Geoff Baker covers the Mariners for The Seattle Times. He provides daily coverage of the team throughout spring training, and during the season.
January 27, 2008 8:48 PM
Posted by Geoff Baker
Many of you have started wringing your hands over this item in the Baltimore Sun, written after our blog post, saying that an Erik Bedard-Adam Jones deal had not been finalized. Well, yes, we know that. If it was finalized, then Jones would not be flying back to the United States to take a physical.
Sorry, I'm not trying to sound flippant here. But when you've got the Orioles and Mariners, two of the most media-shy teams in baseball, trying to make a trade, any leak is bound to be greeted as an event of earthquake proportions. Let's all settle down and just look at the facts as calmly as we can, please.
1. Adam Jones himself, the rumored centerpiece of the deal, told the reporter in Venezuela that he was leaving in the middle of the winter league championship round so he could fly to Baltimore for a physical. Why would Jones make that up? Jones says he was told by Mariners GM Bill Bavasi that he was the centerpiece of the Bedard trade. Again, why make that up?
2. Orioles president Andy MacPhail, who prides himself on keeping even the day of the week a secret from anyone he can, can't be thrilled that Jones let the cat out of the proverbial bag. So, did MacPhail say a deal is not going to happen? No, he told the Baltimore Sun: "We do not have an agreement with the Mariners.'' Now, that could mean a million things. Like I said, if there's a physical involved, the deal won't be done until Jones passes it. Perhaps, since Jones has the furthest to travel, the M's are just getting him back to the U.S. and keeping him on standby until the physical is to be taken. That's why MacPhail insisting there won't be a physical in Baltimore on Monday is not something to pay too much heed to. Will it be in Baltimore on Tuesday after Jones arrives there and gets a good night's sleep? If so, MacPhail's quotes from today will still ring true, so he's covered himself.
Look, the M's sources I've spoken to today have also said the deal is not yet done. But it's close. So close that the team has not only pulled Jones out of Venezuela smack dab in the middle of the country's championship series, but is flying him back to the U.S. You don't just do that unless a deal is very close to getting done. The last time, the team simply had Jones hang out in Venezuela for a bit before clearing him to start playing again once a deal fell through. Not now.
We spoke to Geroge Sherrill and to Bedard's agent and neither has been contacted yet. So what? Jones only arrives in the U.S. tomorrow. Both Sherrill and Bedard are already in the country. All it takes is a phone call tomorrow, or Tuesday, to alert them.
Things to watch out for? Only one. Orioles owner Peter Angelos is notorious for scuttling even the best laid of plans at the last minute. I'm sure he can't be thrilled that Jones told the world he's about to be traded for Bedard. Would Angelos be upset enough over that to pull the plug on a deal? Some people actually think it's possible. I say that's crazy. You either like a deal, or you don't. If you're going to conduct business like that, using borderline rational behavior to guide you, then your team might as well forget about ever contending again. We've been told that after 10 years of watching the O's slide into irrelevance, the franchise is now changing its ways and that Angelos will allow his baseball people to do their jobs. We'll see.
Some of you are asking why you can't find the quotes from Jones after scouring the internet looking for the original source in Venezuela. That one's simple. I told you, we had a relationship with the newspaper, Diario Panorama, and its reporter. He was generous enough to provide us with all the quotes, because he realizes how big the news is for fans back here in Seattle.
In other words, we had it out in public before his newspaper had a chance to publish the story for tomorrow's editions. That's why you can't find it. I told you we try to get you stuff fast here. Keep this in mind if you don't see an official announcement on a trade until late Tuesday, or even Wednesday. We got this stuff out, from news that travelled across two continents, much more quickly than the M's or Orioles ever expected it might leak. Larry Stone did some wonderful work on this today as well. We really did try to let you know what was going on. I'm sorry we can't deliver it to you signed, sealed and wrapped up in a bow. Get on the horn to Bavasi and MacPhail (or Angelos) about that one.
We've spoken with the reporter by email down there within the past hour and he's been reading the internet and is upset that some seem to be calling the Jones quotes he took into question. He says he never even asked Jones about the Orioles -- only about why he was leaving the team -- and that it was Jones who went off on the long monologue about the trade, completely unsollicited. He offered to play us the tape recordings he took over the phone, since he is staying in a hotel for the championship series and has left his MP3 player at home. We're not going to bother. We trust him.
