Any reason why Yuni seems locked into the #9 spot in the lineup? Yesterday was the first day in a long time that he was moved up, and today (after a GW hit, no less) he's batting 9th again, behind Wee Willie? Is this a 'second leadoff hitter' type of thing, or is it just general John McCluelessness?

GEOFF, I agree with your assessment that it would be worth trading Adam Jones and a bit more enticement to obtain a Cy Young caliber pitcher such as Santana. How close is Belentien to Jones as a major league prospect? They both hit about the same in Tacoma, but does he have the range and arm that AJ does? How does Wlad's range and arm compare to Ibanez's?

I also agree that we don't part with AJ, unless the upside is a pretty sure bet, such as with Santana.

Why is it that Wlad hits an impressive 2 RBI double and we haven't seen him since?

Thanks for the blog today Geoff. I look forward to it daily here in Hawaii. I've thought a lot recently about the Mariners and their September swoon and the question you asked before about a contender late or a fade out early. I think deep down any real baseball fan will tell you the emotional drain for a committment to your team is by far the at the highest levels in baseball. I just want to see the Mariners win. To see them jump on the mound yesterday still brings to mind "What if?". Ever since 1995 I learned not to give up on a team I think can't pull through. Do I like their chances? Until this team is "mathmatically" eliminated I always like their chances.

On another note: Did anyone else notice that "Cubby" posts that obnoxious comment in the beginning about Geoff's comments with the million dollar words yet couldn't spell most anything else right the rest of the way? Curious...

Can someone let McLaren know were not going to the playoffs, and would like to see some prospects? Don't think we will wreck any "chemistry" at this point.

I love Adam, and wish he'd play everyday, but would trade him and half our minor league teams for Santana yesterday.

For the record, the Yankees lost...we can actually pick up a game with a win tonight. As I said last night, four Mariners wins, four Yankees losses and the lead is cut to 2. It could happen...

Geoff, sorry.. i guess i'm one who has disappeared. Can you blame me though? I'm tired of watching this team, to be honest. Night in, night out.. they throw out the same stupid lineup, and they just aren't exciting. The offense isn't the problem, i understand.. but I would certainly turn on the game if they played someone that I actually want to see. Such as.. Adam Jones. But no.. even though they are out of it(they won't admit it).. they still don't play the young guys. Instead, I have to watch terrible pitching mixed in with.. well.. the same guys who have lost 15 of 18 games. Forget it. There is no more September excitement. No "playoff" atmosphere that McL seems to speak of. Basically.. there is NO reason to watch the team.. because they still refuse to play the guys that aren't tired, aren't overworked, and incredibly excited to be up in the BIGS. And what do we get in the off-season? Bavasi. great... there goes any optimism i might have. Oh.. and as I type.. Ichiro makes a TERRIBLE throw to home so they can't get the guy at home. (sigh...)

Softy on KJR had a segment today on why the M's aren't playing the "kids" (AJ, etc.) more, e.g., not that we are out of it.

Is it possible that we are mounting one last stand; that is, are only hope comes down to sweeping TB in 4, and Boston can sweep NY in 3, that will reduce their lead by 3.5 games correct (making us only 2.5 back with 14 games to play -- very do-able, right!?!)

So, the 2 conditions are: 1) we must sweep the TB series, and 2) Boston must sweep the NY series.

If the M's or Boston lose even 1 game, we NEED to start playing the kids, right?

McLaren must be saving Jones for a late inning walk off HR.

as bad as the m's are playing.. i don't see how it's even a possibility. I will be the very first to bash myself if wrong.. but come on.. this is the M's we are talking about.. the "tired" old team... and as I type this.. Ichiro swings at a 86 MPH pitch striking out. That's not the ichiro I know.. and you can easily see he's mailed it in for the season.

Sorry for my broken English (my language professor would be very disappointed, but I have my 3 year old yelling in my ear, and my 4 mos. old in my lap trying to type with 1 hand), but you all get my point, right?

Again, poor English, I am trying to type with one hand while my 4 mos. old sits in my lap. (He's not that gifted, yet.)

No, could you retype that entire thing with proper English?

Joe, I can't understand why your little tyke is helping with the editing..

OK, here I go again on my own (props to Whitesnake):

Softy on KJR had a segment today on why the M's aren't playing the "kids" (i.e. "AJ," Vladimir, etc.) more now that we are "out of it."

Is it possible that we are mounting one last stand?

That is, "our" only hope is if (1) the M's sweep TB in 4 and (2) Boston sweeps NY in 3. That series of events will reduce the Yankees lead by 3.5 games, correct? (That will also make us 2.5 games back with 14 games to play, which is very do-able, right!?!) [Do-able is a word, right?]

