wow - that is some view! Im staring at the underbelly of I-5 right now, ugh.

Why does Richie Sexon get a free pass from you Geoff?

More importantlly, what was the Mariners backup plan going into the season for a 1st baseman that barely broke the Mendoza line last season and continues to perform at that level this season.

Why in the world do you believe that evaluating a player by throwing out his accomplishments in blow outs is valid?

Are you going to credit Clement and Wlad for not wasting hits when they didn't do well in blowouts? Or dock Wilkerson for his performance?

Come on now.

Reed needs a shot at the outfield so hopefully he and Balentien can do well enough to keep Vidro as a valuable PART TIME PLAYER/mostly pinch hitter since we got nuthin' on the bench.

Well, I mean. Cairo is technically the most replaceable guy.

good job keep up the good work great discussions.

Okay, we're not going to get carried away with Clement, Reed and/or Vidro. So what's the "other fun" in the title???????

Nice attempt at an argument on keeping Vidro around. Now I'd like to see an argument along the same lines for Cairo.

The potential of Clement should offset whatever it is that Vidro might give the team. One has the ability to hit for power (Clement), and the other does not.

Vidro is Jeff Clement with no power numbers and it is unlikely that he will dramatically improve. Clement is likely to improve over the course of the season, and his starting point today is what Vidro would give the team anyway. Clement is also a part of the Ms immediate future.

Should have stayed in Seattle and been playing everyday, rather than having McLaren pinch hit for Clement late in a game in favor of WIllie Bloomquist. That's quite a message that management gave a young power hitter (in a situation that begged for power)!! Had to do wonders for his confidence.

So, apparently the 'Geoff Baker method' of salvaging the season for team that thought it was A LOT better than it really was, is to call up your hottest hitting minor league players, throw them into the breach for 2 weeks or so and when that doesn't work send them back down and try the next hot hitter? Good grief, that's insane. You simply can't keep that up for any length of time.

I think the season is done, a lot of you don't. Apparently the M's FO doesn't either. It's time to look outside the organization for help. Russell Branyon can play all four corner positions and is sitting in AAA @ Nashville right now. Barry Bonds is looking for a job. There's cheap help out there, but the M's are gonna need a little more imagination to find it.

These are all good points, especially if the M's are still trying to salvage this season (which they probably should, considering how early it is.) Personally, I'm not sure how much of a risk it is putting Raul at DH, considering he's typically been a fairly consistent guy, and I'm not sure what we'd lose even if he DID go into a slump. But all of that speculation on both our parts, so there's no way to know as of today.

One comment on this:
"I do think a healthy Vidro could contribute far more than Clement did when given the chance"

The corollary to that -- that Clement COULD contribute more than Vidro did when given the chance -- is also true. And Vidro's had a lot more "chance" that Clement has, and has performed marginally better at best.

To be clear, I think it was probably a good move to send Clement back -- but not to put Vidro back in the lineup. In my mind, Vidro is not the solution to ANY problem, short, mid, or long term. Vidro was good once, but now I don't think he is (i.e. I don't think he's just in a "slump").

I'm a 49er fan, and back when they were good, it was said about Bill Walsh and co. that they always erred on the side of releasing a player a year too early rather than a year too late. It seems the M's, to say the least, do not adhere to this formula.

Sub .500 team, check. Not expected to come back from a 7 1/2 game deficit against a team that is markedly better them, check. Why not try and catch the lightning in a bottle that the Rockies did last year? Leaving or placing known commodities in the lineup and telling them to not suck won't work any better than working through the kids growing pains.

Any team reduced to hoping for league average results from their DH and 1B positions iis in a world of hurt. Paying over $20M for the privilege just makes it more painful.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So by all means let's toss Vidro out there and delay the defense until it is too late.

"Perfecting the defense?" C'mon. We're worse at defense than we are scoring runs. Lots of things to fix. Just wish there were a way to do both at once.

wabubba- yeah, I felt that way as well when Mclaren subbed Willie for Clement- what a confidence booster for the rookie! As if Willie was gonna do any damage. Clement needed more consistent catching/hitting and he would have come around. Announcing Joh's resigning during that time might have played havoc with Clement's head too.

But it's not the end of the workd for Clement. He'll be back. I wish it was that easy to replace the FO.

A lot of one sided arguments by you Geoff, specifically Raul switching positions messing up his bat. Did Clement not catch while in Seattle? Thank you. I know he said it wasn't a factor, but unlike the rest of most of his teammates, Jeff doesn't make excuses. I like this guy.

In the end, all this arguing is for nothing. Soon the M's will be 10+ games out of contention and Vidro will prove to be terrible once again. End June/Beginning July I expect to see Clement back up. I pray Johjma is traded by then, although I know there's a 0% chance of that happening.

Mike- So are you saying that if we should fix the D now "before it is too late” we will magically be able to hit?? lol

Geoff is saying fix the hitting first and then the D. How can people who watch this team score 2 or less runs a game so many times this year argue with that!!(someone will probably tell me soon)

I think we should try fixing the hitting now "before it is too late". lol

Geoff,

Thanks for the continued analysis. I can respect that perspective as long the M's give Reed some playing time and give him a chance to "win" over a regular position.

In other news, when do we start worrying about Sexson? When do we call to see what it takes to get Nick Johnson?

Also cesame is probably right but until then I can always hope(life is more fun that way)^_^

What's the article talking about?

Clement is garbage, any idea why he's headed back to Tacoma. Vidro is not that bad, I don't want to see Clement as a DH.

People just don't know what they're talking about.

Any chance they try Clement at 1B back in AAA? Many he replaces Sexson in June in a couple weeks...

"What can a healthier Jose Vidro offer? At worst, he'll be as bad as Clement."

No, that's not the case. He is performing below Clement's level because he offers no positional value. He is a DH with no defensive skills (and is a liability in the field). Clement plays a premium position in a serviceable way, so even some lower output numbers are made more valuable by the fact that Clement has something to offer on both sides of the dish. Let me be clear - I thought it was a mistake for Clement to be called up because he couldn't catch everyday. That said, he's better than Vidro right now. Period.

"So, yes, I do think a healthy Vidro could contribute far more than Clement did when given the chance."

Vidro is done. Yo don't want a healthy Vidro, you want a Vidro that does not exist. If the season's on the brink how do you drop a guy with high upside for a hope that an aging singles hitter will turn around a hopelessly crappy season. It defies logic. You drop the struggling guy and do something that has a reasonable shot at succeeding, or you stick with what you were doing.

" If he surprises everyone and goes on a season-long roll, everyone is all the better for it and then you worry about his 2009 option later."

Unfortunately the M's pinned their season to this kind of flawed logic from the outset in far too many positions - if Vidro can just step up his low 2007 output, if Richie can just turn it around, if Wilkerson can just rebound, if Bedard can just stay healthy, if somebody else can emerge as a lefty specialist out of the pen, if Jose Lopez can just be a good #2 hole hitter, if a bench full of garbage can just manage to be a whole lot of things they are not . .

"The last thing you need is for Reed to be handed a left or right field spot and struggle."

