good post, Geoff.

Someone on the team needs to get angry pretty soon, the season so far is unacceptable.

Veteran leadership, Real Soon Now.

"we're going to be hard-pressed to find somebody better right now than what we have."- Bill Bavasi

George Sherrill, Jose Guillen, Carlos Guillen, Adam Jones, Rafael Soriano, Asdrubal Cabrerra, Jamie Moyer, Randy Winn, Greg Norton, Tim Lincecum, Ken Griffey Jr., Barry Bonds...

What about these guys Bill?

Well SOMEBODY needs to do SOMETHING. I reckon once the fans stop attending home games it might get more important.

I watched the Detroit and NY games on tv and from my couch what I saw was a lack of intensity both in the field and at the plate.

I have no answers. Firing people is not going to cut it right now.

"George Sherrill, Jose Guillen, Carlos Guillen, Adam Jones, Rafael Soriano, Asdrubal Cabrerra, Jamie Moyer, Randy Winn, Greg Norton, Tim Lincecum..."

ouch.

Pretty good list.............until you got to Bonds.

Again where is MacLaren in all this? Does the Manager just sit idly by hoping someone steps up?

Leopards do not change their spots. If a leader has not emerged then one (or more) need to be developed. I continue to say this is a rudderless ship from the top down. Don't blame the guys in the engine room for not shoveling fast enough.

"To be honest, I wanted to do that today. But it's like, right now...you have to pick the right time to do that. Because we've been losing. I'm pretty sure that of I said something to somebody, they'd get very upset. So, that's why today, I didn't say anything."

So Carlos wants to step up and say something but he's afraid of "upsetting" someone. Come on, dude. You're 18-31 or whatever. You want to call someone out? Be a man and do it.

"I'm pretty sure that of I said something to somebody, they'd get very upset. So, that's why today, I didn't say anything."

Sure, Carlos. Because playing baseball like this is so much better than possibly having your feelings hurt.

Please don't stand around being pansy asses in the name of the Mariners. Show some manhood, for gosh sakes.

Most of those guys don't belong on that list for various reasons. Only the obvious ones, like Soriano, C. Guillen, Cabrera, and maybe Winn. Bavasi sucks, but let's not overdo it.

I have absolutely no confidence in the team now. The fact that Armstrong is sticking with the current leadership shows his lack of control of the team. What we are watching is Bavasi's ineptness in selecting players and Macs inability to bring unity to the team. Everything is cascading like a load of bricks. The lack of leadership at every level of this team is being exposed. As a result, we are witnessing what happens when there's no accountability.

It all starts upstairs. As long as this team remains the way it is now, they will continue this free fall and probably will not win anymore games. What is it going to take before the Ms fire Armstrong, Bavasi and McLaren? Maybe we should stop going to the games.

Wouldn't that be something if the Ms played in an empty stadium.

I find it hilarious that these discussions are being had now, with the team 11.5 back, 14 games under, with a -58 run differential.

Too little too late.

This is a loser organization from top to bottom. And it's not going to chance once Bavasi or McLaren or Sexson or Washburn are gone. It's just not.

Maybe we can start a campaign for Mark Cuban to buy the Mariners...

if the team plane crashed..i dont think i'd shed a tear..would you?

David Gee,
I agree. I just used this list as a reference to point out the ridiculousness of Bavasi's statement. To make the point that if he wants to know why the team is in the condition it's currently in, and who is responsible, all he has to do is look in the mirror. If he would admit some of his mistakes, it might restore him some credibility.

Your right, for various reasons the list can't be taken literally. But it was meant to be taken symbolically.

ethan - keep perspective, plz. That comment is not appropriate in the slightest.

Thanks for posting this Geoff.

What Silva said is exactly what I have been seeing.A guy does bad and just doesnt seem to care.Doesnt make an extra effort to play harder.

I am starting to see the anger take over with everybody arguing calls nobody should be content with losing.

For example Carlos Silva comes right out and says I pitched bad and was embarassed about it.
Then you have Batista saying he pitched good after not even going 5 innings and Washburn half way blaming it on Kenji and Bedard will just say I pitched good and I'll try to do better.

