question: is there really any reason to think we'll be competitive (as in top-5 in the pac-10) next year?

i like the look of MBA, venoy, QP, brock, and holiday, it was nice to see 4 of those 5 on the floor to end the game last night. but will they really be competitive?

one big question: where will next year's scoring come from? QP doesn't want to score. IT will be a freshman, if he's here at all, so we can't expect consistent points from him. Venoy is too small to score only on drives and isn't a natural shooter. Holiday is a D-specialist and a bit of a slasher, but not a natural scorer. MBA has a couple of moves but doesn't look like a 15+ ppg guy. brock probably won't score more than he did this year. so, is there really a reason to think our offense be any better (other than that it can't get any worse)?

somebody tell me things aren't as bleak as they seem...

very telling quotes

while talent is key, it only goes so far - doug wren?

most of washington's key players during the #1 seed year were not recruited to play bball by the Pac-10 big guys (conroy, robinson, jensen, simmons,etc). But they were a "team" and they brought some serious intensity and will to prepare and win.

are these recent top recruits of ours missing this or is this a leadership thing?

Romar's comment on his substitution mistake sounds a lot like Slick Rick after the Michigan game. Yikes!!

So many good and insightful comments. Notice how many of us are now agreeing on players and issues? We’re sure seeing the same things.

Dawg2004 – I loved your player breakdown last night. Nicely done.

Wayup – I really enjoyed and agreed with your analysis.

Seth – great rhetorical questions.

GoodbyeRomar – you seem to have an opinion but I wasn’t catching it – can you repeat what it is you’re trying to say?

Stumpdawg – you had the guts to question if part of the problem is Brockman. You’re right, that is heresy…but yet, does his style not mesh with everyone else’s? I’m not proposing it doesn’t, I just think at this point it is fair to ask. I hate to say it but have to agree with others, Brockman deserves better – he should have gone to Duke.

Lots of other really good observations and thoughts by others, I have really enjoyed drinking my coffee and reading them this morning.
But with all of that said, I agree with Junkman and still back my statements to give Romar 2 more years . There are a LOT of different factors and we don’t know that anyone else could be doing any better right now.

Justin, yes, there is hope. Did you read that WSU blog by Ness? Look at the difference 1 player (not even one of the stars) has made for WSU after losing him.

No matter how bleak it looks right now, the current freshmen are the brightest spots, I think there is hope for QP and we’ll have 5 more freshmen next year. I’m not predicting Huskies will be in the top of the Pac-10 a year from now…but they could be. Sorry that I forget who said it but someone pointed out how talented the other Pac-10 teams are right now – a very valid point to keep in mind…probably part of the reason WSU is struggling too.

One last note, I hate to feed hungry lions but here is an interesting link for the Romar haters (of which I am NOT one…I have vowed to not blame Romar for at least 2 more years…”I’m still her el guapo”)

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/7774950/Two-years-after-Final-Four,-LSU's-Brady-fired

I have the M*A*S*H theme song in my head right now--"Suicide is Painless."

Who woulda thunk the Cougs and Huskies would piss their seasons away on this homestand. Well, I can only suggest we keep our heads up!

Here are my picks:

UofA over ASU: Even without Wise UofA the better team. (71-55)

Cal over Oregon: Oregon is slumping and Cal is on the rise. (73-61)

Stanford over BHS: PLEASE! (68-49)

UCLA over UW: Sorry folks. I wanted to pick SC yesterday but I try to not look like a Coug only picking against the Huskies. But NO WAY on this one. (81-60)

WSU over USC: PANIC!, PANIC!, PANIC!!! If they don't do it tomorrow the best they can hope for is a miracle finish or playing in MSG in March! (65-55)

MT, i agree with you that the current freshman are bright spots, and i'm impressed with all of them. but i reiterate my question: given the state of the pac-10, are the youngsters showing us specific reasons to think we'll be a decent team next year?

and if someone tells me we'll be a decent team, i want to know who they think is gonna score?

i'm generally pretty optimistic about the dawgs, and still a romar supporter (although i'm only reserving judgment for 1 more season, vs. Mt's 2), but i can't come up with specific answers to these questions, other than to say "they're young and they'll develop"...which seems a little empty, especially since i've been saying this for 2 years. my inner optimist need more!

MT: And everyone else.

#1 "Brockman should not have gone to Duke." What an ugly and unsporting thing to say. FWIW Brockman as we know him, wasnt the player he is now last season and was even more limited the year prior.

#2 I think with the mounting losses we are coming to the place were we have to answer the questions? What are reasonable standards and expectations year in and year out for the Huskies?

