I think it said a lot about how out of touch Tom Hansen is with modern times when he didn't even know how to prounounce Tuitamas' name during the Pac10 Media Day press conference.

As long Leland is ready to stick it to programs cheating the system *coughUSCcough*, and knows how to negotiate better national tv contracts for football and basketball, I'm all for him.

I was going to post this about dancing on the 0 on the previous thread but saw the new one so will post it here:

I would say though, and I hope that other Pac-10 schools note it, that Rick Neuheisel did not represent what Husky Football and what Husky Fans are all about. Yes, he got us a 11-1 record, a Rose Bowl win and also got us to the Holiday bowl the next year, but I wasn't happy at all with dancing on the 0.

I don't know many Husky fans who thought that was cool either. Maybe briefly at the time of the win, but I remember it generating a lot of controversy when it happened. Don James hadn't even been gone a decade and he wouldn't have ever let that crap happen...don't think Lambo (however flawed as a HC) would've either. Do most successful businessmen gloat when they win a deal or outmanuever an opponent or do they act like they've been there before because they have won a lot?

I want players who love to win, love to hit, and wouldn't mind dancing on someone else's school logo, but would rather not because that's not how they act in victory. I want Huskies who hate to lose more than they love to win so they are just happy not to have lost, shake hands with the guys they just grounded and pounded for 4 quarters, and then go back into the locker room to celebrate before working hard throughout the next week to avoid the terrible anger and pain of losing yet another week.

HFNY - I totally agree, I want those kind of players at UO, too. I was just point out that the dancing on the O and the weasel were things that intensified the bitterness of the rivalry.

I know, just wanted to highlight that it was a blip and not how Husky teams and fans should be remembered.

And I don't want any of those types of players going to other Pac-10 schools, they belong at UW! You and the other schools can take all the softies (aka Neuheisel patty-cake).

Oh heavens to Murgatroyd HFNY. God forbid our guys briefly celebrate after winning a big game. I will take dancing on the O every time if the alternative is the brand of Husky football we have had ever since those guys left the team.

ah yes, the Neuheisel patty cake softies who danced on the O (because, you know, they'd just WON THE DANG GAME) and went 15-10 over Neu's last two years. You're right, we sure haven't had any of that kind of patty cake softness lately.

Seattle Dave, I hear what you're saying but winning and winning the right way aren't mutually exclusive. Don James did it, Lambo did it at times, but Neuheisel didn't. He was 7-6 his last year but all his dalliances with the 49'ers and others hurt recruiting and the program in general more than anyone realized at the time.

Plus, once Lambo's tough-nosed recruits were gone, we became more and more of a finesse team. It's no coincidence that last year was the first time we had a 1,000 yard rusher since Lambo.

Seattle Dave:

Yes, Neuheisel went 15-10 his last two years ... but, if you look closer, he had an 18-2 record from the beginning of his second season until just before the OSU game in 2001 ... after that moment, he went 8-9.

Granted, that's better than where we've been recently, but based on what Neuheisel inherited, it's terrible.

Plus, he ended the 2001 season:

Losing to OSU 49-24
Losing to Miami 65-7
Losing to Texas 46-43 (blowing a 19 point third quarter lead)

Arguably the worst stretch of Husky defense in the history of the program ... especially when considering the year before we'd finished #3 in the nation

He followed that season up in 2002 by losing to Cal (at home, no less) for the first time in 26 years ... we also rushed for under 100 yards a game, which I think was HFNYs point about the Dawgs becoming soft.

Under Neuheisel we started the descent from a one loss team to a one win team in a four-year stretch -- if not the most precipitous drop in college football history, it must be close ...

But that seems to be his trademark - take over a solid, disciplined, tough, talented program and within two years after he's gone, they SUCK

re: 49'er dalliances, you are right on. That's a separate issue.

Your point re the 1000 yard rusher would be stronger were it not Louis Rankin, the epitome fo a finesse runner, with his reliance on speed, fifty million shimmie shakes, and trying to hit the home run, instead of sticking it in there behind his blockers.

Seattle Dave:

I think you made HFNYs point about toughness by citing Rankin -- the Dawgs as a unit were so tough they could even get Rankin, "the epitome of a finesse runner, with his reliance on speed, fifty million shimmie shakes, and trying to hit the home run, instead of sticking it in there behind his blockers", to 1000 yards ...

True about Rankin though he was coached up Wllingham and Trent Miles to be more physical, especially on short yardage situations, to get the dang first down instead of going for the TD. And, Denbrock coached up, developed, and recruited a fairly nasty OL last year that helped make it possible. I expect even better things since it's more veteran, especially when Garcia comes back. Happy that Habben played a good amount as a RS-Frosh so he can step in nicely to start at RT.

Well I think we better make up our minds right now about whether we're going to dance on the O again. Costa was only offered by Utah, and BSU so this game is a sure win for UW. Wait a minute didn't Utah, and BSU go to BCS games with their crappy QB's that nobody wanted? Oh, I remember now. They were just playing crappy MWC, and WAC. It's still a sure win for UW. I scared myself for a minute.

thorn, if losing to an Erickson coached OSU team, national champion Miami in Miami, and Texas (a game that we were in in the last minute) is the worst stretch of Husky D ever, what was the ASU-Oregon-Arizona stretch last year?

