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Times reporter Bob Condotta keeps the news coming about the Montlake Dawgs.

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August 17, 2008 9:39 AM

Sunday links

Posted by Bob Condotta

The Huskies are off today, so there won't be any news from Montlake. In the meantime, some links to hopefully fill the appetite a bit:

--- I tried today to break down the positions at the halfway point of camp. Maybe not a lot new there for the hardcore fans but more of a read for a general audience. But hopefully worth a look.

--- Times columnist Jerry Brewer writes today that despite all the dire predictions, the Huskies are a complete unknown, which makes the entry to the season especially exciting.

--- While we had no access to UW's apparent scrimmage yesterday, Times reporter Bud Withers was in attendance for the one the Ducks held in Eugene and files this report.

--- Withers also begins his Pac-10 previews with this look at Arizona State.

--- ESPN's Ted Miller has his daily links, with lots of notes about scrimmages around the conference. Sounds like most offenses look pretty sluggish, maybe proving the old coaching maxim that defenses tend to be ahead this time of year --- and that it's hard to fool your own defense after awhile.

--- The Yakima Herald-Republic has this story on J.R. Hasty and Jordan Murchison beginning their careers at Central Washington. Story kind of makes it sound as if they left by choice though I don't really think that was the case.

--- A writer for NBCSports.com projects UW to play Air Force in the Poinsettia Bowl but implies that that may not be enough to save Tyrone Willingham. That remains the question hanging over this team --- how much will be enough?

--- Isaiah Stanback had one catch for nine yards last night as Dallas lost to Denver, but also had a kickoff return for 35 yards, helping his case as a special teamer.

--- An Oakland Raiders blogger looks at who should stay and go and hopes that Louis Rankin makes the cut while noting that Greyson Gunheim has also done some good things, with two sacks in two games.

--- A Pittsburgh columnist predicts the Steelers' final roster and sees good things for Roy Lewis, not so much for Jordan Reffett.

--- A Bleacher Report columnist ponders which Pac-10 QB will provide the best leadership this year.

All for now.

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Posted by jh

10:09 AM, Aug 17, 2008


...from The Husky Forum...


Demand Excellence
by UDawgs on Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:35 am

I’m a regular Dawgman poster, but wanted to get the feel of other Husky sites and fans, as it seems the opinions vary wherever you go. On Dawgman, the posters run about 90% against Tyrone, however it seems here it is much more balanced.

I’ll probably get tagged as a “negadawg”, but that’s ok with me. I stand up for what I believe is in the best interests of Husky program that should be competing for Pac-10 championships on a consistent basis.

What worries me, and is also why many of the so called “negas” make so much noise, is this increasing acceptance of less than what we should be. I know the progam was bad, nobody will argue that. What I will argue is that if the goal was to become a player again in college football, Tyrone Willingham is the wrong guy. Simply, Ty is not meant for a big time program, he is a better fit at a place like Army or some school where winning at a high level is not the highest priority.

It frustrates me greatly that some fans only seem interested in rationalizing to make whatever will keep Ty as our coach. Todd Turner was a bad disease of losing and complaceny, Scott Woodward basically even said so, yet so many “Husky fans” have bought into his ideas.

Sadly, I have heard “fans” say 5 win seasons are a success! Unbelievable. I don’t want to rehash old facts and overly discussed things, but some here are ignorant enough to buy the simplistic view the “Ty won at Stanford”, which is a completely overrated myth by the way that I could completely expose if allowed to do so. The excuses and rationalizing is already starting to take place to ensure Ty stays with even as few as 4 wins! The schedule, the injuries, the youth, yada, yada, yada (in my Turner voice).

Jim Mora should be our coach right now, no question about it. Passing on him was a major mistake, and would have righted the ship in a smooth fashion. But the PC crowd won the day, and those with other ideas than competing for the Rose Bowl on a regular basis. When Ty fails, either this year or soon in the near future, and he will (unless you’re one of those fans who will consistently be satisfied with the “successful 6 win seasons”), I would love to see a more proven coach with some charisma.

Bronco Mendenhall or Jim Harbaugh are good candidates for starters.

Posted by 206dogg

10:24 AM, Aug 17, 2008

For those who missed it, Simone committed to WSU today. Looks like Moore and the bellevue safety are also on their way to WSU as well. What scares me is that Wulf is positioning his recruiting just like Ty did last year, immediate playing time. Moore and Simone don't want to come to UW b/c they realize how talented the freshmen are and don't want to compete against that.
My final fear is that if Simone is at WSU, then Heaps might go there too. That would be sh*tty!

Posted by old timer

10:27 AM, Aug 17, 2008

So is this going to run in cycles? Run out of receivers again in 4 years & start over with another group of freshmen?

Posted by Sittingdawg

10:29 AM, Aug 17, 2008

Wow, Kirby Moore Gino Simone and Alafoa (sp?) all to WSU. Moore doesn't surprise me, but the other two do. Maybe we'll hear from them? Bob, have you spoken with Simone as to why WSU? I think the depth chart had to be a factor, with all the young WR on UW's roster. I hope that doesn't factor negatively on Heaps' decision.

It's still impressive for Wulff, though. I have to think these guys could have gone to a more prestigious school than WSU. I hate to say it, but maybe he has them going in the right direction. I still don't think they'll win more than 3 games this year, even with their ridiculous schedule (Portland St.? Baylor?).

Posted by augiedawg70

10:33 AM, Aug 17, 2008

I hear that Sitting Dawg,

I haven't looked it up but I think that Wazzou has a losing record against Baylor, the doormat of the old Southwest Conference.

Posted by BoiseTruth

10:37 AM, Aug 17, 2008


Kirby Moore Unhappy about Commit Rumors - 8/16/2008
While it's a "definite" that Skyline receiver, Gino Simone has committed today to WSU, Prosser's Kirby Moore says that he has not committed to WSU... (more) ---- Realdawg

Posted by 206dogg

10:41 AM, Aug 17, 2008

UW has to land Heaps and Williams, both from Skyline. I do think he has the leading edge over UW to land both of those players.

Old Timer- To answer your questions, WR's will always believe they are immediate contributors and will most likely head to the place where they can get immediate playing time. I don't think we'll pull a strong WR until 2 yrs from now, b/c the HS WR's recruits will be turned off b/c of the youth of WR's on UW's roster.
This is another reason why i believe UW has to land 4-5 OLinemen this year. Build for the future, so you have a guaranteed strong and cohesive unit that you can build on and recruit w/. Heaps would love to know that he has a nice Oline in front of him... A huge plus.

Posted by marc

10:42 AM, Aug 17, 2008

Gino Simone is a Coug? That's bad news. When's the last time the Cougs stole someone in our recuiting grounds? And what school is more in our wheelhouse than Skyline? What does this imply about the state of UW recruiting?

