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Seattle Times staff reporter Bob Condotta provides a running commentary on the Huskies.

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July 8, 2008 10:55 PM

Jennings officially jilts Arizona

Posted by Bob Condotta

May have to revise the Arizona entry in the way-too-early Pac-10 power poll for next year after the news tonight that star recruit Brandon Jennings has officially decided to play next season in Europe rather than for the Wildcats.

I'll admit I'm surprised about this one. I didn't think he would really do this, and I'm still not sure I really get it (unless he doesn't think he's going to get eligible or really doesn't want to go to school for a year). It still seems to me like he'd be better off playing here for a year and upping his draft stock that way than heading to Europe, where his weaknesses could be exposed greatly against more veteran players. Seems like the potential long-term risk to the pocket book wouldn't be worth the short-term gain.

The Arizona message boards, as might be expected, are already full of conjecture about what the team will look like next year without Jennings.

I know the die-hard fans of the Huskies and other Pac-10 schools will rejoice a bit at this --- this is a big blow for an Arizona team that figured to have some stellar front-line talent but not a lot of depth. Arizona again looks more middle-of-the-pack than contender in the Pac-10.

But if this turns out to be a good move for Jennings, this could have some potentially negative long-term implications for college basketball, which I think has benefited quite a bit the past two years from the new rule essentially requiring players to spend a year in college before turning pro. Certainly, the conference was a lot more interesting last year with Kevin Love and O.J. Mayo, each players who almost surely would have gone straight to the NBA otherwise.

It'll certainly be an interesting move to watch.

UPDATE --- After posting this I read this assessment from Jeff Goodman at FoxSports, who says this will be an interesting test case but that he doesn't expect that a huge amount of players would try this. We'll see.

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Posted by Randy

7:33 AM, Jul 09, 2008

This now makes a diffence where Arizona ranks out next year. Could look like this:

1) Arizona State – Could switch with UCLA depending on if new freshmen or experience win out.
2) UCLA – see above.
3) Washington – Based on returning group with good incoming class.
4) USC – Close race with UW and could finish #3 depending on impact of Rozan.
5) Oregon – Only if incoming class has an impact could they challenge for higher...which might happen.
6) Arizona - When Jerryd Bayless was injured the Wildcats couldn't win. They are back in the same boat without Jennings.
7) Washington St – Wouldn't be surprised if they pass Arizona.
8) Cal – Could also challenge for higher possition if they learn to play without Anderson.
9) Oregon State – Might crawl out of celler if new coach makes an impact.
10) Stanford - If Goods & Hill step up they could move 9th.

Posted by Ziasudra

7:39 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Does this mean we won't have Meathead to tease?

Posted by Randy

7:45 AM, Jul 09, 2008

I somehow feel the meatball will not be stopped by this. As an Arizona fan he will still rank them at the top. I anticipate that he will still grace/haunt us with his presence.

Posted by Dave " The Meatball" Armistead

8:06 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Sorry folks, the Meatball was out on vacation. The news of Jennings is obviously a hit as his talent is unmatched this year in Highschool Basketball, but as the saga continued and more comments came out of his camp, it showed that he isn't the typical UofA recruit anyways and he may have been just a disturbance if he did play in Tucson. With him, I saw my Cats as a Final 4 team....without him I see us Top 3 in the Pac-10 as a core of Budinger, Hill, Wise, and Horne is still tops in the Pac-10.

Randy and others- You really need a dose of reality...Washington at #3 is beyond hopefully...get a grip sir. Like I said before, alot of the Washington players experience is not all that its cracked up to be. I'll take the Best returning center (Hill) and SF (Budinger) and a steady point guard in Wise against any of Washingtons so called experience and "returning players".....

All this Jennings saga did was stop me from buying Final 4 tickets. My Cats will still be a 2nd round NCAA tourney team, and we are already loading up with 2009 recruits. Expect to see Gaddy reassigned soon, but if not, it's no big deal, the Wildcats will still thrive and survive.

Posted by MT Husky

8:23 AM, Jul 09, 2008

I enjoyed reading your list. I would be thrilled with UW finishing 3rd.

I’m not sure I can agree putting ASU finishing 1st. ASU only went 9-9 last year in the Pac-10…granted, they didn’t lose anybody, and I am a huge Harden fan, but I still wonder if they aren’t being a little overhyped. They had an awfully lot of ‘off’ nights last season.
It’s hard for me to fathom UCLA won’t still be #1. They have Collison, Shipp, Aboya, and Abdul-Hamid returning – plus Drew Gordan, Jrue Holiday and Dmison Morgan coming in. That is a LOT of talent.

USC scares me, the more I read about Derozan and watch clips I’m awe-struck with how unbelievably good he is. BUT…he still hasn’t qualified either. They also have Gibson & Hackett returning.

Pac-10 is going to be interesting, other than the top 2 (UCLA…and I imagine I’m wrong on ASU being overhyped and they’ll be right there too) and the bottom two (OSU and Stanford) it sure could go any direction.

Ziasudra – I don’t know if I’m a loud minority or represent the silent majority, but I enjoy Meatball’s posts…and AZ still has enough talent to be dangerous and they are having a great recruiting start for next season that Meatball still has plenty to brag about.

Posted by Dave " The Meatball" Armistead

8:29 AM, Jul 09, 2008

BTW....Stephen Jackson was a previous top #1 recruit that was going to attend UofA (96) but didn't qualify academically, so there is precendence, and if you recall we did pretty good that next year in 97'. My Cats will be fine, this early announcement is Jennings simply trying to save face since he didn't pass his SAT. How sad.

Posted by Randy

8:41 AM, Jul 09, 2008

My dear Meatball,

Reality?! I have to say you wouldn't know reality if it slapped you in the face, which is what it will do this season. Arizona finished 4-9 in their last 13 games last season and they have taken a step down. If they step it back up this year then I owe you an apology, but I don't see it happening. And I have said before, my prediction of Washington placing #3 is not so much a great improvement of their team (although they will be better) but is more a reflection of the rest of the Pac 10 losing so much.

MT Husky, yeah I think most likely UCLA has a great chance of finishing #1 but I still think it will be a close race. And I stated in my rankings USC could move up based upon DeRozan's play. Wouldn't be surprised.

Posted by nate

9:15 AM, Jul 09, 2008

not sure if you saw it but there is a good article on redshirting on yahoo sports which includes quotes from Romar and Gant.

Posted by tonedef

9:19 AM, Jul 09, 2008

I'm glad Jennings did this. We'll see if it works out for him, as I can see him losing endorsement money without the exposure of NCAA b-ball. and yes, he may look bad against grown men, but wouldn't scouts take that into consideration? But, the idea that players should go to college for the college experience is a joke. why exactly do b-ball players need the college experience when hockey, soccer, baseball, and tennis players do not?

The one year rule costs the elite players $20 million, assuming they have one more year of max contract if they don't go to college.

Curious about others' thoughts.

And it appears that UW should be better- but they have far too many questionable players in their rotation to count on them for anything- pondexter, overton, wolfinger, wallace, dentmon- who knows what you're going to get from them- they're great one game bad the next.

Posted by MT Husky

9:36 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Tonedef – I’m ambivalent on the NBA one-year rule. Whether it stays or goes it won’t affect my love for college b-ball…and especially the Huskies.

But I will say, both the NBA and college b-ball have done great the past few years and you have to wonder the role the 1-year rule has played.

I agree with your list on the questionable players on the UW rotation to count on them. But I was also going to state there is equivalent optimism that a few of those players will step it up this coming season so UW can finish 3rd due to their improvement and not due to a weaker Pac-10 (Randy :-) ).

