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Geoff Baker covers the Mariners for The Seattle Times. He provides daily coverage of the team throughout spring training, and during the season.

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April 13, 2008 11:56 AM

Bedard scratched, Beltre also hurting

Posted by Larry Stone

I started to hear rumblings when I got to the ballpark today that Bedard's hip was hurting again. Sure enough, he was scratched from his start for the second Sunday in a row, this time replaced by Cha Seung Baek. The official diagnosis is "inflammation in his left hip,'' and while the Mariners are saying they believe it's not major, it's got to be very, very worrisome to all concerned.

Here's what McLaren told us: "We don't think it's a serious thing, but we don't want it to become something serious.''

It turns out that Bedard, who threw 107 pitches in a win over Tampa Bay on Tuesday, began to be bothered by his hip again on Friday. He had been scratched from last Sunday's start against Baltimore with the same problem. The Mariners began treating the inflammation on Friday and it got better, but he was still feeling discomfort today so they decided to go the safe route and scratch him. Bedard will throw a bullpen session tomorrow and they'll re-evaluate.

As if that's not enough bad enough, Adrian Beltre is out of the lineup today with tightness in right hamstring. Miguel Cairo is getting the start.at third. That's another injury they don't believe is serious, but hamstrings can be touchy, as we all know. He'll be re-evaluated tomorrow also.

The one good injury news was that J.J. Putz threw off a mound for six minutes and felt great. But the high from winning the first two games against the Angels has been tempered considerably by the news that Bedard is hurting again.

Today's lineup (check out that Morse-Cairo-Burke trifecta)

ANGELS

Figgins 5

Matthews 8

Guerrero 9

Anderson 7

Kendrick 4

Kotchman 3

Rivera DH

Mathis 2

Aybar 6

Saunders 1

MARINERS

Ichiro 8

Lopez 4

Ibanez 7

Sexson 3

Vidro DH

Morse 9

Cairo 5

Burke 2

Betancourt 6

Baek 1

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Posted by Frankie

12:13 PM, Apr 13, 2008

Thanks for the update. I knew we couldn't end up going the WHOLE weekend without something bad happening.

Posted by oregongal

12:13 PM, Apr 13, 2008

My, how quickly my optimism for a game can fade.

Posted by oregongal

12:17 PM, Apr 13, 2008

That changes Geoff's headline to "Baek needs to be an ace today." Doesn't sound so good when you substitute the #6 starter.

Posted by tallahassee-mariner's fan

12:20 PM, Apr 13, 2008

truly bad news. bedard is no felix, thats for sure, and right now he doesn't even appear to be a silva.

if its any consolation, while sherill owned us in baltimore and overall continues to be a huge stud, adam jones is not exactly on the all star track, hitting only .235 with 0 HR's.

Posted by thewyrm

12:25 PM, Apr 13, 2008

It isn't any consolation, it was still a terrible trade.

Posted by Nat

12:25 PM, Apr 13, 2008

Truly disappointing, was really looking forward to seeing him today - but hopefully he takes whatever time he needs to come back with his hip in great shape, so he can be durable for the rest of the season.


Wonder if they considered Dickey for the spot start today?

Posted by Pokenour

12:26 PM, Apr 13, 2008


As pointed out, Bedard has not had a great history against the Angels, might there be something else afoot beside the presumed injury. Last week, I was somewhat skeptical of Bedard's hip injury due to the fact he is a very private person who dislikes attention and he was in Baltimore his old site of employment. While he did not look his best in Tampa, he did pitch with reasonable effectiveness, just not to the standard of an ace.

Point is might he be well but just stepping aside so that Bavasi can showcase Baek for some trade interest. Baek is out of options but he is taking up a roster spot needed for relievers, particularly with the Bavasi - McLaren plan to carry only six relief pitchers. As it stands, the Ms are only carrying five relievers as it seems to me that Baek is not a reliever. At any rate, Baek has not pitched badly when called upon, his problem has always been more of an injury matter. If he can go out today and subdue the Angels, then surely Bavasi's efforts to trade him and better construct this bullpen will be enhanced. Perhaps then Bedard is just taking a rest while Bavasi is showcasing Baek for trade possibilities. Such would be a most favorable outcome, giving us all peace of mind regarding Bedard. Now why not package Baek with some dead wood, such as Turbo or Wilkerson - even if you have to pay the bulk of their mis-begotten salaries - or even Morse, to make the necessary improvements in the outfield and at DH with Ibanez.

Posted by thewyrm

12:29 PM, Apr 13, 2008

If that is actually the case, which I highly doubt, then Mac and Bavasi would deserve to be fired. You cannot gift wrap a game to our arch-rivals. Period. That is what not starting our #1 (snicker) is.

