The sight of Ichiro bunting is fantastic, living in a non baseball country, I am constantly in awe of his abilities.

Latest Barry Bonds News
The Tampa Bay Rays are reported to be interested in offering Bonds a deal. They're considering a one-year, non-guaranteed, incentive-laden contract.

Dave Grozby of KJR is on the radio now talking about how he'd be in favor of the Mariners picking him up under the same terms.

I think as long as it was non-guaranteed and all the money was wrapped up in performance incentives and had morality clauses inserted into the verbage of the contract I think it'd be great for the Mariners. The upside: at least an A.L. West pennant. The downside: Bonds is convicted, and the M's release him with no monetary penalty.

Any whiff of steroids or Bonds acting up in the clubhouse and he's given his walking papers. I think at this stage of his career he wants to prove to everyone he can still play and would be an ideal player.

If all those clauses were in the contract, would you Mariner fans that are vehemently opposed to signing Bonds still be against the deal? I'm curious to hear your comments. Without the clauses I'm as opposed to the signing as you are.

I don't want him or his circus for free

Sign him so we can watch baseball in the fall!

That's exactly the contract we could use and wipe our hands with if he defaults.

If he goes to TB that team is going to be loaded. There record may not reflect it but they should be a .500 club and look at who they play! We could only hope to accrue that talent...

Sign Bonds and validate the Bedard trade!!

scrapiron - No. A thousand times no. Won't happen.

This is the same Ms org that:

- took forever to get rid of Julio "wifebeater" Mateo
- quietly split up and then shuffled away Carlos Guillen and Freddy Garcia when they were partying too hard
- quietly walked from Kaz Sazaki after his lame "I broke some ribs on luggage, it wasn't drinking, honest"
- saw the writing on the wall with Bret Boone and dumped him before people asked too many pointed questions about WHY his performance was dropping off so fast

An org that prides itself on that kind of squeaky-clean image, wouldn't go anywhere near Bonds. They don't have the interest, and wouldn't have the skill, to write - or especially enforce - the kind of contract you describe.

And note that my comment above is strictly my interpretation of what the F.O. would do, based on their past actions. It's completely seperate from my opinion of Bonds' abilities, his baggage, his legal issues, etc.

Geoff,
I'm wondering why I haven't heard any Bonds and M's talk? I have to admit I have chose not to stay up on the Bonds perjury case. Is the case going to happen during the season? Is that why we haven't talked? Otherwise I think we need to seriously consider signing him. He won't get the $16 mil he got last year, maybe a quarter of that. The M's need a three hitter, a power lefty anda DH. That's Bonds all in one.....

Chris, you have a valid point from the FO view. However, this was also the same front office that signed a guy that was rumored (and later proven) to be around steroids, and was such a clubhouse cancer he was released from his team in the middle of a playoff run: Jose Guillen.

The Barry Bonds deal could have the exact same outcome with x2 of the performance.

I would be O.K. with signing Bonds to the type of incentive-laden contract described by scrapiron. I want to win now, and signing Bonds would help a lot. He'd give great protection to Beltre, or whoever batted in front of him. If he's the DH, the M's would have a void at the #2 hole - would Beltre move to #2? However, for reasons stated very well by Chris from Bothell, I doubt that it will ever happen.

-scrapiron

Except Geien wisent on trial. That is what everyone is forgetting. I know he has not been convicted of anything, but what if he IS, then the M’s who had all the previously noted trouble with users would take the hit of being the team willing to give the afore said convicted player a contract.

This FO will never do it, no matter how good he is it is too great a risk from their stand point.

To quote myself “And like I said before, the team already has a bad rap for having had more juiced players caught so is that a reason to paint a target on our heads that says “we are cheaters and don’t care pleas shoot us” That WILL be the medias reaction so just keep that in mind.”

The Tampa bay (no Devil) Rays are busy trying to get bad word out of their name but don’t mind having a bad person in the clubhouse. LOL

AHH I meant Guillen, stupid key board

Geoff, has there been any other hitting type drills/contests? Would be interesting to see if players can place the ball in certain areas of the field (ie hit the ball to the right side of the infield when a man is on second etc...)

A home run derby would be interesting. I heard Ichiro won one last spring training.