Everyone agrees not only how great B-Roy was and how much he contributed to UW success. But we’ve since learned how much better he also made players like Dentmon and Appleby look.
It will only take one of the in-coming freshmen to excel, or even one of the players you mentioned (like QPon) to step up their game and the entire Husky squad will respond accordingly.

I’m not predicting it will happen…but it very well COULD happen. Next year’s Huskies will have a very different look to them and I love the mixture of ‘veterans’ (Brockman, Dentmon, Wallace, QPon), potential deep and talented bench (Holiday, Gant(?)) and exciting freshmen. That is the type of balance that great teams are made of.

I try not to get my hopes up, only to have them dashed, but this Husky squad does have legit potential to be VERY good.

Posted by Romarville86

9:48 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Dont even bother trying to reason with Meathead, he is a blind follower of Lute Olson and will think they are a tournament team no matter who the players on the floor are. Budinger's draft stock has plummeted ever year he's since he's been in college. He made a huge mistake not leaving after his freshman year and now he is borderline 1st round. I find your comparison of losing Jennings to losing Stephen Jackson laughable because you dont have Jason Terry coming off the bench, you dont have miles Simon and Bibby in the back court, you dont have michael dickerson, so wake up and realize you are not the arizona program you once were.

Posted by MT Husky

9:52 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Of course, I realize there are reasons this team could implode. Last year it seemed the team often had very poor chemistry. That seemed to improve as the season progressed, but that does concern me.

And as exciting as IT is, I’m also nervous about a ‘hot-shot’ coming in who won’t play defense and shoots too much.

It is a cliché for a reason, but as they say, defense wins championships. I do think Huskies have the opportunity to be excellent defenders next season…if everyone will commit to that.
Here are the big questions I see with this team:

- Can Romar get complete buy-in to a commitment to defense?

- Can the chemistry be good?

- Can/will their FT % radically improve?

-Can players like QPon and MBA begin to play to their potential?

- Will Romar find the right rotations? This is key.

The Huskies have the depth to match-up well with most anybody, but can Romar find the right rotations to take advantage of match-ups, find the right chemistry and have the guys with the hot hand on the court?

Posted by Scott

10:01 AM, Jul 09, 2008


All good questions, but I hope IT shoots too much. They needed someone who was willing to take a shot and could create their own shot sooooo badly last year.

It's kind of like what I though about Overton last year. I don't care if he made some really poor decisions at times. He was pushing the tempo, and I think that benefits the Dawgs big time.

IT will make mistakes, so will Overton. I'm happy with them pushing the limits. That's how they will learn.

Posted by MT Husky

10:14 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Scott, I agree with everything you said...but IT will have opportunity to create a lot of opportunity for others also.

I am all for him shooting a lot (pretty certain that will be his job), but TOO much will only hurt the team.

We know IT can score, and will score, but IF he can also get others involved and play defense, Huskies will be a MUCH better team.

I agree with you 100% on your Overton comments, that is how I felt also.

IT will put up impressive #'s, that I'm sure of. But I don't give a rip about #'s (aka Beasley at K State), I want wins. I really think IT has the opportunity this season to elevate the success of the Huskies (scoring appropriately, playing solid defense and involving others) or to hurt the team (shooting too much, not playing defense and hurting chemistry).

I can really see it going either way.

The good news, is if IT (when do we start calling him Zeke?) does the latter, Huskies have the depth at guard where Romar can sit him down.

Posted by Dave " The Meatball" Armistead

10:34 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Let me make it simple for you:

Starting Line-Up and Reserves:

1) Nic Wise PG (Jr)
2) Chase Budinger SG (Jr)
3) Jamelle Horne SF (So)
4) Jordan Hill PF (Jr)
5) Jeff Withey C (Fr)

Reserves: Guards: Johnson (So), Fogg (Fr), Leavander (Fr)

Forwards: Fendi Onobun (Jr), Bagga (Jr)
Center: Jacobsen (Fr)

*** Lute will likely pick up some additional bodies before the season starts.

The only way I see that team struggling is if either Jordan Hill, Nic Wise, or Chase Budinger has a serious injury. Barring injury, my squad is Top 3 in the Pac-10, and 2nd round NCAA tourney team. Anyone who can't see that is blind, but hey, those are the same people that think Washington will miraculously climb out from the gutter where they currently reside and be tops in the Pac-10....truly lauaghable stuff.

Posted by Ignorance is bliss or Meathead

11:03 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Very entertaining! Not a typical Arizona recruit?
Keep them coming Meathead!

Posted by Salimfan20

11:05 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Good stuff Meatball..Seriously, what have theses husky homers been smoking..There is no way they finish higher than 7 in the Pac 10. They have one good player in Brockman and a bunch of inconsistant guards, plus they cant make free throws,what a joke that is and add in Romars inability to devolop big guys or anything for that matter!! They will finish 8th!!!!With the lack of big guys in the pac 10 this year Jordan Hill will dominate if he can stay out of foul trouble and the sleeper is Jeff Whitney, who is a legit 7 footer with a nice face up game! Cats finish in the top three period!!!! Which should get them a 2 or 3 seed in March, while the huskies might be hosting valpo in the CBIT tourny again!

Posted by patience

11:24 AM, Jul 09, 2008

lmao at meatball.

jeez dave, you spent the last couple of months selling all of us on how the mildcats wouldn't miss bayless because of jennings, now its more mindless rationalizing.

so it would "laughable stuff" to "think Washington will miraculously climb out from the gutter"? dave, last year the mildcats finished 7th in the pac 10. the dawgs were 8th. the mildcats stunk last year too.

we are returning our best players, the vast majority of our production in every category. your mildcats lost their best player and now must count on players that weren't even good enough to get meaningful minutes on last years pathetic zona team.

is that what you want us to believe dave, that last year's scrubs on a 7th place team are going to lead your mildcats back to the top? budinger and can't do it alone:

btw here are the stats for nick wise and justin dentmon:

min pts reb ass to
29.4 9.2 2.3 4.4 2.0
24.2 9.8 2.3 2.3 1.6

which one is which?

lute should have kept on walking after walking out on his team. his last few years are going to be embarrassing.


Posted by Cougfan

11:30 AM, Jul 09, 2008

WOW! I think this is bad for UofA, the PX, and CBB. I am surprised the idiot patience has not been on here yet and let me explain the negative consequences of this for the UW. One thing I don't understand is why people are so happy when other teams get "worse" instead of praising when their team gets better. Let me explain:

Two years ago the huskies appeared primed for an invite to the NIT. But if we all remember, they did not get in partly or mostly because of SOS. Do you understand that the worse other PX teams do the worse each team's SOS will be? You should want all PX teams to do well, be strong, and for your team to get better. With all the players the PX is losing the conference will be lucky to get 5 or 6 teams. So if your huskies don't finish in the top 4 of the league they can be SOL.

I am one of the believers that the huskies will be close to a tournment team. I understand Meatball's point about their experience being losing experience, but if one looks at WSU's experience 2 years ago it was losing experience as well. Sometimes teams just click and everything comes together. The huskies were playing good ball at the end of the year, sans the CBI loss, and if they keep improving and if their freshmen can make an impact, they should be solid in a down league.

I agree with Meatball that the UofA will still be tough with what they have. However, Jennings could have been huge.

addendum: I was on the phone for a bit and of course patience got in all of his/her shots at Meatball. patience will never get it! patience only shows negativity--pity!

Posted by Dave " The Meatball" Armistead

11:47 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Patience- dry the snot from you nose kiddo as it will surely continue to run as the tears well up in your eyes from yet another loss in the FBI pic-nic game for your mighty Washington Huskies next year!. Your Dawgs will hope at best for an NIT invite, which I think they will be capable of getting this upcoming year if they fire on all cynlinders, and my squad will likely be playing the 2nd weekend of the NCAA tourney. I obviously have to rationalize how the team will appear without Jennings, HE HAS BOLTED FOR EUROPE. (Did you miss that somehow???) Sensible people rationalize when new facts are brought to light and formulate new opinions, stragetgies, ect... It's a simple game of improvising and adapting to the hand that is dealt to you. With Jennings, I had Final 4 asiprations, without him I now have Sweet 16 goals. It's that simple.

