Can't wait to see them on the field!!

35 year old dh I don't see the point. Belentein would be able to match his numbers. Clement too. Good to get confirmation on who is opening day starter. Now I gotta get good seats for opening day to see bedard fool some rangers.

Alright Geoff! I'm so excited about this season. Especially can't wait for your daily reports from Peoria. Spring training is always one of my favorite times of the year. Man, to even have the choice of Bedard or Felix for opening day, awesome dilemma to "struggle" with ;) Although sounds like there wasn't much of a struggle.

Question for everyone on the blog:
Who's going to come out of nowhere this year and be the surprise of camp? My money's on Wlad.

Enjoy the sunshine you lucky (insert favorite swear word here), I'm jealous!

First of all I think that's stupid that before anyone even pitches, McLaren would tell Erik Bedard he's the opening day starter. It may not be that big of a deal, but why not wait.

Last time I checked Felix was the face of this franchise and as much as everyone wants to get happy about Erik, he may not even be with this franchise in 2 years. Maybe Felix doesn't care, but you never know with someone Felix's age, something small could be viewed upon much more seriously than it should be by kids his age.

Personally I would make keep the person who is your franchise player as happy as possible. It makes no sense in making Bedard the opening day starter, especially if he says things that make it seem like he doesn't care at all versus someone like Felix who says it's an honor.

I'm already getting the feeling this year's going to be a disaster, but here's hoping that I'm wrong.

Last time I checked Ichiro was the face of this franchise.

Look, if Felix is going to get bent out of shape because he wasn't chosen as the opening day starter, then that is the exact reason why he shouldn't be opening day starter. You have to be in better control of your emotions.

It seems to me that if the opening day starter wasn't decided until weeks into spring training, and at that time Bedard was chosen, then Felix would be even more ticked off. That goes to show that Bedard's performance beat out Felix's rather than his reputation. Now that Bedard is already chosen maybe he can use that as fuel to show the Mariner's that they made the wrong choice.

So, another year with Morrow in the bullpen. If, I remember correctly, Morrow's one pitch history kept him out of the starting rotation. Now, with three pitches, he is fighting for the eighth inning set-up man? When, if ever, will we see Morrow in the starting rotation?

I think the best news here is that Morrow has 3 pitches. I'd like to see him start - but he's probably needed in the pen more... but next year - having Morrow, Bedard and Felix in our rotation could be really good...

I still think we should pick up a veteran bat/OF like Kenny Lofton though... he seems to be great for every team contending for a playoff spot... maybe he could fill the leadership void left by Jose Guillen's departure...

The opening day starter should be the most accomplished major league pitcher period. That would be Bedard. If Felix is going to get his panties in a wad (and I don't think he will) over being a #2 instead of #1 then his maturity needs to be called into question. It's not like he's being demoted to the bullpen. Personally I think he'll be happy to have someone of Bedards talent on the staff instead of feeling like he has to carry the entire team on his back. And I kinda think Ichiro is the face of the franchise at this point. Felix needs to put it all together for entire season before he can start thinking he legitimately deserves being a #1.

We didn't even make it one day without a HoHo picture...sigh

Busch
Busch
My out of nowhere surprise I think is going to be Truiunfel. I have a feeling that he is going to pull a Griffey. I remember back in the day he played so well in S.Training that they had no other option then to bring him up. I am not saying that they are going to but he is going to impress for sure. I also have heard about this Bibens-Dirkx reliever who might pull a Lowe and come out of nowhere. It would be very nice for him to grow up quick because we will need someone like him in the bully.

Picking up Norton, who has some power, was a no-brainer. Why not take a flyer on a vet -- if he doesn't have a dynamic spring he can be released and nothing's lost.

Al: seems like you need sunshine and vitamin D more than anyone.

Buschleaguer : My pick for surprise is, like you, Wlad, or Morse, both power guys who could end up making Guillen a forgotten man.

Biggest suprise: 2B JOSE LOPEZ
Lopez comes to camp with fire, the spirit of his fallen brother inspires and focuses him as he tears up Spring Training en route to his second All-Star birth! My bold prdeiction is that Lopez will hit over .280 with 20+ homeruns 80+ rbi's eventually solidifying the #2 spot and leading the Mariners to a AL West title.
(Vidro loses his DH role and the #2 spot in the lineup when he hits just .200 in April and May grounding into a league leading 39 double plays and hitting just 4 doubles and 2 jacks)

I don't think Truiunfel will do too much this year - especially playing the position he plays (already have MLB players in those spots that are good enough). Also - with Wlad and Morse ahead of him on the league-ready pecking order, it'll be hard for him to make a huge impact.