What? He is already a defensive upgrade over Ibanez. He can't possibly hit worse than Clement and Vidro have. If you move Raul to DH and start Reed in the outfield you've upgraded the defense at least, and will probably upgrade the offense. You definitely will upgrade the DH, and the package of decent outfield defense and ok hitting would be a real boon.

"Sometimes, it's not the job itself but the diverted focus of mastering something different that takes away from hitting. And that's a foolish risk when Ibanez is far and away this team's top hitter at the moment."

A DH doesn't have a diverted attention. They have the chance to be more focused, not worrying about the 3 balls they had no shot at in the field. Moving from DH to a position in the field is diverting. At worst, moving to DH is upsetting to Ibanez, but if he wants to maintain a viable major league career, he'll get over that quickly.

"Mike- So are you saying that if we should fix the D now "before it is too late” we will magically be able to hit?? lol"

I'm saying we stink at run scoring AND run prevention. We're 12th in runs per game at 4. We're 11th in runs per game given up, 4.6. We are last at turning batted balls in play into outs at .687.
If we had a good defense like league leading Baltimore and had their DER of .729 we would have given up 50 fewer hits resulting in ~40 fewer runs, meaning 3.93 a game.

I'm all for moves that might improve both aspects. I think Reed will hit better than Vidro and field better than Ibanez. I think the fielding gap is much bigger than the hitting gap here but even if it is a wash, we're better.

I think all of us are tired of catchable fly balls dropping into left field for doubles.

Hey Geoff Wladimir Balentien has more Homeruns then Jeff Francouer and as Many Homeruns as Vladimir Guererro two very good RF's in half as many games.And by te way you forgot his 3 run Homerun against Texas in a game we WON.

Platooning Reed with Wladimir is just dumb why take AB's away from are best Power threat behind Adrian,Raul,and Richie probably will produce more HRs then all of those guys but since they have hit more HRs so far we will just say he is behind them right now.

His average is down right now(Wlad)but it can only go up and he still has potential to get better Reed is just what you call a AAAA player.

And as far as the Clement and Vidro situation lets pu it this way I rather have Clement reach Free Agency a year early then have another year of overpaid Vidro.

I'm Sorry Geoff he is not the All-Star 2ndBasemen you Saw back in Montreal.He is a singles hitter with no speed.

Geoff - Oy, so many issues, so little time. I hope you are just playing devil's advocate here.

I really don't understand why you don't think defense is a major problem with this team. This is arguably the worst defensive team in baseball. If you don't think that is a problem, I don't know what to say. Maybe Bavasi and McLaren have sufficiently brainwashed you.

Putting Reed in LF and Ibanez at DH makes the team better, period. It really is that simple. And who really cares if offense seems to be a more glaring weakness? If you can make a team better with a simple (YES, IT IS SIMPLE) move of putting Reed in LF and Ibanez at DH, you do it.

This team doesn't understand player value to save itself. Raul is a more valuable player as a DH. Reed is more valuable than Vidro. It really isn't that hard to tell Ibanez that he's going to DH. If he throws a fit, that's his problem and he shouldn't be on the team.

You mention several times that the team is hoping it can get decent production out of Vidro. Why would they do that? Were six weeks not enough to convince them that he's not a good hitter? He certainly wasn't doing enough 15 games ago when they called up Clement. Has anything changed?

I'm just ranting against these incompetents, Geoff. Sorry you have to take the brunt of it. You know the arguments of why these moves are so idiotic. And yes, I think there is little doubt that they are bad moves. After all, the track records of McLaren and Bavasi speak for themselves. They get no benefit of the doubt.

Go Tigers.

Geoff, I'm sure you've already realized this...but in reading your pieces and all of the discussion about the Vidro/Clement/Reed/Ibanez debate, I've been struck by the fact that some people will never be won over. Your pieces are right on. And you're exactly right...major league baseball is not like a video game or fantasy baseball. Whether it's fair or not, knee jerk reactions don't usually happen and veterans and players earning the money will generally get every chance (especially early in the season) to prove their worth. I thought this latest piece was very thoughtful and well written. Outside of simply disagreeing with the philosophy behind the moves, there shouldn't be all these needless attacks on your writing abilities or your baseball IQ. Keep up the good work.

"...Raul switching positions messing up his bat. Did Clement not catch while in Seattle?" -cesame

Glad I'm not the only one to see the huge fallacy in your argument here Geoff.

You said:
"Sometimes, it's not the job itself but the diverted focus of mastering something different that takes away from hitting. And that's a foolish risk when Ibanez is far and away this team's top hitter at the moment."

Yet the M's take their best hitters from AAA and ask them to adjust immediately to ML pitching and their new role (full time DH - Clement, bench player - Reed) on the team.

If what you say is true it just reaffirms the "foolishness" of the M's management. Just keep bringing up your top hitting prospects and cast them in a completely unfamiliar role. Clement has never been full time DH and Reed has never been a bench player. Based on your point the likely success of these moves are slim to none.

Is that your point?

Well, at first thought after reading Geoff's post I thought maybe this was the usual counter argument against the popular opinion shared here. Afterall, Mr. Baker has made it quite clear he's not a fan of the team. So by putting out the fish hooks with enticing bait, we as bloggers are certainly biting.

Probably the worst analysis I have ever read in the blogs for quite some time. Even worse than reading how Bill Bavasi has never made a stupid move. This ranks right up there with the whole ridiculous criticism of Balentien and Clement to defend veteran hitters in a "what if" Balentien didn't hit those meaningless home runs. On top of completely dismissing Vidro vesting his option for 2009.

With the more recent language Geoff has used in his tone lately, I'm starting to wonder if maybe Geoff actually does support the ideology of Bavasi's insistence in building his teams with veteran experience each winter. Fundamentally Geoff does appear to favor experienced veterans over young better talent. This is why Richie Sexson and Jose Vidro appear less of a target than Clement and Balentien. It's quite clear.

Admittedly this archaic view point has been quite common historically by many in the game. Nevertheless, today's Major League Baseball isn't the same one our fathers and grandfathers watched and enjoyed.

Today's real baseball does indeed include young emerging talent year after year. Teams are indeed allowing their prospects like Joey Votto, Luke Hochevar, James Loney, Matt Kemp, Brandon Dewitt, Carlos Quentin, Geovany Soto, Justin Upton, Nick Blackburn, Jair Jurrjens, Greg Smith, and many many more.

Teams allow their young players more than 15 games to get their experience so they can be productive the following year. When Geoff states that teams in today's modern baseball don't use the season as a teaching ground for their prospects is completely false. The Yankees were in contention when they used the regular season to break in Cano and Melky and they are now doing well. The Red Sox broke in Pedroia and after a World Series championship are breaking in Ellsbury.

Maybe when Geoff was in high school the league didn't break in many rookiest. But they sure do it today and reap the rewards the following year. Like and Edwin Jackson and John Danks who have been stellar this year, but were below league average to downright awful last year.

So when Geoff mocks bloggers to step into reality of this league, it shows he really is out of touch with today's game. This team is not in contention in the real world, maybe in paper, but not in reality. The team would be better served in developing their young talent.