Since you are incapable of rationalizing and making logical steps, you seem to forget that Lute Olson will be coaching the sidelines this Fall. Half of famer, yup, that's right, that's the guy. Best developer of talent in the game, you know it fellah. The fact that you still try and harp that Lute let the team, community, your parents, your children, ect.. down last year for taking much needed time off is pretty funny. Get over yourself Patience. Keep taking pot shots at the classiest Hall of Fame coach out there...see where that gets you fellah! You guys have Romar and a bunch of same position players, and 1 star. History says that typically doesn't bode very well. My Wildcats may have a thin bench, but we've gone deep in the NCAA tourney before with less. I for one believe that the rejuvenated Lute Olson along with the Top Notch coaching staff will lead a great bunch of kids next year back to the top where we are so accustomed to. Lute obviously hasn't lost his recruiting touch as we have landed 2 Top 85 players whose main comments were that "we want to have the Arizona name on our chests and play for a great coach and teacher like Lute Olson"....doesn't sound like anything has changed, and Lute will have success all the way until he decides in a few years to hang it up.

Patience- see if you can come up with any retort that is intelligent, rather than relying on your stewing hatred for Lute Olson and the Arizona Wildcat Basketball program.

Posted by Collegebasketball247

11:48 AM, Jul 09, 2008

Posted by patience

11:55 AM, Jul 09, 2008

well cougfan, i guess i'll have to explain it again.

THIS is the HUSKY blog.

meatball wants to come on here and talk trash about the huskies, call us a "gutter" team. well, i'm going to respond. you talk trash about the huskies and i will respond to you as well.

however, your last post was very complimentary to our dawgs so i'll let you slide. you can insult me all you want, it means nothing. i'm not the one hanging around on the wrong board. (though we know that all cougars secretly want to be huskies and crave any husky attention, even if it means being a regular poster on our blog)

as to meatball:

7th place last year, lost your best player, your 4th best player, your best recruit and another huge recruit, but your going to be WAY better because lute is the messiah? because the messiah is going to develop players that couldn't get minutes on last year's pathetic team?

ok. sounds like a stretch to me. hope he doesn't need another "leave of absence".

Posted by Romarville86

12:02 PM, Jul 09, 2008

Meatball please come and visit us come bball season so we can all get a good laugh at your lackluster team. Matthew Bryan-Amaning will be just as good if not better than Jordan Hill.

Posted by patoence

12:06 PM, Jul 09, 2008

you're right on target romarville. just like last year meatball will run his mouth until it becomes obvious that the cats stink and them he'll disappear.


Posted by Dave " The Meatball" Armistead

12:11 PM, Jul 09, 2008

Patience- BTW...Jamelle Horne (previous 5 star recruit) is one of those "scrubs" that you mentioned. Did you ever stop and consider that Kevin O'Neill was (is) such a demoralizing cancer of a coach that his negative behavior can psychologically damage young players so badly that they either physically or mentally can't perform to their capabilities? Lute has responsibilty for brining O'Neill in, but come on the guy almost undid 25 years of Lute's hard work. Wise and Horne wanted to leave, Bayless left, Budinger would have left, Negedu decomitted due to a horrible visit, ect...

Under Lute's tutelage, Horne will have his confidence restored and be a huge factor in the Pac-10. You guys haven't seen him play in Pick-up games, the kid can flat out ball. The only area that I am worried about is Guards as both Freshman Fogg and Levander will be relied upon heavily. I think Fogg will be fine, but Levander is a huge question mark. I see Power Foward being fine with Hill and Onobun as our 2 main souces since Withey will be a steady Center and get spelled by serviceable Jacobsen.

The thing you can't wrap your little pea brain around Patience, is that players coming and going to the NBA early or transferring mid-season has been common place at the UofA for over 20 years. Like I mentioned above, we've even lost the #1 recruit in the nation before they stepped onto campus because of academics/ineligibility. This is nothing new, we rebound, players step up into new roles (watch Horne shine) and become stars and we do it with greatness since we've been able to sustain the 2nd longest consecutive streak of all time to the NCAA tourney. We'll be fine buddy boy, how will the Huskies be?

BTW... The gutter reference is to any teams that don't make the NCAA and NIT, so yes, Huskies remain in the gutter until they can climb out. And, that "pathetic" team you mention refereing to my Cats last year, well despite the handcuffed offense run by Kevin O'Neill, we still went toe to toe with both teams that played in the National Championship game, and we lost in Overtime to the eventual champs. Yeah, I guess that's really pathetic. Get a clue hater, get a clue. Couple your hate with the constant losing, no wonder why you appear so miserable.

Romarville- You are a complete idiot. Hill will absolutely dominate the Pac-10 next year. Dominate.

Posted by patience

12:37 PM, Jul 09, 2008

meathead, you "went toe to toe" with UCLA, we beat them. we beat arizona too. so what's your point?

you call me a "hater" yet i'm not the one haunting a blog that i don't belong to. i'm not the one running down the huskies on the husky blog. that would be you. you're the hater. you're the confused one.

you want us to welcome you back with warm and fuzzies when all you did last year is run your mouth and then disappear? you make a bet and don't have the integrity to pay and you get indignant when you are shown no respect?

get over it.

go hang out on an arizona board. i'll never stop defending the huskies from people like you.

Posted by Chris

12:44 PM, Jul 09, 2008

classiest Hall of Fame coach.....LUTE OLSEN!?!

I like Lute and all but that statement was a way off. Meatball you need to pry your' lips off Lutes backside and see that there are plenty of other HOF coaches with much more class (look towards an old UCLA coach for #1 on that list). I read a lot of statements Lute made in regards to players leaving and the coaching last year, and it seemed like he enjoys blaming everyone but himself. Not exactly class in my book.

Posted by Fletcher James

12:46 PM, Jul 09, 2008

Randy, Romarville, Husky Honks et al....

In order to finish 3rd place in the Pac-10, Lorenzo Romar will have to get the Huskies to start winning on the nights that they stay in Marriotts and Ramadas.

Because Romar (or maybe the UW program) is afraid to travel and play anyone on the road during non-conference play, the Huskies have proven that they aren't Road ready over the past few seasons when it gets to Pac-10 games.

The Huskies hold serve at Hec Ed, but REAL post-season tournament games are won when you have to board a plane or a bus and leave the city limits of Romarville. (Heck, UW couldn't even win a CBIT game on their own floor last year.)

Arizona will be just fine -- they always are when Lute is standing in front of the bench in his navy blue blazer and perfectly parted silver hair.

Posted by SAFA

12:57 PM, Jul 09, 2008

meatball u r such a flaming loser i'm taking the two seconds it takes to copy and paste all ur posts and doing it, so that in half a year i can laugh at you and show everyone how stupid you are.!