Posted by sfmsfan

12:36 PM, Apr 13, 2008

Baek will pitch well and get the win, increase his trade value and we'll have Dickey up here within 10 days. Maybe I'm still high of the last two nights, but no point being pessimistic when we have the opportunity to sweep the Angels.

Posted by DustininCorvallis

12:38 PM, Apr 13, 2008

Hey, at least Torii Hunter isn't in the lineup today!

Signed,

Mr. Optimist

Posted by Pokenour

12:39 PM, Apr 13, 2008


-thewym

General Managers such a as Bavasi and managers such as McLaren plays these kind of games all the time, we just seldom notice them because there is so much spin and misdirection. Bedard my have some nagging hip trouble, but probably it is not too serious as he would not have started in Tampa if such were the case. Nonetheless, he has had something of a poor history against the Angels, so why not given him a break against these guys whom he has struggled with in the past. Certainly, Bavasi must be concerned with the bullpen having only five effective relievers, so that there is some urgency to trade Baek as soon as possible. With Bedard have a poor history against the Angels why not substitute Baek and give him a chance to shine so that you can trade him.

Posted by scottM

12:41 PM, Apr 13, 2008

I don't buy into those ulterior motives on the Bedard scratch, Pokenour. Actually, this is exactly why the Mariners rightfully kept Baek on the big squad––insurance. He's not much of a reliever, but he looked solid last year spelling Felix. With Batista's back and now Bedard's hip, having Cha Seung Baek is making more sense than ever.

I can see bringing one more pitcher into the bullpen and releasing one of the bench position players, but the Baek logic is solid. Here's to hoping that Cha Seung Baek holds his own today. I think the idea of trading him at this juncture would be foolish. If he puts the M's in a position to win games when he starts, then keeping him makes total sense. So does being cautious with Bedard's (and JJ's) injury. It's a very long season. The M's don't want to lose the war by trying to win a few battles in April.

Posted by thewyrm

12:43 PM, Apr 13, 2008

Sooner or later our ace* is gonna have to beat the Angels.


* Luckily King Felix is our real ace and we know he can.

Posted by Jack

12:45 PM, Apr 13, 2008

You can't really lean on "that's why they play the games" when the guy we traded the farm for isn't, um, playing the games.

Posted by Adam

12:49 PM, Apr 13, 2008

Lance - Silva has not sucked. He's pitched pretty well, although I think his second and third starts (15 IP, 20 H, 1 BB, 5K, 7R) are much more indicative of his abilities than his first.


Look, he's not an ace. He's a league-average pitcher. He doesn't suck, and I shouldn't have said so. I did because he was nowhere near the contract he signed, especially when guys like Towers, Lohse, and Baek are signed for cheap.

He's not going to miss many bats, so we had better play good defense behind him. And you know that I am skeptical of our defense.

So while I'll tip my cap to Silva, I don't expect him to keep this up.

Posted by Pokenour

12:50 PM, Apr 13, 2008

For several years I have watched Baek closely and I have liked most of what I have seen of him, as suggested he pitched well replacing Felix last year and he made other effective starts during the previous year. But in Tacoma, the Ms have other more effective insurance options than Baek. Particularly there is Dickey who can both relief and spot start. Other young pitchers - Fierabend and Rohrbaugh - are off to good starts and look to have a future with the Ms. Then there is Morrow who should be groomed to start rather than continue as a reliever. So while Bedard's hip may be bothering him somewhat, his scratch may be simply a way to rest him against the injury and give him so relief from his difficulties when facing the Angels, while showcasing Baek for trade purposes. With Dickey a more flexible and no less effective option in Tacoma, it make poor sense to have Baek take up a roster spot on an already thin bullpen. Get something for him and move on.

Posted by Frankie

12:51 PM, Apr 13, 2008

I really hate when people say "We traded the farm for Bedard". That is not true.

The core of our farm consists of Jeff Clement, Wladimir Balentien, Phillippe Aumont, and other names. Did we give them up? No we didnt.

The only person that we traded who I'm missing right now is Sherrill, because he is the only one that was actually proven in the majors. Adam Jones is playing every day and he's doing just as good as Wilkerson right now. The 3 pitching prospects we gave away were not the core of our farm system.

So please stop saying that we gave up the farm for Bedard. We didn't do that in the least.

Posted by Lance

12:53 PM, Apr 13, 2008

Too bad for Baek. It's going to be tough for a guy who is a control pitcher to face this lineup having not pitched at all for quite awhile. Baek needs to be in some sort of rythmn to be effective. Now, he'll have to come in cold.

Better get Rowland-Smith up in the bullpen early. This game could get away pretty quickly. They'd better have their hitting shoes on against Saunders to compensate.

As I've said before, like when Gil Meche was with the M's, when it comes to Bedard there's always something with this guy.