The direct quote from the Venezuelan team's manager, none other than Luis Sojo, about the possibility of a Jones trade to Baltimore, was: "When you're going to take a physical, something is going to happen almost always.''
Perhaps I was premature in suggesting an announcement could be made later tomorrow. It takes a while to fly back from Venezuela and Jones only says he's leaving tomorrow morning. Not sure what flight he's on, but there's probably a connection or two involved and it wouldn't get him to Baltimore until at least the middle of the afternoon. Is there even time to rest up and take a physical? Who knows?
So, let's all take a deep breath and chill.
Normally, I'd be skeptical about going so hard on a story like we did today. After all, there is a point where too much speculation doesn't help anyone. But read the quotes by Jones. There is very little ambiguity there. Somebody told him something and he went into it in great detail. Am I going to put more stock into that, or a somewhat ambiguous denial from a GM who could technically be telling the truth while looking like he's giving the strongest possible denial? I'll go with Jones. He has no reason to fudge the truth.
Stay tuned. Looks like this soap opera is finally about to end.
UPDATE (9:48 P.M.): For helpfelix in the comments thread, thanks for the airline info. So, assuming Jones arrives on time, gets through customs in an hour (remember, it's a flight from South America), gets his bags in a timely fashion and cabs it (20 minutes in normal conditions) to Baltimore from BWI Airport, that gets him to downtown in Monday rush hour traffic at what, 4:30 p.m. if he's lucky? Maybe 5 p.m.? Do you think they make him take a physical at that point after waking up at 4 a.m. for his flight? Not very likely.
Posted by salemdawg
9:36 PM, Jan 27, 2008
It's about friggin time! As long as Morrow isn't involved. They blew that pick by passing on Lincucum (Sp?)...don't get rid of him now.
Posted by jwelliott
9:38 PM, Jan 27, 2008
Bedard a No. 1 starter. The last time I checked, didn't Felix nail that role down last year.
Posted by tommyreno
9:38 PM, Jan 27, 2008
The Mariners own website is reporting that it's Jones, Sherrill and Tillman and one more minor leaguer for Bedard. Do you think that's true, Geoff? Who do you think the other player is?
Posted by Kevin
9:39 PM, Jan 27, 2008
Never submitted on a blog before but I am excited about this trade if it really happens! A quality pitcher is worth it. I'd sure love to have Mel Stottlemyre's view point. Has anyone seen anything that he has said?
Posted by Mikey Slade
9:40 PM, Jan 27, 2008
So who is our third outfielder going to be? Stan Javier?
Posted by Rick, Spokane, WA
9:41 PM, Jan 27, 2008
My only comment- IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!!
Posted by helpFelix
9:42 PM, Jan 27, 2008
Just a FYI:
So there is an early flight heading from Ven early morning, and arriving in Baltimore early Monday afternoon!
Posted by helpFelix
9:45 PM, Jan 27, 2008
So much for my previous link...let's try again:
Here's the flight!
Posted by chipper
9:50 PM, Jan 27, 2008
I was at FanFest the last two days, and hearing Bavasi on both days speak makes me believe this is a done deal. He said he hopes to finish a deal, "within the next few days."
Geoff, what do you read into the situation at FF with Richie? I heard that a lot of people were upset (my cousins too) that he left all of a sudden only 15 mins into his auto session. Could he be a part of the deal? And does this mean Wladimir Balentien is the new RF of the Future?
Posted by mistadoc
9:51 PM, Jan 27, 2008
Thank's for bustin your butt investigating this geoff much appreciated always love your hard work, and dedication.
Posted by Joe C
10:08 PM, Jan 27, 2008
I still hold out hope that someone backs out of this deal. Bedard should be just good enough to get us to .500 and second in the division before he leaves in two years as a free agent. Then we'll be looking for another starter, and Ichiro will be expected to cover 80% of the outfield because no one in the corners can run. I miss the Ichiro-Cameron-Winn outfield.
Posted by Brophy32
10:08 PM, Jan 27, 2008
Why are the M's not interested in Brian Roberts?
Posted by sick to my stomach
10:13 PM, Jan 27, 2008
I'm only wringing my hands hoping the report's true. The Mariners management are a bunch of bozos, without any clue about how to evaluate talent or put together a trade or field a competitive team. For the amount of money they spend every year...