So, the 2 conditions are: 1) we must sweep the TB series, and 2) Boston must sweep the NY series.

If the M's or Red Sox lose even one (1) game, we NEED to start playing the kids, right?

[No applause necessary!]

Great blog, Geoff...even though your earlier scoop about the likelyhood of Bavidiot staying put almost put me off my post-office beer tonight (notice I said ALMOST ;-) ). What the H-E-double hockey sticks will it take to get rid of this dreadful, incompetent, oxygen-stealing waste of skin? I've already started hoping the M's get defeated in every remaining game...now it looks like the only thing the FO will understand is 35,000 empty seats on Opening Day 2008. And maybe even THAT won't help them grasp reality...

wow joe. now it makes sense!

Nooooooooooooooooooooo.................not again! Please, get a real pitcher in there for christ sake. I really did like Weaver there for a bit since it had seemed like he had turned it around, but now, what the heck is his problem?

OK. It just occurred to me (while I've been typing and re-typing scenarios that will get us to the play-offs) that WE ARE GETTING WAXED!

Put in the kids now please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For all that don't like Sexson ( i am one) what about replacing him with the Pena the guy playing for the D-Rays. 30 something HR and a much better average

Finally Mclaren is making some good moves. He also made some very good moves near the end of yesterday's games. Sometimes I wonder if someone else was telling him what to do before and now he is doing his own thing. But then again maybe it is the opposite way.

OK, that's it, time to start drinking!

Maui Mariner, did you grow up in Burien? Just curious.

Glad the team is feeding off yesterday's victory, what with the Yanks and Angels losing tonight...I know, I know, it doesn't matter...but what a pathetic response.

Like I was saying, if the M's can salvage 1 game per series against their remaining opponents (TB, OAK, LA/ANA, CLE, and TEX), then we can celebrate a .500 season.

Burien? What's Burien got to do with it? No sir. Do you know someone on Maui that is from Burien?

Yeah. My best friend lives there now. He's a huge M's fan.

Sorry brah, not me but it's all good. Tell him cheers for me.

Geoff - following on from your 'what to do next year' theme. Pitching certainly is needed, but this team needs to look at the Angels and copy their style. They don't have big names, they have speed, discipline at the plate, are prepared to walk and a couple of big bats.

The M's have some speed and are supposed to have a couple of big bats, but don't have discipline. This free swinging aggressive approach for the most part gets us killed.

Vidro has been a great example of how those guys at the top and bottom of the order should approach their at-bats more often.

Thoughts?

It's all good. I still haven't made it over there yet to visit. Too expensive.

I agree that we should trade a top prospect for Santana, so long as we sign Guillen to a contract extension. Many other teams are strapped for starting pitching, and the free agent market will be thin and expensive. A gutsy winner like Santana would likely be a good influence on Felix.

On a somewhat related note, can ANYONE justify trotting Weaver and Ramirez out to the mound to get pounded start after start? Could we possibly be worse off starting some minor league pitchers? This strategy is boring, as someone mentioned above, and it's driving away fans. I would buy a ticket to see an exciting minor league starter, but I will not pay good money to watch another frustrating loss by Weavor or Ramirez.

Just great....Bavasi will be back to screw up next years team, and he will probably keep McLaren as well. Two toadies instead of just one.

They are obviously exhausted after that celebration of nothing last night. It happened last time as well.


In a new SI Players Poll, Seattle ranked 4th among MLB players when asked which was their favorite road trip. No real reason was given, so I'll have to assume it's because it's been like a home game for so many visiting teams (Red Sox, etc).

Can we package Weaver, HoRam and Sexson to an NL team (maybe the Pirates) for a quality pitcher, like maybe Tom Gorzelanny (14-7, 3.45 ERA.)

Sorry Geoff, you left one bad GM to find and even worse GM here in Seattle. At least you didn't arrive in 2001 and see with your own eyes how one GM could display so much incompetence upon his arrival. The trade of Ramon Santiago for All-Star Carlos Guillen was a good precursor of future madness.

The focus shouldn't be acquiring starting pitching via free agency. It should be firing John McLaren and Bill Bavasi at season's end.

In a perfect world, seeing Howard Lincoln step-down as CEO and Chuck Armstrong retire would save the franchise.