Clement is garbage, any idea why he's headed back to Tacoma. Vidro is not that bad, I don't want to see Clement as a DH.

People just don't know what they're talking about.

Namely you? Jeff Clement, right now, is a better hitter than Jose Vidro. Unless you believe that small sample sizes are irrelevant.

Bavasi has mucked this thing up without any way out. Many times over. He's got to go.

Do we give him one more season to fix the offense? That scares me.
Watch him trade Clement (ala Varitek) or something worse.
His misdeals far out number his good moves.

Trade Kenji (if ownership allows) for a left handed 1st baseman or outfielder with pop.
Put Raul at DH.
Bring up Clement for good.
That’s 3 power lefties in the line-up.

Joh is a bad fit with a staff that prefers the back-up catcher and a mature top draft pick wasting away in triple A.

This season may not be totally done, but I think it’s time to start preparing for next year if we hope to make it a good one.

Adam: "It really isn't that hard to tell Ibanez that he's going to DH. If he throws a fit, that's his problem and he shouldn't be on the team."

What indication do you have that Ibanez would throw a fit. That's never been his personality, so why set up a straw problem. The point that GEOFF makes on this is twofold.

(1) Reed needs to PROVE that playing everyday in the outfield will NOT be accompanied with poor offensive production. I thought it was a good idea to bring up Balentien and Clement, but GEOFF is right. Neither improved this team. Reed has not yet proved that he can bat in the Bigs.

(2) Moving Raul to DH is not about his "feelings" as you suggest. It's simply about whether removing him from LF will harm his PROVEN offensive productivity. He is the best bat this team has on a weak offensive team.

Your posts seem to derive from a build-for-the-future attitude (go Tigers/ go Yankees). This is a team that is still looking to win in '08. Therefore, your "fantasy" scenarios to allow Clement, for example, to have a full year to get "comfortable" make no sense in the real world. Why should Clement be allowed such latitude when so many others are on the hotseat.

What I really want to know....is

WHEN WILL GEOFF or any Seattle journalist call out the whole DICK SEXSON problem???

Sexson is KILLING this team and has killed this team for over a year now, yet not a peep. What gives?

He's due 500.......he's due.

Somebody rationally explain why Sexson is here and Clement is gone.

Reed needs to PROVE that playing everyday in the outfield will NOT be accompanied with poor offensive production.

So, what? You sit him on the bench until he PROVES it? Seriously?

Reed plays everyday in an outfield right now and hits just fine. He's NOT going to be a really good hitter, however he will almost assuredly outhit Vidro the rest of the year. Hell, he hardly has to do that. Moving Raul (It's simply about whether removing him from LF will harm his PROVEN offensive productivity really? give me a break) to DH and someone who can actually field to Left is a huge net postive on both defense and offense.

ScottM---But Reed's lifetime OPS is about .130 points higher than you are getting from Vidro and he's still 26.

And Resin? Right on.

Geoff don't have the balls to call out Sexson...he only picks on players under 25. There I said it, been a long time coming too.

What hurt the team over the 2 week slide (with the rookie call-ups) was the stupidity of the Joh extension. It automatically doomed Clement to the bench. Bavasi in a sense made Clement into a second Varitek, someone to trade away for a stack of dry towels.
And, Geoff, Mac said on an interview that he no longer reads the blogs because they are too critical. Maybe you, too, should stop reading this stuff because it's too critical of you. I am becoming that way (critical of you.)
I bought a new car once, great looking, etc. It kept breaking down, so I poured money into maintenance and repairs. I finally had to junk it when repairs didn't work anymore. It's time to junk several parts of the M's squad and get some parts that work.
"Don't throw good money after bad" is something I learned playing poker, and it served me well.

Somebody rationally explain why Sexson is here and Clement is gone.

I'll try that. Because he's a nice guy. Because he's a local boy. Because the Mariners don't believe in sunk costs. They figure that they've got so much money invested in him you HAVE to play him.

Geoff,

Why do you bother wrting these pieces when you know the impatient types aren't going to listen? I detect some frustration on your part, probably equal part having to cover a bad team and equal part feeling you have to answer to people that don't understand how real baseball works. Your video game analogy is right on, though you could also throw fantasy baseball into the mix of what is making people think big changes are as easy as a few clicks of a mouse.

I guess what I'm saying is that if I was writing the blog I wouldn't take it all so seriously.

Your video game analogy is right on, though you could also throw fantasy baseball into the mix of what is making people think big changes are as easy as a few clicks of a mouse.

Yeah, and get off my lawn! Take your fancy shmancy stats too!

I don't understand how on one hand us 'video game baseball' types are too impatient and that we want changes RIGHT NOW and improvements made yesterday. But on the other we're too patient for wanting to wait for Clement to play to his skill level. Which is it?

I imagine that this is how the dinosaurs would've felt if they'd been aware of their impending doom. Here's a more evolved, more adaptable animal. But, it's so new! Ha! We've been around for 100 million years! Nothing could ev-. Well, we know how that ended, right?

Nothing is stopping this front office from making wholesale changes. The players they have RIGHT NOW aren't going to win the division, nevermind the Wild Card. Either buck up and play the kids, or go find the tons of almost free talent sitting around.

equal part feeling you have to answer to people that don't understand how real baseball works.

I missed that part. Nice touch.

On what basis is there reason to think that this season is anything but finished? Bring up Clement and Reed now. DFA Sexson and Vidro. And how bout a little more Bloomquist? (Thats for you, Novice)

Fire Bavasi before he trades Clement.

Adam's negativity is again manifest on this blog today with statements such as this: "It really isn't that hard to tell Ibanez that he's going to DH. If he throws a fit, that's his problem and he shouldn't be on the team." Everyone lauds Ibanez as a team player and all around good guy, why would he throw a fit? But the problem is Adam's attitude in debasing our erstwhile best hitter and then going off against the team and cheering now for the opposition. Mariner's fans now must put up with his "Go Yanks!" and "Go Tigers!" rants. Yet he has been arguing for censorship of this blog with the idea that his viewpoints are superior to all but a select few posting here. This attitude is that of someone with a false sense of superiority and more so that of a hypocrite. If others are to be booted from this blog for questioning his viewpoints and assessments, then he should surely be the first to be booted because of his traitorous expression and hypocritical attitude.

Go away Adam!

Geoff:

I enjoy your analysis but at times I have to wonder at your selective reading/responding. Again, stick IBANEZ AT FIRST BASE WHERE HAS PLAYED IN PREVIOUS YEARS. Raul has played 145 games in his ML career at fiirst base is decent, as good as Sexson. Thus he would not be moved to dh so won't be inclinced to go into a "funk" by dhing only, or platoon him with Sexson at first base against lefties, but we get the dead weight of Sexson out of the lineup against righ-handers, we keep Balentien in full time since he's already been one of the few power hitters on the team who will likely only get better, and we improve the defense with Reed and have someone who very well could be the answer as the #2 hitter in the lineup. And quit calling posters out for making suggestions -- McLaren and Bavasi have shown clearly with stupid moves like Cairo, Vidro hitting #5, etc., that THEY DON'T GET IT.

