Not much to say, really.

But I want to ask:

Would people rather watch this team or a team with Adam Jones in LF, Wlad in RF, Sherrill in the pen, perhaps Morrow in the rotation, and knowing Chris Tillman was destroying AA hitters?

Geoff - do you think we're in a deep-enough hole that a complete purge -- DFA Sexson, Vidro, Washburn, Cairo and others -- and essentially going with all kids to see who can stick in the majors starts to make a lot of sense? The notion of maintaing the illusion of competitiveness seems extra absurd, and I would almost think fans would appreciate how management recognizes they've failed utterly and have to start identifying players who are worth keeping around. Yeah, fans also want a front office and managerial purge, but what good does that do at this point?

Also, can you give us a ballpark payroll figure to wash around in our heads once you get Sexson, Vidro, Washburn, Batista and other players out of the mix? If management wants to stay at $110 million payroll, how much can we think about trying to spend next year? Thanks.

Geoff, Ask mac why when your down 9-2 you bring in Morrow, and let him pitch one inning instead of letting him finish out the game and let him start to stretch his arm out. I don't understand what they are doing with Morrow's situation

Id rather watch my nephew's Little League team play, than this group of no heart millionaires. These guys are a disgrace and Managment should be help accountable.

Boycott the games and Bavasi will go. Its that simple!

Mac - Three strikes and you are out!

Armstrong just had to give Bavasi one more chance to completely destroy the organization from top to bottom....Mission Complete

FIRE EVERYBODY! Kick Sexon, Vidro, Washburn, and Batista to the curb...and start over again. See you in the playoffs next decade!!!

Sad to say this, but time for a complete fire sale. First of the block should be Ichiro and Bedard (maybe we could throw in Sexson and Jojima!!!). If anyone wants a script, use the Florida Marlins for how to conduct a fire sale and acquire young talent.

Wow. Well put Geoff. Question; What would it hurt right now to put RR Smith and RA in the starting rotation and moving Batista and Washburn into the Pen? Is that a thought to these folks?

Yes, Adam, I would have loved that this year...but that is out the window. Time to move on. Like Geoff wrote, there are serious issues with this team that need to be addressed.

This team is truly embarassing. Not sure why I'm watching them so closely...obviously it's because I'm a fan, but it's almost like a trainwreck that I can't seem to take my eyes off.

I feel bad for Mac, but I guess there was a reason that he was a bench coach for so long.

LOL, I find it funny nowadays when they lose. I cannot get sad, mad anymore... I guess now I expect them to lose every game and if they manage to win somehow, I guess that would be more shocking!

Go... other team!!!

It would be difficult to get a fan boycott going; no one will notice a few fans, or even a few hundred, missing. But ... unhappy Ms fans could pick a particular game and spread the word to boycott that one particular home game. Make it very public and if you can get the crowd down a a scattering of people, then a message is sent.

Who's ready to stop bitchin' and start a revolution?

Geoff,

I really enjoy reading your blogs. I am not sure I have anything intelligent to add to this discussion but to affirm what you have already written.

After the last couple of years there appears to be a definitive culture of losing on this team. Even with last year's above .500 club when losing happened it happened fast and was easily embraced.

This culture begins at the very top. Lincoln on down to the field. The front office should be turned over and the core players removed. To lose with heart is one thing, to lose with not a drop of mental fortitude is another.

While I don't think it's time to turn things completely on their head, a few changes would seem painfully obvious.
1) A bench consisting of Cairo, Bloomquist, and Burke is not a bench. All three are below replacement level.
2) Don't let Vidro's option vest. He's not part of a turnaround this year or next. In the AL you simply must get productivity from your DH.
3) Move Washburn to the pen and let him eat middle innings in lost games. Too bad if he feels it's beneath him bacause actually, it suits him.

As long as this managment group is together one thing is for certain....their is no plan! Take off the blinders and put people in place to allow us in 3-5 years to have something that we can believe in.

its hard to really blame Mac. he puts his stategies to good use, its Perlozzo who is always vetoing him. I say fire Perlozzo for now, bring him back towards the end of the season when the M's make a run. Bavasi hasnt had adequate time to adjust from the NL yet. His his moves arent as easy to put in a lineup like they are in the NL.

Lets start talking about tomorrows Loss too while we are at it.

Sorry Geoff. What should be a dream job has turned into some level of hedes.

So if Mac is fired, who do we turn to? I can't see going internally. The 2 on the staff that have managerial experience can't light anything either. What to do? How about Bobby Valentine? Could Cora do anything? Luis Sojo? Boy that Bob Melvin sure sucks.

firemac....good idea....I'm sure there are good reasons not to, but it sure sounds good to find a taker for Washburn, then move Dickey to the rotation and use Morrow as long relief.

The problem with a fire sale like the marlines is that their players had attractive contracts and TALENT. Neither of which the Mariners seem to have.

I wonder how many will continue to show up for the games, and at what point the declining attendance forces action from a somnabumbalist front office.

Its time to clean house. The only untouchables should be Ichiro, Bedard, Putz, Balentin, Betancourt, and Morrow. Everyone else should be shown the door including McLaren. Its tome for Bobby Valentine

Everyone better just get the thought of trading any of these players out of their heads. The only person that would except any of our lousy players in a trade is Bavasi.

Does he have a brother that can be hired by the Reds????

Well next home series agains the Red Sox wil be a good attendance. Hopefully they realize its for the Red Sox not the Mariners.

What intelligent thing is there to say about this team?

The players that the Mariners have assembled are clearly not capable of being a competitive team. That's not their fault. Guys get old and their skills decline. Other guys don't have it, or aren't being coached correctly.

Vidro, Sexson, Washburn, and Batista are done. The rest of the guys look like they have never taken batting practice in their lives. What else is there to say?

The problem with trying to have an intelligent discussion about this team is that the front office is seemingly immune to intelligence.

This team's true capabilities were clear to anyone capable of reading the back of a baseball card. That the front office can't seem to do that, even though they are highly paid professionals, tells me that they are incompetent at their jobs. (Maybe that isn't their fault either.)

All we can do is hope that the executive committee that runs the Mariners is taking active steps to find managers for this team that are more competent than the guys we have now. Clearly we are being out played, out coached, and out hustled.

But the real problem is that we are being out thought. And until we raise the baseball IQ in the front office by several points the Mariners will continue to lose.

The good news is that being the Mariner's GM is a HIGHLY coveted job in the baseball industry. We should have our pick of the many innovative, qualified GM candidates.

While Chris Antonetti gets a lot of pub, I'd love to see the Mariners take a hard look at Kim Ng. It would be highly innovative, and kind of cool, for the Mariner's to break the gender barrier in baseball. She is also HIGHLY qualified, from what I read.

Chris Antonetti, or Kim Ng, in '08

Geoff, you sound as tired of the Mariners as all of us on your comment boards. This team is an embarrassment right now. If behind closed doors, Seattle front office and in-game management doesn't draw laughs, I'd be very surprised. And if fans here give you a hard time Geoff, maybe you should go back to Toronto, because the way I see it you, me, all of us Mariners fans are in the same boat: a sinking one. At least the Blue Jays compete. At least they've one a World Series. They have a decent GM. Seriously, I'm almost ashamed you're forced to cover this terrible team...

Yeah, there really isn't much to say anymore. Small victory today with Raul not playing in the field, but when our offense can't score runs and our 3-5 pitchers can't pitch consistently... well, this is what we have.

Geoff - Enjoy reading your work, and I'm sorry you have to report on this team all year. I can only imagine how much fun the post-clubhouse interviews have been.

Geoff...at least Manhattan is the next stop. What a great distraction from this debacle.

So what is the best solution? It’s not like the M’s are a piece (or 4) from being a tolerable, much less a contender.

With the hope of the Bedard/Jones, Sherrill, etc trade being the “chance” to contend with the “possibility” of signing Bedard to an extension; what’s to be done. Does an extension even sound likely now? The offense is no existent, the defense is one of the worst in MLB, and the pitching – both starters and the pen – look horrible. Even chemistry seems to be an issue with the Kenji/Washburn/Bedard love triangle.

Is something like this even “fixable”? The M’s tried to avoid “rebuilding” a few years ago; and that does not seem to have worked as intended. This is a train wreck, but I can’t stop watching, can’t stop looking at the stats, and can’t stop reading about it.

My name is Kunkoh, and I’m an addict to the M’s.
(first step is admitting you have a problem right?)

The perks of Geoff's job are twofold. First he gets the first hand experience of what its like to meet professioanl baseball players ( something few of us have done.) Second he can freelance during the games and chime in with other fellow fans in the club seats ( the TImes pays for this) Third, I'm sure the all you can eat meals for the players can also be given media passes. which is Geoff.

Hi Geoff,

I'm stilled puzzled by the Kenji situation, re: giving him the excellent extension and then pulling him from the battery 40% of the time. It's not as if he was having a stellar season when the extension happened, after all - it was done with eyes open. I recall McLaren saying "hopefully (the security) will make Kenji more comfortable" but it could also have the opposite effect. That is, who wants to be the one getting the big extension when everyone, including yourself, is struggling? I'd imagine that would create some grumbling and some friction from other players worried about their status. Even if they don't take that out onto the field, these guys practically live together, and I'd hate to see Kenji become even more isolated than he seems to be now. It can't be a help performance wise.

If that move did come from the Japanese ownership, would that be something Bill Bavisi feels he can't disclose to the media and subsequently the fans?

I know this doesn't solve all the problems; I've just been wondering about it a lot. If you could "mailbag" an answer next time you do mail that'd be great.

-Ted

Oh man, what a question to Mac:

"Coming into the series you and Detroit were sort of in the same situation. Does it give you hope seeing how fast Detroit has turned their season around?"

loololo

This team is beyond pathetic. Thanks for the good work Geoff, I am sure it must be frustrating covering such a pathetic, non-profesional ballclub.

The videos are great.

sorry to be saying this since Mac seems to be a nice guy and all but..he really needs to be gone..And that goes with Bavasi as well. With this much payroll and he can't even put together a competitive AAA club. Entire organization needs to be overhauled..

Geoff and company,

Ridding Mac, Bavasi, Armstrong, and Lincoln is looking pretty attractive right now.

But who has that power? Who is the boss of the bosses?

It's all about the '09 M's! Come on, let's jump!

Geoff,
I am curious what you think of Turbo's question and what the answer is? Does management pull their heads out or keep using smoke and mirrors to keep this team together to "win"

Turbo's question:
"Geoff - do you think we're in a deep-enough hole that a complete purge -- DFA Sexson, Vidro, Washburn, Cairo and others -- and essentially going with all kids to see who can stick in the majors starts to make a lot of sense?"

Time: 3:00

Where: 200 3rd Ave.

When: Sat. 24th May

Who: Geoffcoat, book signing.

Why: The last 20 years of Geoffcoat, the history, the orgin, the way of life.

Be careful when you tell BB it's time to clean house?? Bavisa will agree-and trade Clement and Morrow for Griffey and Hatteberg, extend Mac four more years . . . sign Bonds and Sosa .....

Mac is two feet and an arm out the door, whoever is waiting in the wings to take over won't likely be much better but the search can continue this coming offseason.

The Mariners aren't done yet, but they sure are trying hard to be.

I'll still enjoy seeing Griffey in a Mariners uniform this year, it won't solve anything, won't be magic to fix the season, but it will definately have a magic feeling seeing #24 in the field again. He'll be a great DH next year and the year after, I actually believe that. I'll also get some joy out of rooting for Reed to turn his career in Seattle around, Clement to find his MLB swing, Balentien to figure things out, Felix to regain dominance, Bedard to stay healthy, Ichiro to hit .330, Putz to finish with a lower ERA than Papelbon AGAIN, and J-Lo to maintain his season. Theres still stuff to watch for if you're in it for entertainment purposes.

The offense is not bad, its not terrible, its gawdawful and not so sure it will ever get better. Bavasi needs to either toss everything and the kitchen sink at Mark Teixeira next year, or start trading out for prospects, that means shipping Bedard to a playoff contender or Toronto. And trying to get some prospect out of Beltre.

I still think Batista at least, if not Washburn, should be headed to the Bullpen and Morrow and Feierebend should be in the rotation, get em used to seeing MLB hitters again. If Ry Fei does well, he either gets value for trades or finds a spot in our rotation.

Is it a correct assumption that certain (vocal) managers, and players for that matter, are not wanted in Seattle because they are deemed 'difficult' by the FO? Did Lou leave because of the FO? I am sorry we kicked out Bob Melvin, obviously. Grover and McLaren were willing to play the FO game, I guess, but not many Mariner wins resulted.

If this is correct (help me, all of you knowledgeable people), then the first problem to be solved is the FO itself, is it not? Isn't this why so many fans are calling for L, A, and B to be DFA'd?

I'd appreciate some clarification on this. WHERE is the best place to start with a rebuilding operation? Clearly, we need one.

since when did Geoff write a book? it doesnt sound very interesting

OK, I'll bite. What realistically can the Mariners do right now? Seems like the team is lost at this point, and a number of the issues, like benching Johjima so Washburn can choose his own catcher, to not showing up for BP or being accountable to the media, can be directly attributed to McLaren. So, it seems that firing him could be the first step.

