as badly as it has."

When you gave up two-run homers consistently that is exactly what happens. There is nothing baffling about it at all,

Brutal, Geoff! I'd put money up that the M's won't lose 100. The hope in April ws that all would go well and THEN the M's could win the West. Problem was it HAD to go well. It takes several things for a great season:
1) a superstar or two - if one is a pitcher, then the other has to be too. The greatest singles hitter since the Waners does not count;
2) career seasons out of at least another player or two, ala Bret Boone - it would take an MVP performance the rest of the way for any current Mariner to be in that category;
3) No Dogs Allowed - every hitter in the lineup must contribute a good percentage of the time.

Unless Bedard/Felix are both in the Cy Young picture, which they're not, the M's have none of those things going. Sure, 2007 Rockies luck happens, but it's an aberration.

They still won't lose 100.

What happened to "that's why they play the games"?

11Records - in Felix's last 7 starts, the M's scored 9 runs. Total.

Unless he's throwing shutout after shutout after shutout, the M's won't win very many of his starts for him.

What was the M's record when Grover retired last season? Weren't they in contention? How many games under .500 are they since McLaren took over?

I would love to see a side-by-side comparison in terms of the individual players stats between this season and last season. I am curious to see how many guys are performing at a lower level this season than last season.

My reason....just peace of mind that Bavasi is horrible and mcLaren is, too. I guess that I just DO NOT FRICKING understand how the owenrs and upper management of this organization can say that Bavasi and McLaren have done anything good.

The record book - "That's why they play the games" - the M's deserve a place there too.

Sorry scotM , I didn’t realize this was your personal Blog space and that a few mis-typed words would offend you so much.

"Keep spelling and context errors to a minimum please, we eed a pure blog where goodness and light prevail."

We "edd" a pure blog - ROTFLOL

100/100 club has quite a ring. Just another notch on a losing organization's belt. Who has the most 100 loss seasons? This would be Seattle's 4th in just over 30 years with a whole bunch of 90 loss seasons dumped in. I can picture upper-management lighting cigars and laughing at the fans that show year-in and year-out because management could care less as long as they are raking in money.

Also, with cheesy slogans like Mojo Risin', Sodo Mojo, and Refuse to Lose, I am sure the crack marketing dept. will be coming up with a slogan. "Lovable Losers" does sound good and it is true.

Geoff - There really is much to say about the Mariners, they stink from ownership to management to personnel, heck maybe even the bat boys and ball girls stink. {Was that last reference potty mouthed? I wonder} We need new ownership, management, players and bat boys and ball girls. Lets go for the record book 116 loses to go with the '01 116 wins, Secure Johnny Mac's place in Cooperstown please, he deserves it.

It's alarming and amusing to sports fans, baseball fans and Mariners fans. But not to the M's ownership and management overall, which falls under neither of those 3 categories.

If the franchise produces a profit overall, then it's $100 million well spent. From their point of view.

Was Norm on the 116 wins team? He might join Johnny Mac in the record books.

I do hope Adam is keeping track of this incredible feat of accomplishment that marks the 2008 Seattle Mariners.

You know, those Marineros are muy caliente. I hear they have a perfect record this year (1-0). Perhaps we should root for them.

Baseball players are a superstitious lot, I'd have to think someone has suggested it to them... just wear those jerseys from now on and see if it helps...

Of Richie Pentland said the following:
"There's nothing wrong with his swing," Mariners hitting coach Jeff Pentland said. "And there's nothing wrong with anything other than vision being a big part of it. If you can't see it, it's tough to hit it. And to me, when you open up your stance a little bit, it's a little easier to see."

You know what I think! Pentland is the one that is blind and can't see. There is plenty wrong with Richie's swing. As I mentioned before watch Richie as he gets set to recieve a pitch. He does sveral low uppercut swings before setting himself to recieve the pitch. And lo and behold that is exactly how he swings at most pitches with a low uppercut swing flailing and missing the ball. Maybe he should try golf where a swing like that might help. And Pentland says there is nothing wrong with his swing. I think this core of old know it all coaches need to reevaluate the team and their approach to coaching as well.

"A wider batting stance is something the Mariners hope can extend Richie Sexson's career with the team a little while longer": Says Pentland.

