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Geoff Baker covers the Mariners for The Seattle Times. He provides daily coverage of the team throughout spring training, and during the season.

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June 17, 2008 12:22 AM

Bill Bavasi on players, Bedard

Posted by Geoff Baker

Don't miss this video, shot yesterday at Bill Bavasi's farewell press conference. He discusses "white line fever" and how some players simply have trouble performing once they step between the lines.

"The chemistry, in some respects is real good in there,'' Bavasi said of his players. "They're real nice guys. But it's when they cross the lines that, like I said, some of them get the fever. And some just don't know how to play. And that's bad chemistry.''

Bavasi later repeats that the players aren't bad guys, but some "just haven't figured out how to get in all together.''

Hmm, white line fever? Gives me an idea for a new Mariners jingle. They could use it to replace those existing TV commercials, now rendered outdated. Richie Sexson growing mustaches? "Pepe" Vidro swinging a hot stick? Erik Bedard getting schooled on what a Mariner Moose is? Nah, how about a promo with all of them boogeying to this tune?

"Mariners baseball...catch the fever!''

On Bedard going only five or six innings and 100 pitches of late, Bavasi says a lot of pitchers can have days where 90 pitches feel like 200. On why Bedard can't go longer, Bavasi says it's a good question, but one that has to be put to Bedard.

"He'll have a stupid answer for you, you can count on it,'' Bavasi said. "He'll have some dumbass answer.''

Bavasi concludes that Bedard is a very talented pitcher. But he adds that all five pitchers in the rotation have not done the job at one time or another.

"With Erik, sometimes the wheels come off too easy,'' he said.

By the way, John McLaren has outlasted Willie Randolph in the managerial round of Survivor. McLaren will square off against John Gibbons of the Toronto Blue Jays in our next episode.

There's more, so enjoy the video.

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Posted by 11Records

12:36 AM, Jun 17, 2008

What a dick.

Hey B.B., who's the dude who put together the team of dudes with white line fever?

Posted by DugoutNut

12:43 AM, Jun 17, 2008

H*E*A*R*T.

That is what Bedard lacks. He lacks passion. He views baseball as a job that pays him a pile of money. I am sure next year that what ever team he is with will be the beneficiary of a salary drive season. A recent example of this type of player: Carl Pavano.

It is time for the Mariners to hire general manager who is young, with new ideas and with a plan to implement and succeed with those ideas.

How about Kim Ng from the Los Angeles Dodgers. Eight years as an assistant GM with the Dodgers and before that with the NY Yankees.

Posted by TKO

12:47 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Geoff....I don't understand this whole thing with Bedard. Did he quit and just walk off the mound when he got tired in Baltimore? I just don't think this has come as a big shock with this guy.....did Bavasi know this about Erk when he traded for him?? How could you trade away so much talent for a quitter??? and on top of that....a complete ass in the clubhouse and to the media? Weren't the warning signs there?? I now a lot of the fans in Baltimore were happy to see him go. He's quit on this team...but it doesn't matter to him, because he'll sign a deal worth $90 million with somebody

Posted by 11Records

12:48 AM, Jun 17, 2008

By the way - they had to send down Wlad at some point for a spell anyway. That'll take a year off his service clock, I believe.

They must now be thinking of playing the early 2006 OF every day. Raul, Jeremy and Ichiro. I can't imagine that they'll play Bloomquist much. I mean, seriously. They might want him to be Mark McLemore. But he isn't. I think Reed can do well. Don't forget how highly regarded a prospect he was. And, he can flash the leather. Plus, he's selective with some gap power, and he led the PCL in hits last year. And, he's only 26.

If either Kenji or Clement is going to have to take some reps at 1B, that's an interesting call. Because, Clement doesn't have a rep as a great defensive catcher yet, but Kenji, while a good thrower, seems to really have built up ire amongst his pitchers. That said - his numbers offensively are almost acceptable for a catcher (albeit if he was playing Molina-esque defense) but if you have a .600 OPS at 1B you're just killing yourself.

It'll be interesting to see what happens. I'm guessing in a few weeks if Wlad kills AAA pitching they'll bring him up and cut either Sexson, Cairo or Vidro. And, at that point Raul might get some work at first base. But - it's sort of like the Iraq war at this point - there's no easy solution. Although, I guess that's an insensitive analogy. For which I apologize to the troops. But, y'all know what I'm sayin'.

Posted by 11Records

12:53 AM, Jun 17, 2008

One more thing, and I'm going to keep saying this ---

Lay off Bedard for only pitching 6 innings that last start. Seriously - if a guy is tired, you WANT him to come out of the game. Do you want him to get hurt pitching tired? He had a tough 6 innings. Without his good stuff he gave up only 2 runs, but with a ton of base runners, then he left with the game tied. To my mind, he knows his body and he made the mature decision.

Just because the Mariners are sucking offensively is no reason to expect Erik and Felix to pitch complete game shutouts all the time. With Bedard's numbers this year, he'd be 7-3 or 8-2 with adequate run support, and this wouldn't be an issue.

Posted by Jack

1:35 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Wait a minute, white line fever...is Bill Bavasi a damn cokehead?!

Posted by Sklyansky

2:24 AM, Jun 17, 2008

I think its obvious the root of all the team's problems is the fact that Bedard doesn't interview well. If he doesn't start spouting cliches ASAP the M's will be mired in mediocrity for decades. Bedard really is quite selfish. I'm certain that he is retroactively responsible for 04-07 as well.

Posted by David

2:41 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Nah...Eric Bedard feels that the job ends when he walks off the mound. Truth is ...he hates being a ball player...hates it. He's a "9-5" guy. Whistle blows and he's out of there...or in this case 100 pitches and he's walking off the mound. He thinks "what's the point win or lose we are not making the playoffs" That's just not a professional. He's sounds like a dumb kid...trade that prick...trade him to some place he'll hate!!!! The Yankees!!!!! If he thinks the local media hounds him in Seattle....oh... I'd pay money to watch him squirm to a New York media and fan base!!!

Posted by Hustl504

2:51 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Wow, B.B. is completely delusional. I almost feel bad for him.

Posted by pkn92

4:38 AM, Jun 17, 2008

I'm a Seattle native living in Baltimore, the Mariners should have known full well about Bedard's problems. The Orioles were just as frustrated about him, it sounds like the Mariners just ignored this and thought all would be well if Bedard came to a winning team.

Posted by niner

4:56 AM, Jun 17, 2008

It's pretty funny that Bavasi rips the players HE ACQUIRED. I missed the one where he was forced to put these clowns together.

Posted by Ryan

5:30 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Another example of a player having a salary drive season:


Adrian Beltre in 2004.

Posted by hawksandmsfan

5:39 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Why would you suggest Bavasi is delusional? He's spot on. It's clear to see that this team does not click on the field. I miss the days of seeing Ichiro and Cameron playing together...you could see how much fun they were having out on the field. Bedard is an idiot, but there are a lot of folks who thought we would challenge the Angels for the division after acquiring him. I'm glad the change was made, and a new GM will certainly have to tear this thing apart and start over, but I don't disagree with anything Bavasi said in this news conference.

Posted by Bums

6:21 AM, Jun 17, 2008

What direction should the Mariners take on the GM? Bring in someone with experience such as Gillick (again)? Or, young up-and-comer such as Epstein when he took over the Red Sox?

I like the younger option, someone that believes in building the farm system and not overpaying for average to above average veterans in the twilight of their career.

Posted by ricofoy

6:26 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Festivus came early this year! I’ve been waiting for and expecting this day since November 7, 2003. And as expected, almost 5 years of all our baseball lives were wasted…further from contending than ever. Unfortunately, all anyone has to do is look at the 2 clowns up on stage in that picture to know the future is still hopeless. As long as Howdy Dowdy Armstrong and Eagle Scout Lincoln are calling the shots what’s the point? Let’s see, they’ve probably already called Whitey Herzog. Gord Ash is next on the short list. And I heard Woody Woodward is sending out feelers.
On another note, I had to laugh at Rosenthal's column yesterday, particularly this line..."Then again, if they had any guts, they would have acknowledged their tenuous position long before they made their ill-fated trade with the Baltimore Orioles". I used that exact description "ill-fated trade" many months ago.
All the next GM has to do is consult Bavasi and say "Bill, what would you do"? Then do the exact opposite. He or she would be a resounding success.

Posted by Chris from Bothell

6:28 AM, Jun 17, 2008

niner - You beat me to it. :)

I don't know what to think here. Bavasi's bluntness on Bedard could have helped a month or so ago. Or perhaps a few months ago before acquiring him. Also go back and forth on whether his handwave about who has "white line fever" needed to be more specific. Naming names would seem petty, and like shifting blame... but on the other hand, it shows the culture of unaccountability to the very last... but on the other other hand, presumably he is going ot be looking for work elsewhere in baseball and needs to conduct himself in a way that isn't burning bridges or otherwise seeming unprofessional.

Hm.

Posted by NickBob

6:33 AM, Jun 17, 2008

What an exit interview. BB seems like a great guy, and it's a pity he didn't work out as a GM. He'd be great in a media job, if he wanted to go in that direction.
Too bad he is unlikely to speak as frankly about Howie and Chuck as about Eric B because whoever steps into his spot is going to have to put up with their meddling, oops, I mean input, and share the credit when things go well but accept the blame when they don't. Some "family".

Posted by Ryan

7:13 AM, Jun 17, 2008

The problem is that Bedard isn't on a winning team and NEVER has been his entire career. It would be interesting to see what would happen if he was. Bill Krueger made the point on the telecast last night about how maybe he's given up becasue of lack of run support. Who knows!! Say what you want about Silva getting tossed last night, at least he showed some fire. I don't think Bedard has any emotions.