Posted by mattysimone

10:44 AM, Aug 17, 2008

yeap simone started runnin his mouth like a typical coug and now moore is unhappy :) good Id rather have moores size over gino anyway. almost 6-3 200lbs in HS...simone is 6-0 180? simone woulda had no PT . and to think heaps would go to wAZZu is got to be the laugh of the year. BYU wants him as does every other major school in the nation. Spurrier has already offered S CAR. I believe LSU too. so to think wAZZu could get him is about 1000000 to 1 odds. Maybe gervis didnt want simone? HE WILL LOCK DOWN HEAPS THOUGH

Posted by 206dogg

10:57 AM, Aug 17, 2008

mattysimone brings up a good point. Maybe after seeing our new breed of WR's, he doesn't think Simone is the right guy or has the skills, so UW cooled a bit on there recruiting (I'm speculating on this). Naturally, Heaps & Williams are must get players. So is that TE from Gig Harbor, a perfect replacement for Middleton when he turns pro (most likely after his Jr year).

On the flip side, we landed D. Coleman, someone I'd MUCH rather have than a crapshoot such as Simone.

Posted by Sittingdawg

11:03 AM, Aug 17, 2008

I'm excited about Coleman, but just really hoping he qualifies. It sounds dicey.

I agree that Moore would be a bigger get than Simone (both literally and figuratively). Unfortunately, Prosser is in Eastern Washington, and living on the east side myself there are a lot of WSU influences over here. I was surprised when Bruns chose UW. Hopefully the reports are wrong and Moore does go to UW.

Posted by jh

11:24 AM, Aug 17, 2008


..."What scares me is that Wulf is positioning his recruiting just like Ty did last year, immediate playing time."...

...if this isn't the quintessential indictment of willingham's first two recruitment classes...I don't know what is...

...I wonder what the UW juniors and sophomores thought when they found out that willingham was using their 2-star status as a selling point to 3-star recruits?...

Posted by mattysimone

11:37 AM, Aug 17, 2008

sittin and 206-

AGREE 1000% on both comments! that TE would be a big get too. Moore has to like the prospect of playin with burns ad catchin balls from jake. I would have to think they did cool on simone....but he and moore were both on campus at the same time last week? Williams is young but udub is his front runner as of now :) How many scholys do we have for this year? 19? so 14 left?

Posted by Banned

11:40 AM, Aug 17, 2008


I am hardly sad:
Simone runs his mouth in the paper about how recruits are anxious about the UW coaching situation
and now he is trying to speak for all skyline recruits,
my heart is hardly heavy.

Simone may not just be worried about whats in front of him but also whats coming behind him:There are great state recruits lining up for next year's recruiting season.
http://washington.scout.com/2/778903.html

Simmons can go to WSU
Maybe a good situation for him
Maybe a good get for new coach there

Go Dawgs!

Posted by mattysimone

11:46 AM, Aug 17, 2008

yep all those underclassmen are must gets. Zach Fogerson could be a big time player by the time hes a frosh...already 6-0 205 at the start of his Jr campaign! Id like us to land trufant this year too

Posted by Banned

11:46 AM, Aug 17, 2008


JH (RODANDO??) says,

"...I wonder what the UW juniors and sophomores thought when they found out that willingham was using their 2-star status as a selling point to 3-star recruits?..."

JH
Your desparate attempts to undermine UW are reaching new lows. What do you do the rest of the day?

Go dawgs

Posted by Husky Fan In New York

11:46 AM, Aug 17, 2008

those who dislike Willingham need to give it a rest as we're less than two weeks until August 30th. What does rehashing it accomplish? It's troubling that nothing will change between now and then but they're still obsessed with him.

At least wait to bash Willingham a few weeks into the season. Nothing you say or do will change the fact that he's our coach for the 2008 season!

Posted by poster

11:50 AM, Aug 17, 2008

I think we want to get as many of the best in state kids as we can and that losing Simone is not what we truly want. That being said, we've never managed to get all of them, at best we just get a majority. If Simone felt a better fit or opportunity awaited at WSU, then of course he should've chosen them. But I agree with many posters that we appear to be in good shape there at the moment. Hard to speculate if we cooled or not, it's a loss either way. Note, 1 or 2 of the current guys may be moved to DB in the next couple of years.

Can't get them all.

Posted by jh

12:06 PM, Aug 17, 2008


...those who dislike [the negadawgs] need to give it a rest as we're less than two weeks until August 30th. What does rehashing it accomplish? It's troubling that nothing will change between now and then but [we're] still obsessed with [them]....

Posted by poster

12:12 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Withers column on ASU was interesting.

They return a lot of talent at skill positions and a QB with a lot of experience, but they seem ripe for a let down season, and part of it could be due to the chemistry that Withers points out. I'm trying to remember how they beat us on the scoreboard so much and I remember some bad run defense and then a pick by Jake that was run back for a touchdown. But I also remember matching up with them pretty well. They played above their heads I think. With only 2 starting O-Lineman returning from a unit that gave up 55 sacks, and with a QB who is a little hot headed, they are at least potentially ripe for a few chemistry problems.

Posted by Bham Dawg

12:35 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Bob, you forgot Jason Wells. If Jason Wells doesn't get hurt last year, i wonder if the Huskies don't beat a few more teams. Darin Harris is a back up who i hope isn't needed this year.

Posted by Lakemont Dawg

12:36 PM, Aug 17, 2008

I have heard enough about simone. He was not a must get recruit.
I have also heard enough about jake heaps. He should have no influence on our coaching decisions...O yeah and go issaquah!!!

Posted by mattysimone

12:38 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Heaps is the top QB in the west...get use to hearing alot more about him for the next two years

Posted by Formerly Guest

12:51 PM, Aug 17, 2008

206 dogg,

Here is a post I directed your way on an earlier thread, regarding Simone's WSU committment-

"206dogg,

You commented before you played for Wulf. (I think when I was whining about Cory Mackay switching to DE at WSU). As these two WR recruits we all liked have now committed to WSU and this has become the topic of discussion for the day...would you care to offer more of an inside perspective of what it was like being recruited by and playing for the guy? (I recall you hinted something like "he will tell any recruit anything in order to get them to sign...")"