A little longer what does that mean a week, a month, till September?

Someone has kidnapped Geoffrey and replaced him with a cynical smartarse. Detroit better not even try to take this historic achievement from THE Seattle Mariners. They are trying the hardest and deserve it.

The Santana Strings 'em Up, 3:06 am post is my last. I'm the only scottm who has ever posted here, until now. Glad I could prove my point. No need to send GEOFF a private e-mail on this. His problem with his blog is a very public one.

With Pentland's brilliant coaching innovation, lets hope we "can extend Richie Sexson's career with the team a little while longer" - maybe even sign him to a fat contract for another three years. Lets see, we have Johjima locked up for three more, any takers for Sexson?

I noticed that the posts from the blog imposter/s have been deleted. Thanks. Let's hope this becomes policy.

But they're only a player or two away from contending.

Time to get rid of the bad Mojo
If you listened to Jarrod Washburn's post-game comments he sounded like he's given up. No confidence at all. And no, it wasn't because his wasn't allowed his personal catcher Burke. Johjima called a good game, but watch how many times Joh had to move his glove. Jarrod kept missing his spots, and with his average stuff, he gets hit hard when he misses.

The bigger issue is attitude. Have the players given up? Sexson had his head down all night yesterday. No confidence at the plate, no confidence in the field. Team mates sense that, and lose confidence in him. Cairo has no skills, but has a spark, and wants to be out there and help the team win. The team played with more energy when he was out there. Last night, as Geoff noted, was a half-hearted effort. The only change was Jarrod on the mound and Sexson in the lineup. A change is needed, for changes sake.

Scott Hatteberg is a free agent today. He might bring a spark.

Purge yourself of the losing attitudes. Call up Feirabend for Washburn. Put Ibanez at first base. Let Reed and Wlad both play in the OF, call up VIctor DIaz as the fourth OF. Call up Clement to be the backup C/DH.

It's time to fill the roster with people that want to be here. That realize now is the time to refine their skills to prove they are part of the 2009 playoff run. That they are "good Mojo."

Now I end my comments with a downer: Rumors are that the Mariners are only playing Washburn and Sexson to showcase them for trades.

Pentland was class of '64. He has more than enough experience to jump start richie and get him hitting 40 hrs this year. With that kind of offensive we can make a run into the playoffs still very early. Pentland is seasoned and he wont take no for an answer.

Wow. ScotM, chill out already. I appreciate solid grammar and proper spelling as much as the next guy, but, as with everything in life, balance is critical. A few typos here and there aren't going to kill a blog discussion. Ranting in a baseball blog about someone using the word "neither" in the context of three options or browbeating people to "clean up" their spelling - that's bordering on OCD, amigo, and will kill the conversation faster than any grammar or spelling issues.

ob. baseball - Clement sure seems to be back to beating up AAA pitchers. Even if he got off to a rough start up in the majors this year, why is he still down in Tacoma?

Good post scarapiron, I could not agree more. Prepare for '09 by evaluating the talent in the system and purge the deadwood. There is no reason to keep aging, useless veterans who have no place with the future of this team. Few if any of the veterans are above trade, time to shop those with value in an attempt to secure some high potential youth that may be nearing MLB readiness.

What do you have in that Napsack, it sure has some powerful effect in substituting fantasy for reality. Early, these M's just completed the worst May in the history of the franchise and now they are off to a great start in June. Get a grip!

blahblahblah,

Here you go.

'08OPS+/'07OPS+ with 100 being league average

Beltre 117/112
Ibanez 112/121
Ichiro 107/122
Lopez 102/71
Yuni 100/93
Sexson 93/84
Vidro 72/109
Johjima 58/101

Hoi-ohh!!! It's about time someone in the local media started ragging on the real sources of the M's perpetual mediocrity. It's become brutally clear that last year was a complete aberration and the last five years a disaster. Is this The No Spin Zone (aka the Full On Spin Cycle) or journalism?

Scott Hatteberg is 38 and his numbers have taken a dive this year. Totally agree that we need a spark and need to lose the loser attitude but I seriously doubt SH is that spark. So forth and so on.....