But fundamentally it appears that we have a lot of players that are done (Sexson, Vidro, Washburn, Batista, etc.) and it doesn't seem like something that can be fixed this season. So maybe a rebuilding is in order? But we don't appear to have the talent in the minor leagues to plug the gaps, nor do we have the talent to pull in people via trade. And it appears to me that Bavasi and the front office are not capable of accurately evaluating talent, to be able to adequately turn this thing around via trade or the draft.

So, without a front office change, we appear to be stuck. What is the likelihood of a change there at the end of the season? What is the likelihood that ownership will be able to find and select a candidate that can make a real difference?

I didn't get to watch, but I was pleased to see Ibanez at DH. Somebody in the club is at least willing to THINK about proper roster management. That's the silver lining in this series to me. Maybe the team has performed badly enough that Mariners management will start acting so out of character that they stumble into making the correct moves by accident.

This team needs a good dose of Jim Leyland, quoted on MLB.com :
***
"Accept responsibility and personal accountability...I'm not holding back any more. I'll never, ever single out any player. If the team is not performing, you don't single out players, you say the team is not performing, led by a [bad] performance by the manager, up to this point. You don't start hinting there's something wrong in the clubhouse, or somebody's not hustling. That's [garbage]. I don't [care] who likes it and who doesn't like it. We're all in this together and I've told them that since Day 1 since I've been here, and it'll be that way until I'm gone. You don't insinuate like that unless you want to name names. It makes it look like 'I'm hustling, but other guys aren't.'
***

The Mariners are too quick to act like victims and blame someone else for their own performance. Johjima is not the problem with Washburne's pitching -- that was clear on Wednesday. Communication is clearly not Bedard's strong suit, is it a surprise that he has trouble communicating with Joh? As Leyland said many times in that interview "take a look in the mirror."

Scapegoating anyone on this team -- managers, players, owners etc -- does nothing but add negativity to an already negative situation.

To quote Jim Leyland again:
"When you look for all these other excuses, that's [garbage]. Hold yourself accountable, go out there and do your job, bust your butt and we'll do fine."

GEOFF GEOFF GEOFF!

I want you to PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take a moment to address an issue that now I have raised for the third time and it is not illogical or crazy at all. Simply put... Do you think these guys even care?

Here's my point. These guys have guaranteed contracts. If this was the NFL, and they stunk this bad, they would get the Shaun Alexander boot right out of town, and the contract would get ripped up with it. But as it stands, these guys get paid millions of dollars to show up to the park, eat, read mags in the clubhouse, take a little BP, eat, stretch, play and sit around, chew, eat sunflower seeds, then get in their range rovers and head home to their estates and their trophy wives. WHAT DO THEY CARE?

You know I think that what we are seeing on the field is a result of what we are not seeing in the club house.

Think about it this team has had a simliar roster for last few years Ichiro,Lopez,Yuni,Richie,Raul,Adrian,Kenji. And we had losing seasons but ten all of the sudden we add a clubhouse leader in Jose Guillen and the team turns around and makes a playoff run.

Ichiro the best player on the team seems to be very very quiet in the clubhouse I dont know if I'm wrong Geoff knows better then me.Raul is Similar lead by example.Richie I dont really know its sometimes hard to get guys to listen to you when you are playing at such a low level.And then all the young guys who might have issues with the language I'm sure are shy to venture out.

I remember reading a piece a couple days about the clubhouse and how Yuni and Lopez usually are together and Ichiro and Kenji dont really talk much.And Richie is with these people and Raul with this crowd.It doesnt seem like a team it seems like alot of division in the club house.Everybody should be talking to each other and hanging out.

I remember Jose Guillen saying last year that he thought Mclaren was too nice and that he doesnt really get into the gusy when they might need it and I think that is true.

So I truly think the team is so bad because it has a divided clubhouse and no universal clubhouse leader.

Who Agrees?

I completely understand and agree with your mood Jeff......this team has been painful to watch.

I have to call this the curse of 2001......when the M's caught lightening in a bottle with a bunch of over performing veterans and others having career years. since then, we've been caught in that infinite loop of plugging discarded veterans into holes, hoping they too can catch fire
(Aurillia, Spiezio, Everrett, Ramirez, Washburn, White).

The problem is, all of these players have performed poorly (big shock), but the FO has not learned from this mistake, In their effort to stay competitive by not burning the roster down and rebuilding from scratch, the roster has stayed expensive, the production has declined, and there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

We just gutted our farm system, our best prospect is suspended indefinitely....and we have a bunch of spare parts littering the 25 man roster. I know it sounds painful, but in my opinion the only way to get this team back to a competitive state is to gut this team......the sooner, the better.

Trade or release guys we know have no value (Cairo, Vidro, Sexson), then start marketing players with value, hopefully climaxxing with several deadline deals with desperate teams who are willing to overpay.

I know it seems drastic, but the M's are not competitive, they are not even 3-4 players away from being competitive.......they need a complete rebuild from the ground up.

Addressing serious issues.

Seriously, is there any plausible rationale for keeping McLaren after this team gets swept in Yankee Stadium this weekend?

Seriously, is the draft enough reason to justify keeping Bavasi for the remainder of the '08 season?

Seriously, why not send Morrow down to the minors to stretch out to be a starter in '09?

Seriously, why not send BOTH Washburn and Batista down to the bullpen and bring up Feierabend (sp) and Dickie to start the try-out process for who deserves to start?

Seriously, why not send a message to all the starters that they will sit on the pines if they don't perform? Bench Lopez and Yuni when they lose their concentration while fielding, Sexson when he flails at pitches way off the plate. If they don't respond then they sit.

Seriously, why not bring Clement back up in the mix? He deserves another shot at an extended look to see if he belongs on this team in '09.

Seriously, why not let the youngbloods (Balentien/Reed/Clement/LaHair/Rob Johnson) know that in '08 they will get an extended look? Perform and they are part of the '09 team. If not then they're gone.

Seriously, why not offer the behind-the-scenes scouts/ player personnel of the A's or Marlins double the pay to come to Seattle? This brain-trust would cost a minute fraction of one overpaid Sexson or Vidro, and they've proven that they have an eye for building AND rebuilding a WINNING CULTURE.

Seriously, why not build in '09 by seriously challenge every player on the M's to perform the rest of the way in '08, or, except for Bedard/Felix/Silva/Ichiro/Beltre JJ Putz, they won't be back in '09?

Seriously, its pretty simple really. This team hasn't so much as earned the right to let the fans suffer them for the rest of this season. Starting with the Boston series on Monday, it's time to start with wholesale changes.

How much of the starting pitching collapse can be attributed to the lack of offense and bad defense? Geoff, do you think the starters are pressing and missing spots or are they just not very good? Silva looked good to start the year, Bautista was decent last year, and Washburn used to be pretty good (a few years ago) but now they've all nosedived. Geoff, have you had any conversations with Stottlemeyer lately about why he thinks three of the five starters seemingly have forgotten how to pitch?

I don't think the M's should make a move until after the NYY series. It will be awful for an interim guy to have to manage his first series in NY. Let Mac suffer another sweep before showing him the door. Bavasi needs to be shown the door, too. His father just died and he needs to resign if only to save face.


I would be happy if the team called Clement back up, sent Morrow down, continued with Reed in LF, put Batista and/or Wash in the pen and let RRS and Dickey start until Morrow is ready.


This team needs to take all trade offers seriously. Some team needs an Ichiro, Johjima, Sexson, Ibanez, Vidro, Batista, Washburn, etc. At this point I would only keep Wlad, Beltre, Lopez, Betancourt, Clement, JJ, RRS, Morrow, Green, Bedard, Silva, and Felix, but keep Bloomquist, Burke, Reed, Cairo, and Dickey around for filler until they get some good young players or prospects.

Seriously Geoff you should take tomorrow off, enjoy the city, and just phone the game in from a bar. If the Mariners can phone it in every game you can take one off. If you do go to the game I’m sure we can find a toll free depression hotline for you to call.

The more I think about this team and this organization now, the more it feels just like the New York Knicks under Isiah Thomas.

-The manager is too soft and isn't smart enough to run a baseball team.

-The ownership feels stability is the answer for players, front office members, and coaches and will gladly pat people on the back for mediocrity as long as revenue is coming in to the point where contract extensions and bloated contracts will be awarded almost at the same rate that Santa Claus will give out candy canes at the mall during Christmas time.

-The front office isn't filled with enough knowledge; and baseball people aren't running all the baseball positions in the front office.

-I'd be willing to bet half of the players don't give a crap about winning as long as they get those guaranteed pay checks since they know they are a bad team.

This is the most embarrassed I've ever been being a Mariners fan and I fear that unless we see some dramatic changes in the product we see on the field, management, and the coaching staff, we are on our way to a few more years of losing with no end in sight like some franchises have had.

Choska has made excellent points. To me, this starts at the top. It seems to me that the FO hit the jackpot in 2001 and decided they knew what they were doing. I remember back then that we had all these pitchers in AAA that were untouchable. Where are they now? But hey, they won 116 games, so they knew what they were doing, right? I wonder if they keep telling themselves "we won 116 games, we can do this." The talent evaluation is very questionable. It will be a travesty if McLaren is fired without Bavasi

That sound that you just heard was the last Bavasi Bathhouse closing and locking it's doors for good.

Anyone interested in a Clement + trade to Boston for Jed Lowrie and Masterson?

I vote for that.

I'm sick and tired of this crap. I'd really like to support this team, but the games are painful to watch!

I don't want to hear any B.S. from McLaren, Burke, Charlton, Jeff Nelson, etc. about how they can still turn things around or look at the back of the baseball card. Sometimes you have look at reality and realize that some of these guys are in the twilight of their careers.

This team is garbage. I'd like to see them promote half of the guys from AAA. I'm sure young players that are hungry will at least show some fight. Some of the veteran players look like they're just going through the motion waiting for the off-season to come so they can go spend their money.

Someone has to fire Bavasi today! I thought firing him after the June draft made sense, but after thinking about it, doesn't the scout have more of an input about the players? Just get rid of him today before he makes another bone-headed trade by giving away more of the prospects in the system. Why allow him to do more harm to the organization?

i would trade Bloomquist and a bag of peanuts for some Kleenex right now.

I am worried about the Bavasi legacy... Does anyone have any thoughts on how many seasons this horrible FO and GM has set us back?

Except for the fact that there is great potential at the front of the rotation and a closer (nice foundation) I don't see this getting any better for at least 2 more seasons, and that is if they fire Bavasi today!

The funny thing about Bavasi is there was never any "hindsight is 20/20" on his deals. The aquistions and trades looked bad when they were first announced. I'm pretty sure over the last 2 seasons his method of talent evaluation has degraded to picking names out of a hat to fill voids in the roster... I mean VIDRO??? Vidro... Someone must have spilled coffee on the stat sheet Bavasi was reviewing before he pulled the trigger, and the 2000 season smudged to look like 2006.

This isn't just blow-it-up territory, this is start-from-scratch territory.

I honestly think the *only* untouchable is Felix. I could see making a case for JJ as well, but only as #2. And, both of those guys could be had but for an incredible deal.

I'd love to keep Bedard, but our chances of keeping him long-term are really low. Ichiro is only getting older but he still has value. Beltre has value as well.

Everyone else, as we know, is worth shite.

Honestly, if your Mariners mgmt and your primary concern is how many tickets you sell, getting rid of the old fogies will actually help you the rest of the year.

Ive been looking at the bright side all season long. well, no longer. Time to blow it up.

There are players here with value that you can trade to build towards the future. Ibanez, Washburn and Batista especially. I hate to seem so fickle about players I've come to like, and be the person who jumps right off the bandwagon, but reality is reality. And they are in no way, shape, or form helping us. They are killing us.

The best thing that they can do for this team is happily go play for somebody else who is willing to give up a couple prospects. Washburn and Batista are killing us here, but a contending team looking for a 5th starter or bullpen help, wouldn't shy away from adding veteran pitchers.

And Ibanez could be a major player for the rest of the year... on another team. We'd only be doing these guys a favor and it would help us towards the future.

Don't get me completely wrong though, this isnt a total rebuild. Re-sign Erik Bedard NOW. Do something with Felix so we know he's a Mariner for the next 8 years. Lock up the pieces you need to lock up, call up the players you think have a future here. I knew demoting Clement was a mistake because its not really helping him and its not really helping the major league club.

Pretty soon it will be time to call him up anyway after the Ms are 15 games out. He can work it out up here with the big league club getting used to big league pitching.

Oh, and please put Morrow in the rotation. Even if it weakens our bullpen, oh well. Bullpens are for winning teams. Teams who have leads to protect. How many leads have we had to protect, and how many times have we protected them anyway??
I'd rather see Morrow go 6 innings every 5th day, then scattered out innings late in ballgames and not getting prepared for next season when the Ms can start 0-0 again. Clean slate. You don't draft relievers in the top 10, you draft Starters.

As disappointed as I am right now, i'd be intrigued and excited again if I could at least watch our future every night rather than our horrible past.