You really should come over and visit, quite the place. It IS rather expensive, like you say. My trips over to the mainland do get expensive. This last time over I went to a M's vs. Rangers game and stayed at the Silver Cloud, now that was really cool, especially for my 3.5 yr old granddaughter and 1.5 yr old granddaughter along with my daughters and a sweetie. It was a fun experience indeed.
OK, now that's it, I am going to go drinking at the local pool bar.
a hui hou

Geoff--A lot of us were against trading top prospects at the deadline only because there was nobody on the market that was worth what they'd cost in a trade. For that matter, last winter's highly paid free agent crop has largely been a huge disappointment. In hindsight, I'm thrilled that the M's didn't pick any of them up.

Now Santana? That's another story. Given his well publicized disatisfaction with the Twins, the GM leaving (possibly over budget issues), and the Twins nose for a deal; I'd "make them an offer they can't refuse." Put AJ, Morrow and one each AA and A prospects on the table. Yeah, I love AJ, but outfielders are easier to find than pitchers, let alone pitchers of Santana's caliber. And since they're likely losing Hunter, they have a need. Morrow has done fantastically well for being thrown into the majors so soon, but we don't know if he'll ever make it as a starter. Right now he doesn't have enough pitches to do it and it will be at least a couple of years before he could possibly be ready for the rotation. I would hold on to Balentien, because I think Raul is hitting the end of his string as an outfielder. But Clement, if we had to, I'd be ok with throwing in. The trick is to hit early and make an overwhelming offer.

Of course, it won't happen. This is the Mariners, eh?

As perhaps the charter member of the "Free Adam Jones" club, I would trade AJ for Santana, with a caveat. I'd want a 72-hour window for contract negotiations. If I could get a deal done, I'd trade Jones and Triunfel plus another prospect (Tillman?) for Santana. He's that good, and we'd become the favorites in the AL West.

But I wouldn't do any deal for Santana if he didn't sign an extension beforehand.

Given the paucity of decent FA starters, we have to try to improve the rotation via trade. Here's a name for you: Wandy Rodriguez. He came into his own this year. Had a great K/9 rate, posted a very good walk rate, and did well in Minute Maid Park. He's tough on lefties, is relatively young, and would fit well in Safeco. I'd give up Balentien for him.

After Rodriguez, I'd hope and pray that Brandon Morrow develops like crazy in the winter leagues as a starter. It likely won't happen, however, so I'd try to pry JP Howell from the D-Rays. Good GB rates, good K rates, just needs to work on his control.

These guys will be as good as any FA pickup, and will cost us little in the way of salary.

I heard that someone tried to claim Sexson off waivers when we floated him. Why didn't we just let them claim him? That would've put that team on the hook for next year's salary, correct?

Geoff, you have been the one true bright spot this Mariners season. From the most complete and knowledgable spring training coverage through the "importance of starting pitching" lessons and even the great Sept. 11 reminiscense and now to looking hard at Santana for next year, you've been golden.
Yes on AJ for Santana. Yes on looking at Brad Penny. Yes on eating Sexson's salary and letting him go to the Giants or Nationals (OK I made that up). I can't believe I was a Weaver Believer (I'll never read Jim Moore again). I'll be cheering the Ms every day until the end (I go back to Rupe, and boy would this blog have hooted those 70s and 80s teams out of existence). But we are a really good starting pitcher away. Strong up the middle (if Lopez comes around, and he's young and it would be worth another year to see if he comes around), got Ichiro, Balentien, Clement plus there's always the "surprise" like Brandon Morrow before he got pooped. We're not that far away (except for this season, natch).
Oh, and as far Rich White being like Allan Watson (Stoney's Sunday column, I believe). I heard Watson served up those home runs just to get out of Seattle. Hated it! Sports Jerk of the Century (last century).

Geoff, you have been the one true bright spot this Mariners season. From the most complete and knowledgable spring training coverage through the "importance of starting pitching" lessons and even the great Sept. 11 reminiscense and now to looking hard at Santana for next year, you've been golden.
Yes on AJ for Santana. Yes on looking at Brad Penny. Yes on eating Sexson's salary and letting him go to the Giants or Nationals (OK I made that up). I can't believe I was a Weaver Believer (I'll never read Jim Moore again). I'll be cheering the Ms every day until the end (I go back to Rupe, and boy would this blog have hooted those 70s and 80s teams out of existence). But we are a really good starting pitcher away. Strong up the middle (if Lopez comes around, and he's young and it would be worth another year to see if he comes around), got Ichiro, Balentien, Clement plus there's always the "surprise" like Brandon Morrow before he got pooped. We're not that far away (except for this season, natch).
Oh, and as far Rich White being like Allan Watson (Stoney's Sunday column, I believe). I heard Watson served up those home runs just to get out of Seattle. Hated it! Sports Jerk of the Century (last century).