Morse also faces a bit of a situation if he is going to try and surprise as a DH - we already have Vidro there and hopefully Ibanez/sexson will rotate into that spot too.

I'm saying Jeremy Reed will come out of nowhere. Going out on a limb for that guy...

Guys - just because Morrow used three pitches in Venezuela doesn't mean they are ML-quality. It's not like the competition in the VZ league is anywhere close to the bigs.

Every appearance he makes out of the pen in 2008 puts him farther away from being an effective ML-starter.

McLaren's anointment of Bedard makes a clear statement about the leadership role that is expected of him. I like that. We didn't ship all those young guys east for a #2 starter. He's either the staff ace or we got the wrong guy. I think the message to Felix is dead on too. It is time for him to step up and show what he can do for a whole season. I'd much rather see young players challenged than coddled. How do these guys look fitness-wise Geoff?

With regard to Morrow, he is simply not starter material at this point. Lots of guys can hit fastballs when they know it is all you have. I like hearing that he's working on some complementary pitches, but I want to see him throw them for strikes in games before I think about him starting. For that matter, let's see him throw his fastball for strikes consistently. He sure didn't do that last year.

I am definitely jealous of you Geoff... both the weather and the field look incredible!

As for my picks, I'm hoping at least one of these 3 players has a great Spring Training this year and earns a spot on the 25-man roster:

Jeremy Reed
Jeff Clement
Wladimir Balentine

++ We have a bit of minor news already, in that manager John McLaren has told Erik Bedard he will be the team's Opening Day starter. Not that there was ever any doubt. But it's nice to get little details out of the way bright and early.

McLaren told Felix Hernandez this and says the response was very positive.++

Which is good news for M's fans -- their "pitching captain", as it were, is the guy who will go out and knock the enemy #3-4-5 hitters on their backs.

Felix, still figuring it out a bit, gets margin for error. What comes as a bit of a surprise is that Felix takes it in such good cheer.

Interesting peek at the '08 chemistry. Good stuff. :- )

Morrow is not being ruined. He's only in his 2nd year. The fact that he is playing is making him better and he'll be ready for the rotation later.

There's no need to rush him along though. Let him work on those 3 pitches, get used to pitching in the bigs more and more. Then he can slot into the rotation next year or whenever.

I highly doubt he could pitch 200 innings at this stage in the game.

Morrow needs to work on those three pitches and his consistency in Tacoma. Rushing him is keeping him in the bigs as a setup man.

How do you develop pitches when you lack confidence in them and don't throw them late in the game?

Nobody wants him to throw 200 innings, that should not be a 5th starters job, just want him in less stressful situation where if he makes a mistake with his new splitter he doesn't give up on it because it just put the M's behind.

speaking of coin-flips...maybe there's an Anton Chigurh methodology?

I feel like 218 is too light for his frame. I'm not one to complain about a player being committed to being in shape... but I've always felt like pitchers need a thick-ish, sturdy base.

Whatever, I'm excited to hear he's in great shape!!

Long live The King.

I don't understand the fasicnation with Morse and Jimerson that others have, or for that matter Bloomquist. Willie's a great guy and a solid basestealer, but he's not much of a defender and shouldn't ever be sent to the plate to hit.

Here's my bench projections:
Balentien-He should be the RF against all lefties.
Burke-Default backup catcher until Clement is ready. I'd rather have Clement beat out Burke, but I don't think he'd play enough at the big-league level.
Cairo/Bloomquist-I give the edge to Cairo defensively, but Willie is the "incumbent". We can't carry both.
Reed/Morse-Reed for his glovework, Morse for his bat. It'll be interesting to see who wins out here, again I don't think we should carry both.