Please do not joke about c@#$ like Hatteberg. I'm sick to death of scrap heap "Proven Veterans". They're supposed to be patches, not the core of your team.

Take the blue pill, play the prospects.

To Scrapiron:

"Now I end my comments with a downer: Rumors are that the Mariners are only playing Washburn and Sexson to showcase them for trades."

I don't consider that a downer - we need only to get value in return, say a used Spezio bobblehead, or so.
Some players are worth more gone than here.

Geoff,

I wonder if the Mariners are the charter members of another 100/100 club. How amny teams have managed to have a 100 win season and a 100 loss season in the same decade.

Play the prospects! That's the ticket to a more upbeat and exciting remainder of the season. The '08 veterans are done, stick a fork in 'em, they are toast. Dump the complete losers - Sexson, Washburn, Vidro, Cairo - trade those with some trade value - Ibanez, Beltre, Batista, Johjima - time to move on, its long over in '08.

Evaluate the best talent in the system and give them a chance to play for '09. Acquire the best prospects thought to be near major league ready and dump the deadwood, including McLaren.

Paging Dr. Kavorkian!!!!!

'If Johjima would stop putting down the signs in Japanese I could be a contender.' -Washburn

Washburn - Why not learn the language and play a few years in Japan? Better yet, might we trade WashBUM to a Japanese team, its bound to be an improvement. Sexson as a throw in. They both might improve their game and international dignity.

Put an end to this team, they are losers.

Why dont we pick up Stoodabaker off waivers while we can? his ops of 780 isnt any worse than most guys on the team.

I have been waiting for this blog topic for weeks!

Great work Geoff... would love to see the top ten highest $ amount / loss adjusted for inflation in MLB history... if you can get that you will really impress me...

"Hello," says Chuck, "it is nice to hear from you this morning, Mr. Y."

"When are you going to shape up the 'Water Warriors' team image and replace some of the negativity associated with this team/" asks Mr. Y of Chuck Armstrong. He continues, "Last night I watched that bum McLaren give away another game. My clients and I feel that this team is losing face with our standards, we are sending a Japanese management team to take over the front office and field management duties. Have those bums Bavasi and McLaren packed and ready to leave. You do this or I will replace your sorry arse. I am sick to death of this losing and we don't accept it in Japan," says Mr. Y.

"Thanks Mr. Y, we appreciate your confidence and vote of faith in the job that Bavasi and McLaren are doing. We know it is not the players, they are exceptional veterans who only need to live up to last years standards, but at your request we will sign as many of them as we can to long term contracts.' responds Chuck.

"Bill take note of my response to Mr. Y and get those contracts extended, we need to lock Sexson up for another three years. Good work on Johjima's contract, we are lucky you know your job so well and I can assure you that Mr. Y is very pleased with you," concludes Chuck.

A few weeks ago I thought the M's still had a shot to turn the season around. Now I'm convinced it's over. Time to blow-up the failed squad and clean house: Bavasi, McLaren should go. Let Perlozzo take over in the interim. Get rid of Sexson, Washburn if you can. If the owner paid any attention, the front office should go too. Who knows, maybe shop Ichiro around...he can't be too happy with his current situation...OK, now back to the real world: Status Quo anyone?

The real reasons for the 2008 season failure is not Betancourt's alleged step back in defense. Please quote a major league scout that shares your opinion about this misconception on his defense, Geoff.

The problem is not Balentien's swinging and missing, and it's certainly not from having a lack of good options on the bench for a pinch hitter. It has not had any significant impact on the season. This is the American League we don't use the pinch hitter for double switches every game.

The following are the real reasons for 2008:

John McLaren's consistent poor baseball strategy and decisions.
Jose Vidro=$8.5 million .615 OPS (turns 34 August)
Ichiro Suzuki=$17 million .737 OPS (turns 35 October)
Richie Sexson=$14 million .698 OPS (turns 34 December)
Adrian Beltre=$12 million .785 OPS (turns 30 April)
Carlos Silva=$8 million, 6.00 ERA/69 IP/12 starts (turns 30 April)
Jarrod Washburn=$9.85 million,6.56 ERA/59 IP/11 starts
(turns 34 August)
Miguel Batista=$9 million, 5.90 ERA/61 IP/12 starts
(turns 38 February)

I also find it odd that Clement gets Geoff vote of confidence to replace Vidro at this point in the year, yet Balentien being replaced by Reed is okay. Both Clement and Balentien have struggled. I can admit I was wrong about Wladimir being able to start out the gate strong. Still believe he can increase his numbers if given the rest of the season to play since 2008 is a wash now.