Stop making excuses if you pitch bad then say you pitched bad the players we have dont take account for themselves so YES somebody needs to give these players kicks in the butt.And I dont care what anybody says the manager can do that as well dont act like Mclaren just cannot do anything about it.Jose Guilen said it last year Mclaren is to nice and does not want to hurt anybodies feelings.

I think Ichiro should put everybody in check he is the face of the franchise and what ever he says the players will listen and respect him.

How many people are wishing the M's keep losing big until a decision of some sort has to be made? I was disappointed when they tied it today, but then I knew our good ol' M's would come through for us in the end.

This latest debacle during May has tested my patience to the point of no return. Believe me; I know misery when it comes to baseball, growing up rooting for the Cubs. So, it is nothing new to be in this low of a position so early in the year. Ironically, the Mariners have almost skipped a few months ahead and jumped right to continuing the swoon they went through last July that put them down and out in the West.
I have thought about this team long and hard lately, and there is no other way to pinpoint this demise. It is time to face the reality that this ownership truly doesn’t care if their product is a playoff contender or not. They don’t need to and here is why.

Ownership all the way to the top, no accountability or visibility
I know this point has been belabored over before, but there is a message sent when your major owner lives in Japan and has never been visible at a game. We all know that in leadership positions visibility and actual leadership is the key. It keeps employees and people on their toes and performing. It also shows that you care about what you’re putting your money and time into. Owning this team is another hobby for this guy. He should be breathing on Armstrong, Bavasi, and Lincoln’s necks like a Kabuki warrior at this point.
Just today Chuck Armstrong said he is standing by McLaren. Fine, but no mention of disgust on his part for the product fans are getting, no mention or demand that the team find a way to be successful. Why isn’t the media pressing for these questions? Why hasn’t someone directly asked what their plan is at this point? Why isn’t someone pressing Bavasi for answers in regards to his acquisitions? Looks like Carlos Silva may be the only one who has enough guts to get in some guys faces in the clubhouse. We’ll see what happens though. I understand that baseball is a strange game that can really be frustrating when you’re not winning, but at the MLB level, whether we like it or not, it is also a business. Where is the accountability in this organization?

Even if the Mariners don’t win they win
I believe there is a feeling among ownership that even an average team is okay. Howard Lincoln has actually been quoted saying something to this effect. They will continue to provide “bread and circus” for fans to keep people satisfied. Because they have worked harder to provide a family friendly, techno jazzy atmosphere, with free handouts (ie-bobbleheads, water bottles, etc.) rather than a true baseball product on the field, people will continue to show provided they are entertained by at least something.
Also, they will continue to market the 1995 season which was exciting, but is in the past now. It is a perfect hook, line and sinker for fans, especially those fans that were young kids and are now raising families in the area. They will continue to whip up the nostalgia years to try and keep people attending (ie-continually panning on Jay Buhner at games, Norm Charlton in the bullpen (doing what?), rumors of Griffey coming back, etc.) It’s pretty amazing; based on the amount of time that 1995 is mentioned in the media, by announcers, and in commercials; if you weren’t knowledgeable about baseball history at all, you might think that the Seattle Mariners 1995 season was the greatest thing in the history of baseball. Look for ownership to continue to come up with catchy nostalgia from the 1995 season to try and keep the fan base happy.
Finally, the Mariners plain and simple have no close competition to challenge their revenue and fan draw. They pull from Canada, Oregon, Eastern Washington, possibly Montana and Idaho. San Francisco is hundreds of miles south, and Denver is hundreds of miles southeast. The Mariners don’t have to worry about competing with a cross town team that could possibly kill attendance during certain years. Yes, the cities of Chicago, New York, Baltimore/DC area, and Bay area are larger, but they are forced to compete for fan base and attendance.
In general, a vast majority of butts in the seats at Safeco during the summer months are filled by vacationing families, or beach ball party crowds from the areas mentioned above. They are there to visit, tour the city and see the park. Nothing wrong with that, but it kind of plays into the hands of what I believe ownership knows about their fan base.