Posted by Michael

12:54 PM, Apr 13, 2008

If they need to bring up another pitcher, Cairo needs to go. Isn't he and Bloomquist pretty much the same type of player?

Posted by Scott

12:57 PM, Apr 13, 2008

The games that Bedard has missed this season are early season games and hopefully will have no impact on what happens later. But, is this what we're going to be dealing with all season with Bedard? The constant, "Will he start, or won't he?" It's tough to question the guy's toughness, because I haven't seen him pitch much, but I'd hope that if we were in August or September, he'd pitch through the pain against our arch rival.

I know it's another sport, but I seem to remember Gary Payton playing almost an entire season with a stress fracture in his foot...

Posted by Jack

1:01 PM, Apr 13, 2008

Frankie -

it's an expression dude. has absolutely nothing to do with the mariners farm system.

Posted by Faceplant

1:06 PM, Apr 13, 2008

"The 3 pitching prospects we gave away were not the core of our farm system."


Uh, no, you are just wrong. Adam Jones was easily the Mariners best prospect and Tony Butler and Chris Tillman were both rated among the top prospects in the Mariners system. Chris Tillman in particular was rated the third best prospect in the system by Baseball America.

Wlad Balentien is an interesting prospect, but there are a lot of people in baseball that aren't nearly as high on him as M's fans are. I don't necessarily agree with them, but that the reality.

Beyond Balentien and Clement the M's aren't going to get much help from the farm for at least the next few years.

Posted by Pokenour

1:07 PM, Apr 13, 2008


Ulterior Motives

If you want to see my take on ulterior motives in the Seattle Sports scene, go to the go the to current Sonics blog concerning Gorton blasts Gregoire, Bennett. There two significant posts that I made near the end of that blog, and think there are some significant ulterior motives at work in the Seattle sports scene - Have a look.

Posted by Lance

1:08 PM, Apr 13, 2008

"Adam Jones is playing every day and he's doing just as good as Wilkerson right now." --- Frankie

Wouldn't that be "just as bad"?

Even so, AJ, although now setting things aflame in Baltimore, is off to a much better start then Wilkerson. Brad's been more than bad. He's been awful.

Further, AJ's got a great future and it's going to manifest itself pretty quickly.

Wilkerson has no future, at all. .

Still, I agree with your overall thought. We did not give up the farm for Bedard. However, we did give up a future All-Star outfielder, our best starting pitching prospect, and the best situational left-handed pitcher in the American League. Not to mention our best setup prospect, as well.

Posted by Scott

1:08 PM, Apr 13, 2008

Frankie,

So trading our number 1 prospect(Adam Jones) and our number 1 pitching prospect(Chris Tillman) who was named our minor league pitcher of the year isn't the "core of our system"? Wow! That works out for us, I mean I thought we traded a couple of pretty good prospects and a left handed setup man that would have been helpful this season.

I like Bedard, but the early returns are not so good.

Posted by joe

1:13 PM, Apr 13, 2008

I have a conspiracy theory too (said in a 5th graders voice, hand raised)
.
What IF Baek is auditioning for the ANGELS? They have a fulll house in their OF with room to move. What IF the Mariners trade Baek to the Halos for say....Willits? or Matthews? or even Anderson?
.
We get an OF upgrade, move Rauuuuul to 1B/DH send Vidro to the bench....
.
would Billy B even dare make a trade with a rival?
.
ok silly idea, but it is fun to dream up trades

Posted by Lance

1:13 PM, Apr 13, 2008

I meant, of course, not setting. Not, now setting. Typo.

Posted by Squatch

1:17 PM, Apr 13, 2008

Think Ichiro will FINALLY steal a bag or two today?
It don't look like he's even gonna reach 20 SBs at this pace!

Posted by Pokenour

1:18 PM, Apr 13, 2008

Joe -

You may well have a point, as Bavasi has a history with the Angels and we could sure use a decent outfielder in right.

Also please forgive my typos and word omissions that sometime come through in my posts.

Posted by Lance

1:22 PM, Apr 13, 2008

"would Billy B even dare make a trade with a rival?" --- Joe

No, Joe, he would not. Neither would Reaggins. Which means your conspiracuy theory is full of holes. If you're going to theorize conspiracies couldn't you put a little intelligence into it?

And, why trade for GMJ and the 4 yrs/$40 mil. left on that idiotic contract?

Posted by joe

1:24 PM, Apr 13, 2008

LANCE: did you even read the last line of my post??
before you get all uppity on your high horse and begin insulting people, maybe you should read the whole post! It was a joke! What a dick

Posted by Pokenour

1:27 PM, Apr 13, 2008


Given the access to MLB, Baek's debut is available to virtually any potential trade partner, so it does not have to be one with the Angels. However, if he does well against the Angels lineup, then his trade value would appear to be considerable.