I agree 100 percent with Geoff's opinion of Putz's bad outings. However, I do not believe using Morrow in the 9th helps Putz out as suggested. I also believe Putz's struggles is a minor problem right now. I do not believe Putz is a huge part of the M's future as Geoff stated. Closers are very replaceable, you may want to move him at the deadline to avoid paying him $13.6 million the next two years. Mark Lowe could be our future closer.

Brandon Morrow needs to start right away and start getting stretched out. The fact he has developed so much in little time as a reliever should indicate he would be wasted in the pen. I have been very impressed with Morrow's command of his fastball, the velocity was always there. When you don't have movement on your 4-seamer and you can paint the corners you can dominate. That's what we have seen so far. His breaking ball has looked nice also.

The truth about Perlozzo is that he and Mac dont agree on the obvious things.. Bloomquist should be a t3rd, sexson should be on the bench, but their fued has been going on for awhile. Whats to note is that Perlozzo managing this team could turn things for Ibanez and crew. Lets just hope that Pentland stays away from Bloomquist before he ruins that beautiful swong.

so--how is it going to change?At least when Lou was around there was some spark--motivation and excitement--Is a new field boss the answer??

there are a lot of bad propositions on this blog, but putting Bloomquist at 3rd has to take the cake.

You misread that, he said "Bloomquist should be a t3rd".

Steve - Novice is only assuring us that there are options including Wee Willie at third in lieu of the age plus two wonder that is Beltre. Soon we may lose Willie to the swirling trade rumors which accompany the deadline for contenders to acquire exceptional players who seem likely to turn around a loser or spark a contender. Surely the M's could use such a spark plug in their lineup, if they honestly mean to compete in '08 - lol.

"The latter just tells you that the 2007 Rockies were a huge fluke."

Tulowitzki - out
Holliday - out
Barmes - out
Hawpe - out
Hirsch - out

Many of the Rockies issues can be attributed here. I don't think it's fair to call them a fluke - they made it to the series - that isn't easy - ask us Mariner fans.

When things get altered - things can change drastically - Geoff points out there have been no signifcant injuries in Sea-town this year, but they're 21-37...because they stink and they're managed just as bad.

I predicted 30-under .500 by All-Star break, but they get there sooner. Watched some of the game last night and they are just a meek little team. Washburn is so poor - why does he EVER pitch up in the zone? His high-zone pitches get crushed. Billy Butler got sent down from KC recently - I happened to attend the game @ Safeco where he his only bomb of the year - off Washburn - and it was crushed. If I was Wash - the ball would be toward the dirt - period.

I also enjoyed Sexson's new open stance that he closed as he swung....if he's going to open it, then he needs to keep that stride toward the pitcher - not close if off toward the right side and jam himself. The oppo hit he got was good to see, althugh it appeared he was fooled and just got to it late.

Signs of adjustment though and that's all you can ask for....besides a couple of W's.

Oh, I wish it was easier to cheer for another team. :(

I'll give the FO Sexson, although many of use saw him as what he was a guy with a long swing that had a lot of holes, who who decline quickly and steeply. The money they thre at him was just way too much to pay a 1B.

I won't give this FO a pass on Washburn, Ramirez, Vidro, Batista, or Silva........that doesn't take into account crap contracts like Spiezio, Aurillia, Everrett, Cairo, etc........while some of these may not be horrid expenses in and of themselves, but taken together its a sign this GM and his buddies have no clue as to how to put together a roster. Yeah, lets extend a catcher for three years....right at the point catchers go into steep decline....but wait, we just drafted a kid #3 who is a catcher, and who is ready to play (although at 1B more than catcher)....eh, i thought the Clement pick was terrible anyway.....I'd never draft a catcher, especially in the 1st round.