Bullpen
Putz
Morrow
Rhodes
O'Flaherty
Green
Lowe (or Reitsma if Lowe's not healthy, although this middle spot is a bit worrisome)
Rowland-Smith as the long man

Don't forget Horacio for the bulpen. They won't pay him $2.75Mil to pitch for the Rainiers(if they can even option him which I doubt). So even if he has an infinite era in spring and can't hit 70MPH with his heater, he is guaranteed the long man spot due to that salary. Awesome

Adam,
I don't think we're ruining Morrow or "setting him back" at all. Earl Weaver used this method of breaking in young starters all the time. I think using his other pitches in a higher leverage situation will tend to make him better. The old "whatever doesn't kill ya, makes ya stronger" philosophy. Now, if he resorts to only throwing the fastball due to lack of confidence, then I agree with you (did I just say that?) that they are retarding his progress. We'll just have to see.

PLAY BALL!

PS: Although I think Wlad is gonna be the surprise, i'm definitely pulling for Clement (met him in Peoria in ST 2006 - real nice, respectful guy) and most ESPECIALLY Young Mr. Lowe. If we can get the Mark Lowe of 2006 back.....WOW! What heat we'd have comin' out of the bullpen in late innings! Morrow, Lowe, Putz............

Announcing a #1 before the physicals were over? Interesting move on McLaren's part. I love Felix and would really label him a 1A but the psychology of this move makes sense if you think he underperforms occasionally due to his age, which I do. It takes some pressure off him and allows him to really develop as a pitcher IMHO.

nobody expects Morrow to throw 200 innings this year. But how many people on this blog want him to throw 175 to 200 innings in 2009 as a Starter for the Mariners? Quite a few I would guess.

But here is the problem. Morrow’s inning pitched total for the last several years

2004: 29 innings (U of Cal)
2005: 25 innings (U of Cal)
2006: 112 innings (96 at U of Cal, 16 in Minors)
2007: 100 innings (63 with Mariners, 37 in Winter Ball)
2008: ??

If Morrow is the primary RH setup guy AND we send him to Winter Ball to stretch him out I’d guess he’ll throw about 110 innings in 2008 (70 in Majors, 40 in Winter Ball).

So how many innings do you want to push him in 2009? I’d think anything over 150 is getting to the area of overuse which increases the chance of injury in 2010. Tom Verducci at SI tracks what he calls the “Year After Effect” where he looks at how a pitcher under 25 fares if he throws more than 30 more innings than the previous year. Pretty grim history. Over half the players that were on this list in 2005 and 2006 ended up on the DL the next year (i.e., like Francisco Liriano). Note that Fausto Carmona threw 56 more innings in 2007 so he is on the 2007 list and it will be interesting to see how he fares in 2008.

Now if Morrow was down in Tacoma as a starter where his innings could be managed better and you let him throw maybe 140 this year, then you could feel much more comfortable pushing him out to 170+ in 2009.

I'm not sure I like the announcement about Bedard being the opening day starter. It might take pressure off of Felix, but we know he really liked being the opening day starter last year. Will this feel like a demotion and put him in a funk? After all, Bedard seemed ready to accept Felix as number one starter. We'll see. Other than that, I like how the Mariner's starting rotation looks.

Silva looks like he's in great shape. I expect to see Balentien essentially beat out Wilkerson at right field and then lose the 25-man roster spot at final cuts, due to Bavasi's commitment to veteran players.

Pitching looks good but we need a power bat someone is scared of. Ken Griffey, Jr. would be a nice addition for the right deal!!! You think????

Both Felix and Bedard have said that it doesn't matter who goes first. Bedard is the opening day starter because he has the most MLB experience and IS the more polished pitcher. Having Felix watch Bedard 1 night and have him pitching the next night, should do wonders for his understanding of how to get that particular team out. And, later in the season, when Bedard closes out a series, I like my chances for in game 1 of the next series. Without the trade for bedard, Wash was our NUMBER 2. Not strong at all. Geoff's right, we need to be applauding the m's for seizing the opportunity this time around.

Buschleaguer - the difference between the guys Earl Weaver pitched and Morrow is that Morrow has never started as a professional, six starts in VZ aside. He simply doesn't have starting experience, and can't be expected to just pick up the ball one day and throw 6-7 innings, going through a ML-lineup three or more times, while throwing three ML-quality pitches.

If the Mariners truly envision him as a starter, he's being mishandled.

Norton isn't exactly the guy I was hoping the M's would go get...still want that solid OF platooner for Wilkerson.