Posted by Beelzebub

7:18 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Can you believe Armstrong telling that tired John Paul Jones Story again, I seem to remember some of the Bennett Crew from OKC, in particular, good ole boy Aubrey Mc, telling the same story in response to some of the Sonics trouble.

Is this JPJ story going around like some kind of flu? or something? Its like little David Stern with that odd phrase "forward going" or whatever.

Get a clue Armstrong!

Posted by ricofoy

7:20 AM, Jun 17, 2008

My apologies to Howdy Doody, both for spelling his name wrong and comparing him to Armstrong. That's an insult to clowns everywhere.

Posted by ricofoy

7:27 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Note to new GM: Don't sign any mama's boy free agents who still live with their parents.

Posted by scottM

7:33 AM, Jun 17, 2008

The seeping frustration from Bavasi in this interview is intriguing to watch. Without seeing the whole thing, he seems to establish a hierarchy of blame. The white line fever problem is the biggest issue. He seems to be asking why it is that every night, one or another part of this TEAM falls short. In his earlier comments about Jose Guillen, he says that Guillen may have been an odd character in the clubhouse, but that, for reasons he can't explain, he helped this team keep a winning focus between the white lines.

The Bedard comments are secondary and in response to specific questions. At no time does he blame this pathetic season on Bedard, or for the white line fever, but his respect for Bedard as a professional is minimal. He likes Bedard talent as a pitcher, but he doesn't have any respect for Bedard's character or demeanor, on or off the field. Interestingly, we may never find out if Bedard would elevate his game if he were playing for a contender. This M's freefall is arguably worse than the environment he had in Baltimore.

It's clear that Bavasi hasn't figured out why the wheels came off his assembled team. And, of course, he's asking that question as he leaves his post. It would have been nice to see the whole interview to judge whether he is holding himself accountable along with the players. Hard to tell with just bits and pieces.

Posted by Mr. X

7:35 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Moving Ichiro to RF makes about as much sense as moving Beltre to 1st base after a Sexson DFA, and platooning Cairo and Bloomquist at 3rd. The good news is, he never has to worry about getting the ole uniform dirty now. It's much easier to cadillac in right field. Not as much activitiy. He's already got the contract, so there's no need for him to play center anymore if his handpicked manager can get him out of it. It's true that there's no "I" in Team, but there are two of them in Ichiro.

Oh, I promised someone (Flatiron?) a two sentence definition of baserunning. Baserunning is something that is done while the ball is in play. Basestealing is not baserunning. That was easy, right? Any good athlete with above-average speed can be great at stealing bases. It takes intelligence and a higher "baseball IQ" to be a good or great baserunner. Ichiro is a below-average baserunner. It's obvious every time he's out there with the ball in play.

Posted by The Who

7:48 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Maybe take a "Flatiron" to Faceplant, Mr. X.

Posted by Mr. X

8:01 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Was it Faceplant? I can't keep the two of them straight. Maybe I need to spend some more time on here.

Posted by leighanneo'sfan

8:04 AM, Jun 17, 2008

He is a jerk

Posted by Ryan

8:08 AM, Jun 17, 2008

" He is a jerk"


Are we talking about Bedard?? If so, then I agree. He is a pompass ass who doesn't talk to the media or his teammates.

Posted by leighanneo'sfan

8:14 AM, Jun 17, 2008

He does have a bad attitude and the only time he signed autographs seemed to be when his family was in balty.
His daughter was adorable and the mother is a doll. Just about everyone seemed to like them at the field and we saw them a few times leaving with erik while he was hugging holding hands with the mom leaving the tunnel- about the only time we saw him with emotions.
Glad to see him gone.
go o's and good luck to your team

Posted by Adam

8:18 AM, Jun 17, 2008

WOW.

Thanks for bumping up Bedard's trade value before you go, Bill.

I wonder if Bavasi's thoughts on Bedard are widely-held in the organization. If so, it's hard to see an extension.

The Bedard trade is gaining momentum to be the worst in franchise history.

Posted by scottM

8:34 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Adam, I think Bedard and his agent would have already extended if so inclined. The thought expressed that Bedard will probably most want to play for the Toronto Blue Jays when it's time for his FA payday also makes sense. When the Bedard trade went down, many of us in this blog were hoping that Bavasi had more assurance from Bedard or his agent that an extension would be in the works. Bedard has had plenty of direct spotlight to show what he is like without Bavasi's comments being much of a factor. He grew up (or failed to grow up) in the Baltimore organization and nobody knew how he would act in a new environment. If Erik Bedard's stock has gone down, it's first because of his spotty performance on the field in '09, and secondly because of his immaturity off the field. This said, I agree with Bavasi that he has a great deal of pitching talent. There will be plenty of teams rightfully interested in his services. I just hope the M's don't have an "unload him at all costs" attitude.

Am I the only one left who thinks that this team, without being blown up, can add a few key pieces, and compete for the playoffs in 2009?

Posted by Adam

8:39 AM, Jun 17, 2008

ScottM - I agree about Bedard.

Re: 2009 - where do the new pieces come from? I doubt Teixeira comes here. Sabatia won't. AJ Burnette? Furcal?

If you build around Ichiro, Felix, Bedard, Morrow, Putz, Beltre, Lopez, Clement - that's a good start, but there are still a lot of holes to fill.

Posted by Chris from Bothell

8:40 AM, Jun 17, 2008

scottM - yes, yes you are. ;)

Unless you can name the exact names of who those key pieces are... and all of said names are available in a realistic trade now... and you can get everyone's average and OBP to jump 100 points... and you can get starters to consistently go 7 innings+ w/o giving up 3 or 4 runs... and you can get Mac to keep straight platoon splits and who's available in a given day...

Posted by eastcoast

8:45 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Wow - what a day... lots to tallk about. First of all, the activities of yesterday proved just how dysfunctional this organizatioon truly is. From BB reaming of Bedard, to Mac suddenly moving Ichiro to RF once BB is gone. Is anyone else reading into that move??

Geoff - thanks bunches for your unique and in-depth coverage of this team that drives us nuts.. it is much appreciated. I just want to comment on the on the field issues, because clearly there are more moves in store AB (after Bavasi). Do you truly believe there is a difference between a 99 and 100 loss season or are you just trying to sell the company line, or playing devils advocate? You say the M's are worried about being able to field a competitive team, score more than 2 runs a game, that hitting now when it doesn't matter doesn't equate to hitting next spring.

All valid points... except for the fact that the M's aren't competitive now, and can't score more than 2 runs a game - and we are closing in on the halfway point of the season. Keeping things status quo gives as much chance of preventing 100 losses as playing 2 or 3 rookies does. So if not now, when? August? September? If we agree that the season is lost, then why shouldn't we start making changes now and evaluating the talent that we will have going into next season. In my view, making no changes is a waste of some very valuable time that this club could be using to evaluate guys like Reed and Clement. I agree with you that hitting now doesn't mean you will hit next spring, but you have to admit that it will provide some experience that AAA can't provide. And I would rather find out now if Reed and Clement are capable of being every day MLB players now, instead of next spring. Rookies are playing all over MLB and contributing.. on good teams, on bad teams, but the M's seem to have some freaking phobia about handing the keys to a rook and lettting him play. Hopefully this will change as a new era begins.

Anyway, the time to make changes is now.. not in one week or one month. We have to use these 100 games to continually evaluate what we have in preparation for 2009. No one is safe.

Posted by Chris from Bothell

8:45 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Mr. X - I get your baserunning v. basestealing thing. Perhaps because of Ichiro's speed, he's never had to learn / apply himself as much around finer points of baserunning. B/c he can delay, hesitate or be flat wrong, and make up for it by being faster anyway.

Posted by Esteban

9:04 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Adam wrote: “The Bedard trade is gaining momentum to be the worst in franchise history.”

Not to flog a dead horse, but I had long assumed that this WAS the worst trade in franchise history. At least none worse comes to mind. The Slocumb for Varitek/Lowe deal is often cited, but this one certainly trumps that deal. The only way this doesn’t look like a disaster over the next 5+ years is if Butler and Tillman BOTH flame out, and some combination of Mickolio, Jones and Sherrill regress markedly for whatever reason (injury, etc.). It would be nice if we could get eventually get something for Bedard, too, even if it’s just a high draft pick.

Posted by Esteban

9:14 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Another thing about the two trades, and then I’ll shut up.

I think the Slocumb for Varitek/Lowe deal is a bit more defensible in the sense that it was done in-season to address a real need (lack of closer) on a team that was, if I recall correctly, in the playoff hunt. The Bedard deal, on the other hand, was done in the off-season based on a false premise (i.e., that this team needed a TOR guy to put them over the top). As it turns out, this team is multiple pieces away from even being mediocre.

In this way, I think that it was a much more erroneous, or careless, if you will, deal.

Posted by Mike

9:16 AM, Jun 17, 2008

What the heck are they thinking? They are carrying three guys who have no future here (Cairo, Vidro & Sexson) and instead of letting Balentien actually get experience against major league pitching they send him down to learn CF when he as at best a corner OF. It makes no sense. Switching out Ichiro for any other CF on the team also makes the team worse. Meanwhile Raul continues to take up space in LF.

It's not that hard. Reed in LF, Ichiro in CF and Balentien in RF. Raul to DH or 1B.

McLaren has no business managing a major league team.

Posted by Kulich

9:19 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Bedard performed perfectly well being a "dumbass" in Baltimore, and Bavasi is the one who made the bonehead move trading away the future for him. Bedard's pitching motion has been tinkered with (possibly due to his hip) and he hasn't located pitches this season. It has nothing to do with passion, heart, answers to media, or him being a "dumbass". Leave it to Bavasi to take shots at a player HE BROUGHT IN AT A HUGE COST, as his last hurrah for this organization. Bill, you're a nice guy, but you're terrible at your job. Go away, and don't put us down as a reference for your next position.

