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Geoff Baker covers the Mariners for The Seattle Times. He provides daily coverage of the team throughout spring training, and during the season.

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March 23, 2008 9:49 AM

Shields out, Sexson has bursitis

Posted by Geoff Baker

UPDATE (10:52 a.m.): Apparently, the M's just figured out that Brandon Morrow's minor league game won't be until 1 p.m. That means I'm staying put here. The Angels game will have to wait. For Andrew in the comments thread, I think Reed Johnson would be an excellent pickup for the M's. Can do all the little things right, like bunt, steal bases, use a takeout slide. Had a .390 OBP out of the leadoff spot in the order in 2006. Oh yeah, can also hit and plays good defense. Not much to dislike. Does get hurt from diving after balls and stuff. But would be a great bench addition and could start two or three days a week if needed. To keep using the same cliche, he plays the game the right way.

Brandon Morrow will pitch in a minor league game in about 40 minutes, along with Carlos Silva. The game will take place a few hundred yards from our press location, so I'll be there. The M's are doing this so that the Angels won't get an advance preview of the two when the teams meet this afternoon in Tempe, Ariz. Yes, I'll be at that game as well.

In the anything-you-can-do, we-can-do-worse department, the Angels have shut down set-up man Scot Shields. He might not be ready to start the year. If so, that's right up there with Morrow, or worse.

Lots of panic going on in the comments thread of our last post. Nothing like a little negativity to get this blog hopping. Here's some more for you: Richie Sexson has bursitis in his shoulder and received an injection to help it this morning.

The team says it's nothing serious, that he'll play tomorrow. They say he got it while sleeping.

I won't dispute that. But I will relate an anecdote from my own, quite undistinguished athletic career. As a junior college football player in 1987, I had bursitis in both shoulders and when I slept on either side at night, my arm would be numb and temporarily paralyzed when I woke up in the morning. Now, technically it was sleeping on the arm that caused my shoulders' fluid-filled bursa sacs to become that inflamed, where it became so bad that I couldn't feel my arm. That's the part that happened when I slept. During the daytime, though, both shoulders hurt like you wouldn't believe. I took painkillers and all types of stuff. But when you're getting pounded daily, or actually just trying to use the shoulders, they keep hurting.

What causes bursitis? I was told it was the constant pounding on my shoulders that got it going. Now, how this relates to Sexson is anyone's guess. He's obviously not getting his shoulders pounded on like a football player would. But swinging a bat and throwing a baseball (it's his right shoulder) does put strain on the shoulder area. What's the point of all this?

To tell you that while the M's say Sexson's bursitis is nothing serious, I'm sure they're hoping this really is just a minor, sleep-caused problem and not something borne out of his daily baseball activity. If so, Sexson could be in for a long and painful season. Bursitis isn't the end of the world. But it's a nagging pain in the butt. Well, OK, the shoulder. And that's the last thing Sexson needs. We saw how he did last season when hampered by other nagging pains.

OK, on to other stuff...

I think some of you are overstating your case when it comes to the team's backups. This ballclub will not sink or swim based on whether it's Mike Morse, Greg Norton or Charlton Jimerson rounding out the bench. The M's rarely use their bench. AL teams use it less frequently than NL squads and the M's use it less than just about any other AL squad. Morse, as I said earlier in the week, will not be a .500 hitter when the games count. He does look like a very solid hitter this spring, though. If it were my team, I'd be leaning towards keeping him over a speedster like Jimerson. That's because the Mariners already have Willie Bloomquist and Miguel Cairo for those roles. If Jimerson is better than those other two at speed -- and that makes you want to keep him over Morse -- then the M's have to ask themselves why Bloomquist and Cairo are on the team.

Yes, the roster construction is looking a little questionable. Nothing new in that department. Was going on long before I showed up.

But will Morse make or break this team? No, he will not.

The way this team plays the game will help make or break it. We talked about this yesterday and one of you astutely pointed out a story out of Detroit that the Tigers are going through roughly the same thing right now. I agree that this problem tends to creep up on a lot of teams, especially with the real season so close to starting. Spring training is a drag. But all that said, I don't beleive this Mariners team is that much better than the Angels at this stage that it can afford to go stumbling into April.