Bench will be:

Morse - good off the bench with a bat

Jimmerson - wildcard, but solid defense with speed

Bloom Bloom - come on guys, he's scrappy and a hustler!

Cairo - we'll need another IF backup with Willie.

Reed - Solid backup OF.

Balentien and Clement will be AAA to start the year and both will be on the roster by the end of June.

BP:

Putz - Nails.

Morrow - Mr. 8th Inning

RRS - the new George Sherril.

Green - solid 6th or 7th RP.

Lowe - To spell those guys.

O'Flaherty - To spell Lowe.

Feierebend/Baek - Looooooong Relief (for the games Wash and JoBat can't handle).

Dickey/Huber/Reitsma/Rhodes/whoever - the mop crew, for the bad blowouts.

It's still a very solid BP and I don't see the M's needing to use it NEARLY as much as they did last year, only 2 out of O'Flaherty, Morrow, Putz, Green, Lowe, RRS on any given night.

Exciting year, I'll take the over on 89 wins and the under on 97, if Sexson hits 35 HR's Seattle wins the West.

Biggest Surprise: RICHIE SEXSON. He'll be healthy, mentally clear, and will hit around 30 HRs.

I like Jeff Clement too.

Triunfel is far too young to compete for a spot. Even if the guy kills in Spring Training he still needs at least 1 or maybe 2 years before he should be considered for a spot on the roster. He has the "potential" for power but didn't show any of it last year in the minors.

Bedard is the easy choice as the opening day starter because we went out to get a true #1 and gave up a stable of very good prospects to get him, plus he had the numbers to back it up. Felix was #1 by default last year and I'm sure he's fine with the decision McLaran made.

Ryan Rowland-Smith the new George Sherril? Left handers hit .275 against RRS. No, O'Flaherty is going to have to be your new George Sherrill. O' held lefties to a .193 average.

The sad part is there is really no competition for the left-handed role. RRS isn't ready, and Rhodes isn't healthy. Let's hope one of those two steps it up or we will have to go find a southpaw for the BP.

stecks: no backup catcher on your bench?

One last note on RRS: At Lara of the Venezuelan league he posted a 5.34 ERA. Left handers hit .292 against him there. Yikes.

C'mon Arthur, show us there's some magic left in that arm!

bsstecks - you can't have 6 hitters on the bench, nobody in baseball does that anymore.

5 is do-able. We don't need Cairo AND boom boom.

Carry one of the two AND

Burke
Reed/Jimerson (or both and dump Norton)
Morse (while being a bad defender at 2b, SS, OF and 3B, can play the positions IF needed)
Norton

I firmly believe Wlad should be playing regularly at AAA until he's needed to play regularly in Seattle. Clement should not be kept either if it means sitting on the bench. I don't trust Mac to do the right thing with his bench. Past performance tends to give me some indication how he'll use his bench in the future, regardless of what he's telling the press.

blah blah blah...

Morrow will be fine, you guys grumble too much. I personally think he needs to cling to Bedard as much as possible. Bedard throws his fastball 3 different ways (major reason he's so effective). Also I don't think you guys appreciate the power of Mel, hes probably the best in the game and I want him to work his magic on Morrow. This is the best place for him to be, facing the best and learning from the best. No way the minors compare, the Ms are anything but "redarding his developmen"

What does Greg Norton potentially bring that one wouldn't get from Balentien or Morse? Apart from being a switch hitter, obviously.

No slight to Mr. Norton, his skills, effort or character.

Yeah I would like to see what Jimerson can do, but being behind Wlad AND Reed (he is right?) doesn't bode well for him.

I think a name that's going pop up on the radar this spring is Cesar Enrique Jimenez. I think he's going to win a spot in the bullpen, and become a go-to guy against lefties. I know it's just winter ball, but his numbers were beyond outstanding. No one had heard of George Sherrill before he suddenly emerged on the scene. I think Jimenez falls into the same category.

One other thing: I have always considered myself a horrible pessimist when it came to the M's. My wife, who loves baseball, won't even watch with me sometimes because of how much I complain. But there are some folks on this blog who have me beat by a mile.

Zach:

Good to see another believer in the School of Mel. And I like his running mate, Mr. Charlton. Morrow will be in a great position to help AND learn this year.