Mediocrity breeds mediocrity
Nothing will change until the fans and media start making a loud demand for a better product than the garbage that plays in this lineup and manages the team currently. Case and point, Richie Sexson, this guy should have been booted out the door two years ago. Yet, I don’t believe that fans will start boycotting games for the simple facts that were mentioned above. Unless you decide to start attending minor league and little league games instead, fans in this area will be satisfied just to attend a major league game, regardless of whether the Mariners are the worst team in baseball or not.
I am also very leery as to whether the media will raise their voices. I would like to see someone come out and lay it all on the line in the newspaper. Criticize the management, field managers, players, and question the fans as to why they will continue to show up and watch a mediocre product. This is chancy for a writer; I understand they want a job. It also is iffy being that the Seattle media is quite different from Chicago, New York, Philly, etc. It isn’t always as socially acceptable to rant and rave and demand success in an aggressive demeanor.

The Mariners are the best farm team the MLB has
Almost daily you can read in the papers or hear our broadcasters commenting on a former Mariners who are performing at high levels somewhere else than with the Mariners. I would argue that the Mariners have provided wonderful farm prospects straight from their acquisition failures. I don’t have enough time or inkling to list players that have gone on to contribute with other times, but last fall you could count eight or so former M’s players that were on teams contending for the playoffs and making a run at the pennant. Is this a reflection on how the Mariners ownership performs? I would say so.

I've been a Mariners fan since day one, and honestly, I don't think I've ever seen them get blown off the field five straight times like this, not even the 1978 team, which was the worst ever. At least that team tried.

This is the big problem for the Mariners. They have no real leader. Who on their team has been around a long time? Ichiro is probably the main guy but he doesn't seem like a leader. That's the problem. I guess the language barrier is the big problem. Silva is new on the Mariners so he doesn't really have anyone's respect as a team leader. A team leader is someone who has been around and everyone looks up to. If he says something everyone listens.

Look what happens when your GM doesn't want a real leader to lead their team. McLaren is a "yes" man and his demeanor supports that.

When Piniella was here, he proved his leadership by standing up to the brass telling them what type of players he wanted. He knew what he wanted and placed his expectations with the players. He wasn't afraid to tell it like it was. Piniella is the epitomy of a winning coach.

McLaren is the antithesis of that. He is trying to much to be everyone's friend, he doesn't want to ruffle any feathers. How do you light a fire under the players with that type of attitude? That's not leadership.

This team is in such disarray it's pathetic. There's no leadership from the coach, there's no leadership, nor is there any unity in the clubhouse. They are not a team, they are a bunch of players that happen to be wearing identical uniforms.

It's clear Bavasi doesn't want a true leader to manage this team. That's probably why Hargrove left the club abruptly. I'll bet Bavasi micro-manages and when he fails, blames he coach. Hargrove knew he was being setup for failure. Step in McLaren. Either Mac's unaware, or is an idiot.

Geoff-

Please spare us any more reporting on "clubhouse accountability." It is a myth. Clubhouse accountability has never, in the history of baseball, ever won a game. Not one.

The problem with this team is that the players aren't any good. The front office has spent tens of millions of dollars on "veteran leadership" and "character guys." The problem is that the M's veterans with character cannot play any more.

Washburn, Sexson, Vidro, Batista, and Silva are all average-to-below-average players. There is no reason to believe that some amorphous concept of "accountability" is going to make them play better. They're old, they're best days are behind them. This is fact, and it is not their fault.

It is Bill Bavasi's fault. He should know better than to sign veterans with eroding skills to millions and millions of dollars. Because he clearly doesn't, this team will not get better until he is gone.

Aside from the obvious communication disconnects, this internationalized team lacks a minimum level of Baseball IQ, or the kind of mental application that allows players with even a minimal skillset to create a serviceable MLB career.
Extra batting practice will not increase a player's level of focus and concentration. The lack of greenies in the clubhouse is a factor, but having a player like Buhner threaten to take your coin and kick your a$$ will usually net a level of response commensurate with amphetamines.

Weaver -- you obviously have not played team sports, otherwise you would know the importance of a top-notch coach/manager and some veteran leadership. But you're right -- our players do suck.

As long as Howard and Chuck select the management, and as long as Bill Bavasi oversees a broken roster that he broke himself, no temper tantrums or pouting will fix what we're seeing.