The 2007 M's were a huge fluke, not quite on the 2001 scale, but a fluke none the less.......it was that one decent season in the midst of 5 yrs of crap that gave everyone here hope. Enough hope that we gutted our farm system for a 29 yr old LHP pitcher (who is great when healthy), who is gonna be long gone by the time this team is competitive again.

Whicj bring me to my big point....by the time this team is ready to compete, Ichiro, Ibanez, Kenji, Beltre, and every pitcher not named Felix will be gone or in decline.......great roster management.........but i'm sure we'll address that by signing some FA castoff who had one good year 5 years ago.

I agree that Bloomquist would spark a team looking to trade for him. While we could grab a few great prospects in return, i dont think we should make this move. Willie is more or less a foundation we should be biulding around, if we trade him we are just admiting we are starting over.

Oly Mike,

From what I have seen, the reason Sexson's swing is a low uppercut is because he swings at so many pitches in the dirt, so he must be preparing himself to swing at the pitch in the dirt.

I am not a professional (obviously), but after watching him in just one game I knew to pitch him away and in the dirt. He will swing every time. If I saw that I know other teams are seeing it.

I think that scottM or scotM whomever is just trying to get something that is affiliated with the Mariners to hold a higher standard than the team is. Just because our team stinks to high heavens doesn't mean that we need to let them pull us down into the great abyss in our conversations as well.

We can all police ourselves and be accountable for what we say right or wrong. We all need to try and keep our collective heads up. Try not to get any of what the Mariners are soaked in on us. That stuff seems hard to wash off.

NIce Larry Stone piece on Griffey.

PROJECTED LINEUP FOR 2009: I'm not saying this is good or bad, I'm just trying to make what I think is a fairly accurate prediction after a 100-loss season and the hopeful exit of Bavasi and McLaren.

GM: Larry Beinfest (Current Marlins GM)
Manager: Willie Randolph (Mets collapse in second half and he's fired)

CF: Ichiro
2B: Lopez
3B: Beltre
1B: Clement / Ibanez
DH: Ibanez / Clement
RF: Griffey / Reed
LF: Balentien
C: Johjima / Clement
SS: Betancourt

Starters:
1. Felix
2. Bedard
3. Morrow
4. Silva
5. Free agent / Dickey / Batista

Closer: Putz
Setup: Lowe/Green/O'Flaherty

Note: I can see Reed being packaged in a trade for Griffey this season or during the offseason.
I also think the team will re-sign Ibanez to a two-year deal with an option for a third after 2008.

Predicted number of wins: 82 (third place AL West)

MOVING ON TO 2010:

CF: Ichiro
2B: Lopez
1B: Clement
RF: Griffey
DH: Ibanez / Griffey
LF: Balentien / free agent signing if Balentien flops
SS: Betancourt
C: Johjima / Clement
3B: Matt Tuiasosopo / Triunfel / Free agent

Starters:
1. Felix
2. Morrow
3. Feierabend / Rich Dorman (Currently in AA)
4. Silva
5. Aumont

Closer: Putz
Setup: Lowe/Green/O'Flaherty

Projected record: 74 wins (last place AL West)

Note: These lineups may not reflect the youth a lot of you want to see, but quite frankly, I don't see a lot of talent out there in our minor league system - at least nothing that will be ready in the next two years.

Choska,

I hear the M’s are considering drafting a big kid from Oklahoma named Clay Bennett.

I thought Geoff's post was a bummer, and then I read John's post and became clinically depressed. Cheer up, fellas. The season is in the dumper, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy a baseball game. Take them one at a time, and ignore the record. Spoken like a true Cub fan...

1:36 PM, Jun 03, 2008

"I agree that Bloomquist would spark a team looking to trade for him. While we could grab a few great prospects in return, i dont think we should make this move. Willie is more or less a foundation we should be biulding around, if we trade him we are just admiting we are starting over. "

The only thing stupid about this post is everything. Novice's basball knowledge or lack thereof is baffling. It almost makes u wonder if he could manage better than Mac

record first 27 games (fluke period) 13 14 .482
record next 31 games (real team) 8 23 .258
games remaining 104, if played at same pace as games 28 - 58 inclusive, would go
27 77 .260
to finish with record of 48 114 .296

which seems quite likely to me. talk of only losing 100 games seem overly optimistic..