Go Ms, 2009!

Constructive criticism:

There is no leadership. Does anyone believe that Sweet Lou would tolerate this. Players were afraid of him. He intimidated because HE HAD DONE IT BEFORE. He was one of them. Mac, not so much.

Bobby Valentine is an excellent manager, who wears out his welcome (kind of like a poor man's Billy Martin). This team needs a swift kick, one or two "key" players needs to be let go to demonstrate that this kind of lackadaisical performance is simply not acceptable.

Walter Alston was a great manager for the Dodgers. Mac is of that mold, as was Grady Little (Red Sox and Dodgers) soft spoken and reasonable to a fault. The problem with todays players is that it simply does not work. Mac is a good bench coach, he is not a leader. Some men just aren't.

Bring on Bobby Valentine and either Steve Phillips or Kim Ng.

Being an M's fan, but living out in Denver, I've shelled out the bucks for the Mariner's radio broadcasts, or their comcast TV equivalents. In year's past, I would sit through entire broadcasts to get my money's worth. But, in those seasons, it was still a pleasure to watch (or listen). This year has been so painfully bad, thus far, that I tune in around the 3rd inning, when the team is inevitably behind, and only stick around when I'm feeling very masochistic. I remember the season where Charlton and Ayala and crew would blow lead after lead, but at least those games were fun to watch, because Seattle's offense could belt a couple HR's per game. I've been patient and supportive of the team the past couple of seasons (after all my friends in the NW had long since bailed), because those were "building years" and you could always find certain players who stood out. But, this year is simply abysmal. And worse than that, it's boring. No short term solution will fix this team. Some very large, jolting shake-up is necessary (and no doubt looming). I agree with Turbo's reasoning that maintaining the illusion of competitiveness is absurd. Give up salvaging the season, and begin salvaging the organization. The chemistry of this team (players and otherwise) is pretty much nonexistent, and doesn't look to be changing any time soon. Who knows what infusion of life a big shake-up might bring? At the very least, it might draw curious fans back into the ballpark.

No sense in complaining about where this team is now; it's all been said before. What's important now is identifying what this team can to to be competitive and how long it's going to take to get there. I can see them improving next year, but I don't think they'll be ready to compete again until 2010. If they do they're smart in how they go about it, I'm fine with waiting.

This team has some huge weaknesses, but they also have a ton of resources at their disposal. If they really want to set things right, those weaknesses will have to be rectified with smart moves. The team has to be content with doing the best they can with what's available, even if it means delaying contention another year. They tried to go for broke this season, and they failed. That's what causes franchises to fall apart; i's the equivalent of trying to hit a three-run homer with no one on base.

I don't want to get too heavy into rosterbation, but there a few things the team can do soon to make the future look a bit less bleak. The first has been said before, but it needs to be said again; Raul needs to shift to DH, and Reed needs to start in left. There's little at stake going forward. If Raul can be as productive with the bat at DH as he is as a left fielder (and I don't see any reason why he can't) that's one black hole plugged. If Reed is as productive as Vidro as a hitter, he's an upgrade by virtue of being superior to Raul defensively. If he can put up an average line as a hitter, that's huge. He might not be the everyday LF on the M's next playoff team, but smart teams use cheap stop-gaps to get to where they ultimately want to go. If Reed is truly a AAAA guy and can never be a productive player in the majors, you'll find out for sure this year, with nothing on the line.

Smart teams lock up young talent early at below market rates. Hanley Ramirez, Evan Longoria, Scott Kazmir, etc. The M's need to do this with Felix. You'll save money in the long run, and if the time comes when he has to be traded (God forbid) it makes him more attractive to other teams. Along those same lines, the M's would be smart to extend Adrian Beltre before next season begins. I know some of you aren't a huge fan, and his traditional numbers this year haven't been very good. But if you look at hid line drive percentage and his BABIP, you'll see a guy who has been tremendously unlucky this year. He's smoking the ball, but he's hitting it right at people. Tweeners are being turned into outs. He's still one of the best defensive third basemen in the game, and he's still early in his peak years. He's also walking a lot more. He's a tremendously undervalued player, both here and in the market at large, and he's the kind of guy smart teams lock up at a discount if they can. Finally, do everything possible to get Mark Teixeira this winter. He's still young, he's a solid defensive player, and he'll be worth the money he's going to get. He's the best kind of free-agent to sign.

There's more to do, obviously, but making these moves will at least indicate that the team is starting to make smart decisions. Baseball is changing, and the M's are behind the curve. With the payroll they have, their decisions as a franchise have been terrible, and they're flushing money down the drain on bad players. This has to change if they ever want to be a competitive team again.

Want to write something intelligent? I'm all ears.

It's out of the fan's control what can we say? The only solution to the problem with this franchise is a miracle and unfortunately miracles don't quite happen that often. Hey, I'm just being realistic. That miracle would constitute the following scenarios:

1. CEO Howard Lincoln retires or is removed from his position. Possible replacements: John Ellis or another board member.

2. Chuck Armstrong is removed from his position as team President and does not remain in any capacity in the front office, isn't nearly three decades enough Chuck?

Possible replacements: Lee Pelekoudas or another board member. From my understanding Pelekoudas does not help evaluate talent but rather handles the contracts and helps the GM with adhering to the collective bargaining agreement during free agency and extending deals.

3. Bill Bavasi is fired and is not kept on as a special assistant to the new GM. Possible replacements: Benny Looper, Bob Fontaine Jr. I would prefer Fontaine the job and have a man that can evaluate talent at the GM position. If not, I could live with Looper and his years in the Player Development that would focus on growing the talent in our own backyard rather than gamble on free agency every year.

And the franchise will not be ruined because we lose Fontaine if his alleged loyalty to Bavasi is too much and he leaves. If Bavasi resigns and accepts responsibility for 4 miserable seasons the past 5 years, Fontaine probably stays. If not you have Bob Engle in the organization who as a Scouting Director for Toronto who is quite capable of doing the job.

4. Special assistants to the GM; Dave Wallace, Duane Shaffer, John Boles, are all fired immediately. Essentially this guts out any Bavasi incompetent ideology remaining at the top. Replacements: let the new GM decide.

For all this too happen would be a complete miracle.

As far as the draft goes. Its been, what, 15 years since A-Rod and nobody could have messed up that pick.

When are the Mariners ever going to draft a great hitter? When?!!?

call me kiddie corps if you want... but i don't think that you are correct, Geoff, when you say that the team is an embarrassment to itself. That would require much more caring than we have seen in a very long time. It's all about the paychecks. And the only way to do something about it is to hit the ownership in the paychecks. We are where we are because even though we've had six straight season disasters, the ownership turned a profit in every one of them.

Geoff-Any sense at this point if the organization is considering replacing McLaren? I assume Riggleman or Perlozzo would likely replace him, no?

Jayson Stark has an article up on teams locking up they young players early. Check out what he had to say about Felix.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab4pos1

GM Bill Bavasi stuck to team policy and wouldn't tell Rumblings the details of his negotiations with any player. But Bavasi did say this:

"Felix has tremendous confidence in his abilities and values his freedom of going year to year more than the security of a long-term deal at this point. And you can suffice it to say that with any young player we think highly of, we broach that subject early on. … But long-term deals aren't for everybody."

Because Hernandez can't become a free agent until the winter of 2011-12, his reluctance to sign isn't a big deal -- yet. But it's also an indication that he's a guy who sees a very large payday in his future, and not necessarily in the great Northwest.

20/20 hindsight. That trade is looking a little foolish at the moment considering the team doesn't want to play right now.

I have to be honest though. I am still happy they made the trade. If any of you have been lifelong fans of the M's you should understand how I feel. For years this team was selling us on the pipe dream that our farm system was one day going to save us. That day came and went without a championship. Everyone wants to bash Bavasi and the management but I am still happy to see that they are willing to spend the money and make the moves that they feel will make this team more competitive. There is no way for them to know the chemistry would be this bad.

Honest evaluation says that the situation sucks right now and the season may be lost. Regardless, as true Mariner fans lets continue to support our team and cheer them on at every opportunity.

Fair weather fans should not live in Seattle. We all know it rains 364 days a year.

We can come with all the trade scenarios or free agency targets we want. It's a complete waste of time. It won't work with the current front office executives in charge. This is the same brain trust that nearly signed Barry Zito nearly 10 years and over $100 milion dollars that Bill Bavasi asked Armstrong to approve and he got the okay.

Yet during that winter other team scouts were reporting Zito was tinkering with his mechanics and he didn't look right. The Giants didn't care because they have another Chuck Armstrong-Lincoln running that franchise in Peter McGowan. Who is stepping down in a blessing for fans.

Bavasi nearly landed Jason Schmidt who was injured and offered him a huge contract despite scouts reporting that Schmidt had lost velocity a key indicator an arm is about to blow out. The same Bavasi that offered Carl Pavano a contract and had dinner with him in Seattle and had discussions with the Yankees to land him in a deal even after he was hurt.

Bavasi is a complete incompetent reckless gambler for GM. The few times something has worked, it's been pure flat out luck. You throw a dart at a target 100 times, you may hit the bulls eye once. See: Jose Guillen.

This is rediculous, I think there might be 2 posts MAXIMUM that don't talk about "THE WORLD IS OVER, FIRE BAVASI AND MAC."

Ok folks, really, everyone has said that 99 times each now. The point is made. If Lincoln is reading Bakers Blog (Hi Howard.) then he knows how you feel. Move on and look at other things that can be done.

You want to start from scratch? Ok, what trades can we look at?

Clement to Boston for Lowrie and either Crisp or Masterson. Varitek is nearing the end and Boston is backedlogged in their middle infield and CF right now. Lowrie frees us up to ship Lopez and his empty .300 average with someone else out.

If we aren't going to move Morrow to the rotation, lets trade him, he's a waster as a setup.

Beltre out for some more talent.

Re-sign Bedard to an extension, if not, trade him.

Start thinking about trades and things that don't involved whining about Bavasi and Mac for 100th time. Seriously.

Why so many comments about sending Morrow down to Tacoma? I get the rationale about him working on a starters role. However, we are bad already, why not let him go through his growing pains here... certainly cant be any worse that what we saw from our starters the past three days...

Matt-

I share your desire to see a contender, I truly do. And while I was opposed to the Bedard trade, I understand what it represented to people who supported it. I too am glad that the team seems willing to spend. The issue is that they've spent badly. I would much rather they spend less sand do it intelligently than throw good money at bad players.

I agree 100% Seth. Get him in, move Batista to the BP.

Trading Clement is not smart.

Clement is a waste at DH and Joh has been locked up for 3 years. He's useless to Seattle now, except to trade for someone who can help us.

Jed Lowrie can. GREAT defense, excellent #2 hitter. Perfect fit. Clement is more valueble than Lowrie, so we get another player, I'd push for MAsterson or Crisp, both help us.

sodomojo-

Gotta' disagree about extending Bedard. When he's healthy he's lights out, but he's not healthy very often. If you're going to trade anyone, he should be the guy.

Seth-

Morrow needs at least the rest of this year starting in the minors before he should be considered for the rotation. He's looked good this year; his secondary pitches are much improved and his control is better. But pitching as a starter requires a great deal more thought. Relievers can come in and go all-out, max effort on almost every pitch. Starters can't. Which means less velocity, less movement, and a heck of a lot more strategy. You put Morrow in the MLB rotation this year, without ever having started a game above Rookie Ball, and you run the risk of absolutely destroying his confidence.

Clement is a LHH with 30HR power in a left-handed hitting friendly park. You don't trade him. You work him in at DH, C, and 1B, just like Victor Martinez.

Aaron,

I think trading Bedard is a very legitimate option. We gambled, I supported the gamble, I'm ok with locking him up long term, but I'm ok with shipping him for some strong talent. The question is, when do we do it? now or next year? And to who? Thoughts?

>>This team has serious issues that need to be addressed. This team is an embarrassment right now. To itself, its fans and anyone bothering to show up for these games.

You're right on all accounts Geoff. It's not a one or two things that should not have happened.

Someone must be held responsible for letting this happen with what was a pretty good sum of money invested in personnel.

If it's Bavasi or the manager, they should be fired. If not now, then a succession plan must be laid out for the end of the year transition.

cesame - when do you propose to work him in? After Joh is done in 3 years? or After Ibanez and Griffey leave at DH? Maybe 1B, but Clements TRUE value is in his ability to catch, if he can't do that, for us, he can for other teams, and other teams know it. Seattle won't ever play Clement at 1B, he will be catching, DH or gone.

If Howie does read this, then here are my suggestions:

1. FIRE ARMSTRONG AND HAVE THE NEW GM
HIRE A BASEBALL PERSON IN HIS PLACE
2. FIRE BAVASI
3. FIRE McLAREN
4. TRADE AWAY OR RELEASE ANY
UNDERACHEIVING PLAYER
WITH A BLOATED SALARY
IE: Sexson, Johjima, Vidro, Bloomquist, Silva
Batista, and Washburn

Need I say more?