Adam's negativity is again manifest on this blog today with statements such as this: "It really isn't that hard to tell Ibanez that he's going to DH. If he throws a fit, that's his problem and he shouldn't be on the team." Everyone lauds Ibanez as a team player and all around good guy, why would he throw a fit? But the problem is Adam's attitude in debasing our erstwhile best hitter and then going off against the team and cheering now for the opposition. Mariner's fans now must put up with his "Go Yanks!" and "Go Tigers!" rants. Yet he has been arguing for censorship of this blog with the idea that his viewpoints are superior to all but a select few posting here. This attitude is that of someone with a false sense of superiority and more so that of a hypocrite. If others are to be booted from this blog for questioning his viewpoints and assessments, then he should surely be the first to be booted because of his traitorous expression and hypocritical attitude.

Go away Adam!

Actually I agree with Adam's argument that Reed should be the everyday left fielder and Ibanez should move to DH - it the logical move. As I recall Reed hit something like .230 or .240 before his injury, this is still better than what we are getting from Vidro and Sexson. Reed is a most definitely a defensive upgrade who will likely save runs as he can get to many more balls that Raul. Having served as DH in the past, Ibanez refers to Edgar Martinez as his "sensae" [sp.] or guru, so it would appear that he has an understanding of this position as learned from his mentor. With these moves that still leaves a black hole at first base, so that the question remains when will this team cut its loses with Sexson and make a move to shore up first base?

I just have to jump on this too. How can you say that we can't risk "diverted focus of mastering something different that takes away from hitting" when we are talking about moving him to DH? THAT'S ALL THE DH DOES!! NOT REALLY GOING TO NEED TO "MASTER SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!" Ok I'm done.

Adam - Thank you for reinforcing my viewpoint with the reposting of my post. It seems, however, with your use of the "idiot" moniker, you give yourself too much credit and fail to respect the intellectual integrity of my argument. Such plagiarism is unbecoming of you and contrary with your code of ethics. In reposting my post under your moniker - idiot - you simply degrade yourself into the very kind of element that you wish to censor on this blog. Adam you are a hypocrite!

Geoff,

They don't need Reed to be at least average with the bat to help the team. Raul is honestly like 20 runs below average with the glove. They need Reed to hit oh around .230/.300/.340 to be an upgrade. We're not talking about being the team savior here. Just being an upgrade. If you can get 1% better you do it. Reed in LF saves ~15 runs with the glove, so if he hits just as bad as Vidro or Clement did, he's still giving you something those other two didn't--great defense at a position where we're currently terrible.

And don't give me crap about Raul not being able to DH. I remember you telling me something about Raul saying he wanted to be the DH after last season at one of the get togethers. He was the full-time DH in 2005 and hit fairly well. Not his crazy 2006 career year good, but fairly well. Raul can DH.

I don't disagree with Clement being sent down since I still feel his long-term value to the Mariners is at catcher. The Mariners are committed to Johjima at catcher, even if I disagree, so Clement has no place to play. He can get regular at bats as a catcher at Tacoma. He's said himself he has a hard time adjusting as a DH. Failed experiment. Call him up after you trade away Johjima.

Speaking of roles, has anyone noticed how Vidro has excelled as a pinch hitter off the bench? I like him in that role. When you need a clutch single from either side of the plate, this is a role Vidro is perfect for. Put him somewhere where power isn't needed.

Miguel Cairo's career avg is .266. Why do we keep giving him chances? He's had 13 years to prove this is what he brings to the table. I hear he is on the roster for his speed. Fine. How about Jeremy Reed take his roster spot since he has more speed than Cairo and is a true outfielder. You don't need another infielder with Bloomquist on the roster.

Adam - Thank you for reinforcing my viewpoint with the reposting of my post. It seems, however, with your use of the "idiot" moniker, you give yourself too much credit and fail to respect the intellectual integrity of my argument. Such plagiarism is unbecoming of you and contrary with your code of ethics. In reposting my post under your moniker - idiot - you simply degrade yourself into the very kind of element that you wish to censor on this blog. Adam you are a hypocrite!

The censorship crowd now plays the game they wish to censor. "Idiot" has no integrity, Adam I hope you are not this person because lawyers already have a bad enough reputation as it is, but of course that does not prevent you ilk for committing more crimes against others who challenge your hypocrisy. Intellectual property thief and plagiarism have no place on this blog, you are the one who should be censored.

ScottM - The reasons why I question Raul's willingness to accept a move to DH are twofold:

1. He made comments last summer to the effect that he wants to play LF no matter what. He made it sound like DH wasn't an option.

2. Geoff's comments regarding the apprehension to move Ibanez from LF to DH. Perhaps they are solely his own, but I get the feeling it is the sentiment of the Mariners that moving Raul from LF would be problematic. Perhaps this is just Geoff, and perhaps the problems are just based on production concerns, rather than attitude concerns.

And I'm not saying that it's a given that Raul will object, but I get the feeling he won't be happy.

Kick Dick to the curb!

Yes I have noticed Vidro is a weopon off the bench as a PH. What is he 2-2? The cool thing about Vidro off the bench is that the opposing manager can't really make a move. Vidro hits left handers as good as rightys. Or is that Pepe and Jose?

what's up with all the Ant-Adam posts? I think someone has a conflicted mancrush on you Adam.

The censorship crowd now plays the game they wish to censor. "Idiot" has no integrity, Adam I hope you are not this person because lawyers already have a bad enough reputation as it is, but of course that does not prevent you ilk for committing more crimes against others who challenge your hypocrisy. Intellectual property thief and plagiarism have no place on this blog, you are the one who should be censored.

* should be ANTI Adam...my spelling steeenks

I hate to say it but I'm hoping we lose every night. I love the Mariners. and I've been a fan through some dark days, but losing is the only way to get rid of Bavasi and "Sunshine Johnny" MacLaren. Mac has been pumping sunshine up our keisters all year...just telling us and the players exactly what they want to hear. He hasn't got the rocks to tell the bald idiot emperor Bavasi that he is wearing no clothes. This isn't Kansas City or Milwaukee where you can rub two sticks together and blame your failures on the market size. We are major financial players in the MLB stratosphere as our ticket prices bear out We deserve better, and the only way that is going to happen is to keep our asses out of the Safeco seats. Hopefully the dismal numbers will be a wake up call to Lincoln and Co when he can't blame them on weather. This team is awful. The players don't care - the management doesn't get it, and we have to pay for it.

Adamless - Perhaps the M's could afford to bring Edgar in to work with Raul. He has expressed great respect for Edgar and I am sure that he would adjust well under the tutelage of the master.

Your post would better convince others if you were not so self-righteous and vainglorious in expression.

What I think is funny is the comparison to Colorado last year and them letting their kid struggle because they were under .500 and so on.

That is exactly where Seattle is now, Seattle's only hope is a Rockies like surge, just as the "rookie" helped Colorado do it last year, Seattle's best hope for such a surge was it clicking for Clement.

Going back to Vidro is conceding this season.

Geoff - Oy, so many issues, so little time. I hope you are just playing devil's advocate here.