When I picked the M's to win the division last week, there were some specific reasons. But if the M's trip over themselves in April and stumble to a so-so .500 record against some of the league's weaker teams, they will be behind the eight-ball going forward.

So, in my book, that's a reason to be concerned over these late-spring doldums. This team does have to come charging out of the gate to seize on opportunities the Angels have left out there with their pitching injuries.

Mariners manager John McLaren plans to take two of his rehabbing pitchers, Chris Reitsma and Mark Lowe, and test them out on back-to-back days (over multiple innings) later this week. Best of the two will likely make the club heading into the regular season.

ADDITIONAL NOTES (12:19 p.m.): This one is for AKMariners Fan in the comments thread. In looking back at Reed Johnson's last three seasons (which are the only ones we should look at when it comes to judging a player present-day) which of the numbers below gives you the best sample size?

398 AB
461 AB
275 AB

If you guessed 461, go to the head of the class. So, in a year he logged 461 at-bats, Johnson put up a .390 OBP and an .869 OPS.

It's true those numbers declined to .305 and .625 last year. But why? Let's see, that's the year Johnson had only 275 at-bats. Hmmm. Maybe he was hurt? Guess what? Seven games into the season, Johnson developed a herniated disc problem in his back. Went on the DL and was never the same after. Seems he's gotten all of that straightened out and is now healthy again. So, why are the Blue Jays going with Shannon Stewart instead of Johnson? Same reason behind most of their moves. Money. Johnson was set to earn more than double what Stewart will pull in. Not every team is run like the M's. The Blue Jays, even with a higher payroll, do tend to penny-pinch where they can.

Even if you don't believe Johnson is an .869 OPS guy, he was at .332 OBP and .744 OPS three seasons ago, with 398 at-bats in a healthy year. Johnson was a part-timer for much of that year before slipping into more regular duty. Not fantastic numbers, but good enough for a backup outfielder who plays very good defense.

If you want to go to previous seasons before that to find worse-off Johnson numbers, you can. But why? What relevance could his first and second full seasons in the majors have to present-day? In his most recent, healthy season, with more than 450 at-bats, he had an .869 OPS. Mike Morse hasn't done that in the majors yet. Morse's "career OBP of .365" was not accomplished against major league pitching (well, OK, it was, but not as a full-time player. As a September call-up, but he's facing Class AAA pitchers half the time in those cases). Bottom line? One guy is a five-year major leaguer, the other is still trying to crack a major league lineup at age 26. Please. Also, for lefty-righty splits, you could do far worse than Johnson.

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Posted by Chris from Bothell

10:31 AM, Mar 23, 2008

Hey, y'know, the Bonds perjury case just got put on hold for 3 months. Which means he likely won't go to trial until 2009. Pity Howard Lincoln said an unequivical "no, no, no, no" to bringing him along. :)

I keed, I keed. Happy bunnies-and-chocolate day. Perhaps we can take up a collection to send leftover Easter candy to the Ms, so that the sugar high will wake them up and get them to play right.

Posted by Andrew

10:38 AM, Mar 23, 2008

Reed Johnson was officially released by the Blue Jays today. How about we muddy up the OF picture even further and scoop him up off waivers!

He's a right-handed hitter that can play every outfield position. You know about this guy Baker -- what do you say?

Posted by AKMarinersFan

10:43 AM, Mar 23, 2008

Geoff - There is not one player on this team that "makes or breaks it" including Bedard and Felix. Your argument is foolish. You defend poor decions regarding bench selections by stating that the Mariners (foolishly) underutilizes the bench therefore it doesn't matter who the Mariners select. Great argument there...

My question for you is why is Vidro a better pick for DH than Morse. Try not use "veteran" or "professional hitter" in your response.

Please understand that the "overreaction" or "negativity" that we express is in part due to the past poor decision making shown by the M's Management.

Posted by Adam

10:44 AM, Mar 23, 2008

Nice to see the Angels coming back down to earth. I think there is something to Shields' getting shut down. He had a lot of trouble last year. This certainly makes things more interesting.

Couldn't agree more about the bench, Geoff. It's really not a huge deal whether Morse or Jimerson or Reed make the team.

They simply are not the potential impact players that Wlad Balentien and Jeff Clement are, so until those two are ready for the show, this debate is really meaningless.