Love watching the drills. I'm with David Ortiz: all major leaguers should know how to bunt.

Yuni is starting to remind me a little of Lee Trevino in about 1968. Big smile all the time and constant yakking. Drove Jack Nicklaus nuts.

How was the golf tournament?

Hey Geoff, off topic here, but are you going to try to get some more information from the players about that discussion on Detectovision? I saw Dr D singing your praises a bit, and mentioning that you might try to find out about who is/was setting up the defense. Always great discussions happening over there. And here too ;-) I think it could be a great service to the Ms (and fans) if you could help highlight some of that discussion here a bit.

I am all for Bonds on an incentive laden contract. He would immediately become the M's best hitter. Aside from Jeff Kent, he has always been known as a good guy in the clubhouse.

Ichiro to steal 80 bags next season???

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/02/25/ichiro-to-run-and-then-run-some-more/

Actually ET, they interviewed Ichiro about the stolen bases and he said he could steal 80 bases, but he'd also get caught 80 times, and nobody wants that. He said that McLaren "tends to exaggerate". So Ichiro might steal more bases, but I think 80 is unrealistic.

McLaren also said he thought Yuni could steal 20 bases. I think that is realistic and I'd like to know if Rich Amaral is making any progress with Yuni towards that goal.

Scrappy - You just can't resist the chance to bust on Jose Guillen, can you? I think he should answer for his apparent steroid use back in 2003, but you can't make him into a "clubhouse cancer" by just repeating the phrase 1000 times. His clubhouse contribution in 2007 was 110% positive. I wish we had his persona back on this team.

Get Griffey - Your comment about the TB (not devil) Rays made me laugh. It reminds me of Marlon Brando's line in Apocalypse Now about how American commanders in Viet Nam wanted their troops to be ruthless killers in combat but wouldn't allow them to paint the F-word on their planes. Kind of a bizarre moral hierarchy.

Bottom line - I don't want a championship badly enough to have Barry Bonds on my team. I completely disagree with AK's assertion that the M's can't make the playoffs without Balco Barry, but given that choice, I'd choose second place. This isn't a rules question to me at all. It's a serious ethics question. If people don't understand that concept, then it isn't much worth arguing. I can forgive players who doped in a weak moment or to cope with injury or even just because everybody was doing it, especially during the years when baseball was deliberately looking the other way. That isn't the primary ethics issue. What Bonds did that I find unforgivable is use steroids to try and make himself immortal, then blatantly lie to the world about it, including lying under oath. If he was man enough to admit what he did, like Andy Petitte, I'd be very inclined to be forgiving. He can't do that of course, because it wasn't just a weak moment or a one off thing. Steroids made him what he is. He was a fine line drive hitter before the roids, but he wasn't going to challenge Aaron's record. I don't even think he would have had HoF numbers. Now he has the record and the numbers, but I doubt he'll ever stand at the podium in Coooperstown for an induction ceremony. Neither should Roger.

Regarding Bonds, do you want a championship that comes with an asterisk?

Babu,
It's not like he'd be taking roids while in an M's uniform

K, I'm not sure any of us could say what he would or would not do. I'm suggesting that a team that hires a known cheater who has not put the steroids issue behind him (and still faces legal issues over perjury and tax evasion) and then wins the division is going to be seen as a team that ... well, has to hire cheaters to win. Not a lot of joy in Mudville for that outcome.

And I'm not sure what would persuade Bonds to sign any "morality" or even any "I won't bring my own Barcalounger into the locker room" clauses in a contract. Doing that would seem to be an admission of guilt, wouldn't it?

I'm with Donovan on this.

My last post on Barry Bonds. If you want to understand what makes him different from a kid who made a one time mistake like Mike Morse, read "Game of Shadows", the expose written by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters. It's in the Seattle Library. If you google it, you can find a number of excerpts online, including these:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/03/08/MNBONDSCHART.DTL&type=chart
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/03/08/MNGAKHKF371.DTL

Bonds didn't just fight the effects of aging or injury or prolong his career with steroids. He transformed his body and his game. He didn't do it to feed his family. He did it because he wanted to be worshiped. The man's ego and disdain for the truth is beyond belief. I'm not generally a judgmental person, but there is a point after which it is no longer possible to respect a cheater's accomplishments. For me, Bonds crossed it many years ago.