Nice arbitrary selection of a 17-game stretch there. Dunno why you had to pick a prime number but hey. The 8-9 is still also better than any 17 game stretch Ty has had here.

Look I agree Neu started the decline. He had his issues, they are legion and well chronicled. But had he stayed there is no way in heck we'd have hit the depths we hit. And had we hired better replacements we'd be better today. That is what is relevant now, not what Neu did 6 years ago.

I long for the days when the soft 7-6 team and dancing on the O were the "problems" with Husky football.

...didn't Leland hire willingham at Stanford...that should be enough to end any other job possibilities...as the stench will still be following him around...

PS thorn I love how you weight your argument by saying "especially considering we'd finished #3 in teh nation the year before" hmm who coached that #3 team?

That 7-6 team dancing on the 0 was like Charlie Weis...on the way to disaster with Type 2 diabetes and being morbidly obese but the underlying problems weren't entirely visible yet. Here's to 2008 being what stomach stapling was to Charlie "Eat Like A Champion Today" Weis!!!!!!!!!!

HFNY, you want 2008 to put us in a coma, then reduce us from morbidly obese to merely obese?

Ha, that is like "Hey kid, I eat sh*t like you for breakfast" and the kid says, "You eat sh*t for breakfast"?

What I really meant is that hopefully 2008 will give us new life just like stomach stapling gave Chuck Weis one.

I know, I was just jumping on board with your theme for the benefit of our friends from ND. ;)

Seattle Dave:

I don't think you read my entire post -- I stated right in it that 8-9 was better than we've been ...

Yes, I know Neuheisel coached the team to #3 in the nation ... of course they weren't his players, but that's beside the point ...

You chose to compare last year's ASU-Oregon-Arizona stretch with the Husky defense in 2001 by stating that OSU was coached by Dennis Erickson -- umm, hello, he was the coach for ASU ... and the OSU team still hung more points on us than ASU did last year ...

There was nothing arbitary about choosing a 17-game stretch - they were specifically chosen as they were the last 17 games he coached ... to illuminate my point that he started us on the downfall ...

There's no guarantee had he stayed that we wouldn't have continued to get worse ... if Colorado is any example ...

And, what happened under Neuheisel is directly relevant to what's going on now ... who's being arbitrary now

As for making a better hiring decision, there's no way to know that -- perhaps if we'd hired somebody different we would be farther along ... my guess is that Stanford thought they'd hired the right guys in Teevens and Harris, and ASU probably thought they'd made a great hire in Koetter ... you never know

Do you truly long for the days of being 7-6 and soft and dancing on the "O"?

I remember sitting in Husky Stadium during our 7-6 season and watching us to Cal for the first time since I was 11 years old ... shoot, I thought things had gotten bad under Lambo watching the Cougs clinch a Rose Bowl berth ...

Things ARE worse now, but at least we're headed in the right direction in terms of talent, discipline, speed, and toughness -- whether or not TW is the guy to get us back to competing for conference championships and taking us to bowls on a regular basis, I'm certainly not convinced ...

But, I will never, NEVER, N-E-V-E-R long for the days of Rick Neuheisel

...oops...I meant to say at 12:52 that the stench will still be following ME around...can't get rid of the danged thing...

"I know Neuheisel coached the team to #3 in the nation ... of course they weren't his players, but that's beside the point ..." (actually some were including key players like Alexis, but I agree, that's beside the point)

"You chose to compare last year's ASU-Oregon-Arizona stretch with the Husky defense in 2001 by stating that OSU was coached by Dennis Erickson -- umm, hello, he was the coach for ASU ... and the OSU team still hung more points on us than ASU did last year ... "

Umm, hello, I know who the coach is at ASU. Do you know who won the national championship in '01? Here is a hint, it was in the part of my argument that you left out. OSU-Miami-Texas '01 was a far tougher stretch of opponents than ASU-Oregon-Arizona '07, esp. when you consider home vs. road games.

"There was nothing arbitary about choosing a 17-game stretch - they were specifically chosen as they were the last 17 games he coached ... to illuminate my point that he started us on the downfall ..."

It is arbitrary precisely because you picked his last 17 games (since when is a 17-game stretch the usual standard?) to suit your argument, rather than the whole last two seasons. You could just as easily have picked some other stretch like 13 games or 16 games that cut the other way.

"what happened under Neuheisel is directly relevant to what's going on now ... " why? which of his players are left? (Answer, only Juan Garcia, who hardly fits the mold of the soft guy label) It is only relevant insofar as we went out of our way to hire an anti-Neu in Ty who has decidedly cifferent qualities. How's that working out for us?

"Do you truly long for the days of being 7-6 and soft and dancing on the "O"?"

I long for winning some damn games, and don't really care whether or not we dance on the O or rack up style points in doing so.