Posted by Cougfan

1:07 PM, Jul 09, 2008

patience: you poor, pathetic little person. Let me explain. First of all, this is a Seattle Times blog. I might add a free one. The true husky blog is on dawgman where true husky fans reside--ones willing to pay. Just like the true Cougar blog is at which I am a member. You see, there are many huskies that frequent Cougfan--bigballaj, floridahusky, josh, dawgincarolina--to discuss basketball in the state of Washington. What is interesting is I cannot recall any member of Cougfan telling them to go away because it is a Cougar blog. Instead we welcome the insight and perspective of other fans. Believe it or not there is quite a bit of traffic from Oregon fans, UCLA fans, Stanford, and others in the PX that like to discuss CBB on the COugfan site. Does this mean that those fans are Cougar wantabes? Absolutely not and I would never have the arrogance to assume that anyone who attends another university in the PX would ever lament the fact that they went to one school over another. Believing that others are jealous of their school really seems to be a husky thing. I have never read a post on another site where people constantly tell others they wish they were anything but what they are. Believe me, I NEVER wanted to attend the UW. I (unfortunately) grew up a husky fan because of geographics. But when I was making my college choice, I decided on some things other than which athletic team I liked--like academics. Believe it or not WSU's program in my field was equal to if not better than the uw's plain and simple--ok dawg fans start throwing out the animal husbandry shots, the drinking shots, and all the other mindless vitriol that many resort to. Also, athletically I could have never competed at the UW in the sport for which I played D-1. I have no problem admitting that. To this day, the UW is still far superior in my sport--that's the way it goes!!!

I happen to go on many other sites to discuss CBB because I am a huge CBB fan. Even when the Cougars were eliminated from the tourney last year I continued discussing CBB on other team's sites. No one has to apologize for coming to another team's site and discussing BB. In fact, Meatball has actually admitted to feeling bad about posting negative stuff about the huskies but idiots like you bring it out in him. I don't come on other sites and trash talk teams...not my style. I have never been trashed on other team's sites like I am here, but I am self-assured enough to figure out who I am dealing with and will not go away--sorry.

It is interesting to read people talking about the blind optimism that Meatball has for his Cats. If I am not mistaken, many huskies, Cougars, Ducks, et. al. are the same. We all want to think the best of our teams. Is there a problem with that?

Lastly, you never responded to my contention that the last great PX coach that "quit" was Don James and you seem to ignore that. Lute did not "quit." He took a LOA and is now back. Do I think the way Lute handled it was very good? No! But none of us truly know the nature of his problem. I would like to give him enough professional courtesy to think he did what he believed was right. Now, Don James, who you need to understand I feel is one of the greatest PX coaches ever, really took the easy way out and I feel he is responsible for the fall of the fb program. He left it a mess!!!

patience, you never add insight to this blog! It is all negative shots at others. I commend Meatball for staying on the site. And I believe, win or lose, he will be on here during the BB season to discuss PX basketball and give far greater insight than you! PERIOD!

Posted by MT Husky

1:17 PM, Jul 09, 2008

I’m surprised I don’t take more swipes for defending Meatball and Cougfan, but the way I look at it, at least they provide reasons to back their opinions (not that I agree…but at least they give you something to think about).

Meatball went through and gave a 7 or 8 man rotation for the Wildcats without Jennings to prove they’ll still be tough.

If you’re going to allow yourself to get so riled up by him, at least give some reasons as to why Meatball is wrong instead of just calling him names.
Back-up some of your bravado. Why will MBA outperform Hill? What are you basing that on? Why are you so confident Huskies will finish ahead of Wildcats? Match-ups? Bench? Coaching? Who do you think will need to be on the floor to match-up against them, etc. Personally I’d love to hear why.

I obviously look at this blog too many times out of my day, but I love following the Huskies and a lot of you guys have some good insight, why don’t you share some of that rather than insulting guys like Meatball.

This site has potential, but it sure loses its luster when it is relegated to personal insults because of someone throwing out an unpopular opinion.

If you don’t like discussions about U of A or Cougs (or the rest of the Pac-10), then let’s talk Husky basketball! There are a lot of good discussion opportunities. Who should/will start? What rotations should Huskies use when they need defense? Offense? Should they play ‘small-ball’ with their guards…or can they go big with guys like Brockman, Wallace, MBA, Gant, Pondexter?

Randy did a great post at the top and it has spiraled downwards.

BTW – it appears Bradley reduced his interest in UW and is looking at UCLA and Texas. But I suppose that is less interesting than taking potshots at Meatball.

Posted by patience

1:28 PM, Jul 09, 2008

ok cougfan, so now you are going to come to the husky blog and talk trash about don james? you really want to spend time on this blog badmouthing our hallowed dawgfather?

good job. that should REALLY win over the husky posters who were on the fence about you!

on a lighter note, you assert that WSU offered you a better academic program than the UW in your "field". quite possible, i suppose, if your "field" was crop rotation or tractor maintenance.

sorry. i couldn't resist. reading a claim of academic accomplishment from a coug makes a husky want to laugh!

Posted by Formerly Guest

1:51 PM, Jul 09, 2008


Regarding your observation: "The news of Jennings is obviously a hit as his talent is unmatched this year in Highschool Basketball, but as the saga continued and more comments came out of his camp, it showed that he isn't the typical UofA recruit anyways and he may have been just a disturbance if he did play in Tucson..."

Can you elaborate? Thanks.

Posted by Ziasudra

1:56 PM, Jul 09, 2008

One note to meathead - O'Neil was Lute's hand-picked successor - when you bad-mouth O'Neil, you are blaming his sponsor, Lute. One other item, meathead has a 7 or 8 man rotation - better tell Lute, because he plays 5 guys for 39 minutes, then wonders why they run out gas at the end of the season.
Someone had a great idea - copy meathead's posts onto a word file and post them at the end of the season.

Posted by Dave " The Meatball" Armistead

2:40 PM, Jul 09, 2008

Ziasudra- The only ones who believe that O'Neill was Lute's hand picked successor are mis-informed. Lute picked O'Neill to hold the reigns during his season of personal turmoil/LOA...Arizona's Athletic Department Director Jim Livengood (please don't get me started on him as none of you want to know what the meatball and many Arizona alum really think about Livenbad) took the misstep of appointing O'Neill Lute's successor. Please don't be confused, but no, O'Neill was not Olson's hand picked successor. Olson has always contended that Successor programs don't work; i.e. when Lute retires, UofA will go on a true national search for the Best coach available.

Formerly- What I meant by the previous post was that for decades Lute has recruited high character players. I agree that guys like Marcus Williams, Hasan Adams (to name 2) were recent UofA players that didn't fit that mold, but overall the kids that have entered the UofA program have been respectful to themselves, the program, and the community.

As the Brandon Jennings waiting game continued, some of the quotes that came out from himself, his family, and representatives painted a picture of a rather selfish kid. His group only cares about Jennings NBA stock, and no longer cares about the name on the Uniform. As everyone saw with Negedu, Lute will fight to keep you here but if you don't find pride in wearing Arizona across your chest, he'd rather not have you in Tucson.

Yes Jennings needs to think what's best for his own future, but when you make a committment you should make every attempts to be a man of your word and keep it. (Plus going to College for 1 year at a highly visible program like Arizona will do much more for his NBA draft stock than fighting for a roster spot on a Euro Team full of tough polished players) As the saga went on, it became obvious to me that he didn't really have that sense of responsibility to the University and there should be reprecussions for people who break these binding contracts. Once you have this lack of responsibility, your integrity and character are open for questioning.

I don't want to get into the whole argument of "kids should get paid since the Universities make big money off of them"....I am a firm believer that even though many one and done or other early exit college players are only in College to propel themselves to the NBA, getting that ticket paid for in the form of Free Room, Board, and College Classes is more than enough compensation for them now. Brandon could have sucked up his pride, buckled down and faced his academic struggles. Instead, the whole time he was searching for ways out or "easier" routes (easy only in the sense that he doesn't need to pass any academic tests for a European team to take him on a team and pay him). To me that is a coward, and not like any past players that donned the UofA Red/Blue.

Brandon Jennings's me first attitude, and lack of responsibility for fulfilling commitments is what is wrong with the young open palmed "superstars" of today. He has an immense amount of talent, but no where near enough common sense to make him a true leader at the Collegiate or NBA level. His representatives obviously are trying to save face for a kid who couldn't pass a SAT college entry test, but why hold a University hostage? If he was really considering this jump to Europe, why even sign a letter of intent and back out of it 1 1/2 months before you are supposed to start classes? Why not make this announcement 5 months ago?