Posted by Formerly Guest

1:03 PM, Aug 17, 2008

My thoughts on Simone's committment-

1) I thought we had him, and thought Moore would go to WSU or BSU.
2) I think that we have a logjam at WR in this current frosh class, and the prospects for immediate playing time at WR at WSU are pretty high. Plus, they are really going to sling the ball around. Simone will be a good fit there.
3) Boise Truth had the most insightful comments I think about this situation, especially when it was origianlly reported that Moore had committed to WSU as well (which Moore later denied). Gervais is at UW, and could give Simone great information on whether he was going to play here anytime soon. Moore's brother is in line to be QB at BSU, and in great position to let Moore know if he was going to have a chance to crack the WR line=up anytime soon. BT's thoughts were that BSU is stacked at their top 3 WR slots for the next 3 years. They are all sophomores.
4) All recruits to UW have to be cautious. Our coach IS on the hotseat. That having been said, if we win a bunch of games this year, the offense looks like they can do no wrong, and we push for 4th in the conference, this will look like a fun place to be. Everyone wants to play with Jake and be his pal. Guys who commit now to WSU or elsewhere can later regret it, and try to change their committment to here. Cory Mackay did that last year, changing to WSU at the last minute (much to my chagrin, as I whined about last week). Our staff can continue to go hard after Simone if it wants up until signing day. If we finish 4th in conference and we look like some of our WRs haven't developed, he may change his mind.
5) Heaps isn't going to WSU. The hope was that having Gervais would give us a head start to get him over BYU or UCLA, but it didn't work to get us Simone unfortunately.
6) While our youth at skill positions can maybe scare away skill position recruits right now, maybe it can be spun as an advantage. TW can say "look at Chris Polk. He came in and ran for 1500 yds this year. We play the guy who can help our program the most, regardless of how old he is. You have to earn your job with us year to year. You can start next year or year. It is up to you. If that's what you want, you know where you need to sign." Or something like that.
7) Finally, I have never seen Moore play, but agree with others that with his size, he may have more potiential than Simone. I have to say, I was impressed with Simone in that sate final game last year.
8) Going by BT's theory on inside information, I suspect that Moore can get a good idea of where he would really stand in our WR rotation, courtesy of chatting with Cody Bruns.

Posted by jh

1:12 PM, Aug 17, 2008


...Wulf as a recruiter is everything willingham is not...passionate, dynamic and works hard at his trade year around...you should be lucky that willingham is leaving...as the recruitment disparity between WSU and UW in future years would bring a once proud Husky football program to Division II levels...

Posted by mattysimone

1:42 PM, Aug 17, 2008

JH- kick rocks! god your annoying. go to dawgman and post there. they will love you and you will go from villain to hero. Just ask you mom to up your allowance to you can sign up.

Guest-

I think everette Thompson was quoted as saying something along those lines when he chose the DUB. like it was all on him if he thinks hes good enough then come on over and prove it. Lappono said the same to Boyles when Boyles referred to himself as chad johnson....lappono said prove it on tape.

6) While our youth at skill positions can maybe scare away skill position recruits right now, maybe it can be spun as an advantage. TW can say "look at Chris Polk. He came in and ran for 1500 yds this year. We play the guy who can help our program the most, regardless of how old he is. You have to earn your job with us year to year. You can start next year or year. It is up to you. If that's what you want, you know where you need to sign." Or something like that.

Posted by augiedawg70

1:44 PM, Aug 17, 2008

jh,

In your dreams.

BTW: When is ND going to fire its mediocre coach, before or after the Washington game?

Posted by BoiseTruth

1:51 PM, Aug 17, 2008


FG,

Very nice post FG, thank you.

Regarding Simone's abilities, It may be unfair, but I think when a senior receiver is upstaged by a freshman, in the same game, it's hard to look good, or real valuable. Kasen Williams was clearly the star receiver in that game. Simone looked good, just not great. Certainly not as good as Williams. That's Simone, very good player, but not great.

Regarding Kirby Moore. I have the tape of the championship game against Jake. Kirby was pressed into service due to previous injuries to Bruns, and their other top receiver ( who's name I can't remember right now). Obviously Kirby's size as freshman was impressive, but the main thing was his ability to catch the ball with his hands. He never tried to use his body to catch the ball. For me, that's one really good way to know if a guy is a good receiver. Good ones don't feel the need to trap the ball against their body. Nice size, nice speed, great hands, smart player, extremely well coached and great character (just like his brother). 29 TD's is not a fluke, it's a state record.
That's Kirby.

Regarding Skyline players Simone, Heaps, and Williams. I think they'll all be individuals when it comes to their recruitment. Meaning, I don't think one will necessarily follow another. I think they'll do what they think is best for them at the time.

FG, regarding KM and Hamdan. Hamdan is the senior.

Posted by BoiseTruth

2:21 PM, Aug 17, 2008


FG,

Here's a sound bite from KM (and Hamdan) . Crank-up the sound and enjoy some of the sights and sounds of a BSU scrimmage. Sights and sounds sadly missing (for most of us) from Husky Stadium.

Caution: if you watch this, you may want to become a BSU fan.

Huskyhttp://www.idahopress.com/cms/artwork/media/slideshows/08/August/080816BSUscrimmage/ Stadium

Posted by Luke

2:21 PM, Aug 17, 2008

WSUx3, I really hope you're not that ignorant. I agree Wulff has done very well regarding recruiting, but UW has just as good of a class, and will most likely end up better than WSU (you know it, we all know it). Regarding Heaps, WSU isn't even on his list of top schools. I hope he comes to UW, but I could see him going to UCLA, BYU, or South Carolina.

Posted by BoiseTruth

2:26 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Posted by ag

3:25 PM, Aug 17, 2008

I think what bugs me the most about pro-TW anti-TW stuff is when the anti-TW people say that the pro-TW people don't care about winning or that we are satisfied with mediocrity. You will not find that in any of our posts. Most of us don't even say we think TW is a great or even good football coach. We just happen to believe that a lot of positive things are beginning to happen with the UW football program and TW should be given the opportunity to see if he can now actually turn that into wins on the football field. I don't know about all the pro-TW people but I kind of think that is the best case scenario the Huskies football team. If they can win more games than they lose this coming season then that will keep the momentum going and next year and the year after they will be competing for a PAC-10 championship or even a National Championship. Now that opinion might be based more on hope than reality but what’s wrong with that? There is nothing any of us can do about who the coach is right now anyway so I figure we might as well root for the team and hope for best. What can it hurt? If it doesn’t happen TW will get fired, all you anti-TW people will be proven right, and there will be a new football coach at UW.

Posted by MelloDawg

3:37 PM, Aug 17, 2008

ag,

I applaud your optimism. We're all Dawg fans and as I've said, we just want what's best for the program.

This may not be your intended connotation, but when you say "a lot of positive things have happened, now we start winning," it almost sounds as if you excuse Willingham for his first 3 years and say that winning wasn't the top priority.

I understand he's a disciplined man, but there are just as many problems with players under HIS watch than there were under Neuheisel. Sure, Jerramy Stevens drove a truck into a nursing home, but from the way Neuheisel is villified here, it's as if HE was the one driving. In any case, I would disagree that there are "many" positive things that have happened under Willingham.