One more thing: when do we start to worry about Bedard? I'm not one to care about spring training (I couldn't tell you our record if you put a gun to my head), but I refuse to believe we can chalk up Bedard's spring to the Arizona air. It would behoove everyone to have him throw well in his final tuneups, just to keep the press of his back.

He's under a bunch of pressure this year, and if he doesn't meet expectations, I could see him deciding not to re-sign. As introverted as he is, in this situation, early struggles could bode poorly for him and the team.

Posted by AKMarinersFan

10:47 AM, Mar 23, 2008

"..then the M's have to ask themselves why Bloomquist and Cairo are on the team."

Yeah why?

Maybe they have some compromising photo's of Bavasi and the Moose?

Posted by Snowbound

10:54 AM, Mar 23, 2008

The question shouldn't be why is Vidro a better option at DH, but why would Morse be a better option.

Morse for his career
.261 .319 .408 (727 Ops) over 2000 minor league at-bats)

Sure its easy to look at his 291 at-bats in the majors and see the .302 .365 .399 764, but that's still a lower OPS then what Vidro put up last year.

Morse is not nearly as good of a hitter as his reputation has given him because of some hot streaks on his callup.

Posted by AKMarinersFan

10:59 AM, Mar 23, 2008

Because Morse is on the upside of his carrear and Vidro is on the downside of his?

Morse is a guy who was late in maturing. When he first came up with M's he was 6-2 now he is 6-5. That late growth spurt has to effect his swing and overall performance.

You really think that given a chance to play everyday that Morse would not outperform Vidro?

Posted by Swung On And Belted

11:04 AM, Mar 23, 2008

Part of his inconsistent numbers surely are a result of being moved around so much. Give the man a chance. He's been moved around more than a U-HAUL truck. Morse has a ton of potential, and what more does he have to do to show it? Bat 1.000?

Posted by Bum Knee McGee

11:10 AM, Mar 23, 2008

If Sexson goes down Morse can play 1B.

Posted by Snowbound

11:10 AM, Mar 23, 2008

Yes I do believe Morse would be worse then Vidro in an everday role... he's frankly nothing more then a fringe backup player ...

When the M's acquired Morse he was 6'5".. so this sudden growth spurt doesn't really ring true to me.

Here's a link to a 2004 article talking about the trade that states Morse was 6'5".

Posted by ricofoy

11:11 AM, Mar 23, 2008

No injury Sexson gets surprises me. Hell, he was the guy who strained his neck putting his hat on. When he's 60 he's going to look like Quasimodo.

Posted by AKMarinersFan

11:14 AM, Mar 23, 2008

Snowbound - I have seem other information that has indicated he has a late growth spurt. I appologize if I am wrong. He sure seems a lot bigger than what I remember his as a SS in 2005.

Of course Vidro has also grown. In Montreal he was listed at 180. I think he is closer to 250 now.

Posted by AKMarinersFan

11:17 AM, Mar 23, 2008

Every athlete who throws a ball has bursitus at some point in their carear. Take a cortisone big deal.

Bursitus is not the reason for Sexson's slow bat.

Posted by Quinault

11:18 AM, Mar 23, 2008

If Richie's shoulder is kaput -then we need to have Raul at 1B along with Mike Morse taking more infield practice in these last days before the bell rings. If thje Mariners are so worried about the bench/depth with the overpayment of fa, then they cannot worry about the people that they are about to lose - including Baek. I almost want to say that the fo is again on the hot seat not to lose these assets - with trades as the only option left. We have to remember that Willie Bloomquist is not Stan Javier. He is a nice occasional fill in but with him the bench is undermanned.

Posted by scottM

11:24 AM, Mar 23, 2008

I love the distortion in this blog. GEOFF was trying to give a sense of magnitude for the impact of who we choose to be bench position players, and he's called foolish.

I don't know where Frankie is, and I know many here don't subscribe to the idea of Team Chemistry, but as a charter member of the ExtendJoseGuillen Society, I, too, am worried about the low-key vibe of this team.