I'll be pulling for Adam Jones to have a great year and maybe, just maybe put the last few nails in the coffin of Bavasi's embarrassing debacle of a career. Bedard could go 18-7 and the M's still wouldn't match last year's record which any fool should be able to recognize was a fluke and a half (look no further than Runs Scored and Runs Allowed).
Why do I still pull for a team that hurts me so?
Posted by Salemdawg
10:14 PM, Jan 27, 2008
It may be that the O's don't want to include Roberts, or that they want too much.
I can live with Jones/Tillman/Sherrill, although losing Sherill is a tough pill to swallow.
Posted by Mike in LA
10:18 PM, Jan 27, 2008
Another horrible move by Bavasi. If he isn't gone by the end of next year I might as well become a D-Rays fan. BAD BAD BAD move. Tillman AND Butler? This hurts. Maybe even more than trading Dave Henderson and Spike Owen....or Lowe/Varitek. Bavasi is a Major League IDIOT.
Posted by happyfan08
10:19 PM, Jan 27, 2008
I am glad to that this is finally taking shape! Too bad the chunk-heads of USSM are to busy stinking up the joint with all the complaining.
Good luck to AJ, and I will miss George Sherrill.
Posted by Adam
10:19 PM, Jan 27, 2008
Alright, finally some pitching. It's too bad we don't have anybody to play the outfield though .. three guys with MLB experience will end up hurting the team as much as adding Bedard will help the team in my opinion.
Posted by ~Mariner4Life~
10:20 PM, Jan 27, 2008
From John Heyman at SI.com (RE: ROBERTS)
"If the Orioles do complete the Bedard trade, word is they would likely then send All-Star second baseman Brian Roberts (.290, 12 HR, 57 RBIs, 50 SBs) to the Chicago Cubs for prospects, possibly outfielder Felix Pie and pitcher Sean Gallagher. Pie batted .362 with nine home runs and 43 RBIs at Triple-A Iowa but hit just .215 in 177 at-bats with the Cubs in 2007.
However, the Roberts deal appears to be waiting on completion of the Bedard deal."
Posted by Nodiggity
10:23 PM, Jan 27, 2008
The following site has great info about the names that are being tossed around with respect to the Bedard deal
Posted by broberg
10:53 PM, Jan 27, 2008
Hey Geoff, sorry about all these guys constantly complaining about Bavasi. Anyways, I support this deal so much I don't know if I'll be able function properly as a human being while its still up in the air. People that think we aren't close enough to the playoffs should read one of your previous blogs on that subject. Bedard will be the player to put us over the playoff hump.
Posted by Duke
11:04 PM, Jan 27, 2008
Well, this is exciting. I'd hate to lose Jones but come on; it's for a top of the rotation pitcher in Bedard. I guess the M's would either sign a free agent outfielder or just bring up Balentien.
Posted by scrapiron
11:11 PM, Jan 27, 2008
Today at the FanFest Bavasi said if Jones was dealt that another deal would be in the works to bring in a right fielder. So that means he won't be using Balentien in right, and the rumors I'm hearing pretty strong now is they have Brad Wilkerson all but signed to be the M's right fielder in 2008. We'll see.
Posted by scrapiron
11:17 PM, Jan 27, 2008
If the names are true on the Mariners site of Jones, Sherril and Tillman I think this is a good deal for the Mariners. They hang on to Morrow, Clement and Truinfel in that deal and get a #1 pitcher. I like it.
Now they need to immediately start working with Bedard on an extension to keep him here for more than two years.
Oh, by the way, today at the Fanfest Bavasi said he uses the newspaper, blogs, etc. to help propogate over-evaluations of their minor league talent for other teams to see. Interesting. Us bloggers are simple tools.
Posted by sam
11:21 PM, Jan 27, 2008
Great Job Geoff!! And great news!!! I can't wait!
Posted by howie
11:26 PM, Jan 27, 2008
Boy I hope this goes down. Bedard is the real deal, I had him on my fantasy team last year and until he got injured in September, he did not disappoint. For most of the summer he led the majors in K's- and easily would've for the year had he not missed a month. Low 90's heat with a dirty curve and outstanding control. Jones has the potential to be a 5 tool player, but Bedard's prime is just around the corner...