Sometimes reading this blog is like talking to someone with bipolar disorder

R2D2 - The sweet irony of Novice managing better than Mac, it is poetic justice for the ages. By the way, "u" is slang for you, lets keep this blog clean and with correct grammar - thanks scottM not scotM for that advice.

When the Mariners lose 100+ games, how much do you think they will raise ticket prices by next year? Maybe a $10.00 surcharge for day of game sales and another $2.00 increase per game for season ticket holders will keep everyone away. Then Bavasi and Mac can blame the lack of support for their poor performance.. "if there were only fans in the stands we would play better"

I don't know whats more unbelievable this year, the Mariners losing 100 games or when they give Bavasi a 3 year extension.

You know its going to happen regardless of constructing a baseball team that appears to be dead last on his job description for some reason.

Mathematician - Might we squeeze two more loses out of your project so we can have a reverse symmetry with 2001? Chalk them up to McLaren's desire to make the record books and Cooperstown one way or another.

The question is would you like to lose 116 games with your proven veterans or with young kids trying their best to make it in MLB. As for me, I vote the latter, as the previous veterans have no future on this team. Lets evaluate talent and make judicious trades to improve for 2009. Anything else is living in the past. time to move on and get ahead in the rebuilding game.

Scrapiron makes good points regarding purging the team of losing attitudes. In my mind, as I've stated before, that starts with John McLaren.

What is really starting to torque me about this season is that it is boring. Very boring. You cannot have a professional sports league in which all the teams are above average and all the teams post winning seasons. But every team can play with zeal and professionalism. That makes for interesting games, and that's the entertainment fans expect when they buy tickets (at a minimum). The current management is falling below this base level of performance.

Well Said, Tom - lets go with younger players and purge the losers - Sexson, Cairo, Vidro, Washburn - trade those veterans with value - Johjima, Beltre, Ibanez, Batista, Silva, Bedard, Putz - seek in return high end prospects near major league readiness and evaluate our on system wide talent in showcasing youth for the remainder of the season. There is nothing to lose but negativity and listless performances, which are making for a horrible summer.

By the way, it is essential to fire McLaren and DFA Bavasi in the process.

I can't find my weiner! Oh no wait, richie is on the bench.

I just realized that even if we start a 15 game winning streak tonight, we'd still likely be in last place at the end of it.

Has anyone figured out how many of the current 40-man roster are at or below replacement-player-level performance? I forget the exact stats term for it, but there's basically something that figures out what a league-average player is at a particular position or for a particular common stat.

It'd be very interesting to see what one was left with if you took out all the people playing at or below the league average for their position.

Chris, I copied from above OPS+ for '08/'07

We actually have 5 players who are at league average or better offensively. Unfortunately the easiest positions from which to get a big OPS+ number are 1B and DH and you can see how poorly we are doing there.

Beltre 117/112
Ibanez 112/121
Ichiro 107/122
Lopez 102/71
Yuni 100/93
Sexson 93/84
Vidro 72/109
Johjima 58/101

For everyone who is disgusted with the direction of this team since about 2003, do not be swayed by the perception that Lincoln and Armstrong are "safe." This perception comes from the fact that the team has continued to be profitable in spite of their record.

But look at the empty seats. TV ratings are going to suffer too. Profitability is not a given and the true powers that be cannot be happy. If we want real change for this team we need to keep the pressure up and let ownership know how unhappy we are with the lack of intelligent management at all levels.

Teams have ups and downs. Seattle fans have been very patient and accepting of this fact. But the blatant incompetence we have witnessed is totally unacceptable. Allowing self serving, arrogant, and unqualified leaders to continue in their positions in spite of their failures is equally unacceptable.

Step away from the cliff. It's only June 3rd.

lets trade for bedard! we've got the hitting, we've got the defense...we just need some pitching! WS 2008!!!

Chris -

I expect you're thinking of VORP - Value Over Replacement Player. I'm not going to try to copy the table here, but here's a link to the stats for the team at Baseball Prospectus (scroll down): http://www.baseballprospectus.com/team_audit.php?team=SEA

Ichiro, Lopez, Beltre, Betancourt, Ibanez and Norton are the only position players with a positive VORP. Mike Morse is 0.0, so that gives a good idea of what "replacement level" looks like.