Can JJ Putz stir the embers of the entire team from the bullpen? Who, of the everyday players, will step up and kick butt, if necessary. It's hard to see Ichiro, Ibanez, Yuni, Lopez, Sexson, being that kind of leader with their low key personalities. Beltre and Johjima could possibly step into that role of clubhouse leader, but it's not their natural tendency. I don't know enough about Wilkerson to know if he is a fireplug-type of leader.

And then there is the question of McLaren's ability to motivate a team that got rid of last year's most natural leader.

Posted by Al

11:33 AM, Mar 23, 2008

Does anyone know if the bursitis Sexson is experiencing is in the same shoulder Sexson had surgically repaired? I can't find which shoulder he had surgically repaired.

Posted by Merrill

11:34 AM, Mar 23, 2008

AK, I think you need to read a little more carefully. Geoff wasn't defending anything. He just said it ain't all that important. Then he went on to say that there are and have been some questionable decisions.

Here is the relevant quote:

If Jimerson is better than those other two at speed -- and that makes you want to keep him over Morse -- then the M's have to ask themselves why Bloomquist and Cairo are on the team.

Yes, the roster cojnstruction is looking a little questionable. Nothing new in that department. Was going on long before I showed up.

But will Morse make or break this team? No, he will not.

Read it again. Take a deep breath. Count to 100. Hold it!

If you're still conscious, please tell me how that is "defending" the M's decisions. Use Geoff's quotes.

Posted by Merrill

11:40 AM, Mar 23, 2008

And, sorry, will respond if necessary some time tomorrow. It's 1:38 am here and I've got to get up and go to work in the morning (had to stay up late to see Chelsea kick some Arsenal).

'Nite, all. Try to be nice, now.

Posted by AKMarinersFan

11:57 AM, Mar 23, 2008

Merrill - Like I said before no one player makes or breaks the team. But several poor player personnel decisions collectively will definately have a major impact on this team. Playing inferior players over Morse is just one of those poor decisions. Geoff is wrong by defending a decision regarding Morse by isolating it from the other poor decisions.

Posted by AKMarinersFan

12:08 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Ah Geoff, do you never tire of picking and choosing the stats that support your view while ignoring everything else?

Reed Johnson OBP (which year is not like the others?)

2003 .353
2004 .320
2005 .332
2006 .390
2007 ..305
Career Avg .342 (BTW Morse's career OBP .365))

This teem does not need Reed Johnson.

Posted by shortbus

12:30 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Sexson being less that 100% is a no-go for this team. The whole offseason strategy is essentially predicated on Sexson being Comeback Player of the Year. If he doesn't hit about 35 home runs this year we're sunk. We have no other option in the lineup now that Broussard is gone.

Posted by Donovan

12:37 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Judging from the M's play and the increasingly shrill posts on this blog, ST is definitely about two weeks too long. The Morse debate is silly. I think he should and probably will make the bench, but he's a long way from being good enough to play every day. He's a decent contact hitter and a mediocre fielder at any position. End of story. Calling him a starter is like calling "Willie Ballgame" a starter - silly.

Geoff correctly cites the longstanding M's tradition/reputation of under-utilizing their bench, even by AL standards. I think this started with Lou, because his benches were typically awful. Hargrove solidified it because he's just so conservative by nature. But those guys are long gone. We have no idea how Mac will use his bench - none. Why people assume that Mac's style will be Grover-like or think they know everything there is to know about his management style after his replacement time last year is beyond me. One could construe his comments about bench construction to mean that he intends to actually play them this year, and therefore wants fielders, not just bats and legs. Cairo and Bloomquist are versatile, experienced fielders. Norton would seem to be the ideal PH, a difficult role which you definitely don't want to hand to someone untested. If Morse was even a decent fielder, then he'd be a lock, but he's not. That's the question mark on him, not his rookie status.

I also think this whole veteran bias conspiracy theory is getting tiresome. The truth is that Reed, Morse, Jimerson, and even Baek are all very ordinary players, which is why they have never stuck in the majors. It is very rare for a guy to suddenly blossom into a star after showing so little for so long. Like I said, I'd take Morse over the other OF contenders, but he isn't likely to make much difference either way. I'd say try to cash in on his good ST and trade him, but it's hard to bargain tough with a guy out of options. As soon as you offer him, the other team knows they can probably get him after he's waived.

