So can we put to bed the myth that pitching wins?

I saw a little stat from Jayson Stark on ESPN the other day. In the past 10 years or so (I could be wrong on the time frame), less than 25% of teams more than 3 games out at the end of April came back to win their division.

Now, that doesn't mean the Mariners can't do it, but they certainly have an uphill climb.

The Angels might just be the best team in the AL. The A's are the best pitching team in the AL. Meanwhile, the M's have an aging lineup (thank goodness for Clement and Wlad), very little athleticism, poor defense, a worse bullpen than last year, and incompetent decision-makers.

And as we've seen so far, great SP doesn't win when those factors are against you.

Go get Corey Patterson or Jeremy Reed.

What did the pythag numbers say our record would be again? At this point I cant believe I thought those projections were rediculous. Each day that passes I see the reality of why those numbers are actuality going to play out.

This sure feels similar to the free fall we took after the Texas game last year. We are still in the 'pretender' category.

PLACE YOUR BETS:

How many wasted pitching starts will this team suffer in '08?

When will the M's learn to hit the slightly above-average pitchers?

In 2010, will Bedard sign a seven-year $210 mil deal with the Blue Jays?

In 2013 will Felix sign an eight year $300 mil deal with the Angels?

How many more games until Clement or Balentien first give the M's a game-winning performance?

Will JJ regain his mojo and edge in 2008, or will he go down as a one season superstar? (Give me some Rolaids).

How many blown saves will this young bullpen record in 2008?

Where will the spark of leadership come from on this team, especially if JJ stays AWOL as an effective closer?

Will the M's ever record a come from behind victory in 2008?

Is there currently a line at Vegas with an over/under on when McLaren will be fired? Is there an over/under on the date when that Vegas line will be set?

If there is a players-only meeting to shake things up, who will lead the discussion? The translators?

At this rate, will anyone be reading this blog in July?

You could write the same thing about a great lineup and aging pitching with very little in the way of stuff, Adam.

Look at the 2007 Yankees. All-star lineup, no pitching.

I haven't posted in a while, but have been reading.

It's time for everyone to admit that everything that Adam and some of us more "negative" people have been saying about the construction of this roster.

This is not Mac's fault, though I'm no big fan. It's just not.

Too RH-heavy. Too slow. Too bad defensively. Too thin in the BP.

These are all things would should lead people to think that they're not a legit contender. The whole basis for the evaluation of them as a contender are:

1) They have the best rotation, maybe in the league, certainly in the division; and
2) The AL West is weak, so a team flawed in many ways but really strong in one is a contender.

1) The rotation is better than I thought, because of the awesome-ness of Silva so far.

2) Counting on the other teams to suck or at least be mediocre is not a winner's attitude. You have to take it to the other teams, not hope they fail more than you do.

Also, Corey Patterson with his career .712 OPS in over 3,000 abs is not going to help this offense.

The guy could barely make a team out of spring training.

Jeremy Reed also is not going to be the answer - we have tried him and he is nothing we do not already have on the team. He is not matching Wlad's totals in the minors and has much more service time in the majors. Just because he has outgrown AAA does not mean he is our answer. If we could package him wth Feirabend and Rob Johnson for a bat - ok. But neither of those guys is a solution for the Ms.

Wow. What a disappointing season thus far. Let's face it: Baseball is big business, with big bucks being thrown around. I mean, when an average hard-working joe is earning $44 K annually busting his buns off, trying to save some money for retirement or to send his kid off to college, it's astounding how much these players earn. But we, as fans, allow this to happen because we support the teams, organizations, and management.

When a company fails to live up to its shareholders' expectations, someone is always held accountable. In Japan, if a company falls short, there is usually a resignation and an apology to the public. How come nobody at the top of the Mariners' organization is willing to take responsbility for the mediocrity of this team despite it's top-o-the-heap payroll. A reminder:

Cirillo
Spiezio
Aurilia
Sexson
Vidro
Weaver
Horable Ramirez
Chris Reitsma
Wilkerson

not to mention trading:

Carlos Guillen
Brian Fuentes
Rafael Soriano

And the ultimate guffaw: Allowing Mr. Mariner himself, Jamie Moyer to leave instead of allowing him to end his days as a Mariner before joining the coaching staff. I mean, a guy who can pitch competitively at age 45 without steroids must be smarter than the rest.