Scary.

John Mclaughin': "Our guys our playing our a$$es off with nothing to show for it, I stand behind them 100 percent"

Bill Bavasi: "Mclaughin' is doing one hell of a job!"

Chuck Armstrong: "Bavasi is doing one hell of a job."

Howard Lincoln: "I think it's time to re-up John and Bill's contract. They are such hard workers. What do you think Chuck?

Talk about job security, I would like to know how I can get a job with the Mariner organization. How are they not listed as one of the BEST organizations to work for in Seattle 08.

I agree with drinking beer and booing that financial pressure is being recognized by Mr. Yamauchi in Japan - he follows the financial reports closer than the team's won-loss record. He is very abrupt when unhappy and it wouldn't be totally out of character for him to order some very abrupt firings starting with Lincoln - for sure the layers below Lincoln such as Armstrong, Bonehead Bill, and Mac. Lincoln can later take a Babs Hedges style of "retirement" after the season mercifully ends.

Dear SiskoV - I am a professional baseball thrower please do not presume top give me advice, plus my fastball does not have enough movement for the Japanese league, that rat Johjima pointed that out to me during the 3rd inning. -Washburn

The reason we need Scott Hatteberg is someone has to play first base that has
a) A winning attitude
b) More talent than Miguel Cairo

To my way of thinking, that leaves either Scott Hatteberg or a permanent switch to first base of Raul Ibanez. I know Geoff has been harping on having Jeff Clement play first base, but he's taken zero innings at that position to date, and I'd hate for him to learn at the major league level. If that was the Mariners intentions he'd be playing there at Tacoma now.

I totally agree that Hatteberg is another past his prime veteran, but this is a temporary fit as long as Mark Texeira is on the agenda in the off season. Brian LaHair is not ready, and not the long term solution either. Raul Ibanez might be the long term solution, but we'd need the rest of this season to evaluate that.

A new GM might be more inventive and move more players, but I think people need to be realistic and realize that our minor league system is pretty bare, especially after the Jones trade.
With that in mind, I don't see too many reasons to have some sort of fire sale. Many of the players we have aren't great, but replacing average major leaguers with average minor leaguers doesn't make much sense.

It's going take a few years to turn this thing around because the average (and aging) major leaguers we have aren't going to bring in much in trades.
If we were to trade guys like Beltre, Ibanez, Bedard and Putz for prospects, you're talking about replacing them with what we bring in and what we have already in the system which is pretty pathetic.

I guess I prefer the gradual sell-off approach. I think you trade Bedard and Beltre midway through next season if you're again out of contention, which would bring you some building blocks for 2010.
Then you build your pitching staff around Felix (who you have to sign), Morrow, Aumont and perhaps someone like Rich Dorman.
The offense is a complete disaster, but with a new GM calling the shots and some decent free agent acquisitions, we could improve in two or three years. I don't see much coming out of the minors, but it's still possible we could have a decent offense by 2011.

P.S.
Ichiro isn't going to be traded. We have Japanese ownership, so people can forget that happening. Same goes for Johjima.

Can we buy Bavidiot a membership to "BASEBALL PROSPECTUS".... i mean, having wasted $117 mil, i can understand if he can't afford it.......maybe hire him a translator, or see if they can put it into coloring book for for him.

I'm rooting for them to reach that goal.

We are NOT going to be able to sign Mark Teixera. I see his name brought up all the time, but it's not going to happen. Why would he sign with a team that just lost 100 games, not to mention it's Seattle.

I think we're more likely to eventually end up with someone like Adam Dunn, who is another Richie Sexson as far as I'm concerned.

Because our minor league system is so weak, that needs to be rebuilt first, then the major league system. It's going to take 4-5 years I think ... even with a decent GM.

I say we hope for 100+ losses this year, which would hopefully lead to Bavasi getting booted. Then you start over. You hold on to some key vets like Putz and Ichiro (no choice), sign Felix to a long-term deal, keep working with Lopez and Betancourt, and then start adding in some youth through trades and whatever emerges from the minor league system.