This team is playing bad because they are bad. It was constructed and maintained in a way that created several needless weaknesses, like a bench with no hitters, a defensively-awful LF, a hobbled slap-hitting DH that can't hit anymore, a pitch-to-contact rotation that relies on a meh defense, a depleted, spotty bullpen, and so much payroll taken up to build it.

Silva is one of the problems. Consider that last outing:

- he didn't record a single strikeout. Not one.

- his average strikeout rate this year - 3.42 K per 9 innings - places him at #443 of 475 in the majors.

- his K/BB (strikes per walk) is a pitiful 2.0 this year.

- his BAA (batting average against - how hitters facing him are doing) is .375. That places him at #375 of 475.

- the hitters facing him are slugging .491. That places him at #368.

Carlos is one of the worst pitchers in baseball. That he blames his teammates for his horrible work is shameful.

Me me me me me me me me me me me me.

Me me me me.

Me me me me me me me.

Weaver's right. What player on this team can honestly get up into another's face regarding his play? Every single player on the team is performing poorly.

On a side note, the two months of play so far show that statistics only gets you so far in MLB. There is a psychological aspect to the game that stats don't reflect well. Based on the career stats of the players on this team, this kind of play should be statistically highly unlikely.

Here's to a San Diego win tonight to put the Mariners as the worst team in baseball.

I'd have a pretty hard time if a guy who had just given up five earned runs in six innings, giving up two home runs and a walk with only two strikeouts came over and tried to talk to ME about MY performance.

Probably best that you kept your trap shut, Carlos.

Silva is too fat.He needs to lose 20 lbs.
Why would anyone pay that much money for such a fat tub of goo.
Bosio's uniform would probably fit him.
The Manures like fat tub of goo pitchers.Meteo,Silva,Felix when he was first up.
Can't someone account for a sensible shake for some of these guys.
Heading into August 20 lbs overweight all the time, no wonder Silva poops out every summer.
Bavasi needed to get a weight clause in that fat contract.

Who exactly are these players that need to be spoken to? You're in the clubhouse every day, let the fans know!

"But it's like, right now...you have to pick the right time to do that...But somebody needs to do that."

Uhhh ok when IS the right time? Maybe after we are swept 3 more straight?

WHO WILL do that? tip toe tip toe

sounds like ALL talkin' and ZERO walkin' to me.

WHAT DO THEY HAVE IN THEIR TEAM GATORADE???? ESTROGEN?????

these guys are playing like an expansion team

I'm trying to figure out what Bavasi's comments were meant to do today? It seems to me he was trying to tell the players to play better or he's shipping them out....but that doesn't make sense. Why, it just a couple of days ago that they kept the terrible Washburn and released Baek? Where the hell is the accountability in that?

I would love to hear about a player destroying the clubhouse.....throwing a bat through a big screen or tearing out a locker. Anything but this pansy-ass 'try not to be embarrassed' atmosphere.

In the past 13 years I've rarely missed a Mariner game on television. Since I got a digital video recorder I've never missed a broadcast game. I've attended well over 25 games a year. I've never missed opening and closing day. So far this year I've attended 2 games and I haven't watched one on television for the past 2 weeks. I've listened to Niehaus a little on the radio but that's it.

At this point....my next baseball ticket will be for the Rainiers.

Ultimately Bavasi will get canned because of his biggest gaffe yet - trading Adam Jones. Gahhh I hate him for that trade...

>> Silva is too fat.He needs to lose 20 lbs. Why would anyone pay that much money for such a fat tub of goo.

What is this, third grade? Come on everyone. Maybe we need a minimum age or IQ test to post here.

"To be honest, I wanted to do that today,'' Silva said. "But it's like, right now...you have to pick the right time to do that. Because we've been losing. I'm pretty sure that of I said something to somebody, they'd get very upset."

Awww, don't want to hurt the any of the multi-millionaire's feelings. They might be angry! Great heavens! Can't be upsetting the family-friendly atmosphere that management wants to project to the fans. Come on! Whose running the show here? Baseball people, or PR people reading a 'stay the course' political book?

Reading what Carlos Silva is on the verge of maybe doing kinda seems to be more evidence of what's wrong with this team in the first place. A month ago, six weeks ago, hey, maybe even during spring training when the tone was being set would have been the time to show some leadership.