Donovan said everything I have to say about Bonds.

Except maybe one thing. If he's all gravy and no mud, why was SF so happy to get rid of him? They could certainly use his bat. And his gate draw. And they know how he is as a teammate. That's the end of my Barry Bond rants for the year.

I can't wait for games to start so we have good Mariner stuff to talk about.

I agree with Donovan. Is there anyway we could get Griffey back in Seattle? It makes perfect sense.The Reds have a crowded outfield plus it clears a spot for uber prospect Jay Bruce. Safeco was built for him. Every Mariners fan wants to see him back in Seattle. He would hit his 600th home run as a Mariner. He could play a little right field when he wanted and DH the rest of the time. There'd be a log jam at a few positions but you could trade away the expiring contract of Vidro midway through the season. Also, Griffey could introduce Dave Niehaus in Cooperstown. What a moment that would be My Oh My. Congratulations Dave!!!

Like I’ve been saying, GET GRIFFEY
^__^

Like I’ve been saying, GET GRIFFEY
^__^

Uggh. Mediocrity is spelled SEATTLE.

Bonds may be a headache but don't lie and try to tell me he wasn't a hall of famer prior to SF. Remember all those MVP's he won? His numbers were great enough before he morphed.

This we are too good for you mentality is a joke. You know what you get when you bring someone like him aboard. A proven commodity.

Why did SF let him go? Their window closed for the world series. They have to go young with all that young pitching and have no need for someone that is a now player. Seattle absolutely needs him as a now player.

And to think any of those guys are not playing for ego must have played chess in high school. Ego is what drives them to be the best. Irregardless they need to sign the bobblehead.

And Griffey....talk about a waste of money. He was a great M...Payton was a great Sonic...
Let the past die and be what it was...

Sign Bonds!!!

Donovan- Not once does Scrapiron say that Guillen was a clubhouse cancer in Seattle. Anaheim, certainly thought he was which is the situation he pointed to. He worked out here, just as I think Bonds would as well. He was merely showing that the M's are willing to take a chance on a player with a bad reputation. I am surprised nobody mentioned the vast number of M's minor leaguers and brief major leaguers who have came out on steroids. This organization has turned a blind eye before many, many times.

Bunting is stupid. You only get 27 outs, don't waste any of them. Not making outs is a hitter's (and baserunner's) job.

Mariners Fans:

I do not want to win at all cost. Bonds cheated for his ego sake. His was pissed that Sosa and
Big Mac were getting all the headlines, glory. Is this the type of player we want cheer for and have our kids cheer for?? NO Way, it is like turning our backs on what is good and decent.

My take on Griffey is alittle better but not much.
One of my co-workers recounted a story from back in 1999. They had seats just behind the Mariner
dougout. Griffey spent most of the game in a pouting mode. He made comments like, "I can't wait to get the F--- out of Seattle". All this in hearing distance of the kids and fans. Do we really want Griffey back??

Part of my being a Mariner fan over the years has been that I "Had to Luv These Guys". The truly liked most of the players, I admired the charactors and personalities, Olerud, Brunner, Moyer, Edgar etc. Win or lose it was great to cheer them on.

Ponder this if you will. If Griffey didn't get hurt as much as he did in his career he would be challenging Bonds for the all time home run record. Griffey is a proven commodity. At the age of 37 he hit 37 home runs. Willie Mays, Mantle and McGwire were done by the age of 37. Jimmie Fox who hit 464 home runs before the age 32, which is very close to Junior's 460, was all done by age 33.I was wondering if there was some way baseball players can restructure contracts to take pay cuts like Randy Moss did to play for the New England Patriots? If there is I'm guessing Griffey would be willing to take a pay cut to come back to Seattle. Plus, he could still be a great M because he never really took advantage of the house that he built. We got to catch a glimpse of just what he could do at Safeco when he came back that weekend and hit 2 or 3 home runs in that series. It was like a match made in heaven. Or we could sign Barry Bonds both would satisfy our needs with the same kind of media attention.

Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth ruined there bodies with substances, I would take them on a team. Ty Cobb was a major racist, I would take him as well to win.