I think Mel is a great teacher but there is nothing you can substitute for experience and development. And the other thing to keep in mind is that Mel did a great job with experienced or groomed pitchers...He needs to throw a lot of innings seeing the lineup several times learning to become confident in his pitches.

And if there is a surprise player in camp it's gonna be a pitcher. Problem will be that HoRam is awfully expensive to not get a roster spot...

I'm looking forward to a great season, not only from our staff's two aces, but from Ichiro and others as well. Very exciting.

I agree with Beady Eyes about Balentien. Also, Morse used to be a SS, and has been working the corners lately, so he can fill in at third, first, or left/right field. If Mac uses the bench like he said he would, he should still get the chance to play 3-5 times a week and keep developing.

If Dickey looks as solid as I suspect he will, the M's will carry 12 pitchers, and if HoRam sucks, they can cut him and eat two-hundred-some-thou. Also, Dickey's versatility and ML experience per Steve-O's writeup seems to argue for 11 pitchers and a deeper bench.

RSS's numbers in Venezuela, as Scrappy pointed out, were terrible. Don't know if he was working on new pitches there, or what.

PS, Adam, I kept an eye on our boys in Venezuela all off-season and I would classify the rosters down there as "AAAA." Meaning, there were a lot of young MLers, a lot of old MLers, and a lot of other high-end prospects like Jones and Balentien. A high level of competition, all fighting for jobs or to hone their skills.

And Morrow's numbers were very very good. Not as good as White's, who had a less than 1.0 WHIP, but Morrow had a nearly 4-1 K/BB rate (31/8) and about a 1.18 WHIP.

Since they pitched him for exactly 37 innings (which added up to exactly 100 total, per Big Ebu's excellent post (thanks for that, for me, you've added more insight to that discussion than anyone) and pulled him nearly a month early, one might guess they have a plan to give him more innings down there next winter. (Personally, it seems to me they should go by pitch count rather than innings thrown, but what do I know?)

Given that he was pulled about a month early and started about a month late, one could easily forecast another 20 innings for him down there next year, plus giving him a good couple of weeks before sending him down and a good month before ST.

That would, according to Big Ebu's post, set him up nicely for 150 innings in 2009, and with the M's depth, they could easily shut him down for a couple of weeks and bring him back just in time to get ready for the playoffs.

Here's a little bit of speculation:

Starters +

Dickey
Green
Lowe
Morrow
Putz

O'Flaherty
Rhodes/???

I think having 2 lefties is excellent... but I also think HoRam is gonna surprise. I want to see Baek White Feierabend RSS starting in the minors. HoRam might join them, or nudge the mythical 2nd lefty aside in the ML BP.

Or get cut.

well in 2006 Norton had an OPS of .895 and had 17 HR in 294 AB. This is much better than any of the other candidates for the Mariners bench that he would be competing against (Morse, Cairo, Bloomquist, Reed, Jimerson). So could be a good signing if he shows that form. Little risk too since it is a Minor League contract.

Zach C - tell us how using your fastball 90% of the time, throwing no more than 30 pitches an outing, and failing to face a ML-lineup even a second time is good for Morrow's development as a starter.

My problem with Morrow is if you continue to stretch out his innings you are most likely going to over use him like Liriano in MN and that means well for him 18 months out of baseball.

Starting over a season in the minors is easier on him to build strength and allowing the body to rest rather than have him pitching limited innings all year long.

Pulling him out for a few weeks to temper innings is a terrible idea. What if he gets hot and is un-hittable down the stretch and we can't afford to pull him to make the playoffs? Then we have a Liriano, Wood, and Prior type situation.

If our strength in the bullpen is all of the arms why not be smart and send Morrow down to let him learn to be a pitcher and think of that upside....A potential 3 man pitching team of Bedard, Felix and Morrow....That's impressive.

Fear is that if Morrow is kept in the bullpen he will become a Letroy Hawkins....A guy with a hell of an arm but only two pitches at best.

Zach- I totally agree with you that it will be interesting to see how Mel works - with all the guys really. I think he will be a steadying influence on Felix, in particular...