Thanks for the great video, Geoff. You really do go all out for us. We don't have a good baseball team, but we are lucky to have such a good baseball reporter. It is too bad your talents are wasted on an irrelevant team.

This season is over. Mangement can stay or go, but the deathgrip they have on the idea of "proven veterans" has to go. I'm tired of seeing talent being rushed to AAA and being blocked because the front office keeps hiring 1yr + option middling vets.

Management, please:
- Spring training should begin June 1. At this point it doesn't matter if they win or loose at this point.
- If you can't see them on the roster in 2010, trade them for anything. Build a train a team that can compete next year and contend after that.

I will watch games at home and in person, and even buy overpriced beer, as long as I see some intelligent movement towards a real team.

Out of all of the comments there have been, I have never read anything about blaming the Mariners scouts, who by the way are the one's who actually evaluate talent, not Bavasi. Bavasi makes most of his decisions based on what his Scouting Director tells him, and the Scouting Director makes most of his decisions on what his regional scouts tell him and Major League scouts tell him. Bavasi might tell his scouts to go check out a player, but it is the scout's job to evaluate him and let Bavasi know what he thinks and if that player can help the team or not. I'm not defending Bavasi by any means he's the one that made the horrible Washburn deal(4 years 36mil, should have been fired for that alone), Sexson deal(was hopefull with this one,didn't work out), Vidro(DH with no power, brillant),Silva deal(44 million, you've got to be kidding me.), so many more not enough space.
But it looks like the Mariners scouting department is what needs to be reorganized, along with showing Bavasi the door. The manager can only do so much with what he's given, the Mariners are like Los Angeles, a melting pot, too many different cultures, language barriers, probably little clicks in the club house. The best manager in the league whom ever that might be would have a tough time getting this team to gel together. But like any business there has to be accountability and that starts at the top whom ever that really is. But for my 2 cents I would start with the Scouting Director and Major League scouts after the draft of course and then show Bavasi the door also. I'd give Mclaren the rest of the year because he did inherit most of this mess. Besides changing managers isn't going to fix this team. I do agree with other comments that they need to have a fire sale, Ichiro would fetch quite a bit on open market and start over with a new GM, Scouting Director and proven scouts, they spend a ton of money on crappy players why not spend some money hiring other teams scouts away from those teams, just a thought.

Question. Everyone seems in agreement that Sexson, Vidro, Washburn, Batista, Cairo and probably Jojima should go. Now. But, is any one of those guys worth even a decent 1st base prospect out there? Someone who can come in and get started?

Say you move Ibanez to DH. Then you have Reed/Ichiro/Balentein in the OF. Beltre/Yuni/Lopez in the IF. You need someone at 1st base and I assume you put Clement at catcher.

Seattle doesn't seem to have a truly legit 1st base prospect in their farm. One of the many reasons to question the front office, given the odds of Sexson doing anything this year.

I suppose you could put Bloomquist there as a placeholder until the offseason.

It's a big problem that you have all these guys on the team that aren't worth the air they breath. Difficult to improve.

Trading Clement for Masterson isn't a great idea, and it's probably not a trade Boston makes anyway. Trading Clement for Crisp is an absolutely atrocious idea. A 24 year old, left handed catcher with some power for a 28 year old OFer who's last two years have been well below average? Not smart.

I'm not opposed to trading Clement, but if that's the return you get

I think there were three innings in today's game where the Ms had a man in scoring position and less than two outs. But the hitters did zero to move the runner up. This includes the first inning where Ichiro was on first with no outs and did not score.

Isn't there someone in the clubhouse to point out to these guys how wrong this is? Has everyone just given up and decided to play for individual stats only?

Aaron,

Not for JUST crisp or Masterson, for Lowrie AND one of those other two players.

Clement for Lowrie and Crisp

or

Clement+ for Lowrie and Masterson

Lowrie is the key, hes the perfect #2 hitter behind Ichiro and great defender at either 2B or SS.

Nose to the grindstone, Geoff. Nose to the grindstone...

My only thought is fire Bavasi now. Not just because but so that the new GM will have this years trading deadline to get things started. Waiting until the season is over is wasted time and this organization has wasted enough time a resources as it is. We are not too far away from being competative if the right moves are made.

Bobby Valentine

Geoff,

Why not experiment and sign Bonds now. You wrote earlier that the negative energy he brings to the clubhouse is not worth the risk. Assuming (and big assumption here) he could be signed for the rest of the year with a club option on a second for a somewhat reasonable cost, why not try? The season is going rapidly down the tubes and things can't get much worse. I know he can't save this season, but seeing how he does and how the team reacts would be interesting (and the concept is, at least as a thought experiment). Worst case, he is a cancer in the clubhouse and you cut him loose after the year. Best case, he shows he can still compete at a major league level, can change, and we keep him for a second year before we blow everything up. thoughts?

sodomojo

After Ibanez and Griffey leave at DH? I wasn't aware the two are guaranteed to be here next year. Ibanez is a FA and so is Griffey. Neither are guaranteed to be here next year.

Who says the M's won't ask Clement to play 1B? I may have missed someone saying it, but I've never heard it.

Clement is more valuable than Masterson and Lowrie. That's not enough for Clement.

Why would you add Bonds to a collection of Sexson, Ibanez, Vidro a need for a spot for Clement and soon to be Griffey? What good would adding a 5th DH do us?

Geoff --

I'm a casual M's fan -- don't bleed the colors or anything. But having said that, I really do enjoy watching them during the summer evenings. (Or at least used to.) However, this year I haven't watched any at all because they are so terrible. I can stomach a loss, but what's the fun in watching another 2-run dud? We can't hit, pitch, field, anything.

So, here's my question. Is there any precedent for a pro sports team doing a mid-season, complete "blow-up"? I'm talking about cleaning house -- upper level management, manager, players, etc. Bring up AAA or AA guys, etc. This thing is so broken, that I can't possibly see the harm in rebooting this whole thing. Sincerely, what's the worst that can happen, we get swept by a crappy team in consecutive blow out losses? ummmmm just saw that one again.... so?

Have fun in NYC Geoff. I will be there, but sure the heck will not be going to any games. Won't waste my time or money watching this collection of people go through the motions. I really hope Bedard can pull out a win, he seems to be our only hope. Funny, they had him pegged as the stopper, but the problem is he will be looked upon to stop a bunch of 3 and 4 game skids.

Want to write something intelligent? I'm all ears.

All the intelligent things have already been written, Mr. Baker. One can only say "fire Mac and Bill" or "DFA Sexson and Washburn" or "find a vet who will kick some player's asses in the locker room" so many times. And as aaron c. very cleverly put it above, we've done just about every kind of 'rosterbation' one can, in assembling partial or complete overhauls of the lineup, bench, bullpen and starting 5.

There's nothing new to say about this team, except to provide color commentary when they find new ways of sucking.

These guys have 4 things left to do, to make this any worse: be the victim of a triple play; provide a sub-par pitcher with a no-hitter; provide a pitcher with a perfect game; lose 100 games. None of these things would surprise me at this point.

Fun fact for today: If they play .570 ball or worse, from here to the rest of the season, they will, in fact, lose 100 games.

For convenience's sake, it would probably be helpful if there was one master post listing all the problems, and all the reasonable solutions, in one place. Then when games like this happen, all you or any of us need to do is link to it, saying "See previous arguments; no change from ".

Hells bells, I couldn't even bring myself to vote for Ichiro on this year's All-Star Ballot. He's only nominally deserved it the last couple years, and this year his focus, drive and production just isn't there. And I'm one of those blind sheep-like Ichiro fanbois that Mr. X detests so much. The only All-Star - maybe - on this year's sad-sack squad MIGHT be J-Lo or Ibanez, if either of them can add 50-100 points to their OBPs (and J-Lo 100 points to his SLG).

I wonder: How much is the Ms franchise worth? Perhaps some retired Microsoftie can be the Paul Allen of the Mariners and buy them from Nintendo et. al. A little more local, hands-on ownership couldn't hurt.

Bavasi makes most of his decisions based on what his Scouting Director tells him, and the Scouting Director makes most of his decisions on what his regional scouts tell him and Major League scouts tell him. Bavasi might tell his scouts to go check out a player, but it is the scout's job to evaluate him and let Bavasi know what he thinks and if that player can help the team or not. I'm not defending Bavasi by any means he's the one that made the horrible Washburn deal

That's not how it works. Bavasi sent out John Boles and Dan Evans his special assistants to scout major league players prior to trading for them in the past like Beltre and Washburn. Bavasi, does not use Fontaine or Bob Engle the team's best scouting minds to evaluate MLB players.

I know for a fact that special assistant assistant to the GM Duane Shaffer, was watching Griffey recently. You are making excuses for Bavasi based on wrong assertions.

M's send Schaffer to scout Griffey

Beltre and Washburn were free agent signings is what I meant to say. I know Bob Engle scouted Aumont and gave a glowing report. The same scout that spotted Felix and signed him to a deal. There are good scouts in the organization. Bavasi is accountable for his decisions, especially sending out his special appointed assistants to scout MLB players for him.

sodomojo-

I don't think the Sox make that deal, and I still don't think it's all that great for the M's, either. If you're trading Clement, he needs to either be a complimentary piece in a blockbuster or fetch better talent than that.

The team has poor chemistry. The Mariners need to replace Bavasi with another general manager and rebuild the team. Bavasi decisions have been disgusting.

I like Bobby Valentine a lot, but I don't see him coming back to the US any time soon. He seems pretty happy in the NPBL.

A better Schaffer link

Chris from Bothell: "If they play .570 ball or worse, from here to the rest of the season, they will, in fact, lose 100 games."

With what we're seeing, it's not likely they'll play .570 from here on out. Yet, think of the upside. With wholesale changes, the M's will be picked for the ALWest cellar in '09, and will have a chance to sneak up on people.

under promise
over deliver

On a happier note (for me anyway) my band focuspoint's latest CD got reviewed by the Tacoma Weekly.

Sorry, if this sounds like a shameless plug, but I'm trying not to vomit right now.

What Geoff, you're not in the mood to hear the truth?

No, we don't care if you don't get interviews. Interviews with the media have nothing to do with player accountability and performance. They simply give your fodder for you articles.

Yes, taking batting practice does matter. It actually has to do with improving and sharpening one's skills. Talking to the press has nothing to do with one's ability to play. It only adds lines to your stories about this wretched team.

Yes, many of us saw this coming because we are intelligent baseball fans, not blind followers chasing hopes and dreams (like Barack Obama and his supporters "vote for me, hope and change blah blah blah no actual policy or positions, hope and change!").

Face it, Vidro sucks. There is no reason he should every be playing ahead of Clement. Washburn sucks. McLaren has no stones lessing his sad excuse for a pitcher choose 1/9 of the team's offensive allotment. Bavasi is a moron. Maybe he should go learn something about business. Data-driven decisions, I've heard that mentioned around here once or twice. That sure sounds interesting. I don't know any teams making decisions like that other than Oakland, Boston, San Diego, Tampa Bay, etc.

Anyway, I'll make you a deal Gee-off (I really don't know how you get "j-e-f" out of Geoff). You stop whining about players not giving you quotes and answering your questions, and I'll stop reminding you how the numbers once again proved to be true, as they always do over time.

The worst thing the M's could have done is win 88 games last season.

If they finished, with say, 72-79 wins, people would have called for Bavasi's head after the season ended.

Bu, no, the M's and the media had to do some spinning...

1. We finished with 88 wins!
2. Look what Mac did after Hargrove left - he had nothing to work with!
3. This team is getting better every year! Bavasi is on a roll!

It was pretty good PR if you think about it. I mean, look how they turned the signings of Rich Aurilia and Spiezio in 2004 into a great PR scam (and Everett).

What a shame. I'm sorry, Geoff.

Want to see something funny? Check out the box score of the Red Sox-Royals game and look at what Jose Guillen and Miguel Olivo did. Stupid M's.

What did Beak Do to get designated for assignment. He had some good outings, he had some bad ones but for a guy that was so coveted after spring why just let him go. Why not let him start, send Morrow to Tacoma to get his innings up then bring him back in July and let both of them start and sen Batista to the bullpen. I realize we have to play Wasburn since we are playing him and unlike Football if we cut him we owe him the remander of his contract.

The season is offically over why dont we let Morrow start like we planned to do before we got Bedard. He can't do worse then Washburn and Batista

100 losses? Fine by me. And I'll tell you why:

Stephen Strasburg. He's a dominant RH pitcher out of SD State who earlier this year struck out 23 hitters in one game against Utah. That's not a typo. He's projected to be a top-five pick in next year's draft. 6' 4", 220 lbs, power arsenal.

I can rest a bit easier if we have Felix, Strasburg, Aumont, and Morrow in our rotation come 2010.

The only problem with this scenario is that I'm convinced that if they give Clement and Reed everyday jobs, and jettison Sexson, Vidro, and Washburn, the team will actually get better and miss out on Strasburg.

Nothing can go right with the Mariners.

The last thing I would like to do is see Bavasi trade Clement to Boston. It was a huge mistake with Varitek... just look at how big of a part of the World Series champions he is. One could only wonder what we would be talking about right now if he were our catcher and captain.