I've wanted to see Jones up in the majors forever, but for Santana? I'd trade him in a heartbeat.

There was simply no one like Johan for mid-season acquisition, and now that it looks like a perfect storm is developing that lets one of the best pitchers on Earth free, it's absolutely necessary for the Mariners to take advantage. As Geoff has pointed out, this losing streak wasn't born from a lack of hitting, it was born from a lack of pitching. Balentien isn't nearly as good as Jones, but it sounds like he has the ability to hold the fort down in the OF. Re-sign Guillen, bring up Balentien, toss Sexson, Ibanez to 1B, Jones + whomever for Santana, and we suddenly have a very strong ball club next year.

I know that some on here love the Sexson vs. Broussard stats, so here is one for you. In the last 2 months, the Mariners are 5-11 in games when Ben Broussard has 3 or more at-bats. In the same time period, the Mariners are 14-7 in games when Sexson has 3 or more at-bats. There is some overlap, but still very illuminating.

PUH-leeeeze! Geoff, all of you, get over the July 31st trade deadline already. There never was any starting pitcher out there worth giving up key prospects. None. Got it? Nada.

There HAD to be more than a few of you who KNEW when the Ms broke training camp that they did NOT, NOT, NOT have a quality starting staff. There was never a legit #1 or #2. And don't give me that "King" Felix crap. He's not there yet and may never get where the media seems to think he already is.

There was no way this year's team was going to be anything other than what it is because it all starts with your starting staff. Bavasi' plan (like George W's) failed. It's time to move him along.

During the off-season, the Ms will need to trade in order to get some decent starting pitching. And, believe me, it will be difficult at best given the over-valued price being demanded (and paid) for mediocre talent. But what are the alternatives? Free agency? Good luck. Nope, this off-season is when you decide how valuable those young, "untouchable" players truly are. If you think we'll do just fine with guys like Morrow converting to starter status...well, that's just cockeyed to believe he can make that transition within one year.

This season was not about Vidro, Raul, Jones or Broussard (who will get the hell out of here if he's got an ounce of sanity left). It's about The Weave, Ho(hum)Ram, Batista ("I pitched really well") and Felix.

Until the starting rotation is revamped (yet again), look for no true improvement in this club. Oh, yeah, a few coaches need to be given their "bye-bye" slips as well.

the m's have been transformed these past years into the chicago cubs of the al. as long as the fans continue to support this garbage year after year ownership has no incentive to change.oh well football season looks promising go dawgs!

Looks like that number is going to be 5-12 now.

well, Geoff... make our day won't ya!! We want the link too!

The Chicago Cubs -- you mean the laughingstock of all of baseball, no make that all of sports, no make that all of sports and everything else including everything that's not sports? Steve Bartman!! The Mariners are bad, but not nearly THAT bad.

ichiro drives me nuts at the plate. He just bends so freakin far and doesn't break. For whatever reason, he seems to take a lot of strikes and swings at balls... but somehow.. it works for him. i dare anyone to find someone who has had more 2 strike at bats... it's like he must have 2 strikes to get serious. oh well.. it works i suppose.

For more Chicago Cubs goodness, and some honest-to-god Seattle hate, check out the previous thread. Seattle defend your honor!

It's just about Adam Jones time here tonight. I say for Willie...hopefully here in the 8th.

Why Jeremy Reed!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Idiot!

Way to go Jeremy. McLaren is off the hook for that one. I still don't like the move at all. Come on Yuni.

It's nice to know that Jose Vidro, the great veteran, came through in the best possible way for the M's in the 8th. Yes, in Mac's mind that GIDP performance by Vidro will solidify his status in the lineup and continue to keep Jones on the bench.

It's nice to know that Vidro is truly the clutch veteran hitter the M's need.

Yu-betch-ya!!!! Betancourt does it again!!!! He is amazing.

wow... i can't believe what i am seeing

If a team is going to make a last, desperate push...this is the way to do it. Refuse to Lose baby.

looks like Geoff already went to sleep tonight.

Mr. X - Just be sure to ignore Broussard's stats vs. Sexson's stats.

That inning was the most baseball fun I've had in a long, long time....

Haha, I was thinking the same thing Nick. Where are you Geoff? We've got a game here.

wow.. i can't believe they won this game. Hope? Maybe.. doubtful.. but you gotta hand it to them.

Nice win, M's!

The scenario I proposed earlier in the blog is still viable!!!! I knew it all along (yeah, right!)

When was the last time we won 2 in a row?

I love Dave Niehaus: "One of the greatest comebacks in Seattle Mariners history..." --and then the disclaimer-- "...at least in the last couple of years." Haha. He's great and crazy at the same time. That's an awesome win though...I don't care what the situation of the season is. Way to fight Ms!