I really don't understand why you don't think defense is a major problem with this team. This is arguably the worst defensive team in baseball. If you don't think that is a problem, I don't know what to say. Maybe Bavasi and McLaren have sufficiently brainwashed you.

Putting Reed in LF and Ibanez at DH makes the team better, period. It really is that simple. And who really cares if offense seems to be a more glaring weakness? If you can make a team better with a simple (YES, IT IS SIMPLE) move of putting Reed in LF and Ibanez at DH, you do it.

This team doesn't understand player value to save itself. Raul is a more valuable player as a DH. Reed is more valuable than Vidro. It really isn't that hard to tell Ibanez that he's going to DH. If he throws a fit, that's his problem and he shouldn't be on the team.

You mention several times that the team is hoping it can get decent production out of Vidro. Why would they do that? Were six weeks not enough to convince them that he's not a good hitter? He certainly wasn't doing enough 15 games ago when they called up Clement. Has anything changed?

I'm just ranting against these incompetents, Geoff. Sorry you have to take the brunt of it. You know the arguments of why these moves are so idiotic. And yes, I think there is little doubt that they are bad moves. After all, the track records of McLaren and Bavasi speak for themselves. They get no benefit of the doubt.

Go Tigers.

posted by IDIOT @5:51 PM, May 19, 2008

The censorship crowd now plays the game they wish to censor. "Idiot" has no integrity, Adam I hope you are not this person because lawyers already have a bad enough reputation as it is, but of course that does not prevent you ilk for committing more crimes against others who challenge your hypocrisy. Intellectual property thief and plagiarism have no place on this blog, you are the one who should be censored.

DUDE!?! what the hell are you talking about? Did you skip your meds today? Do you have anything to say about baseball or the topic that Geoff posted? Are you OK? Do you need medical assistance?

Clement is garbage, any idea why he's headed back to Tacoma. Vidro is not that bad, I don't want to see Clement as a DH.

People just don't know what they're talking about.

Namely you? Jeff Clement, right now, is a better hitter than Jose Vidro. Unless you believe that small sample sizes are irrelevant.

ScottM - The reasons why I question Raul's willingness to accept a move to DH are twofold:

1. He made comments last summer to the effect that he wants to play LF no matter what. He made it sound like DH wasn't an option.

2. Geoff's comments regarding the apprehension to move Ibanez from LF to DH. Perhaps they are solely his own, but I get the feeling it is the sentiment of the Mariners that moving Raul from LF would be problematic. Perhaps this is just Geoff, and perhaps the problems are just based on production concerns, rather than attitude concerns.

And I'm not saying that it's a given that Raul will object, but I get the feeling he won't be happy.

warner28 - that was a response to my post from earlier today listing five or six young players besides Clement who had horrible 15-game starts yet whose teams let them play.

Guys like Tulowitzki, Alex Gordon, Pedroia, Chris Young.

My point was simple: Most teams are willing to put up with struggles of young players. Geoff says it was because they could afford to, I say it's because they properly value their players and see the big picture (i.e., they understand that putting the best talent on the field will produce the best results).

Clement didn't get the shot other teams gave their best prospects. Another reason why this organization is a loser.

DUDE!?! what the hell are you talking about? Did you skip your meds today? Do you have anything to say about baseball or the topic that Geoff posted? Are you OK? Do you need medical assistance?

warner28 - that was a response to my post from earlier today listing five or six young players besides Clement who had horrible 15-game starts yet whose teams let them play.

Guys like Tulowitzki, Alex Gordon, Pedroia, Chris Young.

My point was simple: Most teams are willing to put up with struggles of young players. Geoff says it was because they could afford to, I say it's because they properly value their players and see the big picture (i.e., they understand that putting the best talent on the field will produce the best results).

Clement didn't get the shot other teams gave their best prospects. Another reason why this organization is a loser.

In respects to putting up with struggling young players, Adam is correct. Unfortunately Clement did not really have a position and DH was a poor substitute for him. Really the problem was the extension of Johjima's contract, now we have an aging player who has trouble calling a good game and no place to develop our top draft choice who just needs time. Like it or not Adam I agree with you in principle.

Here's a link to an article about the Orioles' unexpected success so far, including comments by George Sherrill about the clubhouse chemistry in Baltimore and in Seattle. I know a lot of posters here pooh-pooh chemistry because it isn't quantifiable. GS seems to believe in it.

www.wtop.com/?nid=294&sid=1406633

Vidro is a bad choice because he has no future with this team.

This season is done, the Mariners aren't going to contend. Knowing that, how do the M's prepare for the future: do they trott out the worst every day DH in the AL, Jose Vidro, or let their young players come up and experience the ups and downs of playing in the big leagues?

A question for you, Geoff: how does Clement learn to hit major league pitching in Tacoma after already dominating AAA?

The assertion of the season being over is really not so because the team is only seven and one-half games out at this point. Close that gap in half by July and you have a race provided you stay close. The thing to do now is try and shore up first base with an astute trade - perhaps using Washburn or Batista in such a deal. While some say these guys do not have value, I would disagree because pitching is always a scarce commodity. Both have their effective moments, another team might be able to use them more wisely and the M's have an alternative in Baek. With Ibanez at DH and an imported 1B man, there is no need for Sexson so DFA him. Vidro can continue as a pinch-hitter as someone above mentioned which would avoid the vesting of his contract for 09. Although the M's have not played as we expected, there remains possibilities if we get our head out of the statistics and into the reality of games behind considerations.

The statement that Balentien is "marginally better" than Wilkerson is not true (unless I misunderstand the meaning of the word "marginal"). And that doesn't even take into account that he is also an upgrade in defense.

Hi Geoff,

long-time lurker. I agree with your up-front thoughts that we all just disagree on how quickly to pull changes. I'm somewhere in the middle thinking the team is too slow, but many here are too quick.

However, I don't necessarily agree with the need to rely on the more proven veterans, especially when the youngsters are hitting comparably, but have a much higher ceiling.

Here's a great article that I just read and touches on how the Diamondbacks, who have been playing great, are relying on youth for that exact reason: higher ceilings and a chance to gain experience even while struggling a bit. And we all saw how they came off last year relying on struggling/unproven youngsters. Give it a read, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts!

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1136003

Vidro's done. Sexson's done. Play Norton! Oh yea, we DFA'd him.

Reed LF.
DH Rauuuuuuuuuuuul....
Instant Upgrade...... IMHO.

Trade Joh...Catch Clement.

Second your post Batter Up! It would be poetic irony, if you could trade Joh along with Washburn for a first base man to replace a DFA's Sexson.

There's something going on that I don't think anybody is really paying attention to. In April, the Mariners scored 4.51 Runs per game, in May, 3.24. The reason (beyond the low offensive production of a couple rookies) has been the bad luck of Yuniesky Betancourt(.196 BaBiP in May) and the unbelievably bad luck of Adrian Beltre(League worst .131 BaBiP in May). Between them they had 32 Runs,19 RBI, and 22 XBH in April; in May: 8 Runs, 12 RBI, and 7 XBH.