Hey Geoff
like the inside look of your trips. I went to detroit two labor days ago and just went to the stadium. All I saw was the area around Commerica and the old Tiger stadium. (unfortunately I never had been to detroit and never got a chance to see a game there) I was amazed by it. Even though it was run down. The area around looked like a war zone. Anyway, my question is since you went on your 15 minute walk did you get a sense that the entire city was a s#&t hole? I know sometimes when you just get a glimpse of a city it may get missinterpretted. My guess is I am wrong but I am curious as to what your impressions are.

I don't think moving players is going to make any difference until the mangement changes. The coaching staff set the tone for the whole team. Maybe they need to look to themselves for some answers.

Sorry this team needs to step up and represent. Their lack of caring and lackluster effort from the top down is an embarassment to the city and its fans.

They just got their butts kicked. The games weren't even close and they were never in them. They have the talent to complete.

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that they have the heart.

The Ms are terrible at evaluating talent. They hamstring themselves with ludicrous contract to mediocre pitchers. They would rather rely on a washed up hitter reproducing results of days-gone-by than sticking with and trusting younger more talented players. They don't value defense. They don't find players to match the quirks of their ballpark. In talent acquisition they seem to only think one move at a time rather than displaying flexibility.

That's a start of what is wrong with this time. Fixing it, would seem to have to start at the top.

Mitch - your post speaks the truth. Until this business model is exposed and taken apart - just expect more of the same.

The curse of the "rally fries"

Get rid of the idiotic "rally fries" AND mike blowers and the curse will be lifted and the M's will start to win.

You can choose to keep the begging for french fries contest and the egomaniac blowers or you can choose to have a winning team. The two will never go together.

By the time someone figures it out and gets rid of blowers and his french fry begging contest it will be too late for this year.

Batista is in his late 30's - nagging injuries are a common problems for guys in that age group. I think Batista's days as an efective starter might just be over. RRS should take his spot in the rotation. I'd have put Baek in too and sent Washburn to the pen, but too late for that. Maybe use Dickey instead.

The point isn't to punish those guys, or even to try and "turn it around" now. This season is toast. Time to figure out if Baek (oops, make that Dickey) and Rowland-Smith can hold down the back end of the rotation for the bulk of the season. I'd put them in there and leave them for the year. No two-week stint followed by more thrashing - just give them 20 starts or so to see what they can do.

I'd do the same thing with Ibanez to DH and Reed starting in LF. Yeah, maybe it upsets Raul to DH, but might as well let him start making the adjustment now instead of in the offseason, and it's time to give Reed one last shot. It's been two years since he had a real shot and he's destroyed AAA pitching in those two years. Tell him he's the everyday LF for the rest of the season. See what he can do with it. If he still doesn't hit, then we look for another LF in the offseason.

Or maybe Ibanez makes the switch to 1b midseason. That would probably really throw him off, but, again, let's start early. Call Clement back up and stick him at DH (or 1b, just get him in the lineup). Clement isn't going to learn to hit ML pitching in Tacoma. Call him up, stick him in the lineup, tell him he's there for the rest of the year whatever he does.

Batista and Washburn are not part of a contending 2009 rotation. Sexson is not part of next year's contending lineup. Ibanez isn't going to be playing LF for a 2009 contender (though his bat should still be in the lineup). Vidro is not part of next year's contender. No point running them out there any more, we need to find out what other parts we have.

"Yes, many of us saw this coming because we are intelligent baseball fans, not blind followers chasing hopes and dreams (like Barack Obama and his supporters "vote for me, hope and change blah blah blah no actual policy or positions, hope and change!")."

Just because you are too lazy to research something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Geoff,

I really enjoy watching your videos showcasing the different ballparks. please continue doing this. we all dream of being able to watch a game in every MLB ballpark, but it's just not feasible for all of us. I envy your job.

I'm sad that I'm never going to get the opportunity to visit the current yankee stadium and boo the hell out of them. it'd be really cool if you posted an extensive video showing the perspective of the players from the dugout and a couple views from various parts of the ballpark.

keep up the good work!

Faceplant - Its baseball not politics - but why don't you go plant your face in the crack of GWB's ass? You know you love it there.

Let Fierabend pitch. He can't be any worse than Batista and Washedupburn have been.

Also, will someone teach Washburn how to pitch in the bottom half of the strike zone please. He apparently refuses to realize that if you leave a pitch up, it's gonna get hit hard.

Thank you, Faceplant. I love it when semi-literate dolts of varying stripes show up to inculcate our dialogue on the M's with their politics.

Besides, Bedard, Ichiro, Johjima, Beltre, Lopez, Felix, RRS, etc. can't even vote in these United States of America. Hey, maybe if they were all Missouri Synod Lutheran neo-cons from Iowa this team would be winning.

I've got an idea...Hire me as the GM. I'll trade for Griffey, ship Sexson, Vidro, and Washburn to the Moon...oh, and I'll head over to Redmond and talk Edgar out of retirement. Come to think of it I'll stop by Microsoft and see if some of the head-honchos there are interested in buying the team and ARE NOT AFRAID of going after high priced free agents that are proven and develop a farm system. Just an idea, it's better than what we have now.

With things going so bad, I come here for laughs, and maybe the funniest thing I've read here today is that things would be different if Jose Guillen were in the clubhouse being the leader. I just think of 2004, when Scioscia kicked Guillen off the team during a pennant race and the Angels players basically said "good riddance" to his 104 RBIs and .849 OPS. No doubt Guillen played hard and very effectively for the M's, but if his clubhouse presence is the main thing standing between 88 wins last year and 90 losses this year, he should be making like $30 million a year and the Royals should be in first place.

Ellis to replace Bavasi? One of the indelible images of the post-Smulyan era is John Ellis breaking down at the podium when the state threatened to mitigate the public subsidies for his Boys Club. One of the prime architects of this Chinese-style capitalism, Crocodile Tears Johnny should remain lurking in the shadows of the luxury suites.

I love all this fire him, release him talk. That's fine, but have some solutions when you make statements like that.

Fire McLaren: Ok, and replace him with who? Bobby Valentine? Bobby is a disciplinarian and works well with a veteran group that needs direction. His in game strategies have been proven to be questionable. Let's be honest, we don't really know what kind of manager McLaren will be, since he hasn't been dealt a good hand of cards to play with. It's certainly not McLaren's fault that Batista and Washburn can't get into the fifth inning. I say you let McLaren ride and see what you get. If you hire a new GM, let him decide if he can work with McLaren or he wants to go in a different direction.

Fire Bavasi: I'm all for this, but replace him with who? There is only one candidate out there that excites me, and that's Antonetti. But he's under contract with the Orioles and I don't think they'd let him even discuss another position until the off season. Besides the amateur draft is coming in June and you need to have your GM focus there. I say let Bavasi ride until the end of the season and then you try your best to bring in Antonetti. If you can't get Antonetti, stick with Bavasi. Change for changes sake, especially at GM, never works.

DFA Sexson: Ok, and who will play first base? Ibanez? This might work, but remember this is a business and the Mariners would have to eat Sexson's $14 million salary. It was a tough pill to swallow Wilkerson's $2 million salary. At least by playing him you get some return for your money, and maybe he'll go on a hot streak and you can find a taker at the trade deadline.

As I've been for a couple of weeks now, I'll continue to be amazed each day Mac is allowed to manage another game.

Somebody, most likely it's a large group, who refuse to own up to the fact that letting him manage this year was an awful mistake.

And, it continues to reach new levels of incompetance. Now we're letting go of pitchers who should be given a shot to start, but instead have been mishandled and finally shown the door.

I suspect in the end Baek finally gave up and just pitched to get out of town. Watch him turn out to be a solid starter for somebody else. And, we'll get nothing in return. And, everyone will be howling about that like they're howling about how well Greg Norton is doing in Atlanta.

"Thank you, Faceplant. I love it when semi-literate dolts of varying stripes show up to inculcate our dialogue on the M's with their politics."

I love it when people know what they are talking about. If you actually read much of what I wrote you would know that I'm the first person to tell people to knock the politics off. But that one I couldn't help myself on. Intellectual laziness has become a societal problem for the United States in politics, AND baseball, AND many other things.

"Faceplant - Its baseball not politics - but why don't you go plant your face in the crack of GWB's ass? You know you love it there."

Man, what a joke you trolls are. It's predominately you trolls that bring up politics repeatedly, and when I make one response you flame me as if I'm the one trying to hijack the baseball threads.

Some people really have no life.

We're mired in the bad old days of the dome with no end in sight...

The Ms are a club with at least three starters struggling and Bavasi sends down Baek?? What kind of move is that? Baek couldn't possibly pitch as bad as has Washburn and Batista. Removing either of the existing starters in favor of Baek would have been an upgrade.

Now Baek is going to get picked up by another team and he'll probably succeed. Baek has proven to this team he is a viable 4th or 5th starter. And this is how they treat him? There is no doubt that Baek has not been treated fairly by the club. He's been placed in a position where he was doomed. Way to go Bavasi,

Anyway, back to baseball talk.

This is what happens when you try and construct a roster through free agency. Especially a starting rotation.

The Mariners have a history of grossly overpaying for "proven veterans", especially in the pitching department. Jarrod Washburn, and Carlos Silva are the latest examples. Baek has practically been the same pitcher as Washburn this year, and he's done it for close to the league minimum. Washburn is in the third year of a 24? million dollar contract. Baek gets released. Jarrod gets a personal catcher.

If that isn't a bright, shining example of what is wrong with this team, then I don't know what is.

scrapiron, there's plenty of guys who could be manager. Frankly, there are three ex-managers on the coachig staff that could fill-in now, Riggleman, Rodriguez and Perlazzo.

Either would fit in well as interim manager. I'd go with Riggleman, myself.

Then, after Bavasi is fired after the season let the new GM hire his own man. Quit letting ownership and people no longer here make those kinds of decisions. That's been done enough.

Can someone explain to me why we traded Norton and held on to Vidro? It should have happened the other way. Now this moronic stunt of moving Baek. Who is mind behind all of these stupid moves. As stupid is as stupid does, Forrest Gump would be a better manager than McLaren.

To be more specific, Baek was making 392,500 dollars, while Washburn is making 9,850,000 dollars to pretty much pitch at the same level.

To those who thought Bob Melvin was a good manager you are sadly mistaken. He was bad in Seattle and bad in Arizona.

Just watched Bob Melvin down 0-1 in the 7th inning allow Dan Haren his starter hit at the plate with 2 outs with a runner on first base electing not to pinch-hit. (Auggie Ojeda) makes no attempt to steal second, (keep in mind, using a pinch-hitter for the pitcher in late innings in the National League is quite standard strategy.)

Now in the 8th, Haren is gassed and allowed two runners to reach base on hits and he looks done despite pitching less than 100 pitches, but showed obvious signs he was tiring. The Marlins now have scored another two runs on Haren, Melvin is yanking Haren out with 1 out. It's 0-4 Marlins.

1. Bob Melvin is still a horrible manager.
2. Bryan Price still abuses pitchers and cannot instinctively determine when a pitcher is tired.

IMO, any success Arizona had was due to loads of talent. This explains how Hargrove had success in Cleveland with a loaded roster of All-Star players. Bad managers cannot get away with average to below average players.

Faceplant - you are the one who is intellectually lazy, following the brain dead philosophy of the neo-cons - get your head out of your behind. Dick Cheney has a job for you, just snuggle up to his behind and plant your face. Eat the rich!

Riggleman ruined Kerry Wood. It would be fun for fans and the media to see Lee Elia as a skipper again. LOL.

"Faceplant - you are the one who is intellectually lazy, following the brain dead philosophy of the neo-cons - get your head out of your behind."

LOL! That would be the first time I was ever called a neocon! You really don't have the slightest clue about me. Kind of amusing actually.

"Riggleman ruined Kerry Wood. It would be fun for fans and the media to see Lee Elia as a skipper again. LOL."

Agreed. Riggleman is pretty terrible. For those who hate McLaren but want Riggleman, who exactly do you think brought Riggleman on board?

I don't understand the rationale of continuing to play the high priced free agents as the team continues to spiral downward. There has to be a point where wins have to be more important than playing time for these high priced cry babies.

If we are losing with Beltre, Sexson, Ichiro and Washburn sit them down. It's absolutely demoralizing to watch them not perform to their expectations. Bring up more players from Tacoma. What do the Ms have to lose?? The Ms can't go any further down than they are now.

Right now, the Ms are the cure for any team that is struggling.

Mariner Tonic Goes to New York!

Thanks Geoff for the solid questions! Seems the Reality of it all has finaly reached everyone.

Finally!!!

Hey, Faceplant. I was sincerely thanking you for calling the guy out. He was the one calling himself an intelligent baseball fan, then, in the next sentence spouting off some simplistic, stupid political diatribe.

I, frankly, couldn't care what anyones' politics is in this blog. My point was, why bring in politics or religion into our discussions about the Mariners and MLB?

Good read Geoff....
looking at the comments, the answer is not trading Clement, or (I hate to say) Morrow. The answer is biting the bullet at this point and doing what really needs to be done.......clear the roster of the older vets who are not doing their jobs...Sexson, Vidro, Cairo, Washburn, Batista, etc.