Do people respect our program more? Maybe off the field, but certainly not on the field. On the field, under Willingham, the national media knows what to expect from us, as do the rest of Pac-10 fans. Willingham has yet to establish a credible gameday image for the University of Washington, yet some fans here are HAPPY with what he's done since he's been here?

We just try to keep things in perspective.

Posted by J

3:55 PM, Aug 17, 2008

WSUx3, how many bowl games have the Cougs been to in the last twenty years compared to the UW? How many Rose Bowls have you guys won? I wouldn't count on the future in regards to WSU football (and certainly not the past). Come on, you know better. Thanks.

Posted by ag

4:16 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Mello, I think when I talk about positive things happening; I am talking about a change in attitude and change of culture. I think that pre TW the Husky football program, for what ever reason, had developed a culture of laziness and softness. I think they have worked very hard to change that and I don’t recall ever hearing the kind of stories I have been hearing about the hard work these kids have put in this year. Another is that last years recruiting class is the best the Huskies have had in years and it appears that TW has done a very good job of rebuilding the connection with the local high school programs that for whatever reason had been allowed to deteriorate over the last several years. This is another reason that I think the best thing for the Husky program is to begin to win now. Then those local recruits will commit to the UW after they win a few games. Remember last year that Middleton, Kearns, and some of the other top recruits did not commit to UW until December or later so I don’t think we need to give up on this year’s class just yet. Another thing I saw last year was how hard the team played week in and week out. They were in each game and competed every week. I know there is no such thing as moral victories but as I watched them play I always felt that had a chance. Now ultimately they ended up disappointing us most of the time, but I always came away from each game with hope for the future because I saw how well they played and how close they had come to winning. I guess my hope is based on the belief that this year they are going to learn to turn that ability to play hard and compete into wins.

Posted by 206dogg

4:20 PM, Aug 17, 2008

FG-
My thoughts on Wulf are mixed. I think he can do a great job of recruiting, and i can see him quickly developing in roads to Washington kids. He's a fighter and he's going to push UW in recruiting. However, once we get the new stadium (once construction starts), the recruiting will vastly tip into our scale, no matter what WSU does. Until then, it's going to remain tought b/c Wulf is a good evaluator and recruiter.

As a coach, I think Wulf loses some respect. He over promises during recruiting and then once you arrive he will force you to play somewhere else... he has you and he knows it! So, he's dishonest, where I feel Ty is honest and forthcoming.

While a a dawg fan, I'll admit, Wulf is a good hire. Hope that answers some of your questions.

Posted by BoiseTruth

4:55 PM, Aug 17, 2008


ag,

You've been a UW fan for a long time, and I sure a very good, and loyal fan. I only mention that because I have read your posts, and I know that you've been around the program for awhile, and try to keep an even keel. I can respect, and appreciate that. I have a problem with the program that maybe you and other can give me an opinion that will help me make sense of this problem.

I have a problem with the secrecy around this program. It really came to a head for me when I read that TW held a super secret scrimmage that Tyee's could buy into as long as they sign a non- disclosure agreement. It just strikes me as being wrong to have people buying into the UW likes it's a private company. Buying special privileges at a public university. The UW belongs to the State of Washington, and the greater community of Huskies fans that have supported it as long as you and I can remember. The fact that TW can get away with this BS pisses me off. The fact that Emmert lets TW do this crap pisses me off even more. The fact that people come to this blog looking for info, then chastise someone that tried to provide some - pisses me off more than the first two. The fact that USC is open, and our opening day opponent, Oregon , was very open, makes UW look like scared little girls which also pisses me off.

Now, I think I've established the fact that I'm really pissed off about this crap. Here's where you guys can help me if you care to. I've tried to look past this stuff for the good of the program. This stuff, and a lot more. I've tried to pull for the program, and the team, and not let TW's utterly stupid Bullsh#t get me down. Unfortunately, this has got me down. I'm on the verge of pulling against TW for for creating this kind of atmosphere at UW, and in the fan base. I think this kind of behavior is totally unnecessary. He's creating problems for himself that don't have to exist. I may figure out a way to ignore this like I have in the past, but then again I don't know how much longer I can keep lying to myself. So, ag, or anybody else, if you have any constructive advice I'll try to listen.

I must say that part of my anger is the result of having the opportunity of going to the open BSU scrimmage with my son. Having the opportunity of sharing that fun with him, and realizing that people are missing out on that at UW. It's unconscionable. Of course you can aleays buy into your private UW and get that I suppose. Is that how it really should be?

Posted by ag

5:26 PM, Aug 17, 2008

I'm sure that the privacy TW seeks for his practices and info about the team is somewhat paranoid. But I am not sure it is for no reason. I just don't think he wants everything they are doing in practice broadcast to UO or BYU or any of their other opponants. I have talked to someone I know in the TYEE and they do enjoy their access to information and they have no problem with keeping to themselves. We in America like having all the access we all have to information, but I 'm not sure we really need it we're just curious and wish we knew what was happening. You could join the TYEE and go watch practice ourselves. I think when we watch the game on Aug 30 we'll get a good idea what's been happening. I really think TW wouldn't mind letting you in some of the stuff that's going on but he knows if he lets you know, he's also letting Bellotti know.

Posted by BoiseTruth

5:49 PM, Aug 17, 2008


Thanks for trying ag. I'm not going to eval your post because I asked you to try and you did. I appreciate that. Thanks

Posted by BigDog

5:55 PM, Aug 17, 2008

BT,
As to Emmert allowing the privacy, my best guess is that he wants tw to sink or swim on his own... no interference so there isn't room to lay blame because practices had to be open and that's why we lost. Again, just my hunch.

Posted by VDawg97

6:28 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Ty was brought in 4 years ago to stabilize the program. He was the right type of coach we needed at the time. With a great base of young talent and a potential Heisman QB, its time to think about who can take us to the next level. Give Ty this year, but he never was and is not the guy to get is back to top of the Pac10.

Posted by BoiseTruth

6:37 PM, Aug 17, 2008


BigDog,

Thank you very much. That's the kind of refresher that I need. I was/am so pissed that I'm forgetting about angles like that, that I had taken into account in the past. Thanks for reminding me.

Posted by Formerly Guest

7:04 PM, Aug 17, 2008

BT,

My thoughts on the Tyee thing...

Pure speculation here, but TW is a bit paranoid, and doesn't want the Tyee people around - but it was a concession he made to the athletic department to keep the big donors happy. They crave contact with the program and want it back. This, and opening 9 practices or so to the Tyee people, is a way to placate those powerful fans. Yes it is not a huge intrusion, so TW can tolerate it.