It's time for us fans to put some pressure on this team to do what they are paid to do: be competitive and win more than lose. It's time for Bavasi to step down and offer an apology to the loyal and dedicated Mariners' fans who have watched this team slip into mind-numbing mediocrity despite having one of the top payrolls in the league.

C'mon team, what do you say you start earning the ridiculous salaries you're being paid and start producing some victories.

PS: What happens when a player like Wilkerson absconds with $3 million dollars? Why doesn't he return it to the team like Kaz Sasaki did after retiring from his suitcase injury?

ericy - Just for reference, Kaz returned the money because he was forced to return to Japan in disgrace because of the Japanese management. He was participating in an extremely public affair with a Japanese celebrity and he was embaressing the owners. It was a move to show some humility and penance for disgracing the people who brought him over here.

OK. This team is very, very, very bad.

OMG, what a pathetic display tonight.

Just think we have 2 more games of this horse bleep before the M's come home and deliver another comatose performance.

Who was demanding McLaren be put in charge?

I sure as hell was not, he has never been a manager for a reason.

His job should have been "interim" than the team should have went and found a real manager, McLaren is a bench coach.

He may not be the entire problem but he certainly is not helping.

Until the offense begins to come close to doing hteir job...We are GOING ON STRIKE!

We are tired of our excellent performances going to waste. The offense needs to do something, anything, PLEASE

PS: Washburn is not going on strike, he will still pitch like crap (sorry Wash)

Jeff Young - A lot of fans in the "blog scene" were calling for McLaren and Hargrove's firing. Everyone passed all the credit for anything that went right under Hargrove as a move suggested by his veteran bench coach McLaren.

There were plenty of words written on how Hargrove should never have been brought here and how McLaren should have been given the job instead.

haha that post at 8:48 is funny. Funny but too true. Does anyone know how many runs the Mariners are averaging per game? Besides not enough.

Adam I see you saying we should get Patterson to bolster our offense. I am confused as to how a .205 hitter with a .268 OBP can help. That doesn't seem much better than Vidro, Sexon or the rest of our underperforming hitters. To me it seems that, by adding Patterson, we are not getting substantionally better, but we would be just making a change for the sake of making a change. Based on Patterson's track record, along with his current o8 perfromance, I don't see a lineup bolstering presence. Maybe you can enlighten me.

So can we put to bed the myth that pitching wins?

That bed's not the best place to start, Adam. What happens when last year's fail-safe bullpen fails to save games for the starting pitching? Then that great part of 2007 is a negative-factor in 2008. And what happens when a balanced attack where all 9 players who hit 50 RBI's in 2007 becomes a black hole in the 5-6-7-8 holes. Then, together with an erratic bullpen, the team finds itself 5 back through the first month of play. Pitching wins, but not if the rest of the team is trying to prove you right, Adam.

Pop gun offense and swiss cheese defense. A shaky bulllpen. To quote Micheal Ray Richardson.."the ship be sinking".

I couldn't agree more Geoff. I'm sick of Mac taking the heat because these guys play like crap! This offense wouldn't be very good enough if some of the slumpers were hitting because Bavasi put this team together like crap. Stop blaming the Manager because his players lay down each night.

It wasn't his fault that they couldn't field tonight and it wasn't his fault that the bullpen has blown countless leads. It's also not his fault that his GM game him a roster that stated out with 5 - 8 hitters that suck! Then decided it would be all better if he just brought up two kids to stick in two of those spots.

This team will continue to waste good starting pitchig because the rest of the team stinks.

You guys are lucky. You got to watch this debacle on TV. Me, on the other hand, had to watch this in person.

I was at the game today (since it's in NY), and it was utterly embarrassing to watch. Sitting there in my Ichiro jersey, surrounded by thousands of Yankees fans cheering and making fun of the M's, was not easy. I have never seen a team play so bad in my entire life. Something needs to change, and it needs to change fast.