Regardless, it's going to be a long-term project. Other then the fact we have some money and a nice stadium (two nice pluses), this organization is in as bad a shape as it's ever been.

Well, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing affair.....in regards to trading people etc.

First, the farm system is devoid of anything thats going to help in the immediate future, because of the Bedard trade. But....we can build a great team by trading a few key players for younger established players that are under club control, and who can play at the MLB level immediately.

Ichiro would be extremely attractive to the Dodgers, who would probably give us something in the order of Either/Kemp and Billingsly for him (I know we love Ichiro, but please do not overvalue him).

JJ would be attractive to a number of teams...Tampa Bay is extremely deep and could use an upgrade in their bullpen.

Beltre would also be attractive to the Dodgers or Padres and would bring a good return, as well as clear some money off the books.

Clement, if he isn't going to play 1B needs to be dealt, we just locked up Kenii for 3 yrs.

In our circumstance, you need to be creative, and lok at the big picture.....be selective in FA.....don't build around a FA, but use selective FA to fill a need, like 1B or your #3-4 spot in the rotation........that doesn't mean reaching for a guy like an Aurillia or Spiezio and hoping they can duplicate a career year....it means buy low on a guy like Frank Thomas or Bartolo Colon.

Stay clear of the Girffeys in trade and FA, sentimental value aside, he is not the answer now, or 3-5 years in the future. Clear as much money off the books as possible, and build organizational depth....deal from depth and support that with smart FA signings.

hazhahahahah
you crack me up Baker!
ive loved the Times for years, and you have taken my readership to a new level!
Keep up the great work, altho im sorry seattle sports are terrrible now, hopefully good times are around the corner.

My God Geoff! Enough. Ok, so you were assigned a dream job. Now that you have it the M's suck. Yes that makes your job rough. But day after day. Some days your negative articles are well written. But there is nothing about this article that isn't garbage. Ok so lets say they do lose 100+ games. Yes that is bad, but to emphasize the point with the payroll? The whole 100+ million dollar spending in baseball is something relatively new. Are you out of ways to tell how this team sucks? I'll give you one. With the draft this week why not research who the Mariners could get next year with the #1 pick. Since this years team is the worse team in the history of baseball with a retractable roof. There you go, there's another headline!

The club made $18 milliion for the 2007 season. TV contracts, attendance, merchandising, etc. If the front office gets a nice check, and the players get nice checks, and the organization still makes a nice profit what's the big deal? It takes money to make money.

This organization isn't about winning - there is no winning attitude. Its about making just enough effort to make a buck. We don't have the fervor that Boston has, NY has, or even the Cubs have. There is very little passion from the stands because there is little passion from the field/front office.

Hugh - There is no cliff, this team is in the bottom of a swamp, stuck in deep mire, and although it is June 3, there remains no chance of making any kind of lemonade with this bunch of rotten lemons. So get down in the muck and mire if you like but that is all that is left with this bunch of losers.

@Drinking Beer and Booing:

I'm with you man. Teixeira's not going to come here, and neither is any free agent that wants to win. Only free agents that want to have a comfortable place to live and raise their families and play some slack baseball want to come here.

We need a creative GM and a completely different philosophy. That will only happen if Howie and Chuck are out, and the only way that's gonna happen is if the Safe is empty.

All the talk about players and managers is irrelevant. Let's get to the root of the problem for once and for all.

I think the Tigers could join the Mariners in the 100/100 club. Their pitching lately has been good and they still lose games. They can't beat good pitchers at all. I don't mean great, I mean good. They can beat up on lefties though. Too bad for the Tigers there aren't that many lefties.

As for the Mariners, I don't know how much of a flop they'll be. The only reason they'd end up being a flop is the Angels had a lot of big injuries so the Mariners were supposed to win the West. But the Angels have that depth you mentioned. You can't buy that in one winter, you have to develop it.

Marlins payroll is less than a-rods and the Marlins are winning- and the Yankees payroll is high and they are LOSING.

Get rid of the "rally fries" and mike blowers and the curse will be removed.

Your choice - winning ball games or the "rally fries" (and blowers) Obviously you choose the "rally fries.

Could be 100/100/100 if you include errors!