Anyways Formerly, I hope that answers your question.

BTW- I've been here the last 2-3 seasons interacting with you guys, that won't change again this season.

Posted by Randy

2:46 PM, Jul 09, 2008

Ain't this great? And we have 4 more months before the season starts. The great part is there is nothing anyone can say to prove Meatball wrong. All us Husky fans thing Arizona will be terrible and he thinks UW will be in the gutter and nobody can prove a thing or provide any hard evidence to firmly back up their point.

And Washington does have something they have to prove. We finished 8th last year. Until we show on the court that we are better, it's all just opinion. Of course I firmly believe they will be better. I've compiled numerous stats to show why but it must be noted that stats from last year don't mean squat for next year.

If Meatball believes a 3 ppg player (Horne) will become a star, so be it. Could happen. Can't prove him wrong. But listing a bunch of names as his super line-up won't make them great. If I list the Husky line up that won't make them great either.

So until November when the first ball gets tossed up, let the war of words continue! Cuz that's all it is.

Posted by Dave " The Meatball" Armistead

2:48 PM, Jul 09, 2008

Lastly- The above all being said, due to Jennings extereme talent, the Meatball could overlook all of his short comings and welcome him to Tucson for 1 year...besides, it's all about the Basketball right? This isn't about world peace, or finding a cure for cancer. This is about basketball and pride! ...and if he did come and got us to the Final 4, everyone would easily forget about the temper tantrums...I digress, but too bad we'll never get to see that pan out. Will the Meatball now hold a vendatta against Jennings? Nah, but I sure won't go out of my way to route for him. Kudos

Posted by patience

3:04 PM, Jul 09, 2008


my vitriol towards the meathead was sparked by his reference to my beloved huskies as being in the "gutter". all last fall it was the same crap, if you remember. he claimed the huskies wouldn't even win 4 pac 10 games and that anybody who believed as much was a "moron". well maybe you are ok with him constantly running down our dawgs, but i'm not.

further, meathead's listing a 7-8 man rotation isn't proof that the cats are tougher. they are replacing their two great guards, bayless and mcclellan, with significantly lesser players. bayless was the real deal. budinger is soft which is why he returned. sure, horne should produce more that the 3pts and 2 rebounds a game he got last year, but so will MBA.

to answer your questions:

the dawgs front line of brockman, qpon, mba with artem first off the bench should outrebound every team it plays this year. every team. and the front line should be able to match any opponents front line offensive output as well.

as to playing small ball, having three lightning quick waterbugs in IT, vo and dentmon should allow us to push the ball on anybody. romar has the advantage of having the fastest player on the court at all times and having three essentially interchangeable speed merchants means our guys will have the fresh legs at crunch time. however, because they are all midgets, other teams could exploit their defensive lack of height.

the defensive answer is holiday, who was suffocating last year and hopefully suggs who at 6'7" could be a real mismatch maker. however, unlike meathead's mildcats, the huskies don't need to count on the freshman to make huge contributions. also, unlike arizona we have depth and should wear out the thinner teams like the mildcats.

the only questions are will we have a 3pt threat now that appleby is gone and can we shoot free throws. if the answer to those questions are nobody and no, then we will finish 5th-6th and probably look at an NIT bearth. if we shoot free throws we finish 2nd or 3rd and go to the dance.

more than half the pac 10 teams suffered significant losses in top personnel from last year. the dawgs didn't. simply put, the same huskies who competed well against teams featuring nba 1st rounders, should improve playing against their replacments. last year we were 2-8 against wsu, ore, cal, stanford and usc. each of those teams are without there big guns. we should win 7-8 of those games.

as a result, i don't think that husky posters here are "laughable" for believing the dawgs are going to make huge strides. meathead is ignorant for saying as much

Posted by MT Husky

3:18 PM, Jul 09, 2008

Hang on Randy, you are right that until the ball is tipped, words are only words.

But there is a world of difference between saying, “Meatball, you’re a loser and Lute Olson sucks” and stating, “Huskies will be tough to stop next season because they can throw at you a starting line-up of:
Zeke (can we call IT Zeke now? Just wondering) averaged 33 points a game his Jr. season
Overton averaged 3 assists a game but with improved scoring should easily average 5 or more + a few steals
Brockman, with pressure off of him should easily average 18/12 a game (about what he averaged last year)
Pondexter improved as the season progressed and should improve from his 10/5 average closer to 15/7
MBA will shake off the freshman jitters and improve his 4/3 up to 10/5 easily (or more).

Add in scorer Gant, scorer Suggs, Holiday, Wallace, and scorer Dentmon and a team that averaged 73 points a game last year should realistically average 80 plus.

So sure…it is all conjecture…but using last year’s stats combined with a realistic potential starting line-up gives evidence that this is a team that has a better shot at 3rd then 8th.

On a separate note…does anyone have any insight why Avery Bradley has UW reduced to ‘med interest’ from ‘high interest’?
That was a disappointment to see. And Meatball, Gaddy only has 1 team shown as ‘high interest’, that being the Wildcats.

Posted by MT Husky

3:28 PM, Jul 09, 2008

I hate it when Meatball slams the Huskies…but I figure it delights him when everyone gets all up in arms over it. And I wasn’t saying his rotation proved his Wildcats will be decent, my point only was that at least he was giving a line-up that still had some talent in it to prove they’ll still be able to compete. Wrong or right, at least he is attempting to back up his predictions.

I enjoyed your comments on the Huskies, pretty much agreed with all of them, especially the comments on both the rebounding and on the guards and freshmen.

Sounds like we’re on the same page when it comes to analysis of the 2008-09 Huskies.

Posted by Dave " The Meatball" Armistead

3:32 PM, Jul 09, 2008

Patience- I go for a combo of history and the now when I project how my team will do, the Huskies can really only rely on the now as Romar hasn't shown any consistency on how you really should expect your huskie team to do...

Arizona wii be thin in terms of depth, but have 4-5 very highly talented players. The past tells me that Lute can mold those players with the role players and go deep in NCAA tourneys...that is why I have hope. We have done it before, and could easily do it again. I see Budinger (who you call soft...last year over 17pts, 5 boards, and 3 Assists) improving on all of his numbers and averaging something like 20pts, 7 boards, and 5 assists a game, Hill averaging 17pt 10 rebs, Horne averaging around 16Pt, 7 Reb, Wise averaging near a double/double with 12 pts and 8 assists a game. and Withey scoring around 8 pts and 5 boards a game. Just like most NCAA teams, the bulk of our scoring load will be on our starters.

But, like Randy said, the Huskies will have to prove themselves and have the most to prove. My Wildcats will have to prove themselves as well. But, since my Cats consistantly dance in March and you call them "Mildcats"...what does that exactly say about the Huskies who lost at home in the CBI tourney that cost your school money to play in? Do tell.

BTW...that's the same as chanting "over rated" when your team beats a team higher rated than your own...

Posted by Ziasudra

3:49 PM, Jul 09, 2008

Meathead - I may have been wrong about hand-picking; but if so, guess where I got the info? That's right, the ONLY time i hear anything about U of A is from your posts. I sure don't read the AZ papers. . . .

Posted by MT Husky

4:01 PM, Jul 09, 2008

An interesting article on Kemp. Should Romar offer him a scholarship?

Posted by Dave " The Meatball" Armistead

4:01 PM, Jul 09, 2008

Patience- I defined Gutter for you as a team that doesn't make any Post Season Invite tournies. Please tell me your definition of gutter? You might not like the way in which I use the term gutter, but isn't that in fact where your program as been the last few years?

Posted by Formerly Guest

4:06 PM, Jul 09, 2008


Thanks for clarifying.