When, your #4(or 2 or 3) hitter's batted balls only land for hits 13% of the time, your offense is going to be troubled. That's not to say that improvements don't need to be made in other areas, but this offense is better than 3.24 runs per game even with any combination of Vidro, Clement, Balentien, or Wilkerson.

And in response to Resin isn't Cheating

Joey Votto(batted .333/.333/.564 after 15 games), Luke Hochevar(legitimate example), James Loney(would not have received playing time except for injuries to Nomar Garciapara-batted .225/.295/.300 in first 14 games-sent down, returned in August, batted .321/.406/.643 AND WAS SENT DOWN AUGUST 18) , Matt Kemp(Playing time blocked by free agent signings for 2 seasons), Brandon Dewitt(If you mean BLAKE DeWitt, wouldn't have been playing if Nomar AND Andy LaRoche hadn't been hurt), Carlos Quentin(part time player last 2 years), Geovany Soto(September call-up, 2 previous seasons), Justin Upton (.377/.420/.672 after 15 games this April), Nick Blackburn (do you really believe he'd be in the majors if Johan Santana, Carlos Silva, and Francisco Liriano were there in April?) Jair Jurrjens (semi-legitimate example), Greg Smith (successful April)

The Yankees were in contention when they used the regular season to break in Cano(replaced Tony Womack/Rey Sanchez platoon) as starting Second Baseman) and Melky (replaced current DH Johny Damon in Centerfield) and they are now doing well. The Red Sox broke in Pedroia and after a World Series championship are breaking in Ellsbury.

Like and Edwin Jackson(Edwin Jackson fits the example of playing for a team with no chance to compete) and John Danks (So does Danks) who have been stellar this year, but were below league average to downright awful last year.

"So when Geoff mocks bloggers to step into reality of this league, it shows he really is out of touch with today's game."

Do you pay any attention to the points your trying to make? Obviously you did no real research prior to making your 'point'.

CONGRATS JOH LESTER!!!! local boy pitches a NONO! YES!

Bavasi and Co. aren't committed to anything, just grasping at straws hoping that something clicks.

Signing a 32 year old catcher, that none of the pitchers seem to like, for 3 years and $25 mil and then calling up the guy who should be the future at the position doesn't make sense. Sending the guy back down after 15 games makes even less sense. Giving his should-be at bats to Vidro is simply ludicrous.

Keeping Ibanez in left is conceding runs that the team really can't afford to give away with the offense they've displayed so far. If the team is scoring 2-3 runs a night, why make winning that much more difficult by having a super-liability on the field when he is easily replaced?

Willie Bloomquist?

Miguel Cairo??

No, this is not MLB 2K8 or Stat-O-Matic, but smart GMs are capable of projecting numbers and knowing what they have and if Bavasi thought this team was a contender, enough so that he emptied the minors for a pitcher, then trying to find reasons to keep him around really smells like accepting defeat.

Second your post Batter Up! It would be poetic irony, if you could trade Joh along with Washburn for a first base man to replace a DFA's Sexson.

So Adam, you are hiding now under Malcontent1 and still playing your little "Idiot" game - what a hypocrite you are.

And as an addendum: Clement played DH at Tacoma in several games THIS SEASON. So he should have been much more ready to take up that position than Raul Ibanez would be.

There's something going on that I don't think anybody is really paying attention to. In April, the Mariners scored 4.51 Runs per game, in May, 3.24. The reason (beyond the low offensive production of a couple rookies) has been the bad luck of Yuniesky Betancourt(.196 BaBiP in May) and the unbelievably bad luck of Adrian Beltre(League worst .131 BaBiP in May). Between them they had 32 Runs,19 RBI, and 22 XBH in April; in May: 8 Runs, 12 RBI, and 7 XBH.

When, your #4(or 2 or 3) hitter's batted balls only land for hits 13% of the time, your offense is going to be troubled. That's not to say that improvements don't need to be made in other areas, but this offense is better than 3.24 runs per game even with any combination of Vidro, Clement, Balentien, or Wilkerson.

And in response to Resin isn't Cheating

Joey Votto(batted .333/.333/.564 after 15 games), Luke Hochevar(legitimate example), James Loney(would not have received playing time except for injuries to Nomar Garciapara-batted .225/.295/.300 in first 14 games-sent down, returned in August, batted .321/.406/.643 AND WAS SENT DOWN AUGUST 18) , Matt Kemp(Playing time blocked by free agent signings for 2 seasons), Brandon Dewitt(If you mean BLAKE DeWitt, wouldn't have been playing if Nomar AND Andy LaRoche hadn't been hurt), Carlos Quentin(part time player last 2 years), Geovany Soto(September call-up, 2 previous seasons), Justin Upton (.377/.420/.672 after 15 games this April), Nick Blackburn (do you really believe he'd be in the majors if Johan Santana, Carlos Silva, and Francisco Liriano were there in April?) Jair Jurrjens (semi-legitimate example), Greg Smith (successful April)

The Yankees were in contention when they used the regular season to break in Cano(replaced Tony Womack/Rey Sanchez platoon) as starting Second Baseman) and Melky (replaced current DH Johny Damon in Centerfield) and they are now doing well. The Red Sox broke in Pedroia and after a World Series championship are breaking in Ellsbury.

Like and Edwin Jackson(Edwin Jackson fits the example of playing for a team with no chance to compete) and John Danks (So does Danks) who have been stellar this year, but were below league average to downright awful last year.

"So when Geoff mocks bloggers to step into reality of this league, it shows he really is out of touch with today's game."

Do you pay any attention to the points your trying to make? Obviously you did no real research prior to making your 'point'.

Geoff listening to you'se guys all year long equates to the players and managers listening to the media all year long...it's not the 10,000 time you say something dumb it's the 10,001 time that gets to you....the m's suck...they are losers.....

And as an addendum: Clement played DH at Tacoma in several games THIS SEASON. So he should have been much more ready to take up that position than Raul Ibanez would be.

Thanks, but I'm my own person Troll, appropriate name though, so kudos there.

Bavasi and Co. aren't committed to anything, just grasping at straws hoping that something clicks.

Signing a 32 year old catcher, that none of the pitchers seem to like, for 3 years and $25 mil and then calling up the guy who should be the future at the position doesn't make sense. Sending the guy back down after 15 games makes even less sense. Giving his should-be at bats to Vidro is simply ludicrous.

Keeping Ibanez in left is conceding runs that the team really can't afford to give away with the offense they've displayed so far. If the team is scoring 2-3 runs a night, why make winning that much more difficult by having a super-liability on the field when he is easily replaced?

Willie Bloomquist?

Miguel Cairo??

No, this is not MLB 2K8 or Stat-O-Matic, but smart GMs are capable of projecting numbers and knowing what they have and if Bavasi thought this team was a contender, enough so that he emptied the minors for a pitcher, then trying to find reasons to keep him around really smells like accepting defeat.

Wow Geoff....that was just about as worthless as the comparison of Joh catching Bedard and anyone not named Joh catching Bedard.

The team stinks, I'd rather the team stinks this year with young players getting playing time than continue to let crappy "veterans" steal ABS....and let their options vest.