The idea the majors arn't conducive to growth and development (or not as much as the minors) is really untrue in my view. Spending just one year in AAA to "learn how to pitch" isn't enough time, and I don't think he needs it anyway. Say what you want about Venezuela, he pitched very well against professional hitters (many established ML players). I think the opportunity he has playing at this level is far more valuable than if he was sent down to simulate what he already can handle

"Every appearance he makes out of the pen in 2008 puts him farther away from being an effective ML-starter"- blah blah blah, rediculous...he hasn't even started his second year. Using the word fail doesn't make sense either. When did Morrow ever fail to do what was asked of him. He was never asked to go through a ML linup more than once, he was never asked to develop his pitches (until the offseason, he did by the way and will be using them frequently), he was never asked to throw mor than 30 pitches, he was never asked to be the Ms 5th starter. How much sense does it make to question the development of any player who is competing with absolutely no experience and yet always lived up to his responsibilities. Experience doesn't fall from the sky he won't go into the minors and learn how to go through a lineup and pitch effectively in a single year. His development as a starter only started this winter in venezuela. That is the only time hes pitched regularly in that role as a professional right? He did prepare himself to be the 5th starter, and he succeded in developing those things you keep grumbling about...I don't understand what you saw last year that makes you think he is in trouble, or he cant live upto what is asked of him

"and failing to face a ML-lineup even a second time is good for Morrow's development as a starter"- the "failing" quote i refered to...

The idea the majors arn't conducive to growth and development (or not as much as the minors) is really untrue in my view.

That's not what I said - I said spending an entire season in the bullpen, throwing one pitch 90% of the time, is no conducive to development as a starter. Like I said, if you want to explain otherwise, be my guest.

Spending just one year in AAA to "learn how to pitch" isn't enough time, and I don't think he needs it anyway.

It sure can be. Tim Lincecum didn't need a full season to show his development was complete. Morrow isn't close to being the pitcher Lincecum is right now.

Say what you want about Venezuela, he pitched very well against professional hitters (many established ML players).

Established ML players like who? Jose Castillo? Richard Hidalgo? Marco Scutaro?

I think the opportunity he has playing at this level is far more valuable than if he was sent down to simulate what he already can handle

You have no evidence that Morrow can handle starting at the bigs, which is exactly what he'd be simulating in the minors.

Using the word fail doesn't make sense either.

Whatever. By fail, I of course meant that he had not yet accomplished the task.

How much sense does it make to question the development of any player who is competing with absolutely no experience and yet always lived up to his responsibilities.

It makes perfect sense, because starters and relievers are asked to do different things.

Experience doesn't fall from the sky he won't go into the minors and learn how to go through a lineup and pitch effectively in a single year.

I'm not talking about experience, I'm talking about developing second and third pitches, about learning to pace himself, and learning to change strategies as he faces a lineup for the second and third time. He's never had to do any of those things.

His development as a starter only started this winter in venezuela. That is the only time hes pitched regularly in that role as a professional right? He did prepare himself to be the 5th starter, and he succeded in developing those things you keep grumbling about...I don't understand what you saw last year that makes you think he is in trouble, or he cant live upto what is asked of him

How do you know he succeeded in developing necessary skills for a starter? He had six starts against AA-quality hitters. And have you read any scouting report that says he mastered those skills?

What I saw last year was a guy who relied almost competely on a fastball that he had trouble controlling. He could get away with that as a reliever, but not as a starter. I don't think that's really much of a point for debate. So, if the Mariners asked him to start beginning in April, I'd say he's not ready to do so. And I think his 2007 season is very strong evidence of that.

You can get by with one plus pitch as a reliever. It doesn't work as well for starters. Morrow needs more time working as a starter, but Bavasi of course is in such a "win now" mode, the future doesn't really matter all that much.

So Erik Bedard is going to be the opening day starter. I've worked out the SABR numbers on this, and I can say conclusively that he may or may not win the game.

Here's a recent scouting report on Morrow's winter:

http://prospectinsider.com/2008/01/01/brandon-morrow-rhp/

"So the Mariner bullpen definitely worked more. But if you remember, the Mariners were involved in a number of blowouts, where the starter (Weaver, HoRam, Feierabend) had a very early exit. In those games, we’d probably expect more work from the back-end relievers (such as Jason Davis, Sean White, etc.) And I think we can agree that those types of relievers, who are quite replaceable, play little to no role in projecting a team’s future success. So let’s look at the top 5 relievers in each bullpen"

So The Mariners' "Top 5" pitched fewer innnigs than the Angels' Top 5? Shocking! There's a pretty good reason for that, and it has nothing to do with who is/isn't more overworked. A pretty big reason (ahem, 7 man bullpen), but baseballreference.com won't be able to tell you what it is, just like it can't tell you how many pitches each pitcher threw in those innings or how many consecutive appearances some pitchers had. If you want to hear about how overworked the Angel pen was, an Angel blog would be a good place to start.