Posted by Mike

9:29 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Yeah, you have to like giving away five players for Bedard and then reducing potential trade value for him when your faith in him didn't work out. For all of the dumb trades Bavasi made this moment might best define the Bavasi era.

Posted by Sounders

9:30 AM, Jun 17, 2008

DugoutNut,

I have also been wondering about Kim Ng. I wonder however, one if they have the stones to do something so groundbreaking, and two, if Mr. Y would allow it. For reasons, that unfortunately involve 20th Century history. I'll stop there.

Geoff: Thanks for keeping us posted. Your article on Bavasi pretty much answered my questions from yesterday's post. So, their plan is to get rid of what's not working. That's a little worrying. 1. Because, for example, they might trade Bedard thinking he's part of the teams dysfunction when maybe he's not. On a half assed team with the way he's pitched this year it's a safe bet he'd have a 3.00 ERA and seven or eight wins. I don't know much about Pelekoudas, but having him and the FO judging who is and who isn't dysfunctional is scary. I can understand why they don't want to do nothing and leave the new GM to fix everything. It might add another year to the time it takes us to get back to contention. But you see what I'm saying.

Posted by Bill

9:39 AM, Jun 17, 2008

No wonder the team quit on this guy. Good riddance.

Posted by MRB

9:40 AM, Jun 17, 2008

WOW! "Some kind of dumbass answer"?

Sounds like there isn't a lot of chemistry in the front office there.

Posted by Full Count

9:42 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Bedard a very talented pitcher who is in the wrong place. He appears to tanking it, to get through the season, probably not.

Posted by fg

9:43 AM, Jun 17, 2008

I don't read each and every comment so I might have missed it, but, I don't understand that overall fervor to trade Bedard now. He is signed through the 09 season and thus, I think, we can keep him just to pump up his numbers. I think that it takes a bit to get your feet under you in a new place, for most people that is, and I think he will have better numbers, thus better value next year. I have no doubt we will be awful the rest of this year, and next year, probably just as awful, but I think we can see an increase in outcomes for Bedard-when the pressure of 'performing' or being the 'savior' wears off and he can be just a 'pticher'. I think his #'s then will become more like they were in Baltimore and his stock will rise. His attitude will not be a problem, i think, when we are still losing-not because of 'culture' but because of lack of talent. I am not wholly bought on the idea that it is all culture, but what one of you said before that it is strange that all of them are slumping at the same time, is indicative of that. After a purge this season though, it will be because of Truly, lack of talent, or unseasoned talent-Bedard seems to do better in that enviornment of less demand. He would be a fantastic 3 pitcher on a good team though. His personality doesn't fit a one or a two.

Be well
FG

Posted by Mike

9:45 AM, Jun 17, 2008

The Ms have 5 good players (Felix, Bedard, Putz, Ichiro & Beltre). Do what you can to deal anything else you can and get as much as you can.

Raul for instance. He's getting older. His bat, going forward, is not likely to be DH or 1B quality. Or if it is it will be bleow average for those positions. He's a decent bat in left but his D offsets offsets the O. If you can get something for him, do it.

Yuni might have some value for a team that doesn't realize he's lost a step of range and doesn't value OBP. Oh wait, that might only be us.

With respect to those 5 good players. Try to hang onto them but be willing to part with any of the big 5 (except Felix) if the offer is too good to pass up.

Posted by ChicoV

9:45 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Grand Master Flash and the Furious 5, I have new admiration for you GB.

Funny how when the pressure to lie is off you can get a little candor from someone (Bavasi).

Bottom line Bill is that you put this team together and if the Big league club is this disfuctional I have little faith in whatwever you have put together in the minors. Can we assume that whoever we bring up from Tacoma is cut from the same cloth?

Posted by scrapiron

9:45 AM, Jun 17, 2008

John McLaren: No More Mr. Nice Guy please
The whole Bedard situation reminds me of the infamous Dick Williams - Mark Langston argument in a Mariners uniform years ago. By the way, Dick WIlliams is in the Hall of Fame, Mark Langston is not. Maybe the below story is why. You just wish John McLaren had the same chutzpah to call out Bedard like this.

This is an excerpt from Dick Williams's autobiography, "No More Mr. Nice Guy":

"It was the ninth inning, and my ace Mark Langston was pitching with a 3-0 lead. Having allowed just two hits, he was damned near perfect. The Twins shortstop Greg Gagne, who batted just .265 that year, singled. And Dan Gladden, who batted .249, walked. Langston, who looked a little tired, was giving up. Despite having a two-hitter working - do you know how many pitchers dream of taking a two-hitter into the ninth inning? - he was still giving up. Because he was tired. Because he wasn't tough enough. How did I know this? Because all season he'd been taking himself out of games. He'd walk past me in the dugout and say, "I've had it," and be gone. Just like that. No regard for his teammates. No regard for winning.

". . . I saw the same thing happening all over again. After those first two batters reached base, I watched Langston on the mound contorting his face and shaking his head and all but shouting for me to take him out. (Expletive) him I decided. My duty is not to him but to the Seattle Mariners. He had to get tough, and his teammates had to get tough. So I would make him tough it out.

"But of course, he didn't. He threw up a fat pitch and was nailed for a three-run homer by Steve Lombardozzi, who finished that year with eight homers total. Unbelievable. I yanked Langston from the game without looking him in the eye, because I was too embarrassed. For the great game of baseball, and the great art of competing, I was embarrassed. We eventually lost the game.

"For the rest of my time in Seattle I perceived Langston as I feel much of baseball finally perceived him when he cost the Montreal Expos the pennant in the late summer of 1989 by choking on his final few starts. Gutless, that's how I perceived him. Gutless. Anybody can pitch for a loser, which Langston did very well for the Mariners before I arrived . . . C'mon, Langston. Let's see you pitch for a winner. Let's see you be a winner."

Posted by Brett in Bonney Lake

9:49 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Antonetti in 09! should be the new Baghead anthem.


Isn't Coco Crisp a FA this year?

Posted by scrapiron

9:56 AM, Jun 17, 2008

11records: This issue is that Bedard takes himself out of ball games. It's one thing to tell your manager you're tired, but the manager makes the call when to take you out. It's something else to walk into the dugout, tell the manager you're done, and walk into the clubhouse and shower. The latter is what Bedard is doing. That, as Dick Williams would say, is "gutless".

I guess Bill Bavasi would say "that's a dumbass move".

Posted by Choska

9:59 AM, Jun 17, 2008

I woke up this morning with hope for the Mariners. It feels great.

Yesterday was the first step along a hard road, but they took it.

Now, let's ship out Raul and Bedard and get what we can get. (I'd take Bedard for David Price straight up.) Let's DFA Sexson and Vidro, and let's let the kids play.

They can't possibly lose more games at a higher rate than they were before. We'll find out if they can play or not. And by absolutely tanking we'll assure ourselves of getting the number 1 pick.

Chris Antonetti in '08

Posted by Nat

10:06 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Geoff - thanks for the revealing video of Bill Bavasi-his trashing of Bedard seemed particularly unclassy, as well as clueless regarding his own accountability. But don't let the door hit ya on your way out, Bavasi!

I'm with Derek in his campaign for Antonetti in '09-but let me say that any earlier than that would be fantastic!

http://ussmariner.com/2008/06/16/resume-chris-antonetti/

Hey, we can always dream, right?

Posted by M Dogg

10:07 AM, Jun 17, 2008

"Isn't Coco Crisp a FA this year?" Free Agent or not, with the emergence of Ellsbury the Sox have been shopping him. Not a bad idea...

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/gallery/02_20_08_ellsbury_crisp/

Posted by Bob Davis

10:13 AM, Jun 17, 2008

I'm thinking that if they are truly set on a new GM then letting
Lee Pelekoudas make changes to the team is counter productive.

I hope they choose a younger person who can make a good change for the club.

I know how everyone wants to get rid of Bedard. Trouble is, would we get value for him? Also, there isn't much good pitching out there and we have him for another year. Perhaps, the new GM can make the type of changes that will put us on the right track towards contending.

Posted by Ryan

10:16 AM, Jun 17, 2008

I was glad Bavasi trashed Erik Bedard the way he did. I have never seen a guy take himself out of games the way that he does. He just tanks it. He is gutless!!

Posted by Ryan

10:20 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Bedard could go to the Yankees, the Rays, the Blue Jays... assuming all those teams stay in contention. I doubt he'll go to the National League. I think our best bet is either to ship him to Tampa or Toronto. Look at all that young talent that the Rays have. I highly doubt that he could handle the New York media, although I'd love to see it.

Posted by Stu

10:20 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Now that Bavasi is gone, you can feel a new and positive vibe with this team.

They've turned a corner. Mojo rising.

Posted by Ryan

10:23 AM, Jun 17, 2008

How the hell did McLaren outlast Willie Randolph??

Posted by Ryan

10:27 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Adam,


If you could trade Bedard for AJ Burnett straight up, would you do it??

Posted by drake

10:35 AM, Jun 17, 2008

I have a feeling that's the last we'll see of Bavasi as a GM anywhere. The candor was interesting, but not the best way to start a job hunt.

Not that it matters... he's got no respect around the league for his baseball knowledge.

Says one writer for the Rays:
Bavasi has been the worst general manager in the game for some time. In fact, before he was fired today, there was a huge gap in baseball intelligence between GM number 30 and 29.

http://rays.scout.com/2/762761.html

Posted by Jonathan

10:42 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Not Adam but here goes,

Burnett is a solid power pitcher. He's close to 9 K's per 9 innings for his career and his OBPS against is under .680. Unlike most power pitches he's also a ground ball guy 1.58 gb/fb ratio which makes me think he would excell at Safeco Field.

