Mariners Blog
Geoff Baker covers the Mariners for The Seattle Times. He provides daily coverage of the team throughout spring training, and during the season.
December 12, 2007 10:27 AM
Lots of action this morning
Posted by Geoff Baker
UPDATE (2:36 p.m.): Hiroki Kuroda has now stepped into the fray to refute those reports from Japan that he was about to sign with the Dodgers. Here is a link to a story in the East Valley Tribune, from Arizona. Lest we forget, the Diamondbacks are still vying for Kuroda, along with the Mariners, Dodgers and Royals. Kuroda left Tokyo for Los Angeles to meet with agent Steve Hilliard, who is to apprise him of where things stand.
"I still haven't narrowed down which team I will play for," Kuroda told Japanese news outlets before leaving from Narita airport in Tokyo. "My agent is in Los Angeles, so I don't know anything until I get there and meet him."
10:27 a.m.: A big trade by the Baltimore Orioles and Houston Astros, in which shortstop Miguel Tejada is off to Houston in exchange for five players. More on that in a moment...
Still no word on who free-agent pitcher Hiroki Kuroda is going to choose. Yes, it's true that he flew from Tokyo to Los Angeles last night. But it's important to keep in mind that his agent, Steve Hilliard, is currently in California weighing several different offers. Kuroda flying to LA doesn't necessarily mean he's going to sign there. Just that his agent wants him by his side when the final choices have to be made. After that, it's a short hop on a smaller plane to Seattle -- or anywhere else if the Dodgers don't win out.
Could it be that Kuroda is leaning towards the Dodgers? Sure, it could be. But when I got off the phone last night, I'd been assured backwards and forwards that the reports coming out of Japan were not accurate. I wouldn't have written what I did so emphatically if I didn't trust in who I was talking to. Did I think, in the middle of the night, that I was about to get burned? Once or twice. It happens. But we are heading towards the middle of the day and nothing has been announced, so I will trust in what I heard and assume Kuroda is still up for grabs.
Now, if he hammers out a deal in the next few hours and it gets announced at 4 p.m.? Or at 9 a.m. tomorrow? Nothing I can do about it and I guess those initial Japanese reports would be "accurate". But I'm just trying to pass along the best information (the best I can get) to you. It goes a little deeper than doing a "Google" search for Japanese media outlets on my computer, trust me. You all deserve better. When we have real news to bring you, like anyone close to these talks actually confirming a deal is done, or about to get done, you'll get a story in our paper and a blog entry.
On to Tejada, it's not yet clear how this morning's trade impacts the Mariners in their pursuit of Erik Bedard. On at least one front, they come out OK, since we now know the O's are not going to package Bedard and Tejada together.
Baltimore picks up outfielder Luke Scott, pitchers Matt Albers, Troy Patton and Dennis Sarfate, and third base prospect Michael Costanzo. Scott, Patton and Sarfate should all be on the team in April, possibly Albers as well. Scott gives the team a lefty outfield bat it had been looking for.
Scott packs some punch, but I don't see this deal precluding the Orioles from obtaining Adam Jones in a Bedard trade. The O's need more than one outfield bat to join right fielder Nick Markakis. Albers and Patton are both getting their feet wet as starting pitchers in the majors, while Sarfate is a starter, but has been used strictly in relief in two major league stints. He's been called a "one-pitch" pitcher with a blazing fastball, which could help some of Baltimore's late-inning relief needs. But he isn't the total relief answer. In all, I'd say the O's are still in the market for some strong Bedard returns to help them out next season. They did OK in this deal, with Costanzo a well-regarded prospect and Patton coming off his rookie season as a 21-year-old.
Several of you have been asking why the M's didn't go after Kosuke Fukodome to play in left field. Here's my best guess as to why. A $48-million package to fill a position the M's already have a 100-RBI guy at seems a tad excessive. If the Mariners weren't already looking to sink eight figures into upgrading their starting rotation, I'd feel differently. But there is a point where you have to say "enough's enough" and keep that wallet closed. Otherwise, you wind up backloaded into a bunch of contracts that paralyze you going forwards. Dropping nearly $50 million to bolster outfield defense at one position seems like too much for the M's to contemplate. Especially when pitching has to be this team's priority.
Posted by Patrick F.
11:23 AM, Dec 12, 2007
To me the Tejada trade signals that the M's have a realistic shot at getting Bedard. Kuroda is really taking his time to decide where he will play, so hopefully there will be some closure to that soon.
After hearing what Fukudome got I'm glad the M's opted not to sign him. Pitching is where the big bucks must be thrown.