Now Silva is worried that talking to guys about their effort might make them mad because it's the middle of a losing streak? Too bad. Be professional. Is there a better time to try hard than when everything is going wrong? What else do they have besides effort at this point?

Do these players have no pride? No concern for one another? No sense of obligation to the organization and fans who pay them handsomely?

Hey, tell Mac to tell ichiro directly to become a team leader and put C on his uniform. I bet you that he became a dedicated good tamleader!!

1995: 'refuse to lose' 'two out, so what?'
2008 'it's a sin to win' 'two on, we're gone'
the Leadership Problem begins with the GM and , please explain, why is Sexson playing every day?

Damn, some of you who post essays or comment 12 times to a single posting should make your own whiney blog.

Ichiro is not a team leader. He's never claimed to be one and will never be. He's been with this team how long? He can hardly speak any english. Johjima can speak more English than Ichiro and Johjima hasn't been with the team as long.

Ichiro has always been quick to criticize, but hasn't been willing to do anything about it. If he's not going to provide at least a possible solution, he remains part of the problem.

Besides, his numbers for the month of May have dropped as well. If he's not going to help his case, we might as well get rid of him.

If Bavasi says in effect there is no change he can or will make, then the end has come. If the only answer for a team of players that have given up, are over the hill, or never had real major league talent in the first place, with one who does but only cares about padding his statistics, makes up the team, the team will not improve until some time when players must be replaced for health reasons. That is what Bavasi's announcement sounds like, he's just going to let this team, and those of us following it, rot. And ownership is apparently signed on to that. If that's the case, major league baseball, for the sake of its integrity (lol) and fans, should investigate and mandate changes. Who has ever heard of a team that had deteriorated this much that did not even attempt to change? Ownership is perpetuating fraud in deliberately creating a faulty product with no accountability.
By the way, what's with this "captcha" piece of garbage, anyway?

Pride in one's self. That's what Carlos Silva was talking about. This game turned south on one key play--when Jose Lopez bobbled the third out and the next batter went yard. Silva, had rebounded from a rough four run inning and was in a great groove. How many pitchers are not effected when they throw a great game and find themselves without run support or defensive support?

Silva is one of the few Mariner's who is a natural extrovert and also plays with a high level of pride. I always get the sense that he makes the most of his ability. Washburn, by comparison, has never impressed me. He has no resolve on the mound. He seems unbothered when he tanks. I think SIlva was onto something. With guys like Washburn collecting obscene paychecks no matter what, it's imperative that teams find players who LOVE the game and have a competitive zeal and HATE to lose.

As a ground ball pitcher, Silva's success is also directly tied to the defense behind him. He was a key player through April. He's tanked a couple of times, but he has been very professional in his demeanor and effort since joining the club.

Without saying so directly, he seems to be talking about those players who don't play with enough pride of self and professionalism. Jose Lopez can seem very immature and, obviously, unfocused in the field. Yuni and Beltre have loads of natural talent, but seem cavalier when the team loses or they screw up. Ichiro, Sexson, Ibanez are very introverted and don't usually wear their emotions on their sleeves. They are not clubhouse leaders. By comparison, Silva is more of a natural leader. Bedard has a just-leave-me-alone attitude. Batista is a loner/artist-type who doesn't blend much. Johjima seems to stay to himself. JJ has had too many of his own problems this season to get in anyone else's face. The young bucks in the bullpen seem to be in their own realm.

Bavasi was right about one thing. It's up to the players. Until this group decides it's sick and tired of underperforming and lack of focus, and inability to hit-field-pitch in the clutch, then we will see more of the same.

"Ichiro is not a team leader. He's never claimed to be one and will never be. He's been with this team how long? He can hardly speak any english. Johjima can speak more English than Ichiro and Johjima hasn't been with the team as long."

What team have you been watching? Do you know anything about the the players?

Yawn... pass the buck like a hot potato... Bavasi tell me something I dont already know... I cant believe no one is accountable ('the team' / 'players' doesnt count). Thats awesome.

Geoff good work... best blog ever... appoligize that 'the team' sucks.

Btw... even if the blog did suck, no worries... it would be due to the bloggers, not you.

Hmmmmm...