But on the bright side, IT'S FELIX DAY!!!!

Balentin is NOT THE ANSWER! I agree we had to make the move, but this guy is way overmatched. He is a career .250 hitter in the Minors with power. He is not ready for the bigs at this time. We must go make a trade and get Griffey, Dye, or someone who can come in and make an impact. I have check Cincy sites and they are wildly speculating, as is MLBTradeRumors, that after 600 the Kid comes home. Also, why not trade Lowe for a veteran reliever such as Gregg from Florida? We need one more vet for the pen in my opinion.

Why does Betancourt have to have his pants so long that he steps on them. It keeps him from bending over to field grounders, and just might explain why he makes so many errors. Check it out!

Justin I agree with u 100 percent. Wlad does looked overmatched. Good point about vet reliever too. If we could aquire a vet for Lowe I believe that would def bolster the pen.

that was a frustrating game to be at. even the yankee fans (yes, ny fans) were giving me sypathetic looks after all the defensive follies. what a waste of yet another quality start.

this team has got to wake up on both sides of the ball.. arg!

geoff, who would you say is the guy that has the character to be that vocal clubhouse personality? the guy that fires up his teammates and help keep themselves accountable?

TOO MANY INDIVIDUALS. and nobody in management or FO has any clue what to do.

We don't need Bavasi to make anymore trades except maybe himself.

If Tampa Bay goes to the World Series this year, that leaves Texas and Seattle as the only ones. How can Tampa Bay have a winning record with a faction of the payroll of the Mariners? Why does Bavasi continue to sign aging, over their prime players?

One point about McLaren: early-on, he said the hitters would be patient. When they were - but still weren't scoring runs - he said they needed to swing more at the first-pitch strikes. See how that can seem a bit inconsistent? That's all I have to say on that.

There are just so many holes in this team (starting pitching notwithstanding) and my sense is the FO and the players just can't rise to the occasion in their areas of responsibility and performance. Was the Vidro signing really wise? Should they have let Guillen go? Ichiro hitting under .300. Joh hitting under .200. Lowe not back from arm surgery. RRS good one game - not so much the next. EO'F in the minors.

Man, it isn't about jumping off the cliff or panicking - it's about indifference, not really caring that much anymore because it's too depressing to watch all the SP performances (even Washburn once in a while) wasted, the errors (4 tonight!) and the gut feeling that the hitters just can't get it done - not now, not in June, not in September (unless they're completely out of it and then, of course, they'll all look like the Diamondbacks).

I gotta say, I love baseball, but I just can't maintain interest in a team that flails so badly. It's pretty sad, really.

all you bloggers on here throw your little rants, but yet you're the ones lining up at Safeco field every F'ing night blowing your hard earned money on this joke of a team. You want to make a real statement???? Stop posting garbage night after night on this blog, and flat out stop showing up to the Safe. Your blogs aren't going to change anything, but not showing up to the games will. I got rid of my season tickets in 2006, and I'm not going to another game until some major changes happen. I'd love top see Safeco completely empty when the team gets back. I really wish the contracts in MLB were like those in the NFL.....then you wouldn't have these insane contracts that don't motivate players whatsoever. They've got their contracts...they don't care if they really win. Maybe we'd see a little more professionalism and effort if their contracts weren't guaranteed. Contracts are completely out of control, and I'm no longer handing my money over to PATHETIC players, and our current front office. This team isn't worth it. I'll stick with my Hawk season tickets.

Sounds to me like the team needs a leader that will keep the teams spirits up and get everyone confident and excited to play ball again. Any thoughts on this Geoff, have you seen anything along these lines?

Release Sexson, Vidro, Johjima, Washburn, Bavasi. Sign Clement and Hernandez for life. Thank me very much.

I really, really, really want to fire up my web browser tomorrow and read a headline like "Felix steaming mad, lays into teammates" or "Ichiro chews out starting lineup in 2 languages" or "Mysterious outbreak of black eyes, bruises among starting rotation, middle of lineup".

Who on this ballclub is going to go all Network on these guys ("I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!")? Who's going to say "Jeff Nelson was right, this organization doesn't want to win"? Who's going to make the boys do basic hitting and fielding drills like they were little leaguers, until they start acting like major leaguers?