#3 MT I feel that I learned a good deal about the the genesis of the current situation in Husky Hoops by taking a look at the who the top rated prospects were year by year and seeing who the Huskies got. Secondarily who went where in our conference and onto the NBA. While looking at the lists of prospects I think that a story becomes fairly self evident. You are going to have to scroll down a ways to see some of the players who went to UW but I think its worth it.

Its a two part process.

#1 Go here and look at the top recruits

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&pid=88&yr=2002

#2 Go here and see who the UW got year by year starting with 3 NBA players in 2002...

(Who happened to win at similar rate as the current team when they were young.)

http://washington.scout.com/a.z?s=147&p=9&cfg=bb&c=4&yr=2002

After you take a look and come to your conclusions share them here.

You are absolutely right Justin, it is worthless to say “yes! We’ll be better” without backing it up.
Okay, here is my best shot. I’m not saying all will improve, BUT if it does here is why I think it will (and can):

1: Romar has to utilize his talent. This team is too small to play half-court offense. They have to be able to run and play much more aggressive man-to-man defense. I have wondered if part of the problem is this doesn’t fit Brockman’s style. He struggled scoring offensively his freshman year when that was supposedly what he could bring to the game. I wonder if it was because Huskies played a faster game then and he had a difficult time making it mesh with his game.

2: In a faster offense I think QP can and will become a much greater offensive threat. The two freshmen, Thomas and Suggs are scorers and both can take it to the hoop. AND, Overton sees the court like no other Husky has in a long time. Open up the game, let him run and I suspect Overton can average close to 10 assists a game feeding the ball to MBA, QP…Gant and others.

3: The lack of outside scoring does concern me a lot, but Joel is a terrific 3 point shooter and perhaps the reason he played/looked better his freshman year was the fast-paced game better suited him.

4: Defensively I think with the speed and length of players like MBA, Overton (speed at least), Holiday, Suggs (what is he? 6’5” I think), Gant (he better be able to run, he has the legs of a gazelle) this team can play aggressive man-to-man and really open it up.

That is off the top of my head, please allow me to add to it as I think of it.

FYI…I absolutely HATE it when Dentmon is in…but other than his horrible defense he too would benefit from a faster-paced game.

By the way, I have to wonder if in a weird way Huskies won’t actually be better when Brockman is gone (aka Tiki Barber) because of the aforementioned reasons which is why I say give Romar at least 2 more years before making judgment.

Royal:
Why is it ugly and unsporting to say Brockman should have gone to Duke? That wasn’t a slam on Brockman, I love Brockman, I just feel terrible for him and he deserves better. This program is screwed up right now and Brockman is suffering for it. Sorry if my remark was offensive at all, I didn’t intend it that way.

Thanks MT, that's helpful. 2 points:

1) If all your assumptions pan out, I think we'll be a young, exciting, mistake-prone team that will give reason for hope but, realistically, will struggle to win more than 8 conference games. We'll just be too young to hope for more.

2) Quincy is a much, much better all-around player than he was at the beginning of the year, and I expect him to continue improving. If he started taking it to the hole, he could outmaneuver 95% of pac-10 players, and it would improve our offensive flow dramatically because he would draw the D. But I don't he hasn't shown any interest in scoring, which makes me think it's unreasonable to assume he will score more. I hope i'm wrong.

Oh man I watch the replay yesterday and boy was it UGLYYYYY. We couldn't even make a simple pass! No defense and horrible shooting. What is going on? I feel sorry for anyone at the game. It is beginning to be blowout city everygame.

Royal,

First, I feel bad about that Brockman comment if it came across (or was) ugly and unsporting. I guess I shouldn’t have said it. I’m a Husky for life and Brockman will always be one of my most liked Huskies to watch. I said it because I feel bad for him and figured that he has got to be thinking that himself. If he really isn’t wishing he was at Duke right now then I respect him all the more.

Second, I looked at your links (as I have many times in the past) and draw these conclusions:

1. No one ever knows how a player will turn out, do they? I guess that is why every year the NBA and NFL have first round busts. Robinson was a 2 star??? I had completely forgotten that.

2. Forget the stars, Huskies just don’t have very good players right now, period. Gotta think if scouthoops gave them updated stars most of the entire Husky roster would be demoted at least one star.

3. Without seeing any of them play, who knows how good next year’s freshmen will be…we can only hope.

Did I miss anything?