Geoff, I can't wait to hear some good news of signing or trade on the Mariners front. Keep up the good work.
Posted by blazers91
11:23 AM, Dec 12, 2007
I just don't understand what everyone is saying about already having enough players in the outfield. If we trade Adam Jones to get Bedard, we have NOONE in the outfield alongside Ichiro. Raul should NOT be an everyday outfielder. Even if we KEEP Jones, playing Fukodome in the outfield allows Raul to DH and our no-pop DH to be a pinch hitter.
And, if we do trade Jones, we have an even more PRESSING NEED for another outfield bat. Fukodome would be the perfect complement to a Bedard signing, especially if we end up with money left because Kuroda takes the LA offer.
Why do we always have to REACT to what other people do instead of PROACTIVELY improving our team?
Posted by blazers91
11:23 AM, Dec 12, 2007
I just don't understand what everyone is saying about already having enough players in the outfield. If we trade Adam Jones to get Bedard, we have NOONE in the outfield alongside Ichiro. Raul should NOT be an everyday outfielder. Even if we KEEP Jones, playing Fukodome in the outfield allows Raul to DH and our no-pop DH to be a pinch hitter.
And, if we do trade Jones, we have an even more PRESSING NEED for another outfield bat. Fukodome would be the perfect complement to a Bedard signing, especially if we end up with money left because Kuroda takes the LA offer.
Why do we always have to REACT to what other people do instead of PROACTIVELY improving our team?
Posted by DT
11:32 AM, Dec 12, 2007
The problem with Rauuuul DHing is that he has supposedly resisted it, as he resisted becoming a platoon player. Those are the biggest knocks against him, and the tolerance of this from the vets is the biggest knock on the M's FO and coaching staff. If Rauuul still does not want to DH, we should be ready to move on, either a July trade if were sellers, or letting him walk if we contend again.
Posted by Resin isn't Cheating
11:43 AM, Dec 12, 2007
Two words to answer your question blazers91......Wladimir Balentien.
Posted by eastcoast
11:48 AM, Dec 12, 2007
Re: the Tejada trade, my first thoughts were:
If the O's received 5 minor leaguers for Tejada (three of whom Goeff states would be on the opening day roster), what is their asking price for Bedard? I still believe that there will no Bedard unless we dramatically overpay.
As for Kuroda, I find myself indifferent to signing/not signing him. He may be the best FA pitcher available, but I'm not sure that's saying a whole lot this year. He is still a HUGE unknown.
The next few days should be interesting. We'll find out about HoRam and Broussard, and perhaps whether or not the M's are interested in guys like Prior, etc.
Posted by GeoW
11:55 AM, Dec 12, 2007
Geoff - Thank you for keeping the blog up to the minute. This is where I go first for the latest update, so I appreciate having my faith reinforced.
Some time could you comment on Geoff Jenkins? Is this left-handed hitter a realistic addition to the M's outfield, especially if Jones is traded? As I recall, he's from the Pacific NW.
Posted by ScottM
11:57 AM, Dec 12, 2007
GEOFF, if either of the Bedard or Kuroda deals fall through, is Carlos Silva, the free agent from the Twins, next on the M's radar list?
Or, is Bavasi going to surprise the world and pull off a deal for Santana? It's sure been quiet on that front.
Posted by Chris from Bothell
12:05 PM, Dec 12, 2007
Geoff - Wasn't looking for Fukudome in left, was thinking right, to replace Guillen / Jones. Left would be alright if Raul was going to DH, but the M's seem content with their logjam at DH in Vidro.
And RiC - I don't think they're going to give Wlad a shot in right this season; they were tentative as hell giving AJ any playing time, and from all accounts he's got a lot more upside than Wlad. I'm guessing Wlad is going to be the DR (Designated Rookie) this year. Hope he's learned how to say "I'm just learning so much" and "I'm just going to keep my eyes open" and "I'm just happy to be here".
Posted by ricofoy
12:32 PM, Dec 12, 2007
But if Fukudome becomes, as scouts expect, another Raul Ibanez......
That's why the M's didn't go after Fukudome. Isn't one enough?
Posted by Resin isn't Cheating
1:12 PM, Dec 12, 2007
Under normal circumstances you are right on the money Chris. But if Jones is dealt, Balentien could have a shot at it if he impresses in the spring. That's how Morrow got a chance. Besides Wladimir was extremely impressive in his first season at the AAA level. He deserved recognition.