I was pissed after the press conference where he refused to discuss Locker's MRI results. If someone had that approach in my line of work, they would have been shown the door.

But as I understand it, for years they have had "special functions" open to the Tyee program and so maybe for me, that made this practice and scrimmage access thing more acceptable. When MH actually mentioned it, I was sor tof glad. "At least someone gets to see us scrimmage" I thought, which is better than it used to be.

I remember as a kid, it annoyed me that the more you donated each year, the farther up you moved. My dad and grandfather were either too cheap or too poor to do so, so they stayed 6 rows from the back of the stadium, right under the pres box, for 20+ years.

Coincidentally, I went all out when I bought tickets this year. I am taking some small kids and I need them to be able to see the field to make it worth going. So to get the best possible tickets, I joined the Tyee thing at the cheapest level.

I probably won't do this again, as it was pretty expensive. The athletic department was quick to charge my credit card, but has been slow to process my membership. I called the ticket office about it last week, and they could answer no questions. So I have received no invitations to practices or scrimmages. Nor wouild I have likely gone, due to childcare issues.

But I think closed practices is becoming more common in bigtime football. It is not the norm at USC or BSU, but is starting to happen at UA and at UO, just not to this extreme. And paying for special access to the program has always been a part of many programs, I am afraid.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. My guess is that many people share your opinion and your sentiment,

Posted by Nebdawg

7:04 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Mello, Has TW really had as many problems with players as RN? Really? RN had a drunken drug using rapist for a tight end and a drug dealing armed robbing attempted murderer on defense, that's just the tip of the iceberg. Has TW had kids that compare to that? I wasn't aware. That's a totally ignorant comment. It sounded, last week like Don James had total respect for what TW is doing on and off the field. That is someone whose opinion I respect.

Now Boise, I totally respect your opinions and always enjoy your insights, links, etc; everyone does. True, UW is a public institution, but I think they have every right to use access as a means of marketing. Tyee's pay premium bucks, and it seems that a good way to show value to those people is to give them the opportunity to get more info. I guess that if I had the means and was on the edge about joining the Tyee club, that could be a point to push me over. Everything having to do with accessing the football program costs money, and the more you pay, the better your access is. Right? The more you contribute, the better tickets you get. Nobody gets in for free, even though it's a public institution. I hate long posts, so I'll stop and see if you think I am way off base.

Posted by BigDog

7:19 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Now this will likely tick off a few people, but I know for a fact that not only Tyee members got those non-disclosure, invite letters. Some haven't even been ticket holders for years. So not sure what database was used. (the letter addressed them as if they were members but they aren't)

Posted by poster

7:27 PM, Aug 17, 2008

I want Ty to do what ever it takes to win, and in particular on Aug. 30th. Of course I'd like a little info about what's going on now, but if keeping the doors mostly closed, etc., gives us any edge, I'm fine with it.

Posted by JimMorarulz!

7:30 PM, Aug 17, 2008

dam bud, I like your stuff, but your "preview" of ASU read a lot more like an analysis of Rudy Carpenter than an analysis of a football team. Does ASU have a defense???

Jim Mora junior would have written about ASU's defense. He even would have done it while drinking a glass of water.

Posted by MelloDawg

8:46 PM, Aug 17, 2008

ag,

Fair enough, though it's not as if under Neuheisel and Gilby's watch that there was news of undisciplined players every single week. All I know is that the team won under Neuheisel. He had his problems, but what coach doesn't? Ty is not perfect in terms of crafting a culture of discipline at UW, I could think of 3-4 players off the top of my head who've been in the program and still act up.

(As an aside, there's no telling where Rick would have ended up if he was around another year. It would have been interesting to see).

I'd like to think that "being in every game" and "competing hard every week" means something, but last year's team had the WORST defense in school history. Also, let's be honest, they usually fell apart after halftime. I'll give you the fact they played hard against Ohio St, Oregon for the 1st half, and Hawaii, but they got mauled down the road (see: the Arizona loss). Last I checked, playing for 50% of the game and then dying out isn't "competing hard." Did they have potential last year? Sure, but one of the common knocks on Willingham is that he plays the 2nd half the same way as the 1st half and gets dominated while doing it.

This is the in-game stuff that HAS to change in Year 4. Heck, it should have mattered much more in Years 1-2-3 but sometime people excuse that. But as we say, that's done and in the past. No more excuses for Ty.

Posted by MelloDawg

8:49 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Nebdawg,

Do you want to blame Neuheisel for the problems that Jerramy Stevens had? Same with those of Jeremiah Pharms? Good lord, Ty is given absolutely no blame for guys like JR Hasty and, instead, people call the guy a "Bellevue brat. Ty shouldn't be asked to babysit these spoiled kids."

My point wasn't to provide a qualitative analysis of the transgressions under Neuheisel and Ty and say they're the same. Obviously, rape is much worse than a drunk kid walking around a concert. My point is that Ty is held to a different standard and is NEVER given the blame when his players act up. If you want to blame Rick for his players' lack of discipline, you damn well better be prepared to say it's Ty's fault for recruiting spoiled kids.

Posted by ag

9:06 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Mello, I agree with that too. No more excuses. If they can’t win a few more games this year than last then I’ll be ready to move on. Especially the ones against the middle to lower half of the Pac-10. In my mind WSU, Arizona, OSU, Stanford, and UCLA are all games they should be able to win by this time in the TW era. Then they are going to have to beat at least one or two others out of Oregon, ASU, ND, and BYU. Can they do it? I think they can, I hope they will. I guess we’ll find out won’t we.

Posted by Nebdawg

9:17 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Mello, it's funny to see you write that TW has just as many problems as RH, when you are comparing women beaters, rapists, attempted murderers, drug dealers, etc with the problems players under TW has, as well as the fact that the Prosecuter's office covered up for most of what happened on RN's watch, while that doesn't happen with TW. It just seemed that you made a absurdly inaccurate comment in order to make a point. To answer your question, I don't blame RH for the rapist's problems, I blame him for either not knowing, or looking the other way, or helping cover them up, any of which is wrong. TW holds himself to a different standard than RN did, and if TW is gone tomorrow, or the end of next year, or whenever, he won't have left the program in a shables, like RN did.

Posted by BW

9:44 PM, Aug 17, 2008

I'm tired of all the negative comments. The season hasn't even begun. Many posters seem like they would rather the team do poorly so Willingham gets fired. What good does that kind of thinking do? I'd rather support a team and coach than try to bring them down. I think they are going to do well and surprise a lot of people.

Posted by Formerly Guest

10:17 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Mello,
For what it is worth, Stevans and Pharms had LEGAL problems. Their behavior made the university look really really bad, whether you want to blame the Seattle Times, the players themselves, the coach, the DA, or the school president.