Posted by Merrill
11:39 PM, Jan 27, 2008
Bedard himself said, in the Ottawa Sun story that Donovan linked to (thanks Donovan), that he'd be happy to be going to a team that would then presumable want to re-sign him. This indicates that not only, as per the Friday Baltimore Sun, is he open to re-signing, but that he wants to.
An extended Bedard makes this deal a no-brainer.
I don't understand why they'd want Wilkerson, given the numbers I saw in his bio and given the fact that he's supposedly a first-baseman, when they already have Jimerson, Reed, Morse, Balentien.
Does anyone have any thoughts (real thoughts, thoughtful thoughts, from someone like scrapiron or Donovan, not the predictable whining from the usual suspects) on why that could be possible?
Posted by JohnnyS
11:53 PM, Jan 27, 2008
Thank goodness that there is something to get excited about as a Seattle sports fan right now. It'll be interesting to see how the Mariners round out the outfield and bull pen. But I'm definitely excited about getting a top of the rotation pitcher.
Posted by Joel
12:55 AM, Jan 28, 2008
I don't like this deal one bit. Don't get me wrong--Bedard is an incredible pitcher--but the cost is too high.
Posted by ricofoy
5:09 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Goodbye AJ. We hardly knew ye. I'll be sitting dead center when the O's are in town.
Posted by Merrill
5:53 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Well, you naysayers may be right.
But if you can admit that the reverse is true as well, you might feel a little better.
and for f-u, I second Faceplant's recommendation, while adding the question: Is it really "taking down" a program to expose things that shouldn't have been done, or allowed, or enabled, in the first place?
I am a big Ty supporter. He will get it done the right way, if idiots like you give him enough time. The idea that three years was enough to recover from the Neuheisel debacle is ludicrous.
The Husky football program--or any student-athlete program--is about more than winning. It is, or should be, about winning the right way. I think we've all had enough of the abusive licentious wrong way, although far be it from me to speak for anyone else, especially shortsighted idiots.
Posted by bsstecks
5:54 AM, Jan 28, 2008
"News item: Orioles starting pitcher Erik Bedard told The Sun he is resigned to being traded, but would still consider signing a contract extension if the price were right." - Baltimore Sun
So, if Bedard is saying he knows he going to be traded (M's being the most obvious and likely ONLY target he can imagine)then he's essentially saying he'd consider and extension that keeps him in Seattle. Reprecussions?
Extend Bedard to 5 years with a HEALTHY contract, 2010 rotation:
whoever the heck you want to throw in cuz we've just won 4 out of every five games.
Posted by Rob
6:10 AM, Jan 28, 2008
As a O's fan I can tell you that this deal may not be as bad as some of you think. Bedard had a 3.2 ERA in Camden Yards, which of course is not Safeco. His talent behind him is nothing that compares to the M's. He will do well out there.
One other thing about Bedard, he does not like the media, very personable, but by all accounts a good teammate. I don't get the impression that he wants money or the glory of the big markets such as LA, Chi, or NY/Bos. I believe he will sign an extension shortly after arriving.
If the M's then sign Wilkerson or another bat to help in the outfield then you would have recieved Bedard and Wilkerson for Jones, Sherrill and a few guys who may or may not make it. Pitching always wins in October, and your making the right steps.
All of that being said, I would have loved to have kept Bedard if he would have agreed to an extension however he made it clear he did not want to be apart of a rebuilding team. I truly hope this works out for both parties.
Posted by Bryan in San Diego
6:31 AM, Jan 28, 2008
It's finally time to rejoice.
Posted by RogerC
6:52 AM, Jan 28, 2008
I’m sorry to be another skeptic, but being a native of Chicago and Cubs fan I sometimes cannot help myself. Erik Bedard (initials: EB) and Ernie Broglio (also EB). Bedard’s record and ERA before the trade: 13-5, 3.16; Broglio: 18-8, 2.99. Bedard will be traded for a CF (Adam Jones), and Broglio was traded to the Cubs for Lou Brock, who went on to the HOF and won two WS rings in the few years after the trade.
Just for the record, I do NOT want the Mariners to be under a curse!
Good luck, Mr. Jones.