If we are going to trade people, it needs to be people with some sort of value......Ibanez, Yuni, or maybe Lopez. Its kind of ridiculous to sit here and make trade recommendations....most people simply post what they want to see, not whats realistic......

Give Dickey and Feierabend rotation spots. Give Reed the full time LF job, Clement the full time 1B job, and Bloomquist the fulltime 2B or SS job....its not like they are worse than we are trotting out there now.

I'm not a huge believer in "chemistry", but the losing attitude needs to go.......this has gone well beyond "being afraid to lose" and is entering the "expecting to lose" levels.

Geoff - What's the difference between a ballplayer who is trying to stay positive, trying not to do too much, trying to make incremental improvements... vs. a ballplayer who's simply in very deep denial?

I'm not asking rhetorically, I'm actually asking. I'm not a sports psychologist (or any other kind). I really do wonder how much you can get from interviewing a pitcher, or a struggling hitter, after a certain point. It's their job to stay focused, positive and constructively self-critical. It's up to objective 3rd parties (coaches, trainers, manager) to decide whether their best just isn't good enough, or if they're working on the wrong things, or anything else to adjust them.

In other words, I would be stunned if Batista simply said, "Yep, I sucked the pipe out there. I really should be benched for a couple starts and start from scratch. In fact, the more Ithink about the laundry list of injuries and fatigued parts I have, I gotta wonder if I should just retire and fall back to my real passions, writing and flute." He's not going to be objective about it. Even the quietest, most mild-mannered ballplayers have significant pride and ego; you'd have to, to play a game that specifically involves being watched and occasionally cheered by thousands of people every day.

Oh, and...

So, now you know the parameters of the next decision McLaren has to make.

...do you seriously think Mac is going to be the one to make that decision? How does he keep his job past this weekend?

A team with this size payroll at dead last in the standings will be making changes far larger than whether to let Batista miss a start. When 8 of the 10 lowest attendances have occurred in a season only two months old, the team owners will soon be making fundamental changes to appease an ever larger group of angry, disappearing fans.

At this point, I believe McLaren's removal is inevitable- the only question is when. Nothing against the guy, but you don't address an embarrassing problem of this magnitude by simply designating Baek for assignment. Is Bavasi safe? Of course not. Not when revenues plummet as they no doubt are. No one in the Mariner's organization is safe at the moment. Sure, I'd like to see the guys miraculously turn it around- what fan wouldn't? But, even the most die hard of M's fans can see no happy ascent with the club as bad as it is today.

I keep thinking about this card game my family used to play. Sometimes, when you had a really lousy hand, you had the option of turning in all your cards for fresh ones. You had to wait a turn til you could play again, but at least there was the chance that your game would turn around. Sadly, it's clear the Mariner's season is already over. Overhauling the structure for future seasons is the smartest move, all around.

I know the Yankees are getting Joba Chamberlain ready to start How long do you think Morrow would have to be in the minors to get ready for the rotation?

I think we have to consider it especially when the ship is sinking and sinking fast.All options need to be explored.

f they ever do remove McLaren, maybe they should promote the coach from the Rainiers. I absolutely agree that there's no one on the Ms current staff that can take over and salvage the rest of the season. The team needs to take the ground zero approach and start from scratch.

All of these ridiculous comments about who should start, who should be in the rotation, who should be DFA'd, who should be called up, etc. are totally meaningless. This so called "team" needs to be dismantled and rebuilt from top to bottom....BY ANYONE BUT BAVASI. Get rid of practically everyone with any value in exchange for prospects. This process should begin as soon as Bavasi is canned, as he is obviously incapable of building a team. How this FO can sit on their fat asses while Bavasi totally destroys the team is beyond comprehension. I don't think it would be possible to do any more to damage the M's than Bavasi has done if you tried.

Group...
What makes any of you think that changing the manager will have ANY effect. Do not get me wrong, Mac has made many bad decisions every day this month...but must realize that EVERY COACH on this team has given Mac suggestions on how to turn each & every player around...and each coach has tried to do it a player at a time as well.
THIS ENTIRE coaching staff is FAILING.
Moreover, ANY replacement for Mac is coming from this group...thus nothing will change.
NOTHING.
And Nothing will change until a VIABLE and hopefully baseball wise GM changes the personnel on this team.

It's almost like Bavasi is Wiley E. Coyote, chasing after a world series like it was the road runner. He shops at ACME for the next sure fix only to realize he's spent all he has on a piece of junk. Yet, just like good 'ol Wiley, he keeps going back to ACME thinking next time it will work; this time he's gonna get that road runner. There's a reason cartoons are as short as they are; the same joke can only seem funny for so long. I'd say 5 years is long enough. I'm tired of the same old joke.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/20/sports/baseball/20yankees.html

Let the campaign for Brian Cashman begin!

this is a waste of bandwidth !

Yes folks, it's that time of year again. That time when the proverbial fork has been put in the Mariners before June. That wonderous time when Dave Niehaus stops calling the action and instead, to keep us entertained, starts telling amusing anecdotes throughout the entire inning and game.

"Top of the fourth, strike one to Lopez. So about those Rally Fries, Mike. What the Fu..."

(skip to end of inning, sans play-by play)

"...and that was how Koufax created the internet. True Story! And that's out number 3 on another Sexson strike out."

ahhh, the days of summer are near. Thank God for good old Dave, it's not like I have anything else like good baseball to listen to. At least he tells good stories. Pity for him his career has been mired by calling atrocious baseball for the majority of his career.

Steve Kelley brought up a good point on his show tonight, saying that this team is full of selfish players. When was the last time you saw Ichiro lay down a bunt, or put up a sacrifice fly, or lace a needed double down the line. We have heard he could win the HR Derby, so where is that power when it is needed?

"When was the last time you saw Ichiro lay down a bunt, or put up a sacrifice fly, or lace a needed double down the line."

Sacrifice bunts are bad strategy in almost every case, trying to hit a sacrifice fly (which entails making an out) is bad strategy in almost every case (especially for Ichiro, who seldom strikes out or hits grounders weak enough to not allow a runner at third to score) and any player capable of lacing double down the line at will would be the most valuable player in the history of baseball. The Mariners are bad because the back end of their rotation is replacement level at best, their defense is the worst in the league at turning balls into play into outs and they don't get on base enough. There might be other factors that are causing them to under perform a bit, but no amount of extra batting practice, chemistry or unselfish, positive attitude could make them contenders.

This isn't to say that they shouldn't be called out for mailing it in, but to attribute their record to anything but poor roster construction and a lack of skill is disingenuous.

Geoff...one question (2-parts): Has McLaren lost this team? Does he command respect with his players, or is it beyond him at this point?

"Hey, Faceplant. I was sincerely thanking you for calling the guy out. He was the one calling himself an intelligent baseball fan, then, in the next sentence spouting off some simplistic, stupid political diatribe."

In that case I apologize. Sorry if I was a bit testy, but it's hard not to be when you are stuck watching this team.

Just got back from the Rainiers game. Pretty boring game until the end. Jeff Clement homered in his third straight game, this one absolutely crushed just to the right of the CF fence. Easily over 400 feet. Rainiers ended up losing 7-4.

Oh, and Joe Woerman is a pile of hot garbage. Don't have a clue why he's on the 40 man.

And on the off chance Woerman reads this blog... Nothing personal man.

So I've had a little bit of time to think about the Mariners and what happens next. I've tried to think about it from all angles and take all considerations into account.

I understand that the organization invested heavily in 2008, making any drastic changes to the roster and/or coaching staff difficult ones. Perhaps it is this investment which could preclude the team from making any drastic changes. I know we are almost unanimous in our wishes to have the team dismantled and rebuilt (I was calling for a re-tooling before the Bedard trade, but that's neither here nor there ;) ). I have real doubts that ownership will allow a rebuilding. Especially when ticket sales are more important than wins to those gentlemen.

As such, here are the considerations for the FO:

1. What direction to take? Do they try to reload for 2009? Or do they acknowledge that 2010 is a more realistic target?

2. What to do with Bavasi? His track record is very poor. But I get the feeling Howie and Chuck really like Bavasi, and I could see him around in 2009.

3. Is Mac a big-league manager? Again, I think Mac's lovability might get in the way, but he's probably gone.

4. What to do with Bedard? This may be dicated by the answer to #1. If they plan on going for 2009, he'll be back. But what if they have discovered he doesn't seem too interested in staying here? At what point do they make a tough decision and consider trading him? Perhaps even before the season ends?

5. The status of Beltre. His contract is up after 2009, and there is a chance he may not come back. Same deliberations as with Bedard.

6. Cutting the dead weight. Vidro and Sexson are in the last year of their deals. They will not be back. Washburn and Batista will be gone after 2009, but perhaps NL teams would take them. Ibanez's contract is up after 2008. Would a contender take him before the trade deadline? I've previously called for an Ibanez/Aaron Laffey trade; however, that may be too late, as Laffey has been terrific since being called up.

7. The philosophy vis-a-vis young prospects. They've mishandled Brandon Morrow. They've screwed Jeff Clement over. They did the same to Adam Jones. Once and for all, the organization must make a decision regarding how it will use and develop young prospects.

8. Felix, Felix, Felix. At some point, the M's have to make a big-boy offer to the most talented pitcher alive. They just have to. Get him in the fold for years to come and make a statement as so many other teams are with their young players. Look at the Rays, for crying out loud.

9. Defense matters - it's time this organization realized that defense is important. Time to do something about it.

So those are the relevant issues.

We'll see what happens. I'm not holding my breath for anything inspiring...

since when did Geoff write a book? it doesnt sound very interesting.

Really? I've heard that here's a sample of some of the chapters:

Ch 1: baseball-the toronto years
Ch 2: baseball-the toronto years, pt 2
Ch 3: let me tell you about your team-from a toronto perspective
Ch 4: don't like my answers?-tough!, find another blog
Ch 5:listen up bloggers-i'm the grownup, I'll ask the big league grown up questions

adam you are posting as faceplant again!

i don't agre with your 7 "relevant issues" because none of it makes any sense. felix has shown that he is not the solution. he has proven that he is a failed experiment. i doubt he has much of a trade value at this point in his career.

who the heck are the nearly 600 people who voted on the espn sportsnation poll saying they believed the Mariners were the team most likely to recover from their bad start to make the postseason???????? Wow!

...and only about a third of them voted from WA!

Adam-

Solid points all, but 9 is key. Defense is currently the most under valued commodity in the game. You suggested looking at the Rays as an example of smart teams locking up young players; they also serve as an example of the huge importance of defense. Look at the M's teams of 2001, 2002 and especially 2003. Defense is huge.

ricofoy-

Felix Hernandez would fetch an absolute king's ransom in trade. His stuff is unparalleled. He just turned 22 years old. If you are ready to give up on him you're absolutely insane. There are 31 other teams that would absolutely kill to have them on their team.

In some ways I'm thankful that we've tanked so early. I think it gives us a chance to move this thing into clearinghouse status. Once that's done, bring up the kids. I would much rather spend the season watching our call-ups lose, than I would watching veterans such as Vidro/Cairo/Sexson/Washburn/Batista, lose.

I think at this point the only absolute untouchables should be J.J., Felix and Bedard. I think you listen to offers on everyone else. That would stock your farm system for years to come. Sure, it sets us back a couple of years before we are even remotely competitive (with that said, maybe Bedard shouldn't be untouchable, I don't know).

The reality is that this team in its current structure cannot win. The Mariners have relied on the free agent approach for too long. It doesn't work. All you have to do is look at the successful teams of late and you'll see that they've built from the inside. When they need some last minute assistance they go get an experienced veteran. Not the other way around.

Unfortunately, the Johjima signing will put a log jam behind the plate and there's NO WAY the ownership would authorize a trade of him or Ichiro. That's a shame. Could you imagine the sort of talent we could get if they traded Ichiro at the deadline? It would be HUGE. Don't get me wrong, I love Ichiro but the point is that the current approach of this team doesn't work. Maybe the 1 & 2 spots of your starting pitching, along with your pen, are ok. But the position players as they're currently structured just can't do it.

Let's stock our minor leagues and then start looking toward 2010, 2011.

Geoff - Just a few random thoughts: Last year (and even early this year) I thought you had just the greatest job for a baseball nut. Just following the team from game to game, getting an inside look at things - wonderful. But now I'm thinking, what a horrible assignment, travelling from city to city in order to watch this team get pounded day after day.

You can't fire every player on the team, so really there's no choice but to fire the manager. It really looks like the team will not play good, consistent baseball for McLaren. Why? Who knows. But unless the M's turn it around and start winning (which seems very unlikely), I think McLaren will be gone by the end of May.

A visit to the disabled list helped Jeff Weaver recover a bit of effectiveness last year. I wouldn't be surprised to see Batista,and maybe Washburn as well, joining the D.L.

With 150+ contributions to this thread, and several others in the past few days, it's apparent that we're still interested - that we still care. I have yet to become indifferent. When fans become indifferent, not angry but reaching the point of not really caring, then the season is lost (and blog contributions likely go down substantially from the current 100+).