James from Walla Walla, you might get along with Ty, can't help but notice you liked all the non-black M's but hate Bonds and Griffey.

Griffey is the reason there is still baseball in Seattle.

Donovan - Let me clear something up. I'm not saying Guillen was a clubhouse cancer in Seattle, nor was I saying anything negative about his time with the Mariners. Just the opposite. He came to Seattle with a lot of baggage. He was labeled a "clubhouse cancer" by Mike Scoscia of the Angels, and they released him in the midst of a pennant race, effectively putting the label on him for everyone in the league to see. Rumors that Guillen took or was taking steroids also were swirling around him, but never proven.

It was with all of that baggage that Seattle took a chance on him anyway, hoping he could turn it around, be a good teammate, not take PEDs, and more importantly, perform on the field. Guillen did all of that and more for the Mariners in 2007.

What I'm saying is that Bonds is under the same "baggage" now, and might be at a point in his career where he too would like to turn it all around like Guillen did last year. And I'm saying I'd give him the same chance to prove himself for one season with the Mariners, assuming that the contract is very specific about what is expected of him and he can be released from his contract at any time if he doesn't stay within those guidelines.

I'm just throwing this out there but there is a huge age difference between guillen and bonds and I think that plays into turning their careers around. I was wondering if anyone knows if the spring training games are on radio or tv. Considering Dave Niehaus and Rick Rizzs are down in Peoria I'd think there'd be some kind of broadcast.

Since when do you folks really think the player's association would allow a "moral clause" contract for Bonds to be accepted? There is no way they would want to start a precident like that. Then you could fire players if they didn't go to church every Sunday or some other such clause some bleeding heart comes up with.

"Past" is spelled B-O-N-D-S.

I think "history" is, too. I'll have to look it up, though.

PS: "Mediocrity" is spelled M-E-D-I-O-C-R-I-T-Y.

hcoguy, not my "fight," but can't let it go:

Bunting is not stupid if the guy bunting is good at it. It's literally a guaranteed base advancement--not so with swinging away.

And that's quite a stretch to accuse James of racism for not liking it that Griffey said "I can't wait to get the f--- out of Seattle."

Griffey screwed the M's by making his insistence on going only to the Reds public. Hard for me to forgive, but I'll always root for him, anyway, and his injuries have been terribly sad, to me...

Merill- Just as its a stretch to make assumptions about players due to one instance (in this case secondhand) it is ridiculous to make accusations when you don't know a person. I was making a point with the racist comment. Fans try to get inside players' heads way too much, we all say things about our jobs we wouldn't want others to here from time to time.

Bunting. It slightly increases the chance of scoring one run, but shoots to heck the chances of scoring multiple runs and the M's play in the AL with a DH and have to compete with the Yankees and Red Sox. One run rarely does the trick.

Having Richie bunt, even in practice, is just stupid. Get him back on track crushing mistakes 450 feet and the M's will do well this year.

Well, hcoguy, that was a fairly abstruse point, and it took three readings of your second comment for me to get it--guess I'm just slow that way (although to be fair to myself, there's a lot of faux controversy going on around me in the office as home-room teachers squirrel about, stressing out about kids making "rockets" at home for a school project).

I don't agree entirely with your take on bunting, but so what? Anyway, I think you're right about Richie...

Re: Bonds - Yes, he cheated. So did everyone else who took steroids. That includes Morse and that includes Pettitte. Before anyone coronates Pettitte as a hero, ask yourself whether he would have come forward had his name not been on the Mitchell report. I'm pretty sure he would not have. And so what if he was hurt? Hundreds of guys get hurt each year, yet choose not to cheat to get back faster. Pettitte is no hero. Neither is Bonds.

I understand that some can't forgive Bonds for what he has supposedly done. That's all fine. Just remember that this organization has always been connected to steroids. So if you want to take the high road - why not give up your season tickets, or boycott the team? Why is Barry Bonds the tipping point?

Re: Bunting - Bunting is bad. A study was done a couple of years back, which looked at results for each ML game for the past 30 or so years, and it found that a bunt results in a negative outcome more often than not. In other words, if you are down by a run late in the game and you've got a man on first with nobody out, it's better to swing away than to bunt. Why? Bunting guarantees an out.