Posted by Ryan
7:17 AM, Jan 28, 2008
This team won 88 games last year, virtually without Adam Jones and not alot of pitching. I think we will be just fine. You have to give up talent to get talent. If I was Peter Angelos, I would have asked for Jones too. Felix and Bedard are capable of 35-40 wins and 450 strikeouts if they stay healthy. I will take that anyday. THe other 3 guys in the rotation aren't bad either. Silva-Batista-Washburn as 3, 4, and 5 make it a pretty deep rotation.
Posted by Mr. X
7:36 AM, Jan 28, 2008
I'm going to wait until I hear the final details before I give my official take on this, but I do have to say that this move is very unlike Bill Bavasi. He actually "sold high" for once in his career. Adam Jones' value may never be higher, and ditto for George Sherrill if he indeed is in the package.
The unfortunate thing is that Bavasi is doing all of this to save his job. Every move he has made in the last 2 years has been a desperate move. Some of last year's desperate moves ended up working out, so now Bavasi is going "all out" to contend. It would have been better to rebuild starting 2 years ago, but Bavasi didn't take that road. That's when Adam Jones' fate was sealed. I don't think he'd be trading for Bedard after another 90 loss season.
The 10 years without a #1 starter is finally over.
Posted by faithful
7:38 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Fleeced again! The Mariners need to put a ‘no trade’ clause in Bavasi’s contract! Has this guy ever made a trade in which the M’s even came out even? Carlos is now a .300 hitting first basemen for the Tigers, Winn a solid outfielder for the Giants, Soriano on his way to being the NL’s top closer, Moyer a steady winner for the Phils, Choo and Carberra doing well for the Indians, . . . . and we have nothing to show. Only Freddy’s deal still offers some hope unless Morse is given away for nothing. Now we lose Jones, who would have made a difference for years with his speed and quickness, turning hits into outs on defense and adding runs with his ability to steal and take the extra base. Plus we lose Sherrill, the best set up man in the league to be replaced by Rhodes who will cost us who knows how many leads, and then Tillman who will be as good as Bedard in three years. Meantime we have Bedard, a solid two or three pitcher who’ll win 14-16 games. But without him how many would Morrow, or R Smith, or Baek, or whoever took that spot have won! Even Rameriz won eight! So, for Bedard who’ll be gone in two years, we pick up three or four wins that we would have won anyway with Sherrill and Jones. So the deal benefits us not at all, and probably costs us a lot. Another F- for the king of failure!
Posted by Saltherring
7:55 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Agreed, faithful. We've been fleeced too many times before, and if this one goes through, we will add it to the long list. And Geoff, I've grown weary of your blubbering over this trade and your endless statistical analyses. Go back to Toronto already.
Posted by scrapiron
7:58 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Brad Wilkerson: He's not the ideal right field replacement, but he's probably the best of what is available. The Mariners first choice was Geoff Jenkins, but the Bedard talks dragged on too long so they have to settle for Wilkerson. They were also looking at Luis Gonzalez, but I think they looked at his birth certificate and came to their senses.
Wilkerson is a 1B-OF. He's average in the outfield, but my guess is that he is just keeping the seat warm until Balentien is ready mid-season. At that point they should know whether Richie Sexson is going to hit in 2008 and can slide Wilkerson in to play first if Sexson is indeed through.
Wilkerson is mainly being looked at for his offense though. A power-hitting left-hander that has hit home runs at Safeco, so he should have a swing that is tailor made for Safeco, and the Mariners are getting desperate for some left handed hitters now. He's not going to hit for a high average or make anyone forget Buhner in right field, but he'll be an adequate replacement.
Posted by Tom
8:05 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Orioles owner Peter Angelos is notorious for scuttling even the best laid of plans at the last minute.
We can only hope. Come on Angelos, kill it!
Posted by BrianL
8:08 AM, Jan 28, 2008
So, Geoff, when this deal blows up and sets the team back a decade, will you admit that Dave Cameron was right (again)?
Posted by Resin isn't Cheating
8:13 AM, Jan 28, 2008
If healthy, Bedard could be the #1 starter the M's have lacked since Randy Johnson left. The sad part is this move wasn't necessary if Bob Fontaine Jr. would have drafted Tim Lincecum instead of Morrow in the 2006 draft. Lincecum would have allowed patience in developing Jones one more year. The other players involved when revealed will determine how high the cost was for Bedard.