I never once thought to myself Romar was a good basketball coach. Even when we were good a couple years back. I think he a great person, a decent recruiter and an all around good guy, but I think he is a poor basketball coach and it is definitely starting to show. If we don't make the NIT next year I think its time for a new coach. Brady from LSU just got canned and he made the final for 2 years ago.
Ive never seen a team so undisciplined, how many years in a row have we been last in defense (or near the bottom)?? We turn the ball over way to much. It's just ugly ugly basketball. It's time for a system change. Romar shouldn't feel so comfortable especially with a new AD on the rise.

Royal - I said Brockman should have gone to Duke too, last night in the game thread post - he should have. For the level at which Jon plays, he deserves to be surrounded by other tough, skilled players. Romar has brought no one in that can help or support him - he's a one man show playing against quality clubs, twice a week.

Question - what's "positive" about these freshman? Holiday, MBA, Overton? Unless they unleash some hidden defensive and scoring skills next season, they are only capable of filling space. Why is UW 9th out of 10 teams in the Pac-10, only a few years removed from being a #1 seed in the tourny? Good recruiters benefit from those scenarios, the Huskies have gone in the tank. Seriously, they're best outlook is 14 wins this season, a guaranteed sub-.500 finish. This year's freshman aren't going to do anything to improve that next year - only the incoming frosh can make an improvement. Sorry to be so blunt, but the Huskies are in start over mode again, with Brockman being the sole stud - period. This is indisputable - the scores and record scream this.

I'm a huge Dawg fan and I'm sick of the losing, but I'm far more sick of the downward spirals. The kids Romar won with weren't even his and now Conroy is saying they used to tell those guys to tone down their 'tudes? Wonder what they tell these guys, pretend like you're going to church? These Dawgs have no bite - period and that is a reflection on Romar and his staff.

The outlook is not good people - find all of the positives you want, 9th place in the Pac-10 is not where this team should be right now.

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PayClay - I think all 3 frosh have shown a lot of potential for more than just 'filling space'.

MBA has shown several potential great offensive moves that with some honing will be very difficult to stop, and some great rebounding and shot-blocking prowess. Especially as he gets stronger.

Coming in Holiday was considered athletic but someone whose game needed time to develop. He loves the game and is committed to excellence. I think he will be a very good starting contributor.

Overton sees the floor phenomenally well and is extremely athletic. Within 2 years I bet you he will be taking it to the basket several times a game and wowing everyone with his passes and his fire.

MT - subjective assessment to say the least, but thanks. I have seen a bright spot here and there too, but nothing that translates to the Huskies being tough and competitive now or tomorrow for that matter. Maybe when these 3 are juniors/seniors, the Huskies will be back to .500 again. I guess my comparison is to guys like Roy, who could take control of a game and rally his booys around him - they do not have that guy. Williams, Conroy, Jones, Jensen, Roy and Robinson could all score at any given time - it was difficult to shut them down is possible at all - this current team has proven they are easy to shut down - stop Appleby and Brockman and you win.

Who's to say Holiday, Overton and MBA will even be around in 2-3 years? Oliver, Nelson and Hawes - gone. Who's Darnell Gant? Let's hope next year's group is a boon - it will be 100% necessary.

C’mon, PayClay – not only was my assessment subjective, it was also very optimistic – give me some credit.

I agree with everything else you said. I do not see a Brandon Roy in this bunch. If more good players jump ship then even the most loyal Romar supporters like myself have to question what is going on.

I’m not predicting any championships, I’m just saying there is reason to hope.

When will Romar learn that playing ZONE defense is not working for the Huskies? Every game thaey have played and reverted to ZONE defense they have been blown away. With the 3 point shooters out there the ZONE defense just does not work.

MT - yeah, no Roy, no Mayo, no Budinger, no Lowe, no Collison - every team in the Pac outside of OSU is built pretty well and they just proved it the first time through - the Huskies actually got one more win than I thought they would.

I'm positive by nature too - but this situation is not going to improve and they have effectively ended any shot at any post-season. I think they need to decide who's going to be here next season and develop that chemistry the best they can. There are a couple of decent prospects on the team next year - they need to score and play some D. Either the kids Romar has can't play or he does not know how or when to play them. There is no excuse to go 0-3 for the first 3 games of a 4 game homer. Not to mention the games are lacking some closeness.

I certainly don't wish them the worst, I just want to see some adjustments before the season is over that says they are working on improving. The guy who mentions the zone D - that's another example. They need athletes that can shut people down, not a susceptible zone - if they were a good zone, fine, but they're not. The are very slow to rotate and they get victimized.

It's a bummer, but I'm always optimistic about next year....