...

Wait, I got it. They need Dave Niehaus to come in there and swear at them like he's lost his mind. Or at the very least, give them a good "win one for the gipper" speech. I have to imagine he doesn't go into the clubhouse really, so it would have to be a shock:

"Listen, guys. I know this is a little strange to see me here, but hear me out.

I've been here a long, long time. I was calling depressing games that no one but me and my producer were listening to, before some of you were born. I've had to put up with a LOT of bad teams. And I have to tell you... I can't take it anymore.

Let me get to the point: I don't have much longer to go. It's bad enough that the first true Mariner Hall of Famer is going to be the guy who described 30 years of losing teams. Bad enough that I call baseballs that leave the infield as if they were grand salamis, because I can't be sure with you people anymore. Don't let me leave this earth without calling at least one World Series game.

For the love of all that's good and decent: do it for Dave."

With all the complaining about Mac, there is something that concerns me. Mac may not be anyone's first choice for a manager...I don't really care. The thing that troubles me is that he has surrounded himself with some very good baseball men in his coaching staff...and this is all we have been able to get out of the players so far.

Mel would have been one of my first choices for a pitching coach, and our bullpen is in serious trouble. Pentland and Elia combine to make some incredible hitting instructors, but we have several guys struggling to put wood on the ball night after night. I like the young call-ups, but they're doing about what I thought they would...facing more difficult pitching here than in AAA.

I don't want to see any drastic changes, but I don't know how to keep the team from pressing. One of the things about a coaching change is that the new guy coming in has about zero pressure put on him...it's almost as if he has nothing to lose (how people felt about Mac last year).

I don't know what the answer is, and I'm not going to call for anyone's job yet (maybe Bavasi's first). My concern is that the people who are paid to know what to do seem to be as lost as we are. Here's hoping for some May magic.

What was all that talk this afternoon? Who is singing the wang wang blues now?

As someone so eloquently said, "this team is bad," the season is slipping away say some. Others, ever optimistic, keep repeating that it is early, they remind me of Johnny McLarin - all talk but no action. The season is gone says I - it slipped away in Baltimore and it won't be coming back anytime soon. With all this losing, there is no reason to assume that this mess can be fixed this year. Its time to rebuild for next year, so one must take stock of what chips the M's have and prepare to make some bold moves to improve the glaring holes in the roster. The primary problem is offense and the bullpen, but trading is easier said than done. Those who want to trade Lowe for an experienced reliever assume a straight up deal which is extremely - the other teams are not forced to trade, they will demand value beyond a simple one for one swap. It is fantasy to assume otherwise, so it is unlikely that the M's can expect any immediate improvement. What they might reasonably do is explore younger talent as they are doing with Wlad and Clement. But there is also need to dump the over priced deadbeats that can't defend of hit. Included in this bunch are Vidro, Sexson, Johjima, Washburn and everyone's favorite Cairo. To trade them, you have to pay their salary while accepting whatever you can get for them, other DFA them. Time to remake this roster beginning with the offense. As for the bullpen, these guys are mostly young and can use some more seasoning. At this point there is no reason to think of anything other than rebuilding. The season is now a wash and there is no chance of any division title or wild card path to the playoffs. It may be May, but is over so develop the younger talents and move some of the overpriced losers.

Go get Corey Patterson or Jeremy Reed

Balentien and Clement have 3 games under their belt and any knee jerk reaction to call up Reed and trade prospects for a lousy career .259 hitter with a career OBP under .300 is insane. No need to panic on May 2nd and give up the future for a veteran stop gap disaster like Wilkerson was. I will guarantee you there isn't one baseball analyst alive that believes Reed and Patterson will fix the offense.

Yes, the team as a whole is not hitting. Ichiro just started hitting for us the past 3 games and no one else is showing up. Offensive droughts happen. This offense scored 7 runs 4 nights ago.

Unfortunatey, Maclaren is not accountable for his decisions in close games, so I won't mention him anymore since we must have "stability" at the manager spot.