Posted by ricofoy
8:18 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Wilkerson is Buhner's equal in one respect... whiffing!
Over the last 2 years, 223 K's in only 658 ab's.
With him and Sexson on the team, the fans will be enjoying some cool breezes all year long.
I can't wait!
Posted by eastcoast
8:19 AM, Jan 28, 2008
If this goes down as expected (AJ, Sherrill, Tillman, +1 for Bedard - then I say job well done BB!
Remember, at one point, there was concern that all 4 top prospects (AJ, Morrow, Clement, Wlad) would be heading to Baltimore, and now we are talking about bringing in a #1 starter (no, Felix is not a #1 starter yet) while still retaining 3/4 top prospects.
Posted by ak-rowdy
8:20 AM, Jan 28, 2008
I don't know if I was ever totally for this deal. However, I do understand the reasoning behind it and think that it is pretty good.
First, I don't want to hear anyone say anything about how great Tillman will be or anyone will be. Yeah losing Sherill and Jones stinks but they are the only two we have any idea of how they will perform in the majors. Only time will tell on the others. You may think Tillman will be as good as Bedard in three years (wasn't Felix supposed to be amazing right away, but it's taking him longer than expected). Pitching prospects are the biggest question mark in any system.
Second, I've heard a couple people say this on here and I agree. This trade is happening because Bavasi is on the Hot Seat. If there wasn't such a huge outcry against him we might not have this trade to begin with. The fact is Bavasi wouldn't last another bad season, which is what we would have for sure if we just stuck with the prospects this year. If he took that route Bavasi is gone by this next winter. Now Bavasi has tried to do something. If we do somehow make the playoffs Bavasi looks great and keeps his job, if we don't he's out of a job, which would have happened anyway. So those of you bashing this trade maybe should think that you yourself may have something to do with it.
I know I'm repeating parts of what others have said all along, but I just wanted it stated again.
Posted by scrapiron
8:35 AM, Jan 28, 2008
The sad part is that I'm sure the Mariners would love to include Jason Lane in the deal, and he'd be a definate improvement over Wilkerson, but McPhail has been so difficult to deal with that Bavasi has probably given up trying to sweeten the deal for the Mariners and is just happy to get Bedard.
Posted by scottM
8:42 AM, Jan 28, 2008
from Jeff: "Jesus criminy, I said that the extension beyond two years argument was based on "hope," on this blog, and lo and behold ScottM and Chuck are there to confirm."
from Tom: "We can only hope. Come on Angelos, kill it!"
Hope and fear. So Jeff, (1) Bedard himself states that he's open to a contract extension, (2) a little bit of research on the pitcher shows that he is NOT a Manhattan/Bean Town kind of player looking for the limelight, (3) we know he's a rural guy from the Northern climes (4) he wants to play on a competitive team, not a rebuilding one.
Why is it merely "hope" to think it's reasonable that he would sign an extension with the M's and want to stay in Seattle with its great quality of life and with a team that is showing the willingness (if not always the acumen) to invest in a winner.
Speaking of acumen, it is HOPE to think that Bavasi is savvy enough to have already talked with Bedard's agent to smooth the way for an immediate extension for the M's and Bedard to ink soon after this deal with the O's is finalized. It is HOPE to say that Bedard will stay healthy (or that Jones will live up to his well-hyped potential).
It isn't hope that shows how great Bedard pitched last year, ESPECIALLY, against the Yankees and the BoSox. It isn't hope that says that this guy was probably second or third on the Cy Young candidate list. It isn't hope to say that Adam Jones only batted .230 and hit two home runs with the M's when he had his big opportunity in the show.
When we get Bedard signed for an extension, I predict this will go down as the best deal in Mariner history, next to the one that brought us Randy Johnson, the last great ace in this team's history. Thinking we can get a proven player of this caliber for nothing, or that we should wait until 2010 until we're competitive, is defeatist. Next to getting Santana--which wasn't going to happen-- this is about as good as we can HOPE for.
Posted by scottM
8:45 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Hey, what if the M's are only flying Adam Jones to Baltimore to throw GEOFF off his tracks and Bavasi is actually on the verge of a big package deal with the Twins to sign Santana instead.
Now that's the kind of unfounded HOPE you're talking about, Jeff.