Carlos Silva sucks. He is the epitome of Bavasi's poor decision making with this roster. He has no place to speak to anybody about sucking.

I will never go to another M's game as long as Lincoln, Bavasi and McLaren are gone. I will not support this regime. For the payroll they have we should be getting a lot more.

Bavasi was one of the only people who apparently thought this team would be good. This is inexcusable.

Ted,
Are you trying to say Silva isn't fat?
he looks fat to me.
He could probably be a higher caliber pitcher for the summer months rather than just being Mr.May
Look at his stats.He falls of the map past June.
Look at that gut next time he is on the mound.
It is a fat tub of goo.

Least we got weaver tomorrow... UGh

These Guys Weren't Traded Under Bavasi, But These Hurt Too:
Barry Zito (Drafted, Didn't Sign)
David Ortiz (Traded for Roberto Kelly)
Jason Varitek (Traded for Slocumb)

"Least we got weaver tomorrow... UGh"

WHO ?? We don't have Weaver on this team anymore.

ScottM -- I was at the game today, and you're absolutely right. Silva kept the team in the game until Lopez booted the ball. He would have been out of that inning easy. Lopez's gaffe cost the team two runs.

Silva impressed me by pitching out of trouble -- giving up only one run with the bases loaded.

I gotta say -- I'm impressed with the way he stepped up and said "yeah, I pitched awful." Hope he actually starts calling guys out on this in the clubhouse (ahem, Wash...)

MacLaren = keith gilbertson. .

I'm predicting the M's offense is really going to wake up tomorrow so the final score will be 21-7, Yankees. Washburn will be throwing real good stuff. Maybe the Ms need to make him their BP pitcher to help get all the guys on track.

I think Jose Lopez needs to be sent down to AAA to work on his defense and to send a message. The heck with his bat.

And why, for the love of humanity, is Cairo still on this roster?

And why does the team DFA Baek when it is looking more and more like it will need a 6th starter, even if a mediocre one, while the need for middle relief only grows and grows?

What ever happened to throwing inside? Time to plunk some batters and send a message. Or maybe start a brawl in the clubhouse. Are these guys out drinking and smokin' something all night? Other than Ibanez, Ichiro, JJ and usually Beltre I do not see consistent effort at all.

This is not a bad team. To call this team bad is an insult to all bad teams. This team is rigor mortis on a baseball diamond.

With our pitching debacle, how could Mac designate Baek for assignment? Now we need pitching and we could possibly lose him. How stupid is that?? Baek is a definite improvement over Washburn and Batista.

How the heck is the team to recover from bone-headed management decisions. The Mariners are the weakest team in the league, right from the front office to the players on the field.

Who brought these washed up players to this team?? That's what Bavasi gets for bringing in the Major League leftovers. Then he has the nerve to the players they need to step up and be accountable. Well, why doesn't Bavasi have to be accountable for bringing in the wrong players? Why can't he just own up and say that he made several mistakes?

Bavasi's logic perplexes me. It's like he knew he bought a bucket with holes in it and is totally surprise that it's leaking.

Hey Geoff,

First just want to say cheers for your tireless efforts to continue to keep us updated in what is now beyond a debacle. I feel for you man but I do appreciate the quality of your updates and the detail that you constantly post. I'm not sure I can add much to what has already been said. This team is beyond a joke. Sure other squads have had equally miserable seasons in recent history but the difference is that they were expected not to complete and had practically no payroll. This is not the case with this lot. I have no idea how this group can be so pathetic day in day out, inning by inning.....by inning. Yeah Bavasi has done a horrible job but I'd like to note that this pretty much same Bavasi team last year was about 12 games over right before the all-star break and well in contention - and yes give or take a player or 2 it was about the same starting lineup. Hargrove quit, Mac got the job. We were out of contention almost immediately with a scourge of 6-7 game losing streaks...I'm not sure if I'm more mad by Bavasi's moves or his ignorance in standing by such a worthless and unqualified manager. But, as others have said at this point in the season what difference does it make? McClueeless should have gone in October and we could have gone after Torre.

quote:jjws: "The Mariners are the best farm team the MLB has
Almost daily you can read in the papers or hear our broadcasters commenting on a former Mariners who are performing at high levels somewhere else than with the Mariners."