In order for us to win, our offense needs to score 5+ runs a game and hope it doesn't become a close game as the bullpen is extremely vulnerable.

So what do we so? Well, if the club isn't hitting, you play the rookies so they are prepared for 2009. They need the at bats for their development. If they are drowning in a month, re-asses the team's position, and then make a decision. To say hitters are over-matched in 3 games is a complete nonsense.

You can have Babe Ruth in his prime at right field, and one player won't make a difference with the offense. This isn't a video game, this real baseball people. You guys honestly believe Beltre, Ibanez, Lopez, Betancourt, aren't going to hit any more past May 2nd?

Putz - did make any shaving cream pies tonight; anyone one sneak up on you with one? Maybe you could use the foam for that fuzz on your face, then maybe no one will mistake it for some other hole. Pie in the face buddy.

Resin - How many times do we have to go over this? Patterson or Reed would complement the Clement and Balentien moves, not conflict with them.

This is what I'm calling for:

Move Ibanez to a 1B platoon with Sexson. For all the talk of Sexson's improvement, he's doing it mostly against LHPs: .364/.417/.682. Meanwhile, Raul is putting up a .282/.340/.518 line against RHPs. Perfect situation for a platoon.

Put Patterson or Reed in LF. This improves the team in two areas. First, DEFENSE. It boggles the mind that most people ignore defense. Patterson is one of the best OFs in the bigs, while Reed is a decent CF playing LF. Both would save the team runs even if they hit below league average. Second, you are replacing the near-.700 OPS lines of Sexson vs. RHPs and Ibanez vs. LHPs with the bats of either Patterson or Reed. And both can beat .700 OPS.

Reed may be figuring it out in Tacoma. Perhaps he's just figuring out the PCL, or perhaps he's finally developing as a hitter. Either way, you cannot ignore his numbers.

As for Patterson, I went over this the other day, so I'll keep this short: In the first place, his BABIP is more than 100 points below his career average. So he has been quite unlucky. Further, his walk rate so far is the best of his career, and almost league average, while his K rate is much better than the league average. This means his low OBP is truly a product of bad luck. If you look at his historical trending, he's becoming a more disciplined hitter, which has been his lone pitfall.

If he can be a league average hitter, which I believe he can, his defense in LF would make him a tremendous asset, and a much better option than Raul in LF and Sexson in the lineup against RHPs. Add to that his speed on the bases, and this team would instantly be better.

And there's no way we would have to "give up the future" for Patterson. No, we'd be giving up the future if we traded for another Cincy OF, who happens to be 38 and who is trending downwards, not upwards, as a hitter. Patterson would come much cheaper. I'd give the Reds Adam Moore or Ryan Feierabend in a heartbeat for Patterson.

Clearly this team feels the need to win now. If it is going to rely on Clement and Balentien, it will fall short. Another move needs to be made, and it should be for Patterson or Reed.

Go complain about Patterson's meaningless career BA or his low OBP. I'm seeing a hitter who may be starting to figure it out at the plate, who is a fantastic athlete, and who would make our defense much better.

OKC - Do you want a MLB franchise? We got a real looser here.

Tonight was pathetic.............but it just seems like we have the talent to make a run at some point during the season. Everything has gone wrong so far and we are only 4.5 games back.

Who am I kidding? It makes me sick to my stomach to watch us play like this. I'm on the new Mariners diet. As long as they play on the east coast I can't stomach any dinner because I am throwing up in my mouth by the time the dinner bell rings. I should be down to my high school weight by the all-star break.

Thu May 22nd,2003 this team was 19-29 13.5 games out and won the WS..The Marlins..Ii could give tons of examples that this early in the season to have as great a staff as we have and read this crap here!! .this "blogosphere' has created the ability for all you blowhard know nothings about baseball to rant endlessly about firing managers and players after 3-4 bad games, replace them with this guy because he hits lefties well on tuesdays...Please enough already.. sit on your couch, drink your beer stop posting your totally uninformed drivel and let the professionals handle

Move Ibanez to a 1B platoon with Sexson. For all the talk of Sexson's improvement, he's doing it mostly against LHPs: .364/.417/.682. Meanwhile, Raul is putting up a .282/.340/.518 line against RHPs. Perfect situation for a platoon.