Posted by AKMarinersFan

12:53 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Typically the discussion of who the bench should be has considered three possibilities
1. Pitch Hitting - which the Mariners don't often do so in that context it is not very important
2. Defensive substitution - I think we all agree having late inning defensive substitutions is vital to this team
3. Pitch Running - Again due to the slowfootedness of several of the players this could be important. Although I think Wilie's days of being a great base stealer are over (he stole 7 bases last year and was thrown out 5 times)

But there is a fourth consideration - injury replacements. The Mariners have been very lucky the last few years with not having a lot of major injuries. But if one of the starters goes down for an extended period of time, do we really want Cairo or Bloomquist to play everyday? Sure you can always make a trade but there are no guarentees that you will get an upgrade over one of your bench players.

I think this is the point that really makes Morse the best choice.

Posted by Snowbound

1:03 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Keep in mind, if one of the starters goes down for an extended period then you can go to AAA for callups to fill the position. There are alot more options to look at in filling an extended injury then just what's on the bench.

Posted by Nat

1:19 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Donovan- well put. It occurs to me too that ST is at least as hard on the fans as it is on the team.

Posted by oregongal

1:27 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Since we're now scheduling World Series games in November, and everyone agrees players come to camp in much, much better shape than before, let's kill two weeks of spring training and start the season earlier. Tricky scheduling some of those earlier games now, but in a generation, snow won't be much of a problem.

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

1:42 PM, Mar 23, 2008

I'd like to see Wilkerson moved to first base since he has experience at the MLB level playing it and then have Balentien in right field. The last person I remember getting a cortizone shot this late in spring was a Bavasi signing named Pokey Reese. That being said, I'm not a believer that Wilkerson will produce for us.

Posted by Nat

1:44 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Excellent point, oregon gal-

Posted by Resin isn't Cheating

1:58 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Reed Johnson couldn't beat out a rookie outfielder that didn't produce last year after he returned from injury. The M's have a dozen Reed Johnson's in the minors already. Also by looking at Geoff's argument against Morse vs Johnson, I see that veteran experience is valued not a surprise. I'd argue talent beats out experience every time. Do we really need another Jeremy Reed 4th/5th outfielder on the 40 man roster with Reed Johnson?

Posted by AMarinersFan

2:11 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Actually Geoff the majority of Morse's AB's were in 2005 when he was brought up in May. Only about 20% of Morse's AB's have been in September. I am guessing that he faced some Major League pitchers in 2005. Morse was forced to move to 3rd for Betencourt and then to the outfield because of Beltre. Morse's ML playing time since 2005 has had nothing to do with his hitting it's because the Mariners had no where to play him...or chose to play inferior players over him (Vidro).

Also Johnson's numbers are inflated because of playing in Toronto. Here are his carear home/away splits.

Home .292 .354 .437 .791
Away . 271 .331 .384 .715

Aren't stats fun?

Posted by AKMarinersFan

2:13 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Oops. I think he moved to 3rd originally because of Lopez but you get the point.

Posted by AKMarinersFan

2:26 PM, Mar 23, 2008

hmmm...maybe the Angels starting pitching won't be so bad after all. We are going to need to come up with another rationalization for why the Mariners will be contenders this year.

Posted by jujay

2:30 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Looks like Dickey may have just locked his spot of Baek....

Posted by Buschleaguer

2:31 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Your argument for Morse making the team are hypocritical when taken in the context of your historical comments. Weren't you one of the posters complaining about Raul's defense when put in context of the AJ trade? If you thought then that Raul's defense, irrespective of his bat, would hurt the team, then why do you not approach the Morse situation with the same critical eye? It is apparent to everyone that Morse's OF defense is suspect so why do you think he is the answer for the bench? And to say that he is a better hitter than Turbo would require, as Hillary Clinton said to Gen. Petraeus in September, "the willing suspension of belief". He is a decent hitter but not as good as Turbo who hits from both sides of the plate.

Posted by AKMarinersFan

2:35 PM, Mar 23, 2008

I can't think of any satisfactory responses to someone who uses a Hililary Clinton quote in a baseball blog.

Posted by -j.