It's not your job to argue with them? Are you f-ing kidding me?

Geoff. I like this blog. I like your videos of the trip to the games, and the pictures from the various stadiums. I like your writing, when you're not blatantly insulting your own readers.

But if you really believe it's not your job to "argue" with players, and let's be real, all that "argue" means in this context is to ask a followup question when you and the majority of the fanbase disagrees, then you aren't fit for this job. You're not. Maybe you're scared, maybe you're paranoid. Maybe you're just a hack, a claim I've disputed myself when MANY of the people in my circle bring it up. If so, PLEASE give your job to somebody, anybody, who will ask a tough question after being given a BS answer. That's what Mariners fans deserve after seven years of pathetic play, management, and press coverage.

Hold these guys over the fire, or please get out of my city. We're one of the best fanbases in the country, and we can only take so much.

Jack-

Geoff has asked tougher questions this year of the team and coaching staff than any beat writer we've ever had in this town. Any further questioning of Batista would have been fruitless. I disagree with Geoff a lot on matters of roster construction and analysis, but we're lucky to have him as a beat writer; he's pretty damned top notch.

Geoff,

As always, great story and great write-up in the Blog. It made me wonder why Batista hasn't done a 15-day stint on the DL to get over these ailments he complains of. I know personal achievement is important, but team is supposed to be more important and he is hurting his team. That, though, seems to be the recurring theme with many of these players we complain about on a daily basis.

Good point aaron c. You can't go around pissing everybody off or you will have nothing of any substance to add to the story, but hearsay and cliches. There has to be some finesse and ability to make these guys feel comfortable when you are around because I am sure they see Geoff all the time.

Has anyone done a comparison between Washburn / Batista 2008 and Rameriez / Weaver 2007 at this point in the season?

It seems like I had this same rock in my gut each time they started last year that I am getting now.

I believe the problem is Bavasi and everyone above him. I see them micro managing this team. Look how well Bob Melvin is doing now.
If you look at the MLB bottom feeders, the Mariners and Padres, one of the differences between them is that their GM Towers realizes there is a problem. Bavasi is still trying to save face while putting Sexson in the line up everyday.

Guys,

It's awfully hard to DFA guys that are making millions. Usually you DFA guys that are either out of options or come cheap. Washburn and Sexson will not get DFA'd. Sadly, we are stuck with them unless magically someone is dumb enough to trade for them.

Adam,

I agree with you on every analysis you made in what you wrote last night. The only thing I wonder about is once we ante up the money to pay Felix how will he react?? Will he just go out there and go through the motions now that he has big money, or will he finally live up to the hype that he has had since he was 17.

Very interesting comments though. You are always a good read, at least for me.

Geoff,

Would you please address whether you think that players on this team are simply being asked to do things which they are not suited for? For example, I do not think that Lopez is a number 3 hitter. Beltre and Ibanez both seem like number 5 or 6 hitters on a good team. I think back to Guillen who they let walk over money. If Gullien were on the team and hitting third , would not these other players then be in positions which better suited their ability level?

You know how people say, "I could do a better job than him!" And everyone is like "Yeah right" And everybody really knows thats BS?

Well, you know what? I honestly do think I could do a better job than Bill Bavasi and I think most people probably could. Anybody with a little bit of common sense could.

I give him credit on doing what it took to get Bedard, Sexson, and Beltre when the M's needed to have the types of players that those guys COULD have been. But trying to make a contending ball club out of used scraps like Brad Wilkerson, Jarrod Washburn, Miguel Batista, and Miguel Cairo is an absolute joke. And his trades have been downright awful, stripping this team of its young talent.

He is way overdue for a swift kick in the butt out of Seattle.

From Rotoworld.com on Jeff Clement......

"Triple-A Tacoma's Jeff Clement homered in a third straight game on Thursday.

So what if Jose Vidro has one RBI this month. He's experienced and overpaid, the first two things the Mariners look for when it comes to putting together their lineup. Clement and his 1263 OPS in Triple-A just don't compare."

Very Nice!!!

"Would you please address whether you think that players on this team are simply being asked to do things which they are not suited for? For example, I do not think that Lopez is a number 3 hitter. Beltre and Ibanez both seem like number 5 or 6 hitters on a good team. I think back to Guillen who they let walk over money. If Gullien were on the team and hitting third , would not these other players then be in positions which better suited their ability level?"

C'mon man - this is baseball. These guys have played their whole lives and now make millions. Batting 1st or 9th shouldn't make a lick of difference. Clubhouse chemistry should not matter. The reason Lopez is in the 3 hole is because no one can do it effectively. That's what happens when $118M worth of players collectively play like a pile of garbage - things get moved around and mixed up.

More of that should be going and more of these stiffs should be sent packing. Jose Guillen was not coming back here - whether it was the $10M a year or use of PEDs. I would not be surprised if there were more reasons why he's not back - not like he cmae with a great reputation.

1 or 2 pieces is not going to fix this team people. Listen to Mac after the games - the dude is the worst cliche guy in the game. He sounds whiny and sad and perplexed - has not a clue what to do. This team is in shambles and we need to quit making them out to be so FRAGILE. These are men, they have played on many, many clubs and they're paid to do a job. They don't do it - they get canned. The pink slip line is long with this group and 1/2 should be Bavasi and Mac.

Yankees will be back on track after this weekend.

Geoff, your lecture about 'grown0up' talk is nice, problem is grown-ups don't always tell the truth and as we all know, they do a terrible job as world leaders, etc, etc.
You want the truth, talk to a kid. And so I'll paraphrase my kid: "These guys aren't very good - why do they play like this? Can't they bring in someone else?"
That's a watered down vesion of the truth: The M's do 'suck' and must make whole-sale changes.
All this talk of skipping turns in the rotation, soar arms, adjustments - blah blah blah.
Any rational, unbiased observer would come to the same conclusion about their own business. Time to make wholesale changes and quit overanalizing the pile of crud we have on that team right now.
Have a fun summer covering this team. I'll be at the lake, hiking and enjoying life.
Because as Don Henley said in a popular song - "There's jus so many summers babe, so many springs" and I'm not wasting this one on a horrid product.

It’s tiring hearing the M’s (Burke, Charlton, Vidro) and announcer’s (Valle, Blowers) justify McLaren’s continuance with the old generic phrase: “McLaren doesn’t hit or pitch, the players do.” Exactly. Coaches have influence on the strategy, motivation, and other subtle non-tangibles of their team that influence performance. In the current NBA playoffs, the road teams have a 3-20 record, although the same players for any given team play on the road and at home. Last year, the M’s….with the same players…tanked after McLaren took over. McLaren is not a good coach, and his player’s are limited not only by their abilities.

WHe will the Ms realize McLaren is a bust? The team collapsed under his "leadership" last year and with better personnel he can't get the job done. I live in KC. The Royals can't wait for the Ms to stop by.

John McGrath of the TNT had a great article on John McLaren today. He noted that in 30 more games McLaren would have a full 162 games as a manager under his belt. If the M's win 20 of the next 30 games his record would be .500. So put McLaren on notice that if he wins 20 out of the next 30 games, he keeps his job. Otherwise, he's had a full season to prove himself and it didn't work. I think it's a fair decision point, and maybe putting him on the hotseat will have him manage with more urgency.

Urgency might make Sexson sit on the bench. Urgency might make Clement the full time DH.

Time for a starting rotation change
We need to groom Morrow and RRS for the starting rotation now. I'd also give Feirabend an extended look as well.

My suggestions:
Put Morrow in the starting rotation now. Let him go 2 innings his next start, 3 after that, etc. Slowly stretch him out each outing until he can go 6-7 innings. Make Washburn his assigned long reliever. That way Wash is pitching on his normal rest, and is only counted on to go 3-5 innings a night, which he is only good for now anyway.

Do the same rotation with RRS, with Batista as his designated long reliever.

This accomplishes several things:
1. You stretch out RRS and Morrow and get them ready to be full time starters without pitch limits in 2009. If either completely struggles in the role, you move them back to the bullpen and call up Feirabend in their place.
2. This gives you a L-R, R-L pitching combination, making it difficult to set batting orders against.
3. Batista has complained of injuries, this reduces his innings so he can get heathy.
4. Washburn has said he wanted to follow a hard throwing right hander in the rotation, since he said it would make him more effective. How about he follow a hard throwing right hander in the same game to make him more effective. Coming in behind Morrow's 95 mph heat should help to shake up the batting order, if only temporarily.

scrapiron: nice thought, but there is no way the M's will win 20 out of the next 30. No way.

The rest of the season presents the Ms an opportunity to learn about themselves going forward. It gives Reed a shot to prove he might actually be a big-league hitter. It allows us to evaluate whether Balentien improves enough to be an everyday player. It lets us bring Clement up to prove himself versus big league pitching. It allows us to see if Johjima can still hit. And the double play twins can either progress, regress or stay the same. All of that is what should happen going forward, right now. Morrow should go down to learn to start.

Raul should get some time at first to see how he does. He has more value to the team (or in a trade) if he can do more than play a bad LF and DH. If he can play first then Clement can DH if we decide to keep Johjima. If Raul can't then either Johjima or Clement should go.

But why would Bavasi/McLaren buy into this? They are in job saving mode and they both believe to the bottom of their hearts that Vidro & Sexson give them a better chance to get on a winning streak and save their jobs.

Faceplant or Scrapiron (sorry, can't remember) requested solutions: I feel the same way. I get tired of people sitting around and pointing out the obvious - the M's SUCK - without offering ways to start improving.
Here are my suggestions.

The problem on this team is leadership, from the top on down.

We have a fragmented ownership that keeps fans in the dark on the reasons behind doing what we do. (i.e. the Johjima deal)

The front office doesn't seem to have a clear plan. Bavasi has proven time and time again that his ideas for improvingthe team involve taking mediocre guys off injury-plagued seasons and somehow hoping lightning flies out of their buttts. His trades have not just failed, but failed spectacularly, with the Ramirez for Soriano deal being the most glaring example.

Our manager is a "player-friendly" guy, which is the absolute worst kind of manager on a team like Seattle. Guys like Washburn, Batista, Sexson, etc., don't need someone to hold their hand and blow sunshine up their rears like McClaren did at the start of this season. A disciplinarian like Lou never would have allowed half of the crap and whining that goes on with this team.

On the field, we have no real strong leaders other than maybe Putz, who can't do much with the offense anyway. Besides, this team is so fractured into its many little corners of the lockerroom, I don't think any one player could necessarily get all of them to jump rope at the same time.

All those reasons are why it's time for a purge.
Bavasi needs to go.
McClaren needs to go.
Washburn needs to be traded for the bag of balls and box of Big League chew that he's worth.
Sexson needs to be benched then be allowed to go ride the pine for a different team next season.
Replace Washburn in the lineup with Dickey. I don't think Brian LaHair is the long-term answer at first, but let the guy have half a season at the ML level to see what he can do.
Batista needs to be sent to the bullpen. I think you replace him in the rotation with Morrow, who can be worked into the starting rotation slowly over the course of the rest of the season.

Ibanez needs to be moved to DH and Reed should start in left.

There you have it. Those moves won't result in a lot more wins, but we're a minor league already, so why not clean house and start over right now.

scrapiron,

I actually like your idea of having "designated backups" for the young guns. I only have one problem with it... when you call guys up you have to send guys down or kick them to the curb. If we call up two extra pitchers an retain Wash & Miggy then who do we send down/out? I know the answer lies somewhere between, Cairo , Bloomquist, Sexson, Vidro, et al, but we've been talking about having a lame bench, at least a lame bench is better than no bench.

LOL! Who is impersonating Scrapiron today? Those are some of the worst posts I've seen since Mindblog's heyday.

"He noted that in 30 more games McLaren would have a full 162 games as a manager under his belt. If the M's win 20 of the next 30 games his record would be .500. "

You can't add games together from different seasons and determine anything. That's just lazy journalism. It's the same as the people who pointed to Bloomquist's .455/.526/.576 after 12 games in 2002 as some sort of indication of what kind of player he would be. McLaren should be fired, and the team's record should have nothing at all to do with it. He's a bad manager, a poor leader, and a poor decision maker. That's enough for me. A .500 record after 162 games over 2 seasons just means that the team overachieved and caught a few breaks. Unless you can point to a certain number of games that were won due to in-game decisions made by McLaren, it makes no difference at all. Being able to fill out a lineup card is not a good reason to keep that job.

Then there's this gem:

"Put Morrow in the starting rotation now. Let him go 2 innings his next start, 3 after that, etc. Slowly stretch him out each outing until he can go 6-7 innings. Make Washburn his assigned long reliever. That way Wash is pitching on his normal rest, and is only counted on to go 3-5 innings a night, which he is only good for now anyway."

This is as good a reason as any to have some kind of registration system on the blog. Scrapiron might be "out there" sometimes, but this is a clear example of troll impersonation. So, you're going to tell me that McLaren or any other manager would pull Morrow after 2 or 3 innings of no-hit ball, and put Wasburn in there to give up 5 runs in the very next inning? Same goes for RRS. It's just not going to happen in a real-life situation. Fantasy baseball is not baseball. Teams have starters and relievers for a reason.