Let's avoid disparaging judgments - Lance.

Posted by Bum Knee McGee

1:41 PM, Apr 13, 2008

Bedard was supposed to be this Big Dog with all kinds of Bite, but right now he's looking about as fragile as a poodle.

Posted by No fan of FO

1:50 PM, Apr 13, 2008

It isn't a stretch to begin to wonder if Bavasi wasn't had in this trade, and Baltimore got away with a stinky deal. Any history of this same hip problem with Bedard in the past?

Posted by mike

2:42 PM, Apr 13, 2008

allright o'flarty in there the angels will win!!!! bet on the angels today with baek pitching.

Posted by mike

2:44 PM, Apr 13, 2008

if i knew o'flarty was pitching also i would have bet the house along withmy kids.

Posted by Faceplant

2:59 PM, Apr 13, 2008

"However, if he does well against the Angels lineup, then his trade value would appear to be considerable"

One start does not increase or decrease trade value the way people think it does. If a scout thinks you suck, one good start isn't going to change his mind. The whole idea of "showcasing" is pretty ridiculous. It really has no affect on someones trade value.

Plus the Angels lineup isn't that great.


"allright o'flarty in there the angels will win!!!!"

That inning was not O'Fleherty fault. It would be still be two to nothing if Morse didn't make such a horrendous read in that ball. And It may be one to nothing if Morse hadn't have tried to sell the catch on the ball that he trapped. It isn't really Morse's fault, he's learning a new position, but wow. Not a great day for him.

Posted by christopher Brown

3:42 PM, Apr 13, 2008

Well, it's 10 to 2, Angels ahead, at the moment. So Beddard is MIA again. I think we out to sue Baltimore for false advertising. Some ace. Maybe ace bandage, but not ace pitcher.

Posted by mike

3:43 PM, Apr 13, 2008

I wish they would start O'flaherty then I could quit my job and bet against him every time just like I did last year when weaver pitched.

Posted by mike

3:57 PM, Apr 13, 2008

NOT O'FLARERTY'S FAULT??????? IS THAT WHY HIS ERA IS 21.60 !!!!!!! 21.60 MUST BE LEADING MLB

Posted by mike

4:01 PM, Apr 13, 2008

if they don't get rid of o'flarerty i know he's either related to mclaren or he's sleeping with mclaren.

Posted by Faceplant

4:56 PM, Apr 13, 2008

"NOT O'FLARERTY'S FAULT??????? IS THAT WHY HIS ERA IS 21.60 !!!!!!! 21.60 MUST BE LEADING MLB"


LOUD NOISES!!!!!!!

Anyway, no, that inning was not Eric O'Flaherty's fault. The rest of his outing was pure crap, but that inning wasn't. It isn't O'Flaherty's fualt that Mike Morse sucks at his position. That inning should have been over with no damage done.

Oh, and by the way, Mike Timlin has the worst ERA in baseball at a cool 54.00.

Brad Hennesy has an ERA of 17.47, CC Sabathia is sitting at 11.57. Latroy Hawkins is at 12.60, Roy Oswalt is sporting an ERA of 9.00, and Jeremy Accardo is sitting at 8.44.

The point? ERA is pretty much useless. Yes, O'Flaherty is pitching like crap. So are C.C. Sabathia, and Roy Oswalt. Nobody is calling for their heads on a platter. To make a sweeping judgement about O'Flaherty based on 10 innings is ridiculous. Every single pitcher, whether it be Jake Peavy, or Eric O'Flaherty is going to go through stretches where they flat out suck.

Posted by mike

5:24 PM, Apr 13, 2008

faceplant nobodys calling for their heads on a platter is because they been pitching for alot of years and they have proven they can pitch. not 1 good year and 1 terrible year. and they haven't cost their team as many losses as o'flat head!!!! he's another bobby ayala

Posted by Faceplant

5:38 PM, Apr 13, 2008

"faceplant nobodys calling for their heads on a platter is because they been pitching for alot of years and they have proven they can pitch. not 1 good year and 1 terrible year. and they haven't cost their team as many losses as o'flat head!!!! he's another bobby ayala"

So ten innings of suck, means that O'Flaherty is Bobby Ayala, while when Sabathia, or Peavy, or timlin completely blows they are given a free pass. Eric O'Flaherty isn't a rookie.


Trust me on this one. His xFIP is at 5.96. Not good, but certainly not anywhere near 21.60. His strand rate is only 39.7%, and his HR/FB ratio is a ridiculous 33.6%. Those rates are both completely unsustainable, and will regress back to around the ML average. Eric O'Flaherty has been bad, but not nearly as bad as you think he's been.

You need to understand that pitchers do not get hitters out by themselves all the time.

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