The downside is his health. He's only made more than 25 starts once since 2002. And only has 2 seasons with more than 200 innings (2 more than Bedard I suppose). Plus at 31 he's older than Bedard.

I think it would make more sense to trade Bedard for prospects. I feel like one starter isn't going to solve things, it's not like Bedard has been horrible here, it's just clear he's not the answer.

Posted by Adam

10:43 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Ryan - NO. Besides the fact that Bedard is better, he's actually got a better injury history than Burnette. And Burnette is most likely opting out of K after the season.

That said, If there were any way to get Burnette here on a two-year deal (with an option for a third) for under $25 million or so, I'd be interested. Burnette is a pretty good pitcher when right.

Of course, Burnette is going to opt out of his deal to get more money than he's currently making, so I doubt he would even sniff at my offer.

I like Burnette a lot, but right now it's just not a good fit.

Posted by Adam

10:45 AM, Jun 17, 2008

I wonder if Bedard would fetch Austin Jackson and Phil Hughes from the Yankees. Probably not, but I'd at least ask.

Posted by Bill

10:46 AM, Jun 17, 2008

I heard on the radio that there has been interest around the league in Bedard and Ibanez. If they can get 3-4 players between the two of them how do they not make a deal?

Posted by Chris from Bothell

11:06 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Prospects, prospects, prospects.

Any trade of anything close to our top people (Ibanez, Bedard, Putz, Beltre) for a non-prospect will just perpetuate the problem. By prospect I mean AA as well as AAA; the AAA system needs to be flushed of many of its current members as well, to be evaluated over the next 6 - 18 months and either be developed or moved.

Need to repair the farm system first and foremost, or this club will be forever trapped in a cycle of being the place where vets go to retire, mediocre free agents go to cash out, and a dumping ground for AAAA talent.

Posted by eastcoast

11:14 AM, Jun 17, 2008

C from B - I agree with the fact that we need to rebuild the farm system, but disagree with your stance on our top players. Someone mentioned yesterday - let the market come to you. If teams are calling about Bedard, Ibanez, and even Putz.. I'm listening. If the deal is too good to pass up, then you make the deal. At this point, both Putz and Ibanez are only really useful to this team as trade bait (unfortunately), since we likely won't be a contender for several years.

Posted by eastcoast

11:16 AM, Jun 17, 2008

oops sorry, I just re-read your statement.. I agree

Posted by RodeoChihuahua

11:21 AM, Jun 17, 2008

"He'll have a stupid answer for you, you can count on it,'' Bavasi said. "He'll have some dumbass answer.''


I love it! I like Bavasi as a person alot, just wish he built a better team.

Posted by eastcoast

11:27 AM, Jun 17, 2008

The most difficult aspect of the post-bavasi rebuilding project will be dealing with these rediculous multiyr, million $ contracts. I just can't see any way in which we will be able to rid ourselves of Batista and Silva.

Joh has some trade value, but I think it will be tougher dealing his with his new fat contract.

Yuni and Lopez wouldn't be hard to deal (I don't think), but the return would probably be minimal.
Ditto Ibanez, with slightly larger return.
Ditto Beltre, larger return than Ibanez.

Ichiro, Bedard, and Putz are the "blue chips", but any deal with Bedard is a lose-lose situation given what we gave up for him.

Having said that, I truly don't believe that the M's are light-years away from being competitive. However, it will take a GM capable of properly evaluating talent, knowing his teams needs, and maximizing his return on his few blue chips - to make the M's successful in the next 2-3 yrs. But who that is... I have no idea.

Posted by scrapiron

11:42 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Maybe "Funk Blast" can be replaced with "White Lines" as the official Mariners home run song now.

Posted by Ryan

11:53 AM, Jun 17, 2008

Adam- Yeah, I wouldn't do it either. Both of them have a pretty lengthy history of injuries. We've already found out about the risk-reward( or lack there of) with Bedard, so I would imagine that the M's are a little hesitant to pull any trigger.

Posted by Ryan

11:55 AM, Jun 17, 2008

I'd love to see Bedard handle the New York media. I would love sound bites of that. He doesn't like our media?? Wait and see if he lands there. That would be worth watching.

Posted by Ryan

11:57 AM, Jun 17, 2008

We don't have alot of chips to trade. Maybe Bedard, Ibanez, possilby Beltre( he'd be harder because of his contract. I think we may be able to trade Washburn and/or Batista. The question is, who are we willing to rade, and waht do we get in return??

Posted by shortbus

12:03 PM, Jun 17, 2008

If I'm the new GM, I give Ichiro the rest of the season in RF to demonstrate he belongs there. But right now his .738 OPS won't cut it. As it stands he's the 12th best CF at the plate in MLB. With his defense and assuming this number comes up a bit due to a lousy April...he might finish 8th or 9th among CF's and be a genuine contributor.

But in RF he's currently 22nd. Even assuming he hits like he has since May the rest of the way he's only going to finish around the .800 mark which puts him at 15th. Give him a bump for stealing more bases than other RF's and he might be 13th. And his defensive impact is diminished in RF. He's just not that valuable in RF.

The M's sign the paycheck and the player needs to do what's best for the team. There are people who would cut off body parts to play major league center field. And I don't even think it's that big a deal for Ichiro, to be honest. It's just McLaren being the big softy that he's always been...wanting to keep players happy rather than productive.

Posted by G.I. Joe

12:06 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Building around Ichiro irrational and foolish. Ichiro is not a team player and should be traded away for younger and better players. The future of this ballclub should not depend on this overrated singles producer.

Personally, I think Bavasi is not to blame. They should have fired McLaren first. He is the one making the on-field. He is the one making bad decisions and calling poor plays. The losing ways will continue with a new GM no matter who that would be.

Posted by chester

12:09 PM, Jun 17, 2008

"He'll have a stupid answer for you, you can count on it,'' Bavasi said. "He'll have some dumbass answer.''

He could be talking about Mr. X

Posted by The Centerfield Bum

12:15 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Hey, I have to give Bavasi credit for his post dismassal press conference. That was commendable, and very interesting, especially the Bedard comments.

I also like the move of Ichiro back to right field. Clearly, Balentien needed to be sent down to find his swing again, which means Reed will probably be an everyday outfielder at least against right-handed pitching. Neither Reed nor Bloomquist have the arms to play right field, so it makes lots of sense to switch Ichiro's arm back to right. That puts Reed and Ichiro back in their more natural positions. Eventually, I think we'll see Balentien in left, and Ibanez somewhere else.

Posted by shortbus

12:16 PM, Jun 17, 2008

I'm a fan of Ichiro, but he's 34 and may have finally started the decline that has been predicted by some for the last couple of years. Or maybe not. He's a unique player. He was key to the team's 2001 run as well as to quality teams in 2002 and 2003.

But I want to see him perform up to that level again if I'm to believe RF is the place for him on this team. I have no doubt he'll be willing to play Center if that's what the team needs.

McLaren will be fired. And this isn't like in Star Wars Episode II where Count Dookoo assures Newt Gunray that Amidala will be eaten by the giant cat. McLaren has no Jedi to rescue his sorry behind. Lincoln and Armstrong wanted the new GM to make the call and not to have to immediately find a new manager his first day on the job.

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

12:20 PM, Jun 17, 2008

I don't have confidence Lincoln, Armstrong, and Pelekoudas have a clue what they are doing.

Moving Ichiro for the purpose of putting a smile back on Suzuki's face and having him have more fun is how Mac explained the move. Is this the big leagues or a beer league? Mockery of the game if you ask me.

What's ironic is that Ichiro actually has not been a gold glove center fielder. He has cost the team runs by his bad reads at center. A move to right improves our outfield defense. Unfortunately, a player who hits an empty batting average at right field weakens our offense.

If these clowns keep Ichiro for the future, they need Balentien in left field.

The best defensive center fielder I have seen in our farm system is Greg Halman. This kid looked like Mike Cameron
circa 2001 when I watched him play for the Dutch this year. Awesome range, strong arm, speed, but his bat (long aggressive swing) may not pan out in the majors.

Michael Saunders could play left field 2 years from now.

Posted by M's Fan

12:22 PM, Jun 17, 2008

"....should be traded away for younger and better players." That's a nice fantasy. What team is going to trade any "younger and better" players for older veterans? If/when any of these guys gets traded it will be for prospects.

Posted by Ziasudra

12:23 PM, Jun 17, 2008

The problem with Joh is that he is one of the poorest defensive catchers today (or, yesterday, for that matter). What skills are needed for a catcher? 1. He must call the game – why are most of our pitchers unhappy with the way he does that? 2. He must give a target – he moves around while the pitcher is halfway into his delivery; no wonder they are not accurate. 3. He must counter base stealing – he may be average, but not above average. 4. He must block the plate on close plays – he has no clue. In all these areas, I consider him even worse than Mike Piazza, the Mendoza line of catchers.
So, if he starts to hit, use him at 1st base, where he has to do none of the above – just scoop Yuni’s throws out of the dirt occasionally (actually, he’s only average at blocking pitches in the dirt). If all else fails, DH him.

Clement, although still learning, has exceed Joh in all these defensive areas, and will quickly surpass him in offense.

We are all upset about Bedard, and I was against the trade back when. I thought, when Guillen was let go, AJ would be our new RF. Losing AJ hurt us badly. Sherrill was thought replaceable – but he had no competion in the Oriole BP, so he has flourished. The other three pitchers are still not ready to contribute in MLB, and we do have others in our pipeline. So, maybe, if we could get an AJ replacement for Bedard, it would be the wise move.