Young JR Hasty has had no legal problems whatsoever. For reasons we can only speculate - presumably for being some kind of bad apple- TW pulled his scholarship and sent him on his way.

Your post actually makes RN look like a guy who will happily play criminals, and makes TW look like a commendable disciplinarian. I don't think this was your intention.

I just want to win games, don't really care who coaches. I got to give TW credit for running a clean ship. We'll see what our record is this year.

Posted by Formerly Guest

10:25 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Ok,
enough with the pro-coach vs. anti-coach blather (to which I contribute as much as anybody). I have a football question for people-

1) do you see us sticking with so much fullback involvement in our version of the spread the next 1-2 years? It seems we have great FBs in Kravitz and Homer, but using the FB seems to make our offense a little klunky, in my humble opinion. Kravitz has 1 more year, and Homer 3?
2) If we are able to recruit Zach Fogerson to join us for the fall of 2010, so you see him staying at FB?

Posted by jed

10:28 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Mello,

There are players that have problems with behavior in TW's tenure but he discourages it and enacts consequences on the players. I don't see Hasty or Savanna reinstated. When players do not work per the program on the off season and come in out of condition there are consequences. TW can not control young peoples behavior completely but he seems to hold them to a standard and I don't see a lot of complaining from the players. No way a Jerramy Stevens would be kept on this team. In this way I see definate differences between RN and TW. The players seem more committed.

Contrary to JH's comments about TW being a poor recruiter and being lazy. I disagree. Players seem to want to play for him. Wulff is a great hire for WSU and he will bring in certain guys who want to play for him but TW will get his share- count on it.

As for all the secrecy surrounding the team's preparations that is TW's prerogative. Some of it may be a bit of paranoia but much of it I suspect is his personality. People are all different. Some people wear their emotions " on their sleeve" others are more private and selective about what they reveal. It certainly would not be Emmert's place to tell TW how to run his practices. What's most important is what allows the team to get the most accomplished will the time they have. If the coaches think this works best so be it. He is not alone in this policy even will some coaches in the NFL.

RN was open almost to a fault. Lots of show and glitz. Far too much show and not enough substance and I think the players begin to know it. All the press about how he was going after high profile recruits like Booker ad nauseum and to no avail. Well how about diligently going after solid in state people and building the foundation for the future. The program at Colorado was falling apart when he left and the same holds here.

Mello wondered what would have happened if RN stayed. I can tell you ,losing and lots of it. Don't think the debacle of Gilby's two years were all or even mostly him. RN directly laid the ground work; the worst OL in the 100+ yr history of UW football ( especially Gilby's last year). I feel sorry for Stanback as his only start with Gilby was against USC and the line looked like a HS line against them.

I made a statement a couple posts back which Mello mocked that I think the program is actually better off now than in RN's last year. He said RN never had a losing record. No but the program was headed down in a steep fashion and I believe all indications are that we're on the way up.

Posted by Formerly Guest

10:33 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Boise Truth,

Thanks for the link. It didn't really convert me to becoming a BSU fan, although I have taken a major liking to them since watching the Fiesta Bowl against OU.

It did make me think "gee, it would have been really fun to go to a UW pre-season scrimmage given the chance." That having been said, I am Ok with it being closed to the "public," if it is helping the team to outsmart our opponents.

I think many of us feel that there are things that the coach may do that creates avoidable problems with the public for him. (Which I think was your main point). For me, it was the press conference around the MRI. But there were a number of people on here who thought I was making a big deal out of nothing.

I have a tape of that Ferndale-Prosser game on a shelf somewhere. A friend taped it for me, but gave it to me 3 months after the fact, so I never got around to watching it. I may get around to it.

Posted by MelloDawg

10:56 PM, Aug 17, 2008

jed,

Again, how is it that we're on our way up? There has been zero indication on the field that we are going anywhere. When people keep using these intangible signs of progress, it almost excuses Willingham from losing his first 3 years here. Ty got absolutely pasted in the 2nd halves of games last year and it had a ridiculously small amount to do with the players. Zero adjustments, zero results, big time 2nd half whoopings at the hands of crap schools like Arizona and WSU.

I'm not sure how you justify progress because 10th, 9th, and 10th is certainly not progression, it's regression. It's to the point where I don't think Ty supporters realize how they sound.

As for Neuheisel, he took us to a Rose Bowl and won it. He took us to several bowl games. There is no guarantee he would have lost here. How about the fact that Gilby was a flat out horrible football coach? He was at Cal and he was at UW, but we can go ahead and continue to place blame on Neuheisel for the downfall of the program.

It wasn't Rick's fault entirely, you can go ahead and blame the athletic department for a failure to monitor.

We also can't say why Ty disciplines players because he has a set of guidelines which are unknown to the entire public. The whole "5th year must be earned"? What kind of pompous slogan is that? What earns a 5th year? Why were some seniors not given one?

We see guys like Hasty and Savannah not playing and don't need an explanation because Ty "Panopticon" Willingham knows all and MUST be doing things the right way.....because when he's doing things the right way OFF the field, it means he doesn't need to do them the right way ON the field for the first 3 years.

The on field product is no better now than it was in his first year. Measure it wins and losses, because that's what will get him fired.

Posted by MelloDawg

10:59 PM, Aug 17, 2008

Also to jed....you're really blaming Rick Neuheisel for the fact that Stanback struggled against USC? That is an absolute reach if you ask me. How about the fact that USC is a flat out dominant team in all aspects of the game and certainly were the year that Stanback played them?

I don't care what kind of offensive line you had that year, USC would have plowed through it.

Posted by BoiseTruth

11:54 PM, Aug 17, 2008


OK, I've calmed down a little.

Neb,
I'm getting better. I didn't lobby for the media to have access this year. I don't have any problem with Tyee members getting access to special events and functions related to UW football. You're absolutely right that the Tyee's have to get something extra for their money, or their wouldn't be any incentive to donate. I guess I tend to think that Tyee's should have access to functions where space may be limited (or at a premium), and can't support the general public. Example - events held in the James Center (or other such venues) that I'd like to go to (not really) but are reserved for the Tyee's. That type of thing is great with me if that's how they want to spend their time and money. It seems that most schools have three fall scrimmages, I'd be good with the Tyee's having access to all of them, if the general public had access to just one of them. I don't want Tyee access for free. I just want one open scrimmage where fans, and their kids can enjoy a couple of hours on a late, sunny, summer afternoon watching the team they care about play some ball, and have some fun. Even if it's just practice ball. I think it's a great way to make fans, and maybe even Tyee members of the future. I think that's also good marketing. Always good to hear from you Neb, glad you responded. Thanks

Posted by BoiseTruth

12:32 AM, Aug 18, 2008


FG

Sorry you didn't get the invite after paying your dues. That really sucks.