"Agreed. Riggleman is pretty terrible. For those who hate McLaren but want Riggleman, who exactly do you think brought Riggleman on board?" --- Faceplant

FP, can you name me any successful manager that isn't hard , or at least isn't soft, on pitchers, Even Sweet Lou has his reputation with pitchers.

Kerry Wood had arm problems because he threw 100-mph with poor mechanics. Who his manager was at the time had little to do with it.

So, do you blame the manager for any and every arm injury a pitcher has? Sounds like it. Hey, pitchers with poor mechanics break down! It's a fact of baseball.

Fortunately, under McLaren, no pitcher has broken down, yet (maybe, unfortunately). And, we've got the worst record in the American League, and getting worse by the day.

So, what do you want? Win games and compete for a playoff spot, or not risk pitchers getting hurt?

Riggleman did manage to get the Cubs into the playoffs once (1998). Which is not something McLaren looks to be capable of doing for the Mariners. I'm sure you'd love it if Lou would come back and do that for the M's. But, to you, for Jim Riggleman to do that would make him a "terrible manager", if a pitcher should break down along the way.

And, as to who hired Riggleman, he may be the one coach Bavasi made McLaren take over his other buddies. Unless he WAS a guy Mac wanted on his new veteran coaching staff. Regardless, when Mac goes, and he's as good as gone now, it only makes sense Bavasi installs his choice to be interim manager for the team Bavasi put together. Then, if things continue to fail, then they all go in October.

The M's. are Number # 1 this season... in the LOSING. WooHoo FIRST! "I wake up in the morning, & P!SS Excellence." - Ricky Bobby

Scrapiron,

I like your thoughts about RRS and Morrow starting and letting Washburn and Batista do long relief to back them up. I do have one question though?? Who replaces Morrow in the 8th inning?? I think it's it's the same question that you could ask the Yankees about Joba Chamberlain.

Having present management make changes makes little sense. Management has failed and they are going to be replaced soon.

Any moves now ought to be handled by new management that ownership really believes can get the team to where it needs to go.

Moving players around, trading one or two people, etc is not going to do anything except maybe hamper what new management would do.

Clean house of Bavasi now or at the end of the season. Then let new management assess where we're at and start building the club from the ground up.

Bavasi and Mac may be great guys, but it's not working. Hold them accountable and move on.

And to whoever wrote this glittering jewel of colossal ignorance:

"C'mon man - this is baseball. These guys have played their whole lives and now make millions. Batting 1st or 9th shouldn't make a lick of difference. Clubhouse chemistry should not matter."

Yes, they should, and yes they do. There are a million things that "matter", and that make a difference when human beings are involved. Intelligence matters. Percieved pressure matters, and it varies from player to player and how they react to said pressure. The last meal before the game matters. The last 10 meals matter. The hotel room pillow on away games will matter. A player's last conversation with his wife/girlfriend will matter. The other team will make a difference. The opposing pitcher will matter. Instructions called in from the bench. Number of runners on base, which bases they are on, and who they are will matter. The inning will matter. I could go on, but there's really no reason. As long as the game is being played by humans, there will be plenty to distract them and/or affect the game.

A couple of points worth pondering.....

1. We all agree that Mac is overmatched as a manager. He's put together bad lineups daily, makes terrible in game decisions, etc.....not point really cant be argued.

We agree that Bavasi is a nice guy, who is a poor GM.....he gets far too much credit for his time in Anaheim (No, i won't call them LA Angels), and his moves here have been mind boggling.....I mean epically bad.

But, nothing has changed in how this team is run over the last 3 GMS....which means the real problem runs much deeper than the manager and GM.....I think we have to look a little higher at Lincoln and Co. We all know these clowns don't sit by and simply watch.....we know that Lou had serious issues with them, we all remember the comments Lincoln made about "Not trying to win the WS in any given year, but putting a competitive team on the field"......there needs to be some accountability from the top, and until there is change at that level, we're just spinning our wheels.

2. No one on the roster should be untouchable......NO ONE. While I'm not actively shopping Ichiro, Beltre, Felix, or Bedard.....I'll listen to offers where teams might overpay for them.

Before people flip out......Ichiro is a fantastic talent, who puts butts in the seats....but he is not a player you build a franchise around, he is ideally a supporting player. As such, we're paying a 34 yr old CF a lot of money for what he does. Ichiro would definitely bring us a major haul of talent, and if a team wanted to give us good value....

I make the trade. Same with Beltre, he is underrated, but replaceable.

I know a lot of the Felix love comes from the USSM.......but I think Felix is very overrated. The kid has done nothing to earn his nickname, other than flash his talent here and there, and act like a Prima Donna constantly. The problem is the team has handled him very poorly, and i think in doing so has turned this kid into an unmanageable mess. While I'll be the first to admit he has a world of talent, by this point we should be seeing a lot more maturity and pitching skills out of him by this point....and to be honest, all I'm seeing are big red flags. We've already seen the weight issue, and the attitude issue....I think we've only scraped the surface of this problem. I'd only trade Felix if I was overwhelmed, but I'd definitely listen to offers on him.

Bedard is a timebomb......he has a poor track record of staying healthy, and a reputation of being kind of a jerk. We all know the 5-1 trade that brought him here was a disaster....and anyone who thinks we have any chance of resigning him is crazy. He has a lot of value to a contender.....trade him if the right deal comes along.

When a team has collapsed like this, a small move here or there isn't going to do anything, its going to take a Florida Marlin type house cleaning to make any headway. Having said that, we need to move anyone on the roster if the right offer comes along......We can not only make this team much better in a handful of moves, but we can also cut a lot of salary, which gives us the ability to plug holes we can't fill through trade with quality FA, instead of plugging holes with guys like Jose Offerman, Rich Aurillia, Scott Spiezio, etc.

" Glittering jewel of colossal ignorance"

That's the funniest thing I've seen on here for a while. Well put.

scrapiron - Your rotation idea is brilliant, and well-thought-out. Even if it's yet another example of the 'rosterbation' mentioned the other day. :) Mr. X is off-base in thinking they'd get pulled after only 2 or 3 innings if they're dealing; these aren't newbies who need to be on pitch counts. Even Mac wouldn't be that stupid, if he were bright enough to try this, which gets to my point...

However, there's no way on God's greenish-grey earth that it would happen, because it requires a level of analysis and creativity that this coaching staff is unable to do. It would also humble Wash and Batista too much. (See my comments from way up above in this thread about players and their pride.)

And by the way, on the 20-of-30, let's-see-how-Mac-does-at-his-one-year-mark notion: pfft. There's no way no how this team is capable of playing .667 ball for the next month. I would bet my next 2 paychecks on that.

Because, according to my handy-dandy Spreadsheet of Doom(tm):

As of today, they're 18 and 30, with 47 games before the ASB and 114 left in the season. Their longest winning streak has been 3 games. Their longest losing streaks, a streak of 5 and a streak of 4 (possibly another streak of 4 today if it goes like I think it will).

To be .500 for the season, they need 63 wins, i.e. to play at a rate of .553 from here to end of season.
To get to the 88-92 win range, they'd need to play between .614 and .649 ball from here to end of season.
To be at .500 by the ASB, they'd need to play .638 ball from here to mid-July, i.e. get 30 wins in the next 47 games.

And, the most depressing numbers of all:

Playing .500 ball from here to the rest of the season, would have them end with a record of 75 and 87.
Playing .385 ball from here to the end of the season gets them 100 losses.

Either of those last 2 seem more and more likely.

Chris from Bothell,

Thank you for bestowing that lovely spreadsheet of doom upon us. In all seriousness though, you prety much hit the nail on the head. There is NO way this team will even play .500 the rest of the way, not the way they are playing now, and they surely won't do it with McLaren as manager. I think the players have quit on him, and I think to an extent he has quit on his team. Not a good combination. I haven't actually watched a game in almost a week. I can't stomach it anymore. Still a fan, follow the team, and the stats and all that, but very hard to watch on a nightly basis.

Rather telling is the odd move a few weeks ago of moving Riggleman from bench coach to 1st base coach when Perlazzo had his knee problems. If Mac had faith in, and wanted Jim, as bench coach, would he have had him moved to the bases just because he needed someone to fill in? No manager would have done such a thing!

Think that Riggleman would make a "terrible" interim manager, if you wish. But, one thing is pretty certain. This team would be managed a lot differently when, and if, Jim takes over, The clubhouse wouldn't be the Hotel Mariners, anymore.

Bavasi believes in a disciplibed clubhouse. That's why he wanted the infamous Terry Collins as the manager before Hargrove was hired. It's also why Riggleman is here.

This team appears to have entered an alternate baseball universe where anything and everything that can go possibly go wrong...does! I mean, really. When is the last time you watched an entire pitching staff give up a bazillion runs right after watching almost an entire lineup go cold for over eight straight weeks? It's so sad, painful and numbing to see this team discover different ways to lose games, I can hardly continue to watch.

It's difficult to ponder this team. I like Bill Bavasi. I think he's a nice guy. It's puzzling to me that a formerly-decent-hitting team can tank so badly that it now appears to be effecting a formerly-decent pitching staff. Firing Bavasi will not make cold hitters hot.

I also like John McClaren, but with each painful interview it is becoming very obvious that he really doesn't know how to manage a team through difficult periods such as this. His unease and puzzled expressions betray him.

The offense is still stagnant, but smarter folks than I (and Mr. X, apparently) have concluded that lineup changes don't really matter. Sexson and Vidro have to start hitting or get benched or shipped out.

What next? I fully expect a black cloud to form over Safeco Field upon their return next week, requiring that the roof be permenently extended. I can imagine Jeff Renner reporting, "Locally, the weather will be sunny and mild, except of course for the area surrounding 1st Avenue South and South Atlantic, where showers continue to persist! Back to you, Jean and Don!"

Mr. X,

While I really respect your baseball opinions, I am really distressed that you feel the need to insult people in such strong terms. Have I misjudged you?

where is my sweet lovable Mr. X?

"Yes folks, it's that time of year again. That time when the proverbial fork has been put in the Mariners before June. That wonderous time when Dave Niehaus stops calling the action and instead, to keep us entertained, starts telling amusing anecdotes throughout the entire inning and game."
Yeeeeehaaaaaaa! Good one. That's all we can do at this point, laugh about it. I love it when Niehaus gets the names of the players mixed up. Too many rally fries soaked in vodka I guess

Essentially going with a 4 man bullpen is neither intelligent, nor well thought out. If you're married to the idea of having Batista and Wasburn come in as the designated relievers for Morrow and RRS, then it takes away your flexibility in the pen. Putz won't be coming in when those two options are used up for the week. Dickey is more of a long reliever/spot starter. So what do you have? "Doyle List" stints in the very near future for Green, Lowe, and Rhodes. That's a lot of work for those three, and two of them have had major surgery recently.

Nintendo offered anew product this baseball season titled Wii Suck

Question:

I haven't heard much of anything about a joker (insert pun here) in the clubhouse. With the amount of losses piling up the M's clubhouse, I imagine, has got to be a miserable place to be. Isn't there someone on this team that can bring some levity to the joyless vacuum that is the Mariner locker room?

I truly think to even begin to turn this thing around (which BTW i think can still be done. I know I'm crazy) somebody, ANYBODY needs to liven up that clubhouse. One of the players needs to do some wacky, zaney crap to get these guys laughing and building some comraderie.

I know every one is calling for the heads of Mac & BB, but IMHO this is a player problem. Mac may make a mistake a game, but is it one that costs the team a victory? Highly doubtful. BB may not have put the best team on the field. Fine. Aknowledged. Can he field routine grounders for them? Nope. The only problem I see Mac & Bavasi being responsible for is getting the guys motivated. That IS managements job along with keeping guys focused.

Somebody needs to come into the locker room wearing a friggin' clown outfit (red nose and all) and just start putting down whoopie cushions and letting off stink bombs (again insert pun here).

I'm telling ya'll. The players are way to tense and stressed. Relax and have fun. You will see the wins start to add up.

Suggested Mariner Moves:

-Move Batista and Washburn to the pen.
-Have Morrow and Ryan Rowland Smith start.
-Let Burke catch three games a week.
-Move Ichiro down in the order, like in the 3 or 4 spot.
-Trade Sexson for Delgado.

Who's with me?

X - There'd be more pen flexibility if Mac went with who was rested and rode them a bit longer in a given game, instead of sticking to lefty-righty matchup nonsense and pulling perfectly good people after one inning or one pitch. But if you absolutely need more pen flexibility, DFA Cairo and you have another spot right there...

Suggested Mariner Moves:

-Move Batista and Washburn to the pen.
-Have Morrow and Ryan Rowland Smith start.
-Let Burke catch three games a week.
-Move Ichiro down in the order, like in the 3 or 4 spot.
-Trade Sexson for Delgado.

Who's with me?

Not me - that is retarded. Forget moving around, start selling

Sure thing, Chris. Would that be the first 3-man bench in the history of baseball? I know Mac doesn't use it much, but come on.