Posted by kaseyswagger

12:26 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Alot of the things Bavasi says is true especially about Bedard but the bottom line is you made the moves to put this team together.

And I just hope we can get some talent for Bedard at the deadline some good hitting prospects I heard the cubs are interested how about Felix Pie and some other hitting prospects.

Bedard is talented but he is just to weird to many little things that he goes by almost similar to Ichiro but Ichiro is 100 times better 100000000 times more proven and has more of a personality then Bedard he is bad for the club house I cant stand people who will just sit around and not talk to people its weird to have a bunch a guys joking around and then a few guys just sitting by themselves doing nothing it doesnt make a team.

Posted by Bob

12:35 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Talk about dumb answers – why the secrecy about the Johjima extension when the answer is you can never have too many catchers? If taken at face value, it has all the feel of ‘be good little fans, we know what we are doing.’ That Bavasi wasn’t involved makes me wonder whose decision it was not to retain Guillen. Bavasi talks like Jose is one that got away, but who let him go?

I think you sportswriters are barking up the wrong tree with Bedard. It’s the upper management that you should be gunning for, not a single, reticent personality. What a cop-out for upper management to say it is “responsible” and then give as the reason the team is where it is at because players are under-performing. That’s identifying the symptoms as the cause. The cause starts at the top.

Letting Guillen go was what undermined this team. Take Guillen out of last year’s team and you have this year’s team. Plenty of talent but no spark, no fire, no team personality. The offense was undermined by management, who seem to have no understanding of “team.” Those years when a midseason move seemed warranted but never, ever happened still stick in my mind as mis-management from the top, and indicative of the Mariners’ top-level management.

Posted by Walla Walla Girl

12:35 PM, Jun 17, 2008

I have been thinking about comments made during/after the press conference yesterday. The FO personnel said some interesting things. Reading between the lines, I wonder:

How many moves were made by Mr. Y, Lincoln, and Armstrong, not by Bavasi? (example: Johjima extension)

How many moves were dictated by the same, not by Bavasi? (not re-signing Guillen?)

If the GM is not allowed to run the team, and the team is actually run by those higher up, who would really want this job?

I still believe we need to clean house at the very top and work down.

Posted by Adam

12:38 PM, Jun 17, 2008

I think I've settled on an early top 3 GM candidates:

1. Tony LaCava, Toronto Blue Jays – Assistant GM/Player Personnel Director

2. Jed Hoyer, Boston Red Sox – Assistant GM

3. David Forst, Oakland Athletics – Assistant GM


Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

12:39 PM, Jun 17, 2008

You don't trade away players under team control. If you go the Bavasi/USSMariner route and try signing veteran free agents, we are back to square one. Besides I have looked at the free agent infielders for this winter, you won't find anything better than Yuni and Lopez unless you roll the dice ala Bavasi on injury prone veteran on Furcal.

The problems are Sexson, Vidro, Beltre, Reed, Johjima. That's 5 positions out of 9 in your batting order.

Start Clement at catcher, play Ibanez at DH, Thomas Hubbard at first, Balentien in left, Michael Saunders at center field. I would rather rush the AA players than see veterans hit .200.

Posted by Nat

12:40 PM, Jun 17, 2008

I listened to Armstrong jabber on and on during the post-game radio show last night, and it's my understanding that a new GM will NOT be hired until the end of the season (thorough, comprehensive search, blah, blah, blah). Which I understand but does that really mean this FO stands (relatively) pat until then?

Does that mean the braintrust of Lincoln and Armstrong and Pelekoudas are going to be calling the shots about the player personnel comings and goings until then?!?! Cuz that's crazeeeee!

So we're going to see Sexson and Vidro cut and then watch this non-baseball savvy trio play musical chairs with the present roster and AAA roster for the next 3.5 months. I certainly don't trust them to make trades at the July 31st deadline!
Unfortnaltely, it looks like the fans are in for a really really boring summer.

Posted by Adam

12:43 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Resin - The USSM route for FAs is not the same as Bavasi's. Quit pretending otherwise. There is a difference between signing an undervalued FA to a short-term contract (which USSM advocates), and signing overvalued players to long-term deals (such as Silva or Washburn).

Smart teams do the former, as the Red Sox have done with Bartolo Colon.


Really, if you are going to criticize, you should at least have the facts straight. I know it's not your strong point, but at least try...

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

12:44 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Pitching wise, we all know what needs to be removed from the rotation.

Posted by Adam

12:45 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Does that mean the braintrust of Lincoln and Armstrong and Pelekoudas are going to be calling the shots about the player personnel comings and goings until then?!?! Cuz that's crazeeeee!

My thoughts exactly, Nat. This was the proper move, but it doesn't actually make anything better. The true incompetents are still calling the shots.

Posted by Jared

12:46 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Ha thats funny. Bedard is a punk and i hope we trade his ass.

Just read on the TNT that Johjima was taking grounders at 1st base today... haha. that would be interesting to see him play 1st base. This team is a trainwreck.

WE ARE THE BRITNEY SPEARS OF THE MLB!!!

Posted by Adam

12:49 PM, Jun 17, 2008

If Joh at first means more ABs for Clement, I'm willing to give it a try.


Still baffled as to why Ibanez isn't taking grounders.

Posted by Jared

12:49 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Cant wait for a reporter to ask Erik Bedard what he thought about Bill's comments...

"I dont care, Just trying to throw strikes"

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

12:52 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Adam Cameron-

If you get your facts straight and look at Dave Cameron's off season plans the past few years you will see they advocated signing Kevin Brown, to Jim Edmonds, Manny Ramirez, and advocated trading Balentien for years. So quit your lying!

You obviously parrot everything your favorite blogs print. Your list of GM's just happens to be included on a blog listing their opinion of GM canidates. Like you really pulled those GM's out of a hat, right Adam?

Adam's source of GM canidates

Posted by Top pick in 09 draft

12:53 PM, Jun 17, 2008

With delays in getting a permanent GM hired who in turn will no doubt select a new field manager, it's looking like it'll be 2010 at the earliest (most likely 2011) before the M's will be serious contenders again. Bavasi has set back the franchise at least 3 years with his poor personnel decisions and hamstringing the team with poor contracts such as giving $12m/year to Silva through 2011. To me, the light at the end of the tunnel is that Lincoln during yesterday's press conference looked to be genuinely humbled and embarrassed by the train wreck we've been seeing this season. Before a team can start the road to rebuilding, there has to be a genuine recognition that the current product stinks.

Posted by Chopper

12:54 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Adam has 'White line Fever' and can't perform on the blog.

Posted by Nat

12:55 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Adam- exactly. Of course it was a necessary step to dismiss Bavasi, but I always envisioned the rest of the braintrust would also be gone. Who would call the shots then for the rest of this season? I obviously didn't think this one through. Hmmm, this is kinda problematic...

Posted by Howie's panacea

1:00 PM, Jun 17, 2008

USSM was one of the most vocal opponents of the Bedard trade, so *pop* goes another one of Resin's groundless "Dave Cameron pleasured my girlfriend 10 times better than me when I was in my 20s so I can never forgive him" arguments.

Posted by Nat

1:05 PM, Jun 17, 2008

top pick in '09- I hate to dampen your feel good mood but though I watched and appreciated Lincoln's seemingly genuine remorse as well, I also recall him saying in a press conference a few years ago that he and Bavasi and Grover were on the hot seat for teh coming season. But after a season that fell apart no subsequent moves were made! Later he said he didn't mean 'hot seat' in exactly that way.

The question of Lincoln's credibilitly really has to come into play here.

Posted by Potter

1:12 PM, Jun 17, 2008

I know this is old news but bill should have been fired when Jeff Weaver was signed for close to 10 mill last year, and bedard, yah good track record but seems like an ass hole who isn't there for the team

Posted by Adam

1:18 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Resin - I did read Churchill's blog. I also read Larry Stone's article, which lists those three guys. Does the fact that I like those three, coupled with the fact that two different writers mentioned them, mean anything? No. It's not like I have to come up with my own candidate whom no one else has ever mentioned before in order to have a preference. Is that too hard to understand?

By the way, it's not the first time someone on this board has "co-opted" an idea from Larry Stone. Check your 4:09 pm post from this blog entry:

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/2008/06/bavasi_fired.html

I wonder where you got that idea?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/larrystone/2004477752_stone15.html

Re: USSM - First, trading Balentein isn't germane to my or your point. Second, while I don't recall the Brown idea, (guess you've been reading the blog longer than me...) the Edmonds idea was, again, for a SHORT TERM deal. Third, are you honestly saying that getting Manny Ramirez would be a bad thing? Honestly?

Despite what you think, I don't engage in much USSM defending. It's just pathetic to watch you intentionally mischaracterize the arguments of another.

Posted by Mike

1:19 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Resin---The fact that you can't or won't differentiate between how Bavasi did things and how the USSM folks thought we should do things calls your credibility into serious question.

USSM was against Silva, Washburn and Batista signings. Bavasi signed them.

Occassionally USSM advocates signing free agents, usually of the cheap, low-risk variety.

Occassionally they want to trade a prospect like Balentien (last I remember for young Tampa pitching).

I think you are letting your USSM hatred cloud your judgement. They really have been the ant-Bavasi ever since I've started reading them. They hated Soriano for HoRam. They hated Snelling & Fruto for Vidro (and would have even if they weren't Snelling fanboys). They hated Sexson way back when. I'm having a tough time remembering when they ever saw eye-to-eye with Bavasi, except maybe with the re-signing of Ichiro.

Posted by scrapiron

1:19 PM, Jun 17, 2008

I've been puzzled by why Ibanez isn't taking grounders at first, and then it dawned on me.