Closed practices are the "in" thing in CFB. I'm not sure how many struggling programs, with huge rifts in the fan base, and a coach on the hot-seat do it, but my guess is not many. I think most programs that are in the shape UW is in would be trying to build good relations with the media, and fans. I guess I could also be wrong about that.

I liked your theory of TW placating the Tyee members. I've never been involved with them so I don't really know what the big money or power seeking guys get from all this so I'll let it go.

I understand the frustration with how TW handled, or didn't handle the MRI thing. With TW it's not one thing, it's a bunch of little things that add up. You just have to scratch your in amazement, and wonder how someone could make such easy things seem this hard. Why? That's all I can say.

Ultimately, I guess it doesn't matter that much cause you know what we're going to do. We're going to regroup, support the team, and hope for the best for the program. Why? Cause that's really all we can do.

As Irwin Fletcher would say, a few wins will make it all better. Hi Irwin. Saw you on the board the other day, and just wanted to say hello. You've been gone awhile.

Posted by onewoodwacker

5:39 AM, Aug 18, 2008

Geez Mello -

I'm usually pretty fair and I've tried to always give you the same respect, but comparing the antics of RN to TW is off the charts wrong.

If I ever hear that TW called the Prosecuting Atty's office to request interference or cover-up of Izbicki's legal problems then I'll apologize to you.

You're speculating that TW has acted the same as RN: Legal documents proved RN's actions, no such thing exists for TW.

You seem to be mixing up these coach's character with their ability to coach football. Obviously two different things.

The biggest problem with RN was that he obviously did not LOVE the UW like we as fans wanted him to. There is no indication that TW feels that way either and I believe is a big reason why his leash is wrapped around his neck so tight.

We want a coach who loves Washington Huskies Football like we do. Some one who treats this as a job instead of a passion turns us off. Personally, thats why I wanted them to hire Jim Mora so bad. He expressed his LOVE for this program and it was from the heart.

That being said - RN and TW are not in the same character basket and I doubt they ever will be.

Posted by Banned

8:05 AM, Aug 18, 2008

Mello, like classic Negas, sees doom and gloom, all to be solved by firing Ty. He never sees the bright side of anything.

Some of you are are spending a surprising amount of energy engaging Mellow.The language is all polite but good luck trying to get him to be balanced or reasonable.

Posted by DAWGONE in AZ

8:09 AM, Aug 18, 2008

Formerly Guest:

Yes, the constant blathering of pro/con TW is a little mind numbing, especially considering the point of the season we are in.

Only thing to complain about right now would be recruiting issues...it's the only thing we can reflect on, given the timeliness of the subject...can't complain about anything else, since the season hasn't even started yet. Let the boys take the field and see if: (1) our defense stiffens; (2) Locker is more accurate; (3) we begin to make second half adjustments...(and a ton others, replacement for Rankin, Polk turns into a stud, receivers blossom, O-line holds in the spread...etc.)

FULL BACK in the SPREAD OFFENSE:
Yes, from Bob's comments and husky history, it looks like the FB position might be a strength.

How will it be incorporated in the spread?...This gets me a little worried...I'm not sold in the spread...why?

(1) It seems everyone is going to it, so it's what their defense sees all the time in practice;
(2) Are we really that fast enough? Do we have enough Polks and Lockers? Those two might be enough, but if we had a stud receiving back in addition, then the spread might make more sense;
(3) I rather just see smash-mouth Husky football from the time of old, with a nice 15-25 yd catch here and there. Pushing the team down the field appearing as though our boys live in the weight room.

Anyways, the spread will open lanes for both blitzing on the defensive end and (pick the right hole) quick 10-15 up the middle runs on the offensive end...

So perhaps while the TE won't be getting continual 3-4 yard carries with the spread, having a great blocker and a slashing big runner to bounce off one or two guys up the middle will prove very valuable in the spread.

We'll see...

Posted by DAWGONE in AZ

8:12 AM, Aug 18, 2008

From my post above:

Yes, I realize Polk is now considered a TB...my point is that I'd like to see a third super-athlete on the offense for the spread to be effective.

Posted by DAWGONE in AZ

8:45 AM, Aug 18, 2008

One quick comment about Media closed off to practices...they are getting what they deserve.

It would be nice to have these practices open to the public...but I still can't stand the Times for the horrible series done earlier this year.

Any way to keep the media out and let the fans in? They are kind of doing this with the Tyee thing, but that whole situation seems a little smug...they get their breakfasts with the team, why limit practices to those fans only...let the metro-ridding rest of us access too.

Just keep the media out.

Posted by iowa husky

8:57 AM, Aug 18, 2008

Dawgone, interesting comment about the spread. The only thing I'll add is this: neither of the two teams that played for the NC last year (LSU and OSU) use a spread.

concerning all the responses to Mellodawg, I'm actually surprised to see them. He's not worth the time, for obvious reasons. Let him say what he wants and ignore him. It's a strategy that works for when used against all grade schoolers.

Posted by Caldawg

9:05 AM, Aug 18, 2008

What a surprise there are two sports journalists that can think for themselves, Brewer and Giglio. Most just follow the crowd, This is going to be a fun season, at least at first. Lots of talent. That and some luck and the Huskies will be in a bowl.

This whole bus think is another example of the government putitng their nose in where it shouldn't. What a mess things are going to be if there isn't free bus rides to the Husky games. I will have to start driving to the games again. What a mess.

Posted by DAWGONE in AZ

9:21 AM, Aug 18, 2008

Caldawg:

What a bummer...I thought I had read that the husky games would be unaffected, but I went back a reread the article and:

"Meanwhile, Gillis said she intends to bid on transportation for University of Washington Husky fans."

With a private bid, the Metro service goes away.

This means we'll now most likely be paying to ride to the Husky games (hopefully UW covers partial costs, so we're not paying $25 per person).

Also, since they can't use the park and ride lots, we'll be waiting in line ON THE STREET!!! What a complete traffic MESS!

Just like you said, gov't gets involved and we end up paying more for an inferior service.

An absolute awesome service, reducing traffic and getting us home faster, now going away due to gov't meddling.

Pathetic.

Posted by Iowa Husky

9:46 AM, Aug 18, 2008

dawgone,

Iowa city has one of the best public transportation systems in the nation. It is ran by the government. Mexico had one of the best train systems in the world. It was privatized and completely collapsed.

Posted by Caldawg

9:55 AM, Aug 18, 2008

The bus deal sucks. It will be more cost effective for two people to drive and park at the stadium. Then in what a year or two they start that work out there and WOW! So 2 game tickets about $30 each, 2 Alaska airline tickets at $250 each, rental car $125, and now 2 bus tickets at $25. Sure hope these guys are competitive. I'm may have to reconsider this whole season ticket thing. They look good on my HD. And the results are the same.