And really, the concept of an "overworked" closer is laughable. If your closer is leading the bullpen in innings pitched (as Putz did), that's a good thing, not a bad thing. Putz was tied with Joe Nathan as the closer with the most innings pitched in the AL.

Oh by the way, the Mariners played 85 games in the first half, 3 fewer than the Angels. So let's do a more accurate experiment. Drop the closer numbers, because they're irrelevant to how overworked a bullpen is. Add up the top 4, and use the real 1st half numbers. That would be 85 for the Mariners, 88 for the Angels. Recalculate, and give me your full report.

Hmmm....Bedard, Felix, Silva/Washburn, Morrow and another young arm and that is one mean rotation and we control some for years and cheap.

You don't waste draft picks on guys to place them in the bullpen.

Develop the guy, we don't need him in the pen. If he dominates for half a year in Tacoma bring him up. Talk about a bonus...Like injecting Lincecum into the lineup.

Of course instead of developing a young stud we could just buy another next year and add CC for 25 mil and keep Morrow in the bullpen.

We would lead the league in ERA and fewest runs scored.

Charles--Unless there's snow. :)

Adam, Donovan, downinthegroove, Big Ebu, (sorry if I missed someone), great stuff on Morrow. We need him up here next year as a starter and I think that's going to be tough unless he spends some time in Tacoma. But I can't see it happening, so I hope I'm wrong.

Joe, I'm with you, looking for fire and production from Jose Lopez.

With absolutely nothing to base it on, I hope Jimerson leaves us all breathless (not in a Weaver way) this year. I'm always looking for the combination of good player/good guy, and never more so than after watching my least favorite bully today.

Like I said, he only started his development this winter and did a very good job. And since he couldn't have been effective w/o those things you say needed work, I guess he musthave developed them. and as far as the talent in venezuela- Adam Jones was there, we all know what you think of him. it seems reasonable to me that players of his imence talent would be imposing to any pitcher alive!

It's Morrow's development, not lincecum's (yeah what a great job he did in that very very impressive offensive division in the NL). He has nothing to do with anything...

It just doesn't make sense to me when you question Morrows abilities as a starter even though he's never been a starter or put in that kind of situation. It's like saying "Sexon? oh man he is the worst base stealer ive ever seen. Oh yeah have you seen his bunting, the guy is hopeless."

He does (although I cant prove it) all the things in the offseason to prepare for a spot in the rotation, but no the kid is a failure and will never throw the first pitch in a game...doomed for eternity in the bullpen

X - actually, Baseballreference has this really nice feature call "gamelog", and it actually let's you see the dates of each pitcher's appearances. I'd suggest you go there before you pompously pontificate on what it can and cannot do.

Also, you do realize that a 7-man bullpen supports the idea that the M's pen was NOT overworked, don't you? (especially if other teams use a 6-man pen)

Finally, if you want to dispute my work, it's YOUR job to run the numbers and show me where I may be wrong. So, with all due respect, you go recalculate and give me your full report.

Zach C - perhaps you were being sarcastic, but I'm sure you realize that the vast majority of hitters in VZ were not as good as Jones. And since Morrow and Jones played on the same team, well...

Further, re: Lincecum - you said pitching in AAA isn't enough time for a guty to learn how to pitch. Lincecum was just an example of why it doesn't necessarily take a year or more in AAA.

Finally, he is a one-pitch pitcher with no experience going through a ML-lineup more than once. He's never worked more than 3 innings at a time. He can't throw offspeed pitches with any consistency. I think those are pretty important qualities to have in a starter.

downinthegroove,

re: your reasoning for Morrow being pulled for a couple of weeks being terrible due to the heat of the pennant race:

I understand your thinking, but I also think you're expecting too much out of him his first year as a starter. Think Felix 2-3 years ago. I think those will be eminently replaceable numbers.

I'm not expecting too much out of Morrow. The problem is that management tends to let it ride when things go there way. If you let him develop you may get a lot out. But also think how quickly we pushed Felix...