Geoff, this is one of your worst entries I've read. Your entire argument hinges on thinking the team needs to act in accordance with its preseason expectations. Hey, guess what? I expect to win the lottery! So I should max out all my credit cards today, right?

Um, no.

First of all, it's possible for expectations to be misguided. It's better to admit that they are than continue to build on the same foundation of folly. If the Mariners expected to contend with a terrible defense, terrible offense, and mediocre pitching, that's just ignorance, and them stubbornly clinging to it is nothing short of stupid.

Second, there's no evidence that Ibanez would be "thrown off his game" by moving to DH. There IS evidence, however, that moving him to DH would substantially improve the team's defense. I don't understand your argument that the team shouldn't care about improving the defense because improving the offense is a more pressing concern. Not only is there a defensive solution much more easy to implement than one that improves the offense (although I'd argue putting Reed in left and Ibanez at DH would also improve the offense by keeping Vidro's washed-up carcass away from the lineup), but this is a bad team that needs to get better in ANY way it can.

Admit the season is lost and put the most talented players with the most upside on the field in the positions that best optimize their skills. We're long past the point of needing to care about results, but even those will improve if the team stops making such poor roster/lineup decisions.

Lastly, the whole bit about Balentien hitting "meaningless home runs" is laughably awful. That's the kind of thing that gets you an appearance on firejoemorgan.com. I don't understand why you try so hard to accomodate proponents of pseudopsychological, subjective analysis. If this were a geography blog, would you encourage Flat Earth Society arguments? I hope not. If you're going to analyze the game, it only makes sense to use the most objective, scientific approaches possible. Accomodating outdated thinking is like accomodating Jose Vidro as a major league DH.

Some years ago Bret Boone gave up his steroids and began a sharp decline in the middle of a season. It was at first thought to be patient with him and continue playing him so as to allow him to come around, but soon it became clear he was done. Still many pooh, poohed saying how much he had done for the team and how the M's owed him playing time. Such sentimental nonsense held many captive in support of the washed up Boone, however, I had grown to dislike him earlier because he had declared his political affiliation as one that cares for little but big business, moneyed interests, endless war and theocratic control of our lives. At any rate, Boone was done so I said stick a fork in him. Well that time has come for Richie Sexson and Jose Vidro - "Stick a fork in 'em," says I, we need to DFA these losers.

While I am no fan of McLaren who has no sense of strategy and who manages using four leaf clovers and other lucky charms, surely his commitment to such washed up veterans is going to cost him his job unless things turn around soon. Likely he will be done by July unless the team begins to play better, however, Bavasi will fire him in an attempt to protect himself. But it is also Bavasi's mess and mis-judgments that have led to this failure - he should recognize his failings - Sexson and Vidro - and dismiss them. Certainly he must know that a continued decline by the team will also cost him his position, why then is he so hesitant to make the necessary moves to dismiss such pathetic mistakes - Sexson and Vidro? As for McLaren, why be so loyal to such losers when they are bound to cost him his position? Are these guys - GM and FM - so ignorant and out of touch with reality that they will sink with the ship?

Perhaps it is this simple, but I fear there are other complexities that we are not aware of which must be considered. At any rate, a make over minus these two - Sexson and Virdro - and Johjima and Washburn might yet give this team a chance and help the FM and GM to stay employed. Certainly many here among us would prefer these two managers to be gone, however it seems to me that it would be best to play out these season.

One last thing: Clement is not the "most replaceable guy." Cairo is, then Vidro, then probably Bloomquist, then Sexson. A power-hitting left-handed catcher with plate discipline is far less replaceable than these other guys.

Bloomquist is less replaceable than the other guys because you have to have a utility player to cover for off days when regulars need a break due to injury or fatigue.

He may not be the hitter you wish, but his utility in filling almost any position on notice make him invaluable as a bench player.

Yes, I agree Clement should have been given a better chance and kept over the others that you mention but he needs to catch on a regular basis and Johjima is in his way particularly since Joh received that extension. Bad move.

Bloomquist is less replaceable than the other guys because you have to have a utility player to cover for off days when regulars need a break due to injury or fatigue.

He may not be the hitter you wish, but his utility in filling almost any position on notice make him invaluable as a bench player.

Yes, I agree Clement should have been given a better chance and kept over the others that you mention but he needs to catch on a regular basis and Johjima is in his way particularly since Joh received that extension. Bad move.

As for shipping Jeff Clement back to Class AAA, I don't see what all of the fuss is about. Clement is burning up service time in the majors and not hitting. Jose Vidro can hit .150 as a DH without using up valuable service time for Clement, who did little to help the team in nearly three weeks here.

Woah, Geoff. Clement was brought up because the team didn't think Vidro could cut it. Now, 15 games later, a stretch wherein Vidro had an OPS of about .500, they've changed their minds? What changed from 15 games ago?

This is a perfect example of Bavasi and Mac not knowing what they are doing. If they were concerned about service time, they would have waited to bring up Clement. Now you are telling us that service time is an issue? No. This is a desparation move by a couple of men who are really bad at their jobs.

Will a healthy Vidro do more? I have no idea, but it's worth another shot.

WHAT? Since when did Vidro do ANYTHING to warrant another chance? He wasn't injured earlier in the year, when he was hitting like crap; why does he deserve another shot? Why can't they just realize that Vidro is a horrible hitter who makes the team worse? Don't you understand that? What are you waiting for from Vidro?

If Clement was named Vidro, you'd all be applauding this move. They've put up nearly identical numbers. Enough with this rookie-veteran nonsense. You can't keep rooting for one guy because of age and against another guy because he's older. That stuff is for losers. And losing teams do that all the time, in losing markets populated by fans used to watching losers. It's called September call-up season. When losing teams worry about the future and have time to watch rookies strike out at a 300-K per season rate

Bull, Geoff. This has nothing to do with age, rather everything to do with talent. Do you disagree that Clement has the higher ceiling? Do you disagree that he's more likely to get close to that ceiling than Vidro is to hit at a league average for DHs?

Clement has a 52 OPS+. Vidro sits at 57. Are you telling us that it wasn't worth 5 points of OPS+ to find out if Clement reaches his MUCH, MUCH higher potential? WINNERS recognize a player's value and stick with the player, even though he struggles. That's what WINNERS do. If they have a talented young player who can make the team better, they put up with struggles because they believe, ultimately, that player is best for the team.

I'll tell you what losers do. They hold on to overpaid, underperforming veterans with lower skill sets maniacally wishing for a miracle "rebirth." That's what losers do.

Clement was not an upgrade over Jose Vidro. So, he wasn't helping the team and he was eating up service time that could see him reach free agency a year early. He had nearly three weeks to show something. The M's can always call him back up if Vidro flops.

Yes, Clement was an upgrade over Vidro. If the Mariners are only willing to give their best prospect 15 games to prove his worth, that is their problem, not Clement's. Stupid management from incompetent men.