Posted by Dave " The Meatball" Armistead

4:10 PM, Jul 09, 2008

MT Husky- How great would that be to get a kid in school and play him at power forward for 2 years developing his mobility and post moves, and have him grow 4 more inches and be a 7,1 center for the next 2 years? Everyone should be all over Kemp. If he has smarts, IU would be the best option with Coach Crean. He loves mobile big men.

Posted by patience

4:12 PM, Jul 09, 2008


you just never stop your insulting garbage do you?

i define gutter as a coach who walks away from the young men that placed their trust and future in his hands, then comes back and fires his hand picked successor, his entire coaching staff, blames everybody but himself for the drama he created and runs off two monster recruits, while badmouthing them.

i would tell you to go away, nut i've decided it will be much more enjoyable listening to your blah, blah, blah right up until you slink away in disgrace halfway through the season (like last year, remember)


any more BOLD predictions on how many pac 10 games the huskies will win this season?

Posted by MT Husky

4:16 PM, Jul 09, 2008

I agree Meatball, he sure seems like he'd be worth taking the chance on.

He only lists (at least according to Nebraska, Kentucky, Florida and UW as his schools of interest, none of which have offered him a scholarship.

I'm not real familiar with Crean being great at developing big apparently know stuff about him I don't...I haven't followed Marquette b-ball that closely.

Posted by Dave " The Meatball" Armistead

4:53 PM, Jul 09, 2008

Patience- I guess you believe everything you read. Quite a simpleton you are. Don't get upset little fellah. You really are funny guy though. Typical "high and mighty" Husky fan. Most on here have intelligent thoughts and discourse, but there truly is no reaching you. Kudos to you Chauncey, hopefully you will figure it out someday soon.

MT- Crean has a long history with athletic bigmen. IU has pretty tough requirements to get in, and given their current situation it may even be tougher. I don't know anything about Kemp though in regards to academics, so he very well could qualify there. My guess is he wants to stay somewhat out west. We'll see.

Posted by UW Alum

5:26 PM, Jul 09, 2008

Meatball, this is a blow to UA no matter what kind of Bush Administration spin you want to put on it. Ariz barely made the NCAA tourney last year (with a losing pac 10 record and where they were dispatched in the first round) and they lost arguably their best player (Bayless), they are not going to be a 2nd round NCAA tourney team, upper half of the pac 10 maybe but anything more than that is a stretch. I keep hearing all this talk about Jamelle Horne but much like Quincy Pondexter at the UW the five star recruiting rating doesn't mean much, at least not yet. One last thing, UW did beat UA last year didn't they?? I don't think we are as bad as you think we are. UA finished just one game ahead in the pac 10 standings.

Posted by jed

6:00 PM, Jul 09, 2008

Lute can really recruit, no denying it. It's a bit amazing that he consistently brings in such great talent year in and year out. Wouldn't be my choice. Greg Smith has recently committed and sounds like Gaddy will probably stay committed.

Losing Jennings is a huge set back but they still have a lot of talent. Still the same problems with lack of depth, and the potential for the recurring problems of poor defense, injuries and poor team chemistry are possible. My recollection is that Lute originally brought O'Neill in to help improve the defense.

My optimism for the UW rests a lot with their improvement last year as the year progressed; specifically the way they played defense, their physical play, tenacity, determination and heart. Despite a lack of outside shooting, very limited talent on the perimeter on offense, and abysmal FT shooting they either beat or were very competitive with the best teams the Pac-10 had to offer. Since Romar came they have consistently been one of the best rebounding teams in the conference and one of the best in the country considering their lack of size. I expect this latter strength to continue.

My concerns for this year involve the hope that it won't take half the season( like last year) to get them playing good defense and playing with maximal effort. Artem still remains a huge piece of the pie and his recovery needs to be complete. The other unknown is the degree of development of several key players, i.e. QP, VO, MBA, Holiday, Gant and the four freshman. We need offensive help on the perimeter. I believe IT will score from the perimeter and that Breshers will give some valuable minutes defensively inside. The others are capable but only time will tell where they are at.

Also, I wouldn't read too much into their loss in the CBI tournament game with Valpo as their season was already over. I could not have been more proud of them in the Cal game in the Pac-10 tourney. They played their hearts out and showed real tenacity when they could easily have gotten blown out at several junctures in that game. They persevered without Brockman and nearly won. Only a clutch difficult 3 pt. shot at the buzzer by Ryan Anderson won the game for Cal

Posted by Ziasudra

6:32 PM, Jul 09, 2008

People, just remember that meathead is like someone whistling in the dark walking thru the cemetery (where U of A will soon be buried), hoping to make enough noise to scare away the evil spirits.
He does make plenty of noise.

Posted by mattysimone

6:51 PM, Jul 09, 2008

yes go get kemp...ive been saying that for a year! meat...looks like my chances just got a little better with isiah

and bob please change the capcha sucks #$%^!!! I just had the most clear letters ive ever saw on here and it was wrong lol

Posted by robertroll

7:05 PM, Jul 09, 2008

This is not about Jennings making a choice to play in Europe. he did not qualify for AZ or anywhere else, its about his option be nothing.. so don't beleive the BS about setting a trend or being a trend setter, the only thing Bradon did was the only thing he could do...

Posted by Cougfan

10:36 PM, Jul 09, 2008

"Don James, who you need to understand I feel is one of the greatest PX coaches ever, really took the easy way out and I feel he is responsible for the fall of the fb program. He left it a mess!!!"

This is my quote. How is this trashing him? Can you seriously argue that this statement is NOT true? Do you believe that if Don James would not have quit before the season started and honored his contract that the husky FB program would be where it is today. ABSOLUTELY NOT! I said he is one of the greatest coaches in PX history and you take it as an insult? You have once again shown your ignorance not only of college atlhletics, but literacy in general!!!

Posted by patience

11:01 PM, Jul 09, 2008


so don james is "responsible for the fall of the (husky) fb program"?


no. he isn't.

while the huskies did regress in lambo's first three years, the huskies posted more wins than all but one pac 10 program in the TEN year period following james retirement. TEN years, cougar. that's how strong a coach james was. the program he built, the legacy he left lasted a full TEN years before the bottom fell out.

on the other hand, you being a cougar, you are an expert about a football program being a mess, right?

go bash don james somewhere else, cougar. you are nothing here.


Posted by Cougfan

11:06 PM, Jul 09, 2008

patience: You are unbelievable! WTF are you smoking? The fact that they won games with the players he recruited is EXACTLY my point. He was great. BUT, if he would have honored his contract and the program could have had a legitimate search for his successor, the program would not be where it is today. He quit and it ended up hurting the program. Are you f-ing stupid!

Posted by Cougfan

11:15 PM, Jul 09, 2008

And...patience I applaud you on making Newweisel such a respectable member of husky nation. I am sure you will be the only husky fan in your stadium that will be giveing him a standing ovation when he gets there. He was living off the laurels of DJ--who I say is one of the greatest PX coaches--but would have never been there had DJ honored his contract. Lute Olson is honoring his contract!!! Argue that!

Posted by grant

12:42 AM, Jul 10, 2008

Spin it however you want, but you were all about Jennings for months, especially when Gaddy de-committed. Don't pretend like you don't care he is gone. And please don't pretend that his loss only drops your Cats from 1st to 3rd in the were 7th last year WITH Bayless...wake up.
Honestly I feel sorry for U of A fans re: Jennings. The kid couldn't pass the SAT...end of story...this isn't a choice, it is a forced decision.

You might want to spend less time going after Patience and Meatball and more time worrying about how TB will keep your Cougs from hitting rock bottom. What would Pete Carroll do if the Pac 10 hit USC with the extreme sanctions that UW got in the DJ era? (which will probably never happen). He will run out of town as fast as possible. Don't insult the Dawgfather and expect understanding from the husky faithful. Don James and Lute Olson is such a false comparison, try a little harder next time, OK?