I get nervous with big contracts for free agent pitchers. That said, if anyone is worth the risk, it'd be Santana. I agree with others that I'd want to get him signed if we're going to give up Jones and the rest.

Geoff, it was my pleasure to provide the link. For those of you that didn't see it, Crosscut had a good analysis of NW newspaper websites, and mentioned that Geoff's blog (and a few others) provides a "lesson on how to do a newspaper blog right." It's a good read, and the praise for Geoff's blog is well-earned.

Wow, we're on fire. How did that happen?

The realist in me says it's over, the eternal optimist says "We have 3 more against Tampa Bay with Felix tomorrow, and the Yankees go into Boston..." This was just a fun game....finally. I know it was Tampa Bay, but this is the team that beat the Yankees in New York just before we got there, 9-1 and 8-2.

Nice link Ebenezer. GEOFF's blog stands out for how he engages his bloggers. See, GEOFF, how we make you shine!!!

Come on Boston!!! Beat the Yanks!!!!!!!!!!

Let me guess, Geoff. You're currently frantically re-writing your story for this game. You didn't already have the 7-1 loss story sent in did you? ;-) Oh you of little faith. Haha. Seriously though, no one saw this come from behind win coming (other than the fact that it is the Devil Rays). Congrats on the praise for this blog Geoff. Well deserved.

Last time we won 2 in a row was in Texas, first two, before the beginning of our slide...and we won the first 2 in Minnesota just before that. Do we have one more streak in us???

Yes. Yes. Yes. Come on M's! We can do this thing! We need help, but we can pull it off. Stranger things have happened in baseball.

Just logged onto ESPN.com and saw back to back headlines on their site:

Dodgers' Wells makes Pads' Maddux look meager


Cubs use Trachsel, HRs to take division lead

Both those guys were August waiver wire deals the M's could had for nothing and here they are helping their new teams with the run to the postseason. Ouch.

I don't understand why some people think this team has given up, is calling it in, etc.

I can't imagine Kenji, Yuni, Beltre, and Ichiro ever giving up and there are more players like that on the team. The guys definitely have games where they play badly, but it's the end of a physically and mentally exhausting six month season. The Angels didn't score against Baltimore today, NYY lost to Tampa last week, etc.

The same management strategy that brought us this season also played the regulars into the ground. There are a lot of things I don't like about this team, but them giving up is not one of them.

Geoff, glad you got some recognition for the insane amount of time you've given to us. Thank you.

Wow....ping, Geoff. That almost caused a mild skin abrasion. Are we trying to "up" the posting numbers now that the Ms have devolved into, well, the Ms?

Ok, on the up-and-up, I will defer to your knowledge based on whatever sources you've developed in MLB: tell me which five (you counted them) starters on other teams you believe might actually (seriously) have been available to the Ms at the July deadline if they'd pushed, cajoled and ponied up their prospects. But I'm counting on you giving me what you KNOW as a beat writer for MLB - inside dish - not simply naming someone like Santana or Meche (snicker) and saying we don't know if these guys would have been available because we didn't try. You don't get to have it both ways. The floor (or mound) is yours.

Geoff--Hey, if you're going to call me out, at least do it over what I said, not what you imagine I said.

What I said was: "For that matter, last winter's highly paid free agent crop has largely been a huge disappointment. In hindsight, I'm thrilled that the M's didn't pick any of them up."

Yes, Lilly has had a good year--in the NL, in a weak division. Maybe he'd have done as well here and we missed out. Frankly, I'm not sure they even pursued him. But to say that because *in hindsight* I'm glad we didn't spend megabucks on a disappointing FA class means I'm happy about the Soriano/Ho trade is a straw man argument and you're better than that.

The Soriano/Ho trade, in fact, is what made me and a lot of other people very fearful about the M's trying to trade under pressure. That trade falls somewhere between "brain dead" and "active sabotage" on the list of really stupid moves. We should trust him (Bavasi)to bring back something worthwhile? I don't think so. He's demonstrated that when it comes to trading, he's outclassed by pretty much everyone.

If he'd kept Soriano and used one of the rookies as 5th starter, at least they could have worked around the short starts easier. But it was all too apparent that he was desperate and lunging..and I don't want someone in that frame of mind trading off the farm.

Well I must admit, after getting home from the pool bar/drinking (trust me, the bikini fish were fine), I saw the score and had to watch the archived MLBTV session. Such a beautiful thing folks!
Kyle, it's always good to dream and like you we should dream BIG! Go M's