Ibanez is a below average defender at first base. We truly would have horrible defense at first base with him and Sexson. I recall seeing Raul and he truly looked uncomfortabe. His range was poor and he was vocal about wanting to play left field. This wouldn't be accepted very well in the clubhouse with a passive manager. With older players, I'm not too opposed to a platoon situation, so I'm not totally against this suggestion.

"Put Patterson or Reed in LF. This improves the team in two areas. First, DEFENSE"

DEFENSE hasn't been the reason we have lost so many games scoring under 3 runs a game.

"Reed may be figuring it out in Tacoma. Perhaps he's just figuring out the PCL, or perhaps he's finally developing as a hitter. Either way, you cannot ignore his numbers."

Reed has been exposed to Triple-A pitching since 2004. He hit a career high 13 home runs last year, he's played 269 games at the triple-A level, you bet I can ignore those numbers. He lacks the power needed at the corner outfield position. Greg Dobbs is a better hitter than Reed, and even Dobbs can't play everyday in the majors, not even in the National League.

I'd give the Reds Adam Moore or Ryan Feierabend in a heartbeat for Patterson.

So would Bill Bavasi, that's what I am afraid of.

Go complain about Patterson's meaningless career BA or his low OBP. I'm seeing a hitter who may be starting to figure it out at the plate

For the love of God, Patterson hit 8 home runs all of last year, he's struggling this year and hitting .205/.268/.443 in a hitters paradise this year and you want him at the corner at Safeco Field????

Offense is the problem right now. I believe the hitters will start hitting, we shouldn't ADD to the hitting woes by trading for a Patterson who likely will be DFA'd soon. That's a classic Bill Bavasi move, trade for a guy who was going to be waived who sucks. See: Horacio Ramirez.

The Mariners are now carrying 12 pitchers and 3 catchers. That is 15 out of 25 roster spots dedicated to two positions. If Clement catches and Vidro is the DH there is no lefty bat off the bench for late inning match ups. How do you let Norton go. Norton is statistically the best pinch hitter in baseball over the last 7 years. That skill would have come in handy in Cleveland in addition to a vetran bat that was actually producing. The Mariner's ownership needs to change the GM and the Manager in order to have any future with frustrated fan attendance.

Keep up the great work Geoff!! Any chance of getting some more footage of Yankee stadium and the new one being built?

"Will JJ regain his mojo and edge in 2008, or will he go down as a one season superstar? (Give me some Rolaids)."

Maybe if you ignore the 2006 season.

By the way, ASUBOYD, saving a run is just as valuable as scoring a run. In other words, maybe you should completely ignore defense when evaluating talent.

"ericy - Just for reference, Kaz returned the money because he was forced to return to Japan in disgrace because of the Japanese management."

Uh, no. He didn't return anything. He opted out of the contract because he wanted to be closer to his family. And he is quoted as saying as much.

"How can Tampa Bay have a winning record with a faction of the payroll of the Mariners?"

Because they have a very smart GM, and an owner willing to let him do his job.

"Balentien and Clement have 3 games under their belt and any knee jerk reaction to call up Reed and trade prospects for a lousy career .259 hitter with a career OBP under .300 is insane. No need to panic on May 2nd and give up the future for a veteran stop gap disaster like Wilkerson was."

Once again you manage to be right, and wrong at the same time. Nobody should be giving up on Balentien and Clement yet. But it would certainly not cost the farm to acquire Corey Patterson.

" Ibanez is a below average defender at first base. We truly would have horrible defense at first base with him and Sexson."

We already have horrible defense at third base. And we have horrible defense in LF. If we had Corey Patterson we would have bad defense at first, and fantastic defense in left. Please tell me how that is a loss?

"DEFENSE hasn't been the reason we have lost so many games scoring under 3 runs a game."

So we should ignore it's importance? In case you haven't noticed the Mariners are one of the worst defensive teams in the league. That matters, no matter how fixated you are on offense.