Maybe they don't want him playing first because he's on the trading block. You're holding tryouts for your 2009 first baseman, why have Ibanez try when he's not going to be here.

Anyway, it's the only logical explanation I can come up with.

Posted by Adam

1:22 PM, Jun 17, 2008

scrap - here's the problem with your theory:


"Logic" and the Mariners a mutually exclusive.

Posted by Adam

1:24 PM, Jun 17, 2008

I think USSM recommended Balentien for Scott Baker, IIRC.


Baker isn't exactly and old veteran, is he? And BTW, he's pretty good.


But we all know Resin thinks Wlad's going to put up an .850 OPS as a rookie, so he'd probably hate seeing Wlad dealt for almost any player in baseball.

Posted by Mike

1:25 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Wouldn't it make more sense to have him take grounders to make teams think he might be part of our future thereby driving up his value?

Seriously, if you got Billy Beane into a a room with theo Epstein and they talked honestly about their opinion of how the Mariners FO operates, what do you think they'd say?

Posted by macdoubter

1:37 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Re David at 2:41:

Agreed. Excellent post.

Posted by Faceplant

1:38 PM, Jun 17, 2008

"If you get your facts straight and look at Dave Cameron's off season plans the past few years you will see they advocated signing Kevin Brown, to Jim Edmonds, Manny Ramirez, and advocated trading Balentien for years. So quit your lying!"

He advocated trading for Jim Edmonds, and Manny Ramirez in 2006 (as if there is anything wrong with wanting Manny Ramirez). He would have used Balentien to acquire Edmonds. Balentien by the way who still looks completely helpless against any pitch that moves.

As for Brown, Dave advocated signing him to a 1 year 2 million dollar deal to be the number 5 starter. There is zero risk involved in a signing like that.

As Adam said, there is a HUGE difference between signing Kevin Brown to a 1 year 2 million dollar deal, and signging Carlos Silva to a 4 year 48 million dollar deal.

If anyone is beind disingenous it's you, Resin.

Posted by scrapiron

1:45 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Adam, Mike - you're both right re: Ibanez.

Every at bat that Sexson and Vidro get the rest of the season is one less chance for the M's to have their team build for 2009 and beyond. You are not increasing their trade value by playing them because they have no trade value.

Ibanez 1B
Balentien RF
Ichiro CF
Reed LF
Clement C

That's your best defensive lineup and also let's you see if they can all make adjustments to prepare your 2009 starting lineup. If any of them struggle in these roles, you know what you need to trade for.

Posted by macdoubter

1:46 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Here's another way to look at this Bedard issue:

One reason he was supposedly brought in was to stop losing streaks like we had last season. That says two things: 1. We might have some losing streaks when he's on the team, and 2. If we are in the midst of a losing streak, things are not going well. Agreed?

Therefore, we need a guy who has not only the ability but also the leadership, drive, heart, give-it-all-he's-got passion to help his team win again.

Bedard is not that player. Many have tried to use the excuse that he's not performing better because of the losing going on around him. Well, we don't need a guy to do well only when everyine else is doing well. That misses one of the huge points of why he was signed.

Posted by Faceplant

1:50 PM, Jun 17, 2008

"Many have tried to use the excuse that he's not performing better because of the losing going on around him. Well, we don't need a guy to do well only when everyine else is doing well. That misses one of the huge points of why he was signed."

You are missing the point. Bedard isn't pitching well, because Ichiro isn't a leader!

Posted by Faceplant

1:51 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Bedard would be the all star he was last year if only Ichiro gave firey speeches and high fived everybody in the dugout!

Posted by macdoubter

1:52 PM, Jun 17, 2008

LOL

Posted by Walla Walla Girl

1:54 PM, Jun 17, 2008

At least we don't need to worry that the braintrust will lose both Adam Jones and Jose Guillen in the same year, thereby crippling the outfield.

Fire the FO.

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

1:55 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Adam-it's pathetic to see you constantly spin the facts like a street lawyer, but expected. So what if he wanted Baker, one player does not refute a ideology of signing stop gap veteran every year or an expensive old veteran bat. Manny is low price reasonable pick-up?


USSM also advocated Bartolo Colon, veteran Ray Durham, Geoff Jenkins. Colon an old fat injury prone veteran who just got placed on the D.L. The facts are USSM has advocated for years since 2004 using stop gap veterans.

So to the USSM bootlickers, get your facts straights. Show me a link that backs up your phony claims.

Dave's off season plan

Show me where in that article above that Scott Baker is a target! Exactly, spin, spin, repeat, spin, spin, the truth to prove Adam is always right.

At least you show some supportive reasonable facts in your arguments .

Mike-your just plain wrong here. I thought you of all people would research the facts before jumping with the Cult of USSM fanatics.

Posted by willie B- your new CF

1:56 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Cripple??? What are you talking about. We're going to be awesome!

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

1:59 PM, Jun 17, 2008

He would have used Balentien to acquire Edmonds. Balentien by the way who still looks completely helpless against any pitch that moves.

Facey- you player evaluation skills rival that of the old regime that evaluated Jeff Clement in 15 games. You must be in mourning that Bavasi was fired. Balentien for Edmonds is okay? Really? Ridiculous some you are.

Posted by Howard's panacea

2:00 PM, Jun 17, 2008

The only facts Resin is that you have a tiny little weewee and you can't get your own blog started since your baseball knowledge isn't worth Big Brown's horseshit so all you can do is go on everyone else's blog and make up the bullshit that spews out of your poohy stretched out ass.

Stop your jealousy of cameron, churchill, etc and get your own blog

Posted by Bill

2:08 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Why is everyone busy trying to defend some blogger's opinion? Who cares?


Is anyone else secretly pissed the Mets fired Randolph as their manager and no one in the national media is talking about the M's firing Bavasi?

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

2:09 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Should I speak Klingon or like Yoda to get through to you people. Stop gap veterans like Rich Aurilia, Scot Spiezio, Carl Everett, Jose Vidro, Matt Lawton, Pokey Reese, etc. doesn't work.

USSM advocated Kevin Brown, Matt Clement, Wade Miller, Bartolo Colon, Ray Durham, Geoff Genkins. Veterans just like Bavasi loved signing.

Call up the minor league players, evaluate what you have. A smart GM like Larry Beinfest would thrive with the young talent we have in our own back yard.

Posted by Mike

2:14 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Resin---Whether intentionally or unintentionally you are missing the point. USSM advocated Colon in a 1 year deal. Most of the vets you name that they wanted to acquire (not Manny) were lower-cost and SHORT-TERM contracts. These are low-risk.

Silva, Wash & Batista were expensive and long term.

Did you actually read the post, especially this part? "So, this year, I’m breaking it into two posts. This one is more practical, less dramatic, and offers some suggestions that are actually within the realm of possibility given the current organizational structure. I’ll do another post at a later date that acts as more of an idealistic scenario where we could shape the roster how we wanted it worrying about the P.R. impact or how those moves would be looked upon by the executives or the guys in the clubhouse. "

He advocated for Ray Durham only in a swap for Sexson. He preferred Geoff Jenkins to Wilkerson.

I remember the Balentien for Baker suggestion. It was last summer.

Really Resin, you are hurting your credibility by cherry-picking half of the story.

Posted by chester

2:20 PM, Jun 17, 2008

ReXin,

You are the pathetic one, you have been mocked for years in all of the blogoshpere. that's why you always resort to having multipe handles and trying to discredit everyone elses's blogs.

I knew it was only a matter of time before you turned on your recent hero Geoff.

You are so predictable, isn't about time for one of your classic meltdowns?

Posted by M Dogg

2:26 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Call up the minor league players, evaluate what you have. A smart GM like Larry Beinfest would thrive with the young talent we have in our own back yard." Well said. At this point there is nothing to be lost by calling up the young talent and DFA the struggling vets. A spark is needed and the current roster is not getting it done.

Posted by Mike

2:32 PM, Jun 17, 2008

"Call up the minor league players, evaluate what you have. A smart GM like Larry Beinfest would thrive with the young talent we have in our own back yard."

An on this point I completely agree with Resin.

Posted by mike

2:35 PM, Jun 17, 2008

didn't bavasi give away carlos guillen to detroit for nothing? carlos would look pretty good playing 1st base for us instead of sexson.

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

2:38 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Most of the vets you name that they wanted to acquire (not Manny) were lower-cost and SHORT-TERM contracts. These are low-risk.

This is what I am talking about. Stop gap players are short term contracts with veterans. This is what I don't want. The reason I am so upset is I don't want to watch 2004 -2008 repeat itself starting in '09. I think if we set aside the politics , we can all agree we would like to see change not more of the same.

Posted by Paul Allen Please Buy

2:42 PM, Jun 17, 2008

The M's aren't going to be able to do anything that they need to as long as Mr. Y owns the team. The Kenji thing and the love affair with Ichiro make this fan of 20+ years want to move to Tampa

Posted by Go outside Adam

2:53 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Man anyone else annoyed with all of Adam's posts? He think he is running the show. And is on here all day every day.. Open your windows and go get some fresh air man.

Posted by Nat

2:56 PM, Jun 17, 2008

So - move!

Posted by scottM

3:05 PM, Jun 17, 2008

(1)The poor early showing of the M's bullpen and the injuries to JJ Putz have been more far more detrimental to the M's in '08 than the pitching of Erik Bedard.

(2)The CHRONIC inability of the M's to score with runners in scoring position has been far more detrimental to the M's in '08 than the pitching of Erik Bedard.

(3)The underperformance at the plate of every Mariner batter, other then Jose Lopez, has been far more detrimental to the M's in '08 than the pitching of Erik Bedard.