Posted by DAWGONE in AZ

9:59 AM, Aug 18, 2008

Iowa:

You may have missed my point, I think we are both agreeing (privatization screwing up a fine service provided by a quasi-gov't agency).

This is a case of gov't protecting the pursuits of private business (for the worse). The FTA changed the rules to allow private industry to have priority bids over services currently provided by quasi-gov't agencies. Even if the private co's bid doesn't meet the quality or cost of the current service.

If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it...

Here you have a case of a quasi-gov't entity doing a fine job and now losing it to provide opportunity to private business. Nothing wrong with that, but if that private business has not proven a better solution to what currently is offered...in fact it's a worse service, at a higher cost.

This is not free market bidding.

Posted by Seattle Dave

10:00 AM, Aug 18, 2008

Yeah, the gov't is "meddling" only in the sense that the feds are taking AWAY a local gov't service by rule, and privatizing it. Privatization doesn't always make for the best outcome.

On the Simone thing, less concerned about losing him as a player than about TW and Coach Gerv's inability to get a commit from one of his own guys. That bodes ill.

Posted by DAWGONE in AZ

10:10 AM, Aug 18, 2008

OK, maybe "meddling" wasn't the best term, sure the gov't is doing this with good intentions to protect private business for the better, but it doesn't succeed...and this is a perfect example of why.

Why shut the gov't out of the bidding process?

On bids involving a single bid from a single private company, there is little there to ensure efficiencies...quasi-gov't agencies should be able to bid on these and all contracts.

It pushes the private companies toward efficiency and betters the consumer. (And perhaps Metro will make a penny and lessen our tax burden.)

Posted by MelloDawg

10:27 AM, Aug 18, 2008

onewood,

I know, it's a touchy subject. Again, I'm not saying that the actions of RN and TW are exactly the same just because they had players who had legal troubles. My only contention is that if people are blaming Neuheisel for letting the team become (and stay) rapists and drug users, then you can blame Willingham for not seeing the problems with guys like Hasty. There have been a number of posts which absolve Ty of any blame and call Hasty a spoiled brat that Ty shouldn't need to babysit.

He dealt with it by kicking Hasty off the team, but we don't necessarily know why. We just take Ty at his word and don't bother questioning his metrics by which he measures bad behavior...same with earning 5th year. Just saying, some clarity would be nice.

Posted by Seattle Dave

10:33 AM, Aug 18, 2008

Whoa, where was it proved that RN called the prosecutor's office to request special treatment for Stevens? I don't think even the Times went that far. And if it was RN's fault for keeping him on the team, it was at least as much Lambo's fault for recruiting him in the first place, considering he was already a violent criminal before he ever came to UW.

Posted by MelloDawg

11:27 AM, Aug 18, 2008

Again, Typologists usually need a scapegoat to excuse Willingham from losing his first 3 years. Mark my words, if Ty doesn't win this year, people will STILL say it's because the program was in shambles.

Posted by uwlb

12:27 PM, Aug 18, 2008

Why would Heaps want to come to UW with Jake Locker at the helm??

I would have went else where to if he wants to play anytime soon..

Posted by Seattle Dave

12:37 PM, Aug 18, 2008

We are talking about Simone (the WR), not Heaps. Heaps is class of 2010, so his career will not overlap Locker's at all unless Locker stays for his fifth year while Heaps is a true freshman.

Posted by Formerly Guest

12:59 PM, Aug 18, 2008

Dawg-gone in AZ,

I think LSU instituted a little QB running spread stuff for the NC game, specifically since tOSU had struggled defening against it.

I think our game against tOSU last year was one of many that illustrated your point. We just didn't haev the team speed to really make it work, other then Jake springing loose for a number of long runs. Otherwise, it seemed we couldn't really move the ball.

Hopefully our speed is improved this year, that we can really keep the field spread out and take adavantage of those 1:1 match-ups.

I guess that generated my question about use of our FBs. Using them frequently seems to impair the spread a lot, in that it clogs things up rather than spreads thing out.

I was out of town for the Cal game so I didn't see it. While I think there was some element of them rolling over for us (as well as most opponents during the 2nd half of the season last year), it seemed we really ran the ball down their throats? Was it that we were using smash-mouth I-formation football, our personel other than Jake are better suited to that, and this is why we were successful?

I really like seeing us use the spread since Jake is such an amazing runner. But it seems with it we have been 1 dimensional at times...if Jake doesn't break a big run, we can't move the ball.

Posted by huskynation

1:23 PM, Aug 18, 2008

praise jesus.

Posted by poster

2:23 PM, Aug 18, 2008

FG,

One of the benefits of the spread is deception. It slows the defense by making them have to guard separate threats. Part of why Dixon was so successful running it at Oregon was his speed, but I'd argue a bigger part was his Houdini like execution. In this way, a FB run can be very effective to take another step away from the D, particularly after QB runs and delayed handoffs work. Often times the value of the play is not for what that play provides in yardage itself, but by how much it contributes for later plays.

But this is just one reason to be considered when evaluating the FB runs, it could very well be you're still right.

Posted by Formerly Guest

3:43 PM, Aug 18, 2008

Poster,
I think one other thing was that when they got their non-DIxon guys in the open-field with the ball, they could do something with it. Another difference was when they handed off to Stewart, the play took a milisecond to develop. When Jake handed off to Rankin or another back, it seemed like it took 5 seconds for it to develop. I don't know if that is on JAke, the back, or both. And I think that Jake's reads were not always 100% correct, but what do I know?

Posted by poster

4:02 PM, Aug 18, 2008

FG,

I watched some more tape of the Oregon - UW game and two things caught my eye.

(1) They often lined Stewart up as a fullback as the first option on a counter dive. I thought it was more of a wing-back set but it appeared he was up closer to the line than the other back. If so, this is obviously a quick first hand-off since it isn't always coming from a deeper set back.
(2) Perhaps even more interesting, was how Dixon carried out the fake (or not) on the hand-off. He didn't pause and read and let the running back do all the "fake", he took a jab-step in the opposite direction as the fake immediately when the running back was going the other way. This is actually pretty significant in that it can cause the defense to read both and therefore cause delay. A very tricky trick indeed. Now, the one thing I'd like to do is break down the film even more and see if there is any alignment differences that trended the option one way or the other. The spread-option is tough in that it hides the intended ball carrier somewhat since the QB may make the decision on the field, but sometimes you can figure out due to alignments that they are lining up in a spread-option formation but calling a specific ball carrier to be the primary ball carrier (absent a contrary read by the QB).

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Aug 18, 08 - 12:37 PM
Emmert speaks

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