I should expect nothing less from a Coug.

Posted by Cougfan

8:14 AM, Jul 10, 2008

Grant: Are you and patience related? Name one thing negative I said about DJ. He quit in after practices had started. You are like a Republican that says Ronald Reagan never did anything wrong. Lute Olson and Don James is such an obvious comparison, or should I say juxtaposition, it is stupid.

Olson brought UofA basketball to the forefront of CBB; DJ did the same with uofw in CFB

Olson is one of the great PX coaches of all time; DJ is as well.

Both walked out on their respective teams when times were tough

Olson came back; DJ did not

And my moronic husky, I have NEVER taken a pot shot at Meatball. I happen to respect what he has to say.

Please prove to me that DJ leaving did not lead to the demise of husky football.

Posted by Scott

9:16 AM, Jul 10, 2008

It wasn't Don James leaving, it was 2 years of probabtion and several years of recruiting limitations that started the demise. It was way too severe of a penalty given the violations. That's why James left. The Pac 10 issued the penalty, not the NCAA. The Pac 10 initiated their fall from greatness with a little help from Billy Joe Hobart.

If he stayed, could it have been minimized? Maybe, but he wasn't the cause.

Don't quote me on those facts. It's just my recollection.

Posted by grant

9:46 AM, Jul 10, 2008

Oh Cougfan,

Stop dodging the real issue. All this talk about Meatball and the Arizona drama or how much you hate Patience and the Huskies is all just a distraction from the truth for you. Why can't you answer for your own team? Have you finally accepted the fact that your Cougs are returning to the bottom of the Pac? Instead of being Meatball's special buddy, why don't you offer some compelling arguments for your own team. I guess that can be hard when your best team ever was destroyed in the sweet 16, your best players all graduated, and your student section's idea of tradition is to steal the Florida Gator Chomp, but try.

Posted by grant

9:54 AM, Jul 10, 2008

Lute left for personal, non health related issues. Don James left because, as Scott pointed out, the Pac 10 made an example of UW. But when he quit in protest, he was gone...unlike Lute, where it was a mystery. Different reasons, different causes, different circumstances. Don James was not the reason for UW football's fall from grace, we were winning for 10 years after he was gone. Blame Barbara Hedges for hiring Neweisel and bringing his circus act into town.

Posted by Cougfan

10:31 AM, Jul 10, 2008

Grant: Wow! First, the issue that was brought up had nothing to do with Cougar BB. YOU have tried to make that the issue. The issue as it started was patience accusing Lute of quitting on his team. There is no question that he did, but he has come back to face the challenges/consequences for what happened. Don James quit on his team. Whether it be in protest of PX sanctions or for whatever reason it was, he quit. How can you deny this fact? He quit. I am not even going to argue whether I think he was justified in doing so. But it is blind love for this man that is clouding your reasoning. He quit! I thought the sanctions were way too harsh too. He quit. That is the ssue. Also, I hate to do this, because I do have a ton of respect for DJ, but part of being a college coach is controlling all the variables like recruiting, alumni, etc. and quite honestly he did not control some things in the program that led to its downfall. I thought the UW got screwed. But because he QUIT, they had to quickly hire Lambo, who was a great defensive coordinator, but a fair head man at best, which led to the hiring of newwiesel, which led to yadda, yadda, yadda...Can you at least admit that if Don James would have stayed the uw would have had a better chance of sustaining its dominance? If you can't then there is no need to argue with you because you cannot see the big picture.

Plus, I never come on here and make Cougar BB the issue. I will discuss them in the context of the greater PX or if they are going to play the huskies.

Now if you want to make Cougar basketball the issue, that is fine. I am fine where the program is. We will be very competitive in the PX, but probably not good enough to get to the NCAA tourney. I will be quite satisfied with an NIT bid this year.

Now, the next issue is the student section. Hmmm, that is qute an argument. What great new innovation to cheering has the uw student section brought. They jump up and down. Cool man, that is so rad! Did you see how the Duke fans caught on to that? Your reach to put down a program because of something the student section does is immature at best. Before Romar came the UW did not sell out their games and the students pretty much stayed home. What happened when they began winning? The fans appeared. Quite astonishing that the same thing happened in Pullman. But I guess husky fans are better. I will just go ahead and admit that o stroke your "ego"

Posted by MT Husky

11:11 AM, Jul 10, 2008

Holy Cow Cougfan, you don't get it, do you?

This is the time of year for eternal optimism and outlandish predictions - not lines like, "but probably not good enough to get to the NCAA tourney. I will be quite satisfied with an NIT bid this year"

Let me get this straight:

You still have one of the most coveted coaches in college basketball (beloved by his players).

You have returning PG Rochestie

Returning Center Crybaby Baynes

Highly touted freshman Klay Thompson(and it seems like each day I come across another snippet on how great he is going to be; aka, the most recent issue of ESPN magazine) - who should be able to do an adequate job of replacing Weaver.

Sharp shooting freshmen Horthun (or something like that).

Athletic Deangelo Casto.

And 3 other incoming freshmen AND everyone agrees a Pac-10 that should be 'down' from last year.

C'mon man, you can do better than that.

Posted by Dave " The Meatball" Armistead

12:08 PM, Jul 10, 2008

Grant- Since you have problems with reading comprehension I will spell it out for you as I haven't been spinning anything with regards to my standpoint on my Cats or Brandon Jennings. With Brandon Jennings and all the distractions that would have likely come with him, I saw my Cats as potential NCAA Champs and definite FInal 4 contenders. Now, that he won't be playing, I see my Cats finishing with a Sweet 16 bid at best due to returning players, incoming players, and the return of HOF coach Lute Olson.

When new comments from Jennings camp came to light, I started to formulate a different opinion of Jennings the person, not Jennings the Basketball player. So that it is clear, I would love for Jennings to play at UofA despite his character flaws but that ain't going to happen, so we move on and work with what we've got. And I still smell a team that will challenge for the Pac-10 title, and play the second weekend of the Big Dance. Is that clear enough for you?

And Matty- I agree, this strengthens Isiah Thomas's chances as preseason Pac-10 Freshman of the year, and if DeRozan doesn't qualify and Thomas has a great year, then you may very well be right. But I doubt it.

Posted by Cougfan

3:03 PM, Jul 10, 2008

MT: Come on, man! Have you ever seen me predict anything but low expectations remember when I said 10-15 for the rankings last year? Pretty accurate I would say. I also picked WSU to finish 3rd in the PX. Pretty accurate once again.

I am very optimistic about WSU BB but I also am realisitic. Sorry to disappoint you but I am not going to come on this site and burden myself with lofty expectations. You don't think the NIT is good? Please tell me you would have taken that the last two years.

I am surprised that you went into attack mode on me, bud. But, your call...

Posted by MT Husky

3:55 PM, Jul 10, 2008

It was all meant in fun Cougfan. Yes, you were right last year with your predictions...and yes, I would have taken the NIT for the Huskies.

I seriously do keep reading posiive clips on Thompson though, just giving you some ammo to throw out there.

Son of Mychel Thompson? That's pretty cool, I hope he does well (but not too well).

Posted by grant

10:57 PM, Jul 10, 2008

I understand perfectly well your new position on the Jennings situation. However, I find it interesting that you have changed you tune to fit with the news that he is not coming to Arizona. His character issues were well documented long before he even took the SAT. Now that he is gone to Europe and Bayless went pro, who fills that gap? I know the Pac lost a lot of good players, but I don't see Arizona dramatically improving over last year with less at their disposal, even if Lute is back. I am optimistic about UW because we lost only Appleby and Morris, and our new freshmen will be a serious improvement over both of them. In other words we lost nobody of any great significance Arizona lost their best player and now their top recruit as well...that is not the recipe for tournament runs. Lack of depth will once again be you Achilles heel. Jennings would have been good for the entire conference.