And please, let's hold off on talk of moving Raul Ibanez to DH -- with Reed playing one of the corner outfield spots full-time, Balentien the other -- until we at least see whether Reed can hit up here. He couldn't the last time. It might take time for Ibanez to adjust to being a DH. He is the team's top hitter right now in on-base plus slugging percentage, which matters a whole lot more than batting average. The last thing you want to do is risk messing up Ibanez's bat for even a small bit of time if Reed is going to take weeks to adjust to being a major league hitter at another full-time spot.

Will Jeremy Reed be better than Raul in LF? YES. Will Jeremy Reed hit better than Vidro? YES. Is any reason why Ibanez can't hit as a DH? NO, unless his selfishness gets in the way. This is just another example of how inept Bavasi and McClaren are. There is a silver lining to the stupid demotion of Clement, and that is by improving the offense and defense by putting Reed in the lineup. Of course, the Mariners do just the opposite.

And if they do take PT away from Balentien, that would be just as idiotic. The kid needs PT, but they decide, with one move, to cut Clement's time AND Wlad's time? Brilliant.

As bad as the defense has been, it's the offense that's the worst problem.

Why, exactly, are we not allowed to improve the defense because the offense is a bigger problem? That makes ZERO sense.

You also get to see if a healthier Vidro can provide more production. I'm not sure why all the tears are being spilled.

Uh, we've already seen what a healthy Vidro can do, Geoff. NOTHING. Why do we have to relive that?

The Mariners really are the worst-run team in the major leagues. It's pathetic how many stupid moves they make. 15 games ago, they call up Clement because Vidro isn't doing squat. During that time, Vidro does hit a lick. Nevertheless, it takes them only those 15 games to decide Clement can't cut it and that Vidro deserves another chance.

They also decide to bring up Jeremy Reed, who could replace Raul in LF and move him DH, with Vidro to the bench. It makes sense, because Reed plays better defense than Raul and will likely hit better than Vidro. Do Bavasi and McLaren make that move? NO. Why? Got me.

I can't root for this team to win. They are my team, and I want what is best for them. And I'm convinced now that what is best for the Mariners is the ouster of Bavasi and McLaren. The only way that will happen is if this team loses. So that's what I am hoping for. It was inevitable that I would get to this point; deep down over the past several weeks I found little pleasure in M's wins, and openly rooted against Washburn, Vidro, Sexson and McClaren. I still love the M's - love Felix, Ichiro, Beltre, Clement, Putz, and others. But until this team gets competent leadership, they will never win.

GO TIGERS and YANKS.

Geoff, this is one of your worst entries I've read. Your entire argument hinges on thinking the team needs to act in accordance with its preseason expectations. Hey, guess what? I expect to win the lottery! So I should max out all my credit cards today, right?

Um, no.

First of all, it's possible for expectations to be misguided. It's better to admit that they are than continue to build on the same foundation of folly. If the Mariners expected to contend with a terrible defense, terrible offense, and mediocre pitching, that's just ignorance, and them stubbornly clinging to it is nothing short of stupid.

Second, there's no evidence that Ibanez would be "thrown off his game" by moving to DH. There IS evidence, however, that moving him to DH would substantially improve the team's defense. I don't understand your argument that the team shouldn't care about improving the defense because improving the offense is a more pressing concern. Not only is there a defensive solution much more easy to implement than one that improves the offense (although I'd argue putting Reed in left and Ibanez at DH would also improve the offense by keeping Vidro's washed-up carcass away from the lineup), but this is a bad team that needs to get better in ANY way it can.

Admit the season is lost and put the most talented players with the most upside on the field in the positions that best optimize their skills. We're long past the point of needing to care about results, but even those will improve if the team stops making such poor roster/lineup decisions.

Lastly, the whole bit about Balentien hitting "meaningless home runs" is laughably awful. That's the kind of thing that gets you an appearance on firejoemorgan.com. I don't understand why you try so hard to accomodate proponents of pseudopsychological, subjective analysis. If this were a geography blog, would you encourage Flat Earth Society arguments? I hope not. If you're going to analyze the game, it only makes sense to use the most objective, scientific approaches possible. Accomodating outdated thinking is like accomodating Jose Vidro as a major league DH.

One last thing: Clement is not the "most replaceable guy." Cairo is, then Vidro, then probably Bloomquist, then Sexson. A power-hitting left-handed catcher with plate discipline is far less replaceable than these other guys.

If the season is over by next week, I think there will be more alignment on what changes are needed on the team. But for now, I agree the M's need to move parts to give the best chance to stay competitive -- which includes Vidro's and Sexson's bats. Maybe not popular but most realistic.

For all of the negativity re: Reed's past numbers at the major league level; his lifetime BA is .253

That puts him far above what we currently are looking at as options in the outfield. He also has good speed and great defense.

Clement DID prove himself worthy now, as a catcher he had 10AB and hit .400. Like he has done his entire career.
Yes, he was brought up as DH, but once here, why not let Joh DH (the pitchers apparently don't want him, so by default Clement can only help) and let Vidro PH?

Also, Reed needs to play LF! Since this team can't score runs, defense is a super premium and Having Raul DH part time would keep the score closer!

Really, this stuff isn't hard. Unless you get paid a lot of money from the M's to screw it up.

I like the view out my window better. About 19 buildings in the distance and almost all of Sequim Bay.

Geoff, what do you mean when you say, "The M's, I am certain, are praying they can tread water with Vidro while they wait to see what Reed brings to the table." ?

To me this is you are indicating that Reed will get to the table, in other words get some at bats. Is this what you mean?

My take is he will sit and they will send him down after a couple of scattered starts, a few pinch hits, and some late game defense.

What do you really expect?

Also, about Richie... you say, "Changes rarely happen as instantly as fans would like to see and there are reasons behind that." It was about June of last season when some of us were suggesting that the team find something else for Richie to do. So, I guess I am proving your statement RIGHT ON. Changes don't and didn't happen instantly. WHEN should Richie be changed?

byebye

"What indication do you have that Ibanez would throw a fit. That's never been his personality, so why set up a straw problem. "

Because it's pretty well known that Ibanez wants to play the field, and does not want to DH. It's funny how Clement gets promoted, is moved out of position, and then shipped back out when he doesn't perform in 15 games worth of AB's, while we can't move Raul to DH because it might disrupt him mentally, or something like that.

Geoff...Your saying the M's who before this season said that we are gonna contend for the AL West and potentially a WS because we got Bedard and Silva. And less than a 1/4 of the way through the season you bring up 2 of your top prospects because your offense needs a boost?? What real team that has eyes for the world series would ever have that rational?? Which is a worse move by Bavasi...Not drafting Lincecum over Brandon Marrow, or when in 2005 at the deadline the Red Sox offered us Hanley Ramirez for Eddie Guardado but Bavasi turned it down because he felt Yunni was a better prospect than Ramirez.. Stevie Wonder has a better eye for talent than Bill Bavasi!!!!!

Who cares if something bad could happen - we're already bad! The Mariners need a swift kick in the caboose and the only way to do that now is to shake things up. If it doesn't work, so what. It's already not working. If it does work, then you're good to go.

Wow, that's a dizzying view. I feel kind of sorry for Ronny Cox. Poor guy got shot by RoboCop and was still alive and alert when he fell out of the window.