I think part of this is because I think the players know about the organizations commitment to perpetual mediocrity. Players reach the end of their contracts, and let the FO know that they want to leave, because they know the FO isn't in it to win it so the M's are faced with signing a player who doesn't want to play here anymore or letting them go. They basically have to let them go. Then they go kill somewhere else. That is what I call quantum bogodynamics

Tampa Bay Rays prove you don't need a big payroll. The Mariners are a bunch of strangers playing together. No wonder this is happening. I'd rather see them take the approach of keeping their farm talent and building around that. Keep the ones that succeed at the major league level and dump the ones who don't. If you've got the ownership with deep pockets like the M's do, then this should be easy to do. Bavasi is just jumpy because he's going to get fired, as he should. He reminds me of Wally Walker - bad decision after bad decision. Good things the M's have a stadium and cable contract.

Anybody here have an update on that website one of the bloggers was starting a while back?
www.firebavasi.com
Whenever I go there it's still not up.

Dan WIlson said in the pregame yesterday that the Mariners teams he played on had two types of leaders, the "lead by example" type, which was Edgar Martinez, and the "game on the line clutch hitter" leader, which he mentioned was Ken Griffey Jr. Most people thought Jay Buhner was the clubhouse leader. Wilson didn't mention that, which tells me that the clubhouse leader is hugely discounted.

I think the current Mariners have the "lead by example" leader in Raul Ibanez. The guy takes extra batting practice, plays through injuries, and quietly produces.

What this team needs is the "game on the line clutch hitter" leader. Could the Ken Griffey Jr. circa 2008 still be that guy? Would it make that much of a difference? I'm talking, of course, of the 2009 season, but maybe, just maybe Junior could have more of an impact than we think.

If you disagree with the statements made today by the F.O., then use your power to make a statement of your own.

Do Not Spend Money on This Team!

Don't buy tickets. Don't buy souveniors, food, beer, merchandise, bobbleheads, baseball cards, or anything with a Mariners logo on it. Do Not breathe the Safeco air.

If you do go to games, boo until you lose your voice. Instead of holding a sign about Rally Fries, hold one that says how you truly feel about your team and the people in charge of it.

If you really want to make a statement, flood the papers with letters to the editor demanding accountability.

Picket outside the stadium.

Give your tickets away to the homeless beggars.

I found the petition to fire Bavasi here: firebillbavasi.com

Let 'em know what you think!

Well, looks like Carlos isn't going to be the veteran leader either. Sigh.

A good leader praises in public and punishes in private. A good leader needs to have confidence in their knowledge to make competent decisions in a timely manner. A good leader needs to be accountable. To themselves and everyone they are responsible for.

I could rattle off a complete list of characteristics and traits that make an excellent leader but that doesn't do the Mariners any good when their leader doesn't seem to possess many of them. He coaches scared and is content just to let the outcome of the game unfold without any sense of urgency or real plan of action.

"If you know yourself and you know your enemy then you need not fear 100 battles."

Let me get this straight. Early on in the season when the team was competing and we started to lose it was the bullpens fault for blowing the lead. Our starters were doing great. We have lost 18 of the last 23 games since the Cleveland series where Norton and Wilkerson were designated. That kind of changed the team dynamic I would say.

Then the team started to fall off defensively and commit errors and naturally our team wasn't good at defense.

Consequently the starting pitchers are now considered terrible because they know our hitters aren't going to be able to score 5 runs and they are not sure if they can hold the opposing team to less than six.

While the pitcher is sitting in the dugout during innings he feebly watches runner after runner get stranded in scoring position with no outs, 1 out, 2 outs, oh we had the bases loaded but only managed to get in 1 run. All the while the whole team is struggling.

Chain reactions cause things like this. Mac is way over his head tell me one coaching move that he has done right. If your team has trouble hitting and you know it. Your game plan has to involve making the most out of the hits you are getting.

When a manager coaches like a coward how do you think the players respond? I think we are seeing it now. You can't be afraid to take chances when you have an opportunity. You can't do anything in fear and be controlled by your fear. Sometimes you have to take control of a situation rather than let the situation control you.