The only time a bunt makes good sense is with a suicide squeeze.

Adam - well put. I've read 'Book of Shadows' as well as 'Juiced' by Jose Canseco, the Mitchell Report, Clemens testimony, and the Shane Monahan allegations. Taken as a whole, it seemed that during the 90's a large population of major leaguers were taking PEDs, and there was no testing to stop it.

The point is that there is now testing in place and suspensions are being handed out. So Bonds, like all major leaguers, should now have to be clean to play the game and should be given a clean slate. Saying that players like Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa should now be blackballed by past transgressions is very near-sighted.

And as for a "morality clause", I do believe it has been done in the past. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't John Rocker have a morality clause in his contract after his racist comments? I say take a chance on Bonds, but keep him on a short leash, with no guarantees.

The funny part is that I don't even like Barry Bonds as a person off the field. But the scoreboard doesn't take away runs for what happens off the field.

Bottom of the ninth, game on the line, do you want Barry Bonds or Jose Vidro at the plate? That's all this debate should really be about.

Adam,

I could cut Bonds some slack if he would come clean over his use. He is to erogant to admit he was wrong, in my openion. It is his charactor I have a problem with! Bonds reasons for doing Roids & HGH, are having to feed his ego for the attention, I have a problem with. He had already won 2-3 MVP awards prior to the start of his abuse. He was an amazing talent, 5- Tool player, 40-40 club, etc. He was well on his way to Cooperston. I collected most of his RC cards and still have them. My point being, do we want someone of this charactor on the Mariner team?

Merrill--thanks for sticking up for me earlier.
In earlier threads this month, I campaigned for a trade to get Griffey. I thought he would be a great fit in RF and DH. This prior to us getting Wilkerson. I had tears in my eyes doing the honors ceremony last year at Safeco. He deserved all the accolades he got. I would not mind Griffey returning to the Mariners to finish his career. We owe him alot as Mariner fans, the health of this franchise today is due to him and the 95" team. I just do not want to see that attitude from a Mariner player again. Thus, my comments, do we really want Griffey??

hcoguy--I admire Ken Griffey Sr, Alvin Davis, Craig Reynolds, Mark Mc Lemore just to name a few black Mariners. I was trying to make a point that integrity and charactor should be one of the reasons to have a player one the Mariners.

I agree. If we really want to clean the game up then boycott. Most of the players at one point or another probably have cheated. Be an adult and explain that to your kids, don't take the high road and say only so and so cheated even though they may have never ever failed a test. This game is a business and if you disagree then you pay those salaries and explain over 6 billion in profits.

I do not like Bonds. I also know how to spell. That being said Bonds is lethal and it is now known his legal problems will NOT affect this season. Sign him up. As for protection and being pitched too, well if you consider a .205 avg protection then wow...

This is a do or die season for Seattle and their management. Bonds will actually increase attendance and that is a prove fact. So is his ability to hit. If they (mgt.) do not sign him we will most likely not make the playoffs and all of those jobs will be or should be vacated.

Do or Die!! Your Seattle Mariners!!

Bunting is useful if used strategically. It increases the chance of scoring one run, while decreasing the chance of scoring multiple runs. There are times that's an appropriate strategy.

The other use of bunting is to keep the defense honest. You occasionally bunt even when it's not the highest and best use of a batter so the defense has to guard against it, which increases your chances of getting a hit with an infielder out of place.

Adam,

What about this scenario?

Ichiro or Willie on first, no outs, a run down, Sexson, Wilkerson, Ibanez, or Johjima batting. They are facing the other teams closer, lets say K-Rod. These guys strike out alot in this situation. Would it not be better to try and advance the runner into scoring position with a bunt or swing bunt. Thus avoiding the double play, or strike-out killing the rally. Thoughts?

Bunting is difficult and asking the heart of your lineup to do so brings forward several big questions:

Can these hitters that struggle with contact be able to lay down a bunt?

Spring training is not going to make them legit bunters.

Why would you sacrifice the heart of your lineup to bunt?

Are they that inadequate?

Do you want to put the bat in the hands of the bottom of the lineup due to the big money folks not being able to make contact?

When was the last time Boston's 3-4-5 hitters bunted?