Eastcoast-I've watched Patton and Albers pitch and they are boderline average Major League pitchers leaning towards going back to the minors for good. Luke is nothing special, see: Ben Broussard. I believe the O's got hosed in that deal. Tejada is a perrenial All-Star player. If the Yankees traded Jeter they would get far more than what the O's got.
Posted by Frankie
1:14 PM, Dec 12, 2007
I think Rick White should come back and be our #5 starter.........
(sarcasm)
Posted by Frankie
1:19 PM, Dec 12, 2007
111 days until....
RANGERS @ MARINERS
!!!!!
Posted by Lance
1:53 PM, Dec 12, 2007
I, too, think MacPhail made a real coup getting five good young players for a guy who is on the downside of his career. I'm also surprised the 'stros dealt for Tejada before knowing if he'll be included in the Mitchell report.
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I'm also sure "Trader Andy" is going to hold out for an even much better deal for Bedard, or simply keep him for another year and do this all over again next winter, assuming his value will be as high as it is now.
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Which brings us to Carlos Silva. I think he'd be a nice fit into our rotation. He'd benefit a lot switching from the Homerdome to Safeco, and having Ichiro in CF and a surer throwing Yuni at SS. If we can just score a decent amout of runs for him he could be a solid winner here.
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The price is going to be what it's going to be. That's the market. But, I'd rather do that than pay for a risky 33-year old unproven import, or for a guy that'll take away most of your MLR prospects and then some, and has a big history with injuries. In the end you'll get a quality pitcher who's done it before and recently, without losing anything. That's where I'd turn.
Posted by Tictac
1:54 PM, Dec 12, 2007
Gotta love Wladimir and his .198 batting average down in Venezuela. What's up with that?
Posted by M's Defender
2:14 PM, Dec 12, 2007
Okay this trade of Tejada to the Astros puts an end to any ideas of trying to package him with Bedard.
Let's hope Bavasi has the sense to tell Baltimore they need to be more reasonable as to their asking price for Bedard.
However I would suggest if they offer to include Brian Roberts I can see maybe parting with Jones but if it's Bedard alone no way.
As to Kuroda situation I just don't understand why other than Bavasi somehow opened mouth and inserted foot again.
Unless Shiggy Hawagawa(former M) and the other advisor have convinced him that Seattle tho a richer contract is bad idea and LA is bed of roses.
ScottM I have suggested in several posts both here,on the PI blog,and on the M's Forum.
That while still pursuing a trade/trades for pitching if the deal failed to aquire Kuroda that the M's should do the following:
Sweeten the Kuroda offer with another year and add about another 7 to 9 mil to it and offer it to P Carlos Silva 29.
Solid stinker given to high GB to FB ratio would benefit alot from Safeco and Stottlemyre.
As to the players who must be tendered or nontendered today:
Sherrill - yes
Broussard - yes
Parrish - NO
HoRam - Hell NO
Sherrill because of his value as LHB specialist/LH setup for Putz.
Broussard because of value as trade bait and as solid replacement for Sexson if traded or DFAed for repeat of last year.
The other two Parrish (panic deal) and HoRam to hopefully close the book another very bad trade by Bonehead.
Posted by Resin isn't Cheating
2:37 PM, Dec 12, 2007
VZL stats are meaningless, good or bad. It's basically an instructional league. The triple-A level was much more harder than pitching in Venezuela. Only Bill Bavasi values performances in winter ball.
Posted by Z
3:09 PM, Dec 12, 2007
Nobody announces this kind of decision in the aiport.
Posted by MyOhMy
3:57 PM, Dec 12, 2007
Blazers91 ... you said it perfectly! The M's FO is NOT proactive! They are NOT doing anything to reshape this team. It's one high priced band-aid after another.
It will be interesting, to say the least, to see their thinking on who will be tendered/non-tendered tonight. They already screwed the pooch by not offering Guillen arbitration ...
Posted by ScottM
4:06 PM, Dec 12, 2007
To M's Defender. I was mentioning Carlos Santana mid-season last year in this blog. Not TOR, but a solid middle rotation guy, IMHO. Another Venezuelan to complement Felix.
I always find it interesting how we worry about how much this player or that player might cost when talking trade. Yet, we never know what sort of budget the GM is working with. For example, if we can land Carlos Santana and Kuroda for cash, but with Bedard we need to both pay big money AND lose Jones/Clement/Morrow, etc., then the cost to the M's competitiveness is significantly greater. The ifs with Bedard are simple: will he perform as a legitimate TOR guy, and will he stay healthy.
I just hope that Bill Bavasi is done playing beachball in the Dominican Republic and is back home and ready to deal. This is your window of opportunity, Bill!