Posted by Z-BO
8:45 AM, Jan 28, 2008
All you USS Mariner fans need to go somewhere else if you're going to be pissed off. Lets see if we can keep the miserable, pessimistic fans over there and the fans who enjoy being mariners fans can stay on Geoff's site. Just a suggestion, but I sure do get tired of everyone worshipping everything Dave Cameron says. You know, he has been wrong before, quite often actually.
Posted by Big Ebu
8:56 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Thanks for the blog updates on this story. I am out of town this weekend and have no TV but have my internet access! I guess I would consider myself more on the “Pro-Trade” side of the blogosphere but this is still dependent on what the “other” names ultimately are and how Bavasi ends up filling up the hole left in the outfield. I do think that defense is important and a Ibanez-Ichiro-Wlad outfield doesn’t seem particularly strong to me. I don’t know much about Wilkerson and can’t remember seeing him play much but I question whether he is that much of an improvement over Wlad on defense. I do like that fact that he is left-handed and seems to have some power in his bat.
Is there any truth to the Jason Bay rumors that I have seen mentioned on other blog posts?
Posted by maus
8:56 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Good job getting breaking the news! Do think this will impact your Mariner access since I'm sure the front office was disappointed it got out? I hope not.
Do you think there is any chance the M's might try for Ken Griffey Jr? I bet he could be had for 1 or 2 mid level prospects. He's got lh power, can play right for a year or 2 and then retire as an M as a dh. He'd sell a ton of tickets. Thoughts??
Posted by Mark
9:02 AM, Jan 28, 2008
I am a big Mariners fan (from the west coast) who has been living in Baltimore for the past four years. I get to about 10 - 15 games a year at Camden Yards. All I can say is that if the Mariners can get Bedard, DO IT. He gives a quality start every time out, and at Safeco, I think he will be dominant.
Posted by scrapiron
9:13 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Wilkerson is only going to sign a one-year deal so he is not a long-term replacement. And Balentien is better defensively than Wilkerson right now. So why not put Balentien in right field now?
In 2006 Balentien hit .230 with 140 strikeouts in 444 at bats. In 2007 he decreased his strikeout rate and increased his prospect status by hitting .291 with only 105 strikeouts in 477 at bats. But just when it looked like he had increased his contact rate and was ready for the next level, he goes down to the Venezuelan winter leagues and hits .191 with 27 strikeouts in 110 at bats. A step backwards, and shows he's not quite ready for the majors just yet.
Posted by Jeff
9:21 AM, Jan 28, 2008
ScottM, I have never mentioned a single post about the rumors that this deal will fall through,so Geoff Baker's post about fans chilling is not directed at me.
The "hope" that I'm talking about is how you and others keep blathering on that this idea that somehow the M's will have this "inside track" to ink Bedard to an extension to make this deal a better one, is just that, hope. That is why making this deal sound better than it is will probably fall on deaf ears for those of us who didn't want the deal to go down. If Bavasi included a 48 hour window to extend Bedard, I probably would shift my position on the trade quite a bit.
If you are extrapolating a new theory based upon that feeling of hope, that is great, that is your perogative, just don't include my name in it. Stick to the context of what I'm talking about if you are responding to comments that I've made in this blog. Thank you for your cooperation.
Posted by jon
9:22 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Why not think about Sammy Sosa for Right Field?
Posted by Faceplant
9:36 AM, Jan 28, 2008
"Too bad the chunk-heads of USSM are to busy stinking up the joint with all the complaining."
God forbid they don't think exactly like you do!
"Over the last 2 years, 223 K's in only 658 ab's.
With him and Sexson on the team, the fans will be enjoying some cool breezes all year long."
LOL! That's exactly what I was thinking. If fans like Richie Sexson they are going to LOVE Brad Wilkerson.
"You may think Tillman will be as good as Bedard in three years (wasn't Felix supposed to be amazing right away, but it's taking him longer than expected). Pitching prospects are the biggest question mark in any system."
That isn't the way it works. Tillman isn't just some throw in. He's a legit prospect, and prospects like Tillman don't just grow on trees. But I'd be more upset if Triunfel was included.
Posted by scottM
9:48 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Jeff, (I have no idea who GEOFF is telling to chill out), but you called me out by name, so it's certainly my place to respond in kind by giving you reasons why the idea of an extension for Bedard is more than "blathering" (your newest take) or mere "hope". Since I have no access to the M's front office, I must rely on inference and the information that I'm able to gather.