2:42 PM, Mar 23, 2008

"If it were my team, I'd be leaning towards keeping him over a speedster like Jimerson. That's because the Mariners already have Willie Bloomquist and Miguel Cairo for those roles. If Jimerson is better than those other two at speed -- and that makes you want to keep him over Morse -- then the M's have to ask themselves why Bloomquist and Cairo are on the team."

I think they should ask themselves why they ever thought they needed a guy like Cairo in the first place. He's pretty much a Bloomquist clone that, like Bloomquist, plays a bunch of positions adequately but can't hit.

If Morse makes the club along with Bloomquist and Cairo, we are going without a legitimate 4th outfielder. Cairo, Bloomquist and Morse all supposedly can play OF but none of them do it well. Jimerson is faster than all of them, plays all 3 outfield positions well and hits the ball a ton.

Cairo on this club just doesn't make much sense. A lot of us were questioning whether Bloomquist was worth that 25th spot on the roster. Now we are looking at two Bloomquists on the big league roster.

Just not a strong bench.

Posted by AS

2:51 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Hey guys, long time reader, first time poster.

I found this new blog searching for a mechanical breakdown for Matt Garza (Long story, lol) but stumbled upon It looks like they just got started, but there is all ready some great info there.
Based on what I read there, I'd like the Ms to draft some of those young talents (Hunt, Jacobsen).

Keep up the great work here.

Posted by drlo

2:56 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Bursitis is inflammation of one or more of the bursa sacs in joints around the body. It can be caused by many factors, including infection, but usually is due to repetitive stress of overhead arm motions, ie, throwing a baseball. It usually goes away on its own after a few weeks, but cortisone injection can and usually does bring immediate relief. Not sure of Sexson's case, but the one injection may well solve the problem. It's sometimes confused with or seen in conjunction with rotator cuff damage, as pain can be similar. Geoff, are you sure you had bursitis and not some form of rotator cuff damage? While it can recur, it rarely is chronic as yours seems to have been.

Posted by Swung On And Belted

3:39 PM, Mar 23, 2008

I also think this whole veteran bias conspiracy theory is getting tiresome. The truth is that Reed, Morse, Jimerson, and even Baek are all very ordinary players, which is why they have never stuck in the majors. "- Donovan
The league is full of former Mariners who fit that description. This team makes the same mistakes over and over again. After he's picked up off waivers, Morse is going to be a fine Major Leaguer for a long time on another team. Then maybe when he's a free agent we can get him back like Raul.
I guess I just got caught up rooting for a guy whose done everything that's been asked of him, with a good attitude, for the last few years, and now out of options, to finally make the team. He's been bounced around from one position to another half a dozen times, and now on his last shot he's hitting .500+. I feel like he's done all he possibly can. So his situation makes him I guy you want to pull for. But it's clear most of you out there don't see it that way.

Posted by Publicbulldog

4:33 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Is that bur-sitis or Boo -sitis

Posted by Donovan

5:28 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Swung On - if you read my entire post, you saw that I think Morse deserves to make the team this season, and I say good for him. I like him too. I always have. That doesn't make him starter material though. I think he could be a solid backup hitter this season. If he wants to be a "fine Major Leaguer" someday, he'd better work on his fielding, because he's not very good right now.

I disagree that the M's made a bad call on Raul back in 2000. He was up in portions of 5 years and wasn't that impressive. He was also hurt a lot. He bloomed late and became a fine player in KC. I've heard Raul talk in interviews about this, and that's pretty much the way he sees it. Some guys take longer, but you can't hang on to prospects forever.

I seriously doubt that there are more ex-Mariners playing in the league than ex players from most other teams. It would be interesting to see some numbers if somebody wanted to run them though.

Posted by Bellevue Rob

5:29 PM, Mar 23, 2008

REED JOHNSON??!!?? Just what we need, another right handed hitter in SAFECO. With Richie hurting, only makes the need to get Nick Johnson from the Nats greater. Bill make the deal!

Posted by Swung On And Belted

9:56 PM, Mar 23, 2008

You make some good points. You're right, it would be interesting to see some numbers on that. As a life long Mariner fan, it sure seems that way to me though. A few more names, just off the top of my head: Varitek, Lowe, Ortiz...all World Champs playing for the RED SOX!

Posted by Swung On And Belted

10:02 PM, Mar 23, 2008

Just to clarify, Lowe in 2004, not currently.

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