(4)The untimely fielding errors (official and unofficial) by Lopez and Yuni, especially, and by various other Mariner defenders has been far more detrimental to the M's in '08 than the pitching of Erik Bedard.

Erik Bedard has pitched two ugly games where we can pin the losses solely on him (out of the 46 Mariner loses to date). In the other loses on his record, he put the M's in a position to win, but did not get the run support, or defensive support.

No one can logically say how Erik Bedard would be pitching if the M's were still in contention for the ALWest title. He has NEVER played for a contending team, EVER.

USSM, Adam and many other made strong points during the great off-season trade debate that the 5 for 1 swap was a bad idea because the M's were NOT two pitchers away from being a contending team. While NO ONE predicted this degree of free-fall from '07, that assessment, unfortunately, must be viewed now as the correct one.

However, no matter how immature and unengaging Erik Bedard is off the field, and, even though he left the game at the end of six innings after 99 pitches, items 1,2,3, and 4 above are why the M's are in such pathetic shape this season. We simply don't know if Erik Bedard is capable of performing in a pennant race situation. He's shown many signs of excellence on the mound this season. He is not to blame for the current circumstance. It's not his fault if the FO decides to blow this team up and do not have those five players to help the rebuilding process.

Was the Bedard trade a mistake? In the context of 1,2,3, and 4 and the prospect of blowing up the team, then yes. Due to the fact that there was no indication that he and his agent would sign an extension, then yes. If the team had played competitive baseball and were in the hunt, then no.

Again, look at 1,2,3, and 4 before blaming the fiasco of 2008 on Erik Bedard.

Yes, Chris from Bothell, I may be the only one left who doesn't favor blowing up the team. However, if no other teams step forward with irresistible deals, what is the problem with going into 2009 with the following:

Same bullpen, except for Morrow

Starting Rotation of Felix, Bedard, Silva, Morrow and ?

Trade Washburn

1B: FA acquisition
2B: Lopez
SS: Yuni
3B: Beltre
LF: FA acquisition
CF: Reed
RF: Ichiro
C: Clement/ Johjima
DH: FA acquisition (or extend Ibanez)

Acquiring 3 position players and a number five pitcher is doable.

Hire a new Manager with a find-a-way-to-win attitude, who expects no less from his players.

I have this sense that this same core of player will go into ST and next April with far more competitive zeal than this season. Pick those FA acquisitions with care.

Finally, if I am wrong about this approach, then blow the thing up for 2009. Why not give these core players a chance to show that 2007 wasn't a complete fluke?

Posted by Adam

3:08 PM, Jun 17, 2008

http://ussmariner.com/2007/05/08/three-trades-that-should-happen-tomorrow/

3. Seattle trades OF Wladimir Balentien to Minnesota for RHP Scott Baker.

It's not that hard to find things on the InterWeb, Resin.


And as Mike said - there is a difference between giving long-term FA deals to mediocre veteran players (Silva, Batista, Washburn) and giving short-term deals to players who might just be a steal. You bring up Colon. Colon has pitched really well for Boston. And is it really hurting Boston in the wallet that Colon is on the DL? No, because he's a short-term deal.

You can't fill every single hole on an ML team with prospects. You just can't. No team in baseball does. And to pretend otherwise is just dishonest.

So, in the end, it makes infinitely more sense to sign a Bartolo Colon to a one-year deal, rather than a Jarrod Washburn to a four-year deal. It's lower risk, less committment, and basically the same return.

And BTW, none of the players you've named as being advocated by USSM makes your point. Jenkins, Brown, Colon - all would have been low-risk, medium-reward deals.

For the 800th time, signing one veteran to a one-year deal is not akin to signing another veteran to a four-year deal. Just because they aren't prospects doesn't mean they can't be useful.

It's not that hard, once you put your prejudice aside.

Posted by Mike

3:09 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Resin--I don't disagree that it is smarter and more cost-effective to develop your own players. If you read USSM carefully you'd see they agree with us. But that doesn't mean you don't augment your lineup with low-cost, low-risk players. Pokey Reese might not have been a great signing but the cost was neglible and he didn't block anyone. No harm, no foul.

You are making a huge leap from USSM advocating signing low-risk free agents to saying they agree with how Bavasi builds a team. Go read anything they wrote on the Bedard trade or just about any other move Bavasi made or didn't. In fact, read this. If you really think Bavasi and Cameron want to build teams the same way.

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2008/06/mariners_foible.php

Posted by Faceplant

3:10 PM, Jun 17, 2008

"Should I speak Klingon or like Yoda to get through to you people. Stop gap veterans like Rich Aurilia, Scot Spiezio, Carl Everett, Jose Vidro, Matt Lawton, Pokey Reese, etc. doesn't work."

Yes, it does when there isn't a better option, and when the situation dicates. And stop being so misleading. Scot Spiezio, and Jose Vidro are not examples of veteran stopgaps. Those guys were acquired with the intention of them being fixtures at the position, and they both had multi year deals.

Short term stopgaps aren't the problem. The problem is the M's poor talent evaluation, and the signing veterans on the wrong side of 30 to multi year deals.

Posted by Nat

3:11 PM, Jun 17, 2008

paul allen please buy- I don't know that Mr. Yamauchi was necessarily instrumental in signing Johjima and/or Ichiro. There's been a lot of speculation on this blog about it. But just because it's repeated doesn't make it so. No one in the FO has said anything about those contracts one way or another - being made at the behest of Mr. Yamauchi. You can speculate til the cows come home, but it doesn't make it true.

One thing I DO know- this FO has initiated a number of contracts with over-the-hill players, almost all of which baffle me. But it's a good point and would make an interesting question for Geoff to ask the FO.

Posted by Leave Your Mother's Basement Adam

3:21 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Absolutely agree with you, Go Outside Adam @ 2:53 PM

Posted by Paul Allen Please Buy

3:29 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Nat I am not Anti-Ichiro/Joh by any means, infact i like them. I just want to make sure that nothing is off the table and that we don't have an owner who is way too involved. I think Ichiro has the trade value of any of our players. I think we could trade him to Boston or LAD for some really good players. and Joh does have value for a team like Houston or Colorado so maybe we could get a young guy or two for him. maybe it's just me.

Posted by Section 329

3:30 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Regarding the Johjima extension: According to Geoff in his 9:05 PM entry in yesterday’s game thread: “Lincoln told me that it was Allan Nero, Johjima's agent, who first approached the M's with the extension idea. After that, it was primarily the team's owner, Hiroshi Yamauchi, Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong who did the deal. Bavasi had limited involvement in it.”

Posted by Chris from Bothell

3:30 PM, Jun 17, 2008

scottM - "Finally, if I am wrong about this approach, then blow the thing up for 2009. Why not give these core players a chance to show that 2007 wasn't a complete fluke?"

They did. It was called 2008, April through mid-June. :)

Seriously - do you have names in mind of free-agent 1B, DH and LF who will be (paraphrasing from recently in the thread) low-cost, medium-risk, 1-year-deal guys? Who will provide not only the 100+-point increase in avg/obp, but the leadership, spark and team cohesion missing from this year? If not, isn't your suggestion still postponing the inevitable and preventing the Ms from grooming home-grown talent for those positions and others?

This year, of all years, was the time to see what these guys are made of. And it showed that when push came to shove, they folded. At their best, the better players on the team are supporting members on a staff, not leaders. Ichiro, Beltre, Lopez, etc. seem to do better when the pressure isn't on them directly. With no one's shadow to perform in, they choke.

Maybe - maybe - you can argue that with a better field manager, who benches people for mental errors and sloppy defense, who puts the right hitters / defenders / runners / pitchers in at the right times to maximize chances of winning... maybe you can argue that would correct the borderline guys like Yuni or Joh.

But even so, that's time that could be spent evaluating and grooming minor league talent, and setting expectations with a team that doesn't have the stench of this one on them. I think these 08 M's have shown that failure is neither instructive nor motivational for them.

Which is why I say get value in prospects (AA and AAA) for as many people as you can, resist the temptation to pounce on any free agents unless they're a Bedard-like steal (the O's haul, not the M's haul), keep that core 4 or 5 people you need and churn through the rest.

Posted by Mr. X

3:37 PM, Jun 17, 2008

LOL

Resin is correct. I remember when one of the USSM writers, I believe it was Dave, had multiple orgasms when Pokey Reese was signed. He even bragged about calling for that signing in the past, as if Bavasi was finally getting with the program. Even though it blocked 2-3 better players, and was totally unnecessary.

And the overreaction to the Snelling trade was embarassing. That's probably the last time I ever considered USSM a serious information source. As far as M's blogs go, they're "sitting at the kid's table."

Posted by Anti-Ichiro League

3:37 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Chris when has Ichiro ever had pressure put on him?

Posted by Nat

3:43 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Paul Allen- Ichiro is one of the last players I'd trade, which isn't to say that I wouldn't trade him for the absolutely right set of players back. However, I don't want the current FO making a trade involving Ichiro. If and/or when that happens at least let's wait until we have a GM who knows what's what.

As for Joh I'm open to trading him, but the same conditions hold true - wiat til a new GM comes aboard.

As for Ibanez, Putz, and whoever else- go for it if you think you can get some good prospects. I really don't want to see Putz traded, but after he comes off the DL I'd evaluate him and see. Last year's Putz and this year's Putz aren't quite the same, injuries or no...

Posted by don't

3:44 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Joh is taking grounders because Ibby is going to DH. Bloomy, Reed, Ichiro in the outfield (Geeze thats a sad sack of unpower-is there a lighter hitting trio?) with Balentien coming in the mix when he gets his feet under him a la Clement who will be catching.