I have yet to witness any great leadership qualities in MacLaren. I am waiting for him to take advantage of a single opportunity to change the outcome of the game with a positive result. Other than changing starters and mixing up the order. A little in game coaching and strategies and tactics would really be encouraged.

Whoops weaver, washy what the hell is the difference any ways i obviously cannot tell. Ugh

Need suggestions here....bringing a sign to the game on Monday, should it still read "FIRE BAVASI" , and if so, what goes on the other side?

Geoff,

I understand what you are saying about the need to call the team out. If you aren't performing, then you better be out there for early batting practice, or at least puting the effort in to get better.

But, seriously, is a clubhouse leader going to make Sexsons bat speed improve? Is it going to give Yuni more range? Is it going to make Raul a competent fielder? Is it going to make Jarrod Washburns velocity return to what it was three years ago? Is it going to give Miguel Batista better control? Is it going to make Jose Vidro any less old, and sucky?

This is a bad team. They aren't as bad as they are currently playing, but that are not a contender. And there are a lot of people that correctly made that assesment before this season started.

The only way the Mariner front office will take any action is when it hits them in the pocket book . Stop going to the games and paying big bucks for a lousy product! That will get there attention!!! Then the heads will roll players,manager and the gen. manager.

All of this is crap! The reason a club goes soft is due to the management. All of these players have played baseball for years. No one has not been in a good club house that has experienced success and failure at any level. The idea that players are not accepting responsibility is load of crap. Not showing emotion has always been the credo of baseball players, a macho stance that is annoying, especially if you enjoy sports at an amateur level.
What we really have is a manager who is the players buddy. This works great when a team is successful but when things go south, that approach does not allow for toughness on the managers part in any kind of sincere representation. It rings hollow., just like the cutesy adds the Mariners have been airing all season. I want to puke !! They work for winning clubs but what an embarrassment for this motlley crew....

As someone who sucks at life, it doesn't make me any less of a loser being self-aware of my worthlessness. Hell, that so-called accountability is of no value unless there's ramifications for one's failure.

Players who can't perform their jobs at an adequate level need to be designate for assignment or traded elsewhere. That, too, goes for Howard Lincoln, Chuck Armstrong, Bill Bavasi, John McLaren, et al.

There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Good article this morning, Geoff. I read your's and Larry Stone's piece, and boy does the Mariners FO sound deluded. Armstrong's quote about Bavasi being part of the solution and not part of the problem is priceless. He is a huge part of the problem! He's the one that put together the roster of "individuals!"

Going to the game again today and prepared for a blowout. Sigh.

Also -- who's this Joba Chamberlain kid the Yankees seem so high on? I've never heard of him, and he was all the Yankee fans would talk about. He came in the game -- threw hard, threw strikes, walked a pair. Reminded me a little of Felix.

For once I agree with Bavasi. The Mariner team is not the fault of McLaren, but rather that of Bavasi. When will Bavasi be fired and replaced by Jay Buhner?

Carlos Silva is one to talk about accountability; he's been sucking it up most of the season. How about he worry about his awful pitching first?

I said a few weeks ago it was obvious Howdy Doody Armstrong appeared to be suffering from the onset of dementia and his comments in Stone's column this morning confirm this. Again, my sympathies go out to his family.
Just reading his comments, it's obvious he has zero baseball acumen at all. He might as well been talking about fishing.
Two years ago Lincoln said the whole FO was on the hotseat if things didn't improve. Howie, the team is twice as bad as it was then. Howie, when you get back from your Boy Scout trip on Tuesday. I expect you to fire the whole FO including yourself.
Scout's honor, right Howie?

The only thing we can count on next year is Bavasi foolishly tossing a ton of money on some of these free agents. My God, what a load of crap!
Chock full of has-beens, never-weres and never-will-be's. Teixiera is good but no way in hell he'd join this dysfunctional organization. It's going to a long time before things change around here
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/2009-mlb-free-a.html

can you tell me why they make the captcha so difficult to read ? I'm illiterate but I can still read if it's not covered by a bunch of junk...holy cow !

Ichiro is a bum - a single hittin' - team quitin' - punch - don't call me judy - 90,000 dollars per single hittin' - run to the clubhouse after the game and hide - I'm scared - over rated - pass the pepper -

how about infield practice before every game ?