Why don't you Cougs do the Tomahawk Chop to pump up your team, or maybe throw up the Hook 'em Horns like Texas? Do I really have to explain to you how sad it is to see a group of fans who just started watching basketball search for an identity? A small child could understand why the Gator Chomp does not work for Cougs, why can't you and the couple thousand new fans get that? Oh that's right, you've only watched basketball for like almost 2 years. I love how you condemn my criticism of student sections as childish and then proceed to do the same yourself by going after the DawgPack. Could you be any more inconsistent? I'd say you've Couged this entire argument.

Posted by patience

9:58 AM, Jul 11, 2008


arguing with a cougar is like arguing with an idiot...

ooops, that's repetitive, isn't it?

Posted by Dave " The Meatball" Armistead

11:24 AM, Jul 11, 2008

I love it; Patience doesn't agree with someone and can't refute their points, so he resorts to calling them "idiots". That must really have gotten you far in life son.

Posted by patience

12:34 PM, Jul 11, 2008

gee meathead,

first time ever i call somebody an idiot (specifically because he believes don james is responsible for the husky demise TEN years after he quit) and you get your panties in a bunch.

the amazingly hypocritical thing about your quick retort, is that post after post you make is filled with personal attacks.

however, you are correct, i shouldn't have lowered myself to your level and cougfan's level and i apologize.

Posted by Cougfan

1:22 PM, Jul 11, 2008

grant: ok let me simplify this for you. If you understand what comparative analysis is you would understand my point. Did I argue the fact that the Cougar students use something that another team uses? No! My point is that those who own glass houses should not cast the first stone. Tell me what innovation the dawgpack has made in regard to cheering. The answer is none. The only thing I have seen them do is jump up and down. Now unless the uw invented this, which they did not, then why would someone attack another student section for stealing something.

You see, you and patience bring up arguments about something without first looking in a mirror and asking yourself, "is it possible that I am being critical of something that I could be accused of?" (hipocrosy)let me explain:

patience criticizes Lute Olson, probably one of the 3 best coaches in the PX over the last 50 years (Wooden and Montgomery being the other two) for quitting on his team and letting down his recruits. However, not one of us can possibly understand what he was going through. Even if you have experienced divorce, each case is individual. I have seen friends go through divorce and it was quick and easy. I have seen friends go through divorce who have never recovered. I am not going to go on a public site and attack somebody for something I know nothing about. However, when one suggests that Don James quit on his team, which there is an absolutely irrefutable argument, I am attacked. My point in bringing him up was so patience could understand the similarities in two great coaches breaking promises made to the young men they recruited. And I added that Lute has returned to try tofix the problem that his personal life MIGHT have created. You see, patience does not understand that when powers fall there is always a catalyst. Rarely if ever does a power fall from grace over night. My contention is that the lack of institutional control of the DJ era (using PX and NCAA words) was the catalyst for the destruction of the FB program. No way, if Don James would have stayed on as coach, the uw would be where it is today. Can I prove this?absolutely not, but I did give some very specific reasons for my presumptive statement. The only argument patience gives is that DJ is the greatest coach in the history of the uw and therefore it is a virtual impossibility that his exit from the program could be the reason why it is where it is.

I suppose the argument could be made that the departure of DJ led to its decline under Lambo and newweisel resurrected it? Ouch! That would be horrble for any husky fan to admit.

Your argument about fans is much in the same vain. You criticize the WSU section for mimicking the Florida Gator chomp, which I could argue is incorrect, without realizing that he uw student section does nothing but mimick other student sections. (By the way, I believe the "chomp" was actually mimicking the Tarkanian Shark Attack of the great UNLV teams) Then you continue saying that suddenly there are all of these Cougar fans that have come from nowhere because they are winning. DUH! That's what happens when teams win. If you can remember the graveyard atmosphere of BOA before the run the uw made with Roy and others, it might remind you of what it was like just two years ago in Pullman. So how does one criticize this new found enthusiasm when this phenomenon just occured at the uw?

Finally, you imply that Cougar fans, because the team has only recently found success, have no knowledge of BB. Ok, even if I did buy the argument that only winning teams' fans know and understand basketball and knowledge is based solely on w's and l's, then you have no business arguing with Meatball. His team has been to the Tourney 20-some straight years implying he knows way more than any other fan in the PX. Sorry, but I don't buy the argument.

Once again I have laid out a rationale for my statements. Let's see if you and patience can do the same.

Posted by jed

4:48 PM, Jul 11, 2008


You must have a lot of time on your hands. Your ramblings are tiring. WSU fans are probably just as intelligent as UW or UA fans and if they want to do the alligator chop go to it.

As for Lute taking a one year leave of absence it was fine. The issues in his personal life were going to be a huge distraction to him and he had the right to take a year off.

But I am not so charitable about your trashing of Don James. Lack of institutional control was hogwash. James ran a very genuinely clean program and is a very ethical man. BJ Hobert and the booster with the cash is where most of the blame lies. Hobert knew what he was doing was wrong and had been warned and instructed about such things. Willful transgression by the perpetrators even when instructed otherwise can not be prevented. The UW paid the price one which was intentionally elevated unfairly by the other schools who were tired of losing to the UW. One could question their ethics and Don James in essence did just that.

James was wronged by the Pac-10 in my opinion. I understand his leaving and I'm ok with it. He had given blood, sweat and tears to the program and his age and the years required to overcome the penalties were more than he thought he could give. He understood better than anyone that the penalties levied would make it difficult to compete for years. They lost a lot of scholarships and many positions were filled by walk-ons who were playing only for love of the UW and the game. Lambo had to deal with this and did a reasonably good job. I'll never forget the win against Miami when their home field win streak came to an end.

Neuheisel as he had done at CU won with his predecessors players but the success was short lived. I lay much of our current difficulties on him and BH for hiring him. Not sure what UCLA was thinking. RN has a certain charisma but they will ultimately regret his hiring.

Posted by patience

5:11 PM, Jul 11, 2008



let me try to explain this with a comparative example:

lets suppose that tomorrow the pac 10 hits USC with sanctions in the reggie bush case. lets suppose the week after that pete carroll quits in protest. lets further suppose that USC immediately promotes assistant head coach steve sarkisian.

with me so far?

suppose, in spite of the sanctions USC NEVER has a losing season for the next TEN years. however, instead of being the top team in the pac 10 they are only the second most successful team in the pac 10. (by one win at that)

now its the year 2018, and USC completely falls apart.

you, of course, blame the "demise" on pete carroll for quitting in 2008, right?

Posted by Cougfan

8:44 PM, Jul 11, 2008

Jed: You make a sensible argument. The only thing I disagree with is that i have yet to trash Don James. I never will!!! I was just trying to point out that he quit. I never said he was not justified, I said I thought the uw got screwed and the sanctions were too harsh; and I pointed out that the only reason I brought it up was because patience was so adamant about how evil Lute is. My point is none of us can "put ourselves in their shoes" (Atticus Finch) and even begin to comprehend what they are going through. Why are my points tiring and patience's aren't?

patience: you keep harping on the Pete Carrell issue. If it happens then we can discuss. But the uw is NOT U$C and never will be, so the comparison is apples and oranges. If you compared it to Oregon and Mike Bellotti i would at least entertain your reasoning.

Posted by Cougfan

8:51 PM, Jul 11, 2008

Oh sorry Jed: The other issue was the student section thing. Again, not my issue. You should be attacking Grant not me. I am not the one who brought it to attention and never would. I could give a shit what any student section does as long as they are suppoting their team. You disagree?

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