"For the love of God, Patterson hit 8 home runs all of last year, he's struggling this year and hitting .205/.268/.443 in a hitters paradise this year and you want him at the corner at Safeco Field????"

Wow. As much as you obviously study the game, you really don't have the slightest clue about the value of defense.

Wow, I had a ton of stupid typos in that last post. I'd correct them, but I think people can figure out what I meant.

Right now, the problem with this M's team ISN'T:

Raul in LF (to be replaced by Band-aids Reed, Patterson)
Sexson (remember the wasted HR# 300?)
McLaren (does not play)
Bavasi (does not play)
Balentien (3 games played)
Clement (3 games played)
Felix/Bedard/Batista/Silva/Washburn

The problem IS a lack of CONFIDENCE/ RESOLVE/ PRIDE/ CONCENTRATION from:

RRS/Lowe/Baek/Green/EO'F/JJ Putz
Johjima
Too many M's batters who can't hit above-average pitchers
Infielders who can't keep their head in the game

The solution must come from the players themselves deciding to expect more of one another and themselves. When your most obvious, overt leader is struggling (Putz) and your other clubhouse leader plays now for the Royals (Guillen), then a void must be filled, or the team built to WIN this year will be having some VERY long road trips.

These everyday players are too complacent. Where are the winners on this team? Where are the players with the resolve to find ways to win?

I commented to my wife last night after the four error debacle that we lucked out in that we did not spend one cent on Mariners tickets this year. Not long ago, many of my friends were forming groups to buy season tickets; no one is now! Very few of my neighbors even talk about the Mariners any more. Oh, well, there is always the 5th Ave. Theatre for quality entertainment!

Bavasi and McLaren need to be fired. Their decisions have been disgusting.

No Adam, we can't. The relievers suck as much as the hitters--well not quite, but relievers , last time I checked, were pitchers.

That said, it is time to agree with you that we have a very bad defensive ball club as well.

The Mariners are pathetic. Bavasi and McLaren are pathetic and should be fired. I'm planning on doing other activities. No more Mariner ballgames this year for me.

JJ:
I agree with you that we should stop buying tickets to Mariners games. BUT, I not only did not renew my Ms season ticket, but I told them I would not attned another game until Booovasi was gone and the Ms started fielding winning teams instead of a bunch of nice guys (both if possible). I continue posting on blog, but I send an occasional letter to Howard Lincoln reminding him what I did and how I'm encouraging others to do the same.

Bavasi and McClaren have assembled an unbalanced team that does not match up situationally and does not have confidence in the the descisions of the GM and its Manager. It is the players resposibility to perform but when guys like Norton are cut and a daily lineup consists of four players hitting .200 or less thats not helpful. McClaren consistantly is late or wrong in game descisions that hurt this team. The team must sense panic by management and the two young players will suffer in this enviroment.

"But this isn't because of a manager. This team is now 13-17 because a group of guys, being paid top dollar, are not getting the job done. Simple as that. The players have to play. The hitters have to hit. The closers have to get the saves. The middle relievers have to keep the bleeding from getting worse. And the guys with gloves have to use them. "

Geoff, you're right about the second part. But a good skipper will hold these guys accountable, accept nothing but their best and push the right buttons to get production out of them (Like sweet Lou, Jim Leyland, Rick Pitino, Bill Parcells, etc.)

And put them in the position to win/succeed (now that's a different story for another day)

It must be cold in Ny. Richie 0'fer.

byebye

Adam said: “So can we put to bed the myth that pitching wins?”

Well, I think starting pitching is an important component to winning. I think what we are seeing is that it cannot alone make up for flaws in other facets of the game, i.e., offense, defense, the bullpen and managerial decision making (especially with regards to bullpen utilization.) The FO certainly improved starting pitching, but it did so at the expense of the bullpen and defense, and did nothing to redress the other deficiencies that this club had along, even prior to its off-season moves. It should also be noted that, in the process of making these moves, it managed to negatively impact the ability of this team to compete in an economically efficient manner in the years to come.

"Who was demanding McLaren be put in charge?"

He wears #51

We need some fire in the clubhouse...oh yeah who supplied that last year....Jose Guillen!!!!