Posted by ScottM
4:08 PM, Dec 12, 2007
Oops, I meant Carlos Silva, not the rock star!!
Posted by Dr.Naka
4:51 PM, Dec 12, 2007
Baker-san.
You are right that Kuroda has not signed yet, but his mind is going to Dogers.
I like your blog but you should know more about Japanese cultur.
"Honne" and "Tatemae".
BTW Hani Masayoshi is reporting that the Ms made a fatal error regarding Kurada at the beginning. Do you have any information about it?
Posted by Ken
5:13 PM, Dec 12, 2007
Dr. Naka...the fatal error was probably allowing Bill Bavasi to speak. He's not a very intelligent man, and he is not a very good GM.
By the way, can we NOT trade away Brandon Morrow AND Adam Jones for a guy who may never reach the potential that Morrow will reach himself? Morrow's numbers are nearly as good as Bedard's, and this was his first year in the show. I might consider a trade for Bedard for one or the other, but sending them both to Baltimore for an older guy doesn't make much sense to me.
Posted by Fish
5:41 PM, Dec 12, 2007
what about Noah Lowry from the Giants. He would be cheaper than Bedard and we could probably get rid of Sexson that way.
Posted by joe
5:44 PM, Dec 12, 2007
Ain't it fun...watching all the other teams get better, while we sit on our hands?
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Man I for one am damn envious of The Angels owner. That guy cares. The fans said they wanted lower beer prices? He lowers beer prices. The fans wanted Vlad Guerrero? He gets Vlad. The Angels need a starter, he gets Garland. The Angels need a CFer? He gets Hunter.
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BavASSi and company couldn't sell a drink to a drunk...
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Funny thing is me and all that I know, that had season tix last year, are NOT renewing, so maybe when the fan base drifts away, this FO will do something productive, but I doubt it. Oh well
Feliz Navidad!
Posted by joe
5:46 PM, Dec 12, 2007
Maybe they want to move the Mariners to Oklahoma, that is why they ain't doin/done jack...
Posted by Ed
6:16 PM, Dec 12, 2007
How cute....BavASSi. What are you, 12?
The Mariners have, according to reports, the best contract offer, and he's sitting his hands? What's he suppose to do, kidnap him and force him to sign.
I just love kind of logic when piecing together these things.
Posted by Mr. X
7:57 PM, Dec 12, 2007
What? You mean that Kuroda has actually said with his own mouth that he hasn't decided yet? But I thought that all of these infallable Japanese sources, who are incapable of putting out false reports, were 100% positive that he had already decided on the Dodgers a couple of days ago. Since both Kuroda and these sources are incapable of lying, becuase of their heritage and culture (per racist, forgettable blogger), I'll have to conclude that George Bush is to blame. LOL
Posted by Ben
8:15 PM, Dec 12, 2007
First of all, for those of you dissing on the Mariners about not sweetening the deal there's a few things you should know before you go shooting your mouth off.
1)Kuroda has specifically asked for a 3-year deal. He wants the option to be able to go back and pitch in Japan if he wishes to do so. But he would like to find out first before hand.
2)When it gets down to the nitty gritty, money talks! The M's, who are willing to overpay for the services of a projected #4 pitcher have the best offer on the table. And would be smart not to go too much more. Silva could be had for roughly about the same money, and would probably be the better deal.
3)Somebody said that Bavasi doesn't know how to negotiate with the Japanese. Well I guess negotiating an extension with Ichiro, and bringing Johjima didn't have anything to do with Bavasi at all. Whatever!
4)It certainly helps when the agent for the free agent pitcher has close inside ties to the competition. Especially when the same offer is practically on the table.
Kuroda is no where near worth this much of a gamble on. But who knows, he may surprise everyone with that 33-year old foreign arm of his.
Posted by Patrick F.
8:58 PM, Dec 12, 2007
Mark Prior is a free agent. Is there any possibility the Mariners consider signing him to an incentive laden deal? He could be a good fall back option, if the team is unable to sign Kuroda. I think, if healthy, a pitcher like Prior is worth the risk.
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Posted by Resin isn't Cheating
11:17 AM, Dec 12, 2007
It's refreshing to hear someone who cares about releasing accurate information and not quoting anonymous scouts or directors. I have been let down several times by the insider blogs telling us that Hargrove was fired and that Bavasi was gone, the new pitching coach isn't Stottlemeyer, etc.
Geoff any word on any possible other pitching targets, or is Bavasi locked in on Bedard?