Interestingly, this set of data from which I draw my "hope" is not unlike how GEOFF has stuck his neck out in breaking the story of this trade. The entire news story is based on inferences drawn from statements by Adam Jones, not on any concrete information from either the M's or O's front offices. I looked at something that Bedard said.
I actually applaud GEOFF for using such strong inferences to put together a story that, while speculative, gives a pretty strong indication that a deal is about to be finalized. Are you going to accuse him of relying on "hope" to get this scoop? Do you consider his approach simply "blathering"?
Of course, Bavasi has done much to erode our confidence in him as a GM, but I would be shocked if he hasn't, via one route or another, explored the possibility and likelihood that Bedard will extend with the M's. That's one place where you can call me hopeful.
I look forward to your "blathering" response.
Posted by Poopyhead
10:03 AM, Jan 28, 2008
U r all douchebags and know nothing about baseball. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Jeff
10:43 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Okay ScottM, here's my blathering response. The fact is, Bedard is going to be with us for two years, that is great, he's a great player. Is it personally worth it to me that the two years is worth the alleged package (with Jones especially totalling 6 years)? No. Why? Because in my opinion this team needs a lot more than Bedard to have a chance at the trophy, and I want a deep strong team that has a chance for a world championship, and for the M's to build that world championship team, they will need Bedard for longer than two years as they acquire all the pieces.
Beyond the two years, unless he or Bedard's agent publicly says he is open to an extension, I will stick to the facts, which are that he is here for two years, then he's likely gone.
For many of those of us who didn't like the trade, that is the part of the argument that hasn't been answered by you, Geoff Baker, and others whose arguments on the extension issue are still little more than hope. That's fine. I've stated in another post that the analysis done by Adam, Faceplant, etc isn't convincing the pro trade crowd. That's obvious. At the same time, the pro trade crowd has not been very convincing that this is a good trade. That's life. You guys win because barring a sudden turn, Bavasi agrees with your side.
I have not seen an extension statement from Bedard or his agent. If he has made the statement, that's great, that makes this trade much more palatable, and as a blogger, I wouldn't be so negative about the trade. I suspect you would see that from many anti traders (although not all).
I respect your optimism, but it's hard for me to take it seriously until I read or hear of it from the horses mouth. It doesn't matter anyway because my opinion means zero as far as the M's go.
But as a fan, I personally have to stick to the facts. Optimism doesn't work for me like it works for you. For example, George Bush and the current fed make me a lot of money. If I was optimistic about this bipartisan economic package, I would reshift my investments from their current position, but for me, I choose to deal with facts. And the facts make me a lot of money now, and I bet they make me a lot of money in the future.
Not that any of this matters, baseball or money, in a baseball blog...
There's my blather...but it's also the last I will speak of it. The deal is essentially done, and I'm not going to debate this back and forth since the deal is pretty much done. I will root for Bedard while he is here, and cheer for Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, Sherrill, and whoever else from afar...
Posted by Donovan
10:53 AM, Jan 28, 2008
This is a departure, but ESPN.com has a live chat going on right now debating the relative merits of Putz and Papelbon. If you need a break from the Bedard-Jones cliffhanger, check it out:
Posted by Donovan
11:00 AM, Jan 28, 2008
Ok, back to Jones-Bedard. This just popped up on ESPN.com:
The cautions about Angelos are not alarmist. The man would cut off his own nose to spite his face, and has done so many times, to the chagrin of O's fans. Anything is possible with him at the table.
Posted by Lance
11:41 AM, Jan 28, 2008
If Sherrill goes in this deal the M's may as well get O's situational lefty Jamie Walker along with Bedard. The O's will have no use for him and at $3 mil.+, I believe, especially in their rebuilding process. Otherwise, they'd have to use a kid like EO or Cesar Jimenez, or even RRS, for that job.
Apparantly, money is no object for the M's anymore.
Posted by Erik Bedard
8:39 PM, Jan 29, 2008
Fuck the Seattle Mariners!!!!!!!
Posted by Adam Jones
9:55 AM, Jan 30, 2008
I'm going to be an Oriole! I'm so happy I don't have to play in the shithole known as Safeco Field. Camden Yards is so much better!
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