If you let Morrow develop he may be a solid stud while still young.

I will take a #4-5 starter out of him next year. Nothing more, but good pitchers with talent get hot at certain times. Mis-management destroys careers and youngsters....i.e.Dusty Baker....

I don't feel it is a lot to ask of your first round draft pick to be groomed and to produce. He is protected by Bedard and Felix someday we hope...If brought up correctly.

Problem is we are trying to go all or nothing now when we could be even better next year by sending ONE kid down to develop. If Morrow is what we need to make the playoffs ouch.

Look at his numbers, he did not pitch a lot of innings in college and he didn't develop his fastball (mph) until late in his career. He needs to pitch and learn to pitch period. He is very talented and very inexperienced, and AAA can do that.

I think I just took 47 ways to express my viewpoint and am still unclear if I was clear!

You were clear, downie! Thanks...

downinthegroove,

No argument from me. I want Morrow to start in 2009 and I just don’t think that spending all of 2008 in the bullpen is the best way to get there. The more I think about it, having Morrow throw more innings in Winter Ball (2008-9) to prep him for starting in 2009 may be counterproductive. He would end up pitching almost continuously from now to Spring Training 2009 without more than a few weeks break. Not sure what impact this would have on his arm if he then goes and throws 150 innings in the 2009 regular season.

You’re right about his college ball stats. His only good year was in 2006 when he started 14 games and averaged almost 7 innings a start. Of course he normally pitched on 6 days rest too.

Man, I love this time of year. The picture of the field was just awesome.

I am really looking forward to what the M's can do this year.

GO MARINERS!!!!

" if you want to dispute my work, it's YOUR job to run the numbers and show me where I may be wrong."

Already have. You were basing your flawed first half analysis on 88 games. But it's actually your whole premise that's flawed. When people talk about "overworked bullpens", they aren't talking about closers, who (usually) only come in to save a game, or situational lefties, who only pitch a full inning about a third of the games they appear in. As opposed to a Sean Green, who went one inning or more about 60% of the time. Oh by the way, Green had zero appearances in April. He was called up after the disgusting Mateo incident. Did you factor that in with your shoddy first half analysis? Let's look at some numbers for late April and early May.

April 21st

O'Flaherty - 2 innings, 21 pitches
Mateo - 1 inning, 27 pitches

April 22nd

Reitsma - 1 inning, 22 pitches
White - 3 innings, 52 pitches

April 23rd

Morrow - 3.1 innings, 50 pitches

April 26th

Reitsma - 1 inning, 23 pitches

April 27th

Reitsma - 1 inning, 32 pitches

April 28th

Mateo - 2 innings, 43 pitches
White - 3.2 innings, 73 pitches
O'Flaherty - 2 innings, 36 pitches

May 3rd

Reitsma - 2 innings, 43 pitches
Mateo - 2 innings, 36 pitches

May 4th

O'Flaherty - 2.1 innings, 57 pitches, comes back for one batter on the 7th, then comes back on the 12th for 4.2 innings and 60 pitches.

May 5th

White - 2.1 Innings, 54 pitches, not available again until May 15th.

May 6th

Green - 1 inning, 26 pitches

May 8th - 1.1 inning, 32 pitches

May 10th

Green 3 innings, 55 pitches. Then he doesn't appear again until May 23rd.

Starting on May 14th, the team played 23 consecutive games without a day off. When that happens, you may have 4-5 bullpen arms available every game. If two of them are Sherrill and Putz, that gives you even fewer options. So if you're in the middle of a 23 game stretch, and HoRam pitches 2 innings on the 24th, and a starter goes 3.2 innings like Washburn did on June 1st, it really puts the team in a bind. They had to use 5 relievers that day.

Just because your favorite website separates the closer and 4 other relief pitchers from everyone else, doesn't mean that you can compare just those players and draw any conclusions. Just look at Sean White. He had 5 games in April and May where he pitched more than 3 innings. He also had 5 games where he threw more than 45 pitches. When that happens, he becomes unavailable for a few days. He pitched 20.7 innings in his first 7 games, then his ERA went from 4.03 to 7.03 in the next 2 games. I'd call that fatigue. That means that the other guys who should be throwing in the later innings have to come in when a starter fails. Then they become unavailable for a few games. Again, the domino effect.