Posted by shortbus

3:46 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Section 329

If that's true, then hopefully Yamauchi ponied up the cash out of his own pocket and Joh's deal won't be counted against future payroll.

But either way it's an f'd up situation for the GM to be in. To have three guys above you on the org chart saddle you with a deal like that truly blows for Bavasi. Now he's stuck with this guy on the roster (you think the GM...ANY GM will be able to DFA Joh?) for the next three years during which he's liable to decline horribly. Getting a good GM in here is going to be impossible if it's widely known this is how they operate.

AND YOU WENT AND PUT IT ON THE INTERNETS!!

WTG, Section 329. (j/k...this is good info)

Posted by John

3:46 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Clearly, the Bedard trade has turned out to be horrible. I don't quite think it's as bad as losing Varitek and Lowe or even trading Soriano for Ramirez. I say that simply because I think Bedard still has value, and with the right person pulling the trigger, we could get something in return, which would somewhat mitigate the loss of Jones and Company.
If Jones and a couple of one of those pitchers turn into All-Stars, THEN I think you could argue this was the worst trade ever.
But until we know, I don't think you can say that. We DO know how good Varitek and Lowe were, and we also know how awful Ramirez was.

Posted by Esteban

3:47 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Just got done reading the Stone article, a bit of which I cut and pasted here.

“There were strong indications Monday that Pelekoudas will hold the interim job through the remainder of the season.
He almost certainly will do so through the July 31 trade deadline.
"Yes, in fact I've asked Lee to start thinking of his plan and what he would like to do for that," said team president Chuck Armstrong, who will head the Mariners' search for Bill Bavasi's replacement.
"It's tough to bring in someone from the outside, with no knowledge of our organization and the details you need to know to make those moves. I would expect Lee will certainly be the GM at the trade deadline."


It is becoming more and more obvious that the FO is not going to change in any meaningful way and, by extension, the selection process with regards to a new GM is not going to include Antonetti, Ng, Forst or anybody else that would be able to apply any appreciable and much-needed analytical skills to the overhaul (or fine-tuning, if that’s your take) of this team.

I’m now dead certain that the GM for ’09 will be either Pelekoudas or Gillick. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Posted by shortbus

3:52 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Can we stop doing after-the-fact analysis of the Bedard deal? You have to judge the deal based on what was known at the time. ScottM did a good job IMO of pointing out a lot of surprisingly negative eventualities that weren't known prior to the deal. And I think he's right to say Bedard isn't THE problem with this team.

But looking back at the deal, you could see several portents of badness that made it a bad idea.

M's offense sucking all getout...CHECK.
Bedard being injury-prone...CHECK.
Bedard being a bad clubhouse and media guy...CHECK.
Outfield defense and bullpen suffering from the deal...CHECK.
Offense potentially being hurt by the deal...little check (Jones is a few OPS points better than the M's RF this season).
M's more than a #1 starter away from contention...DOUBLE CHECK.

Those are the reasons the deal sucked and that's why Bavasi needed to go. Not because of the surprising misfortune suffered by the M's in other areas.

Posted by Sounders

3:54 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Resin and Bob:

Howie and Chuckie still might go. If they're gonna do that it would wait until the end of the season. More troubling is the revelation of Mr. Y's involvement in the Joh extension and how it's going to affect attracting a new GM. I know many organizations have meddling owners, and a good GM would know how to negate that, but still, it's got to limit the possibility of getting a good one.

Posted by Paul Allen Please Buy

3:55 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Nat I wouldn't want to see Ichiro go tomorow but once we get a new GM/FO I would see whats out there for him during the off season. I don't think that anything beyond DFA and maybe dealing for Crisp should happen with Lee. If something beyond that happens then my bet is that Lee has the job.

Posted by Chris from Bothell

3:55 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Anti-Ichi - Hm. Well, not so much pressure, as attention. Like this season, when everyone around him is fading and all he can do is produce slightly fewer singles and slightly more running errors than normal. Or when they toyed with having him bat 3rd for a while.

I see where you're going with your question, I think. (Pressure = consequences, and there's no consequences for Ichiro, b/c when have you ever heard of him being benched or otherwise finger-wagged at except obliquely by Silva or by some ex-Ms...).

Posted by Nat

3:59 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Thanks, Sec.329- I've given up trying to catch up with all the threads when I'm away from the internet a day or so!. So, Mr. Y was involved. it does kinda hamstring a GM, doesn't it, to have your immediate bosses making these decisions for you...

Which means we need to continue to pressure the FO with calls for Lincoln and Armstrong's removal. Let them know how we feel. Didn't LIncoln say he read the blogs?

Posted by Anti-Ichiro League

4:00 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Thanks for reading my mind Chris. I think that if he was held accountable a little more then he might be more like his WBC self.

Posted by Sarge

4:06 PM, Jun 17, 2008

OK who outside of NY or even in NY cares about the Mets firing Willie? there was very little coverage of the Bonehead Bill deal. I hate the stupid national media.

Posted by shortbus

4:11 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Sounders

Agreed on Yamauchi interference problem. Guys in positions like Lincoln and Armstrong are supposed to protect those below them from this kind of crap. Of course the owner can make Chuck and Howard do what he wants...and we don't know how this all went down. But Bill also hinted that he wasn't entirely in favor of the Guillen release either. It sounds suspiciously like Bill was not given the free hand a GM needs.

Posted by Mr. X

4:13 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Chris and Anti,

Which of the other players would have been able to make two little league baserunning errors in consecutive games, and not be benched or called out? In fact, Ichiro has been rewarded with a move to right field since then. Any other player would have been benched for at least one game, and would have been given extra coaching.

Posted by Mr. X

4:21 PM, Jun 17, 2008

It's hard for me to say anything bad about Johjima. He's by far the best catcher that has ever worn a Mariner uniform. That being said, the news about the nature of his extension is very disturbing. I doubt that any of the Latin American players would have been able to sign a deal like that in the same manner, by bypassing the GM. It smacks of the racial preferences that my Father used to caution me against accepting. Perhaps pride or guilt has been part of the reason for Joh's poor performance (though he has been playing better).

Posted by Anti-Ichiro League

4:25 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Mr. X, I think he is the only player in MLB who wouldn't be punished for doing something I never did in Little League. btw everyone thought I was you yesterday.

Posted by shortbus

4:28 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Posted by Mr. X

4:30 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Yeah, I noticed. It's the same troll who always tries to engage me on here. Just ignore it.

Posted by Mr. Z

4:32 PM, Jun 17, 2008

"Mr. X, I think he is the only player in MLB who wouldn't be punished for doing something I never did in Little League. btw everyone thought I was you yesterday." Whatever you say, X.

Posted by Mr. X

4:33 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Best offensive catcher, Shortbus. I meant to be more specific, but got in a groove.

I don't see a need to click on that link though. We all have opinons. The only difference is that I don't need to drop repeated "F bombs" to articulate mine.

Posted by Mr. Y

4:34 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Yeah, what he said!!

Posted by Anti-Ichiro League

4:34 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Will do X. shortbus they will no doubt put Ichiro on that team which makes me tenitive to believe anything they say.

Posted by Sounders

4:45 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Shortbus

I always thought letting Guillen go came from above Bavasi, probably Howie and/or Chuckie because Guillen wasn't family friendly enough.Maybe some kid in the front row heard him swearing or some such.

Hopefully, all the boos at the park on Father's Day have showed them that a winning baseball team requires different personalities, and hopefully they'll stop trying to bring in bogus or over the hill players just because they're from the Northwest.

Posted by shortbus

5:14 PM, Jun 17, 2008

Mr. X

I don't know why you'd isolate offense for an up-the-middle position like catcher. It's just not a very interesting way of analysing the player's value at that point. I'd rather have 1996 Dan Wilson than any version of Johjima, period.


Posted by Faceplant

5:41 PM, Jun 17, 2008

"Facey- you player evaluation skills rival that of the old regime that evaluated Jeff Clement in 15 games."

Pretty idiotic assumption considering that I've called Geoff Clement at least the 5th best hitter in the organization this year.

The knock on Balentien, even in the minors, was that he had trouble with breaking pitches. He had some early success, until pitchers (just like I predicted) started feeding him a steady diet of breaking pitches. He then completely nosedived as he flailed helplessly at major league breaking balls.

That isn't evaluating him based on the results of 15 games, that's evaluating him based on his actual skills. He can't hit a breaking ball. And until he learns to it's pointless to leave him up here.

Jeff Clement, on the other hand, has never had problems hitting a breaking ball at the minor league level.


You must be in mourning that Bavasi was fired. Balentien for Edmonds is okay? Really? Ridiculous some you are.


"Balentien for Edmonds is okay?"

You certainly have a habit of not putting things in their proper context. In 2006 Balentien was coming off a season in which he posted a .230/.337/.435 line with 140 K's in 444 AB's. He had showed rare power, but no indication that his approach at the plate was improving. That threw up giant red flags. Many people believed that Balentien would never have the plate discipline, or contact rates to hit in the major leagues. And those people have yet to be proven wrong.

And this was when Edmonds was coming off a season in which he hit .257/.350/.471, while still playing above average CF defense. AND, the only reason Dave Cameron recomended acquiring Edmonds, was to fill the Jeremy Reeds spot on the roster whom he wanted to trade for Manny Ramirez.

Posted by tomtom

10:47 PM, Jun 18, 2008

White stripes are too stressful for a Pro? and what is with that crack about last year's RF? Didn't they get rid of him because of Roid Rage?

Joh at first base, platooning with Jer... chuckle. What is next, recruiting Bonds as a hitting first baseman in the Second half? ... All kidding aside, they are simply telling the global Agents, "Our next First Baseman has to hit as well as Joh and Jer...period"

I wonder what language he will speak.

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