.."At Washington [Neuheisel] was 33-16 and 23-9 in conference"... this was just a teeny, tiny bit better than willingham's UW record...wasn't it?...

Seattle Dave:

Well, I'm with you on winning ... and forced at gunpoint to choose between winning (while dancing and being a finesse team) to losing I would choose winning ...

So, I grant you that -- however, I would PREFER to win by being physical, playing stout defense, and having great special teams ...

Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?

Neuheisel makes my eye twitch (kinda like Chief Inspector Dreyfuss in the Pink Panther movies)

..."At Washington [Neuheisel] was 33-16 and 23-9 in conference"... this was just a teeny, tiny bit better than willingham's UW record...wasn't it?...

...I'm glad you asked!...it was a "bit" better...willingham is 11-25 during his three years at UW...6-20 in conference...

...nice job...

hello...is anyone out there? anyone out there who can help me? jh's head is up in my personal space again and it's really uncomfortable. i wish his head would be back to its normal place so i can have my rectum just to myself...oh the horror...the horror...

...so THAT'S where the stench that's been following me around is coming from...

...facts hurt, boys?...or is it girls?...

Posted by jh

2:25 PM, Jul 30, 2008

...facts hurt, boys?...or is it girls?..."

really? what are you, 12? trying to insult somebody by referring to them as a "girl"?

oh, the pain -- how will we ever recover from such biting, insightful, razorlike wit?

Rick vs. willingham:

...33-16 (0.673) UW career compared to 11-25 (0.305)...

...23-9 (0.719) in conference compared to 6-20 (0.231)...

...20th average recruiting ranking(Rivals.com) compared to 32nd...

...yea...I can see why the willingham apologists are so secure in their "Rick" putdowns...

jh:

see if you can grasp this -- but, my guess is you can't ...

it is possible for a person to NOT think Neuheisel was a good coach ...

AND ...

NOT be a TW apologist ...

they are NOT mutually exclusive

since you think TW is a terrible coach -- comparing Neuheisel to TW is not much of a compelling argument that Neuheisel is a good coach

...I've never stated that rick is a good coach...but, as coaches are only good or bad by comparison...I'm merely comparing his "awful" record to the current coach's...

...see if you can grasp that...

thoughts on the offense:

One of the (many) things that drove me nuts last year was the way the offense put up its numbers. This may seem petty, but please indulge me.

It seemed we'd go 3 and out, 3 and out, homerun, 3 and out, 3 and out, 3 and out... At the end of the game, we'd have a good pile of yards and several points. But, I felt like we couldn't hold onto the ball when we needed to do it. Sometimes just making 4 first downs and punting can be a successful offensive series -- gain field position, rest the defense, burn some clock (if you're ahead), gain some confidence.

At any rate, I think Rankin's style of running is a perfect example of this. He might end a game with 120 yards, but 75% of it would come from 2 runs!

Maybe the numbers won't back me up on this one, but it just seemed like our offense was very poor at grinding out drives. And while the homerun is great, I think the benefits of long drives are actually better. What's more, I think the long drives can actually set up the homerun nicely.

Is the homerun a Lappano thing? Did anyone else notice this tendency of the offense?

jh:

what, exactly, am i to grasp?

that you don't think TW is a good coach? that's not exactly a secret ...

and who ever wrote that Neuheisel had an "awful" record ... certainly I did not

of course, using your methodology TW is a better coach than Bill Walsh ...

RC:

I think part of the reason our offense seemed to stagnate in the way you suggest is that our passing game was maddeningly inconsistent -- be it dropped passes or Jake's being erratic.

Still, I think Lappano deserves some slack - with a RS-Frosh QB and no other consistent offensive playmaker we averaged nearly 30 points a game against the toughest schedule in the country.

Think of it another way: Was there a single game (taken in whole) where our offense let the defense down? i.e. Did the defense play well enough to win, but the offense just didn't get it done?

...who was even speaking to you? who are you?...

...as good as Locker is...and he is a great running threat...willingham's offense will fail without an alternative running game and a passing game...college is too competitive not to overcome a "one-trick" offense...especially one that willingham has something to do with...

good points, mfsthorn --

I just recall a few games specifically where I felt like we tried to get everything in one play rather than took what was there. Hawaii comes to mind recently. We needed drives, but instead we were throwing bombs -- often on first down. It was almost like we were trying to get back momentum in one play when a long drive was probably a better option to calm down the Hawaii rally.

Maybe I was just being overly senstiive, but there were times that I felt like our offense wasn't satisfied taking 2-5 yards. And their are times when even 2 or 3 yards is a good play. (or at least compared to zero.)

Does anyone keep stats on how many plays went for zero or negative yards? If so, I'd be curious to know how many times that happened with our offense. It seemed like a lot to me.

RC:

I agree, we did seem to have a real knack for going three-and-out ... but even in the Hawaii game our receiver (Reece) dropped the tying score ... shoot, if he'd just dropped it that would've been better instead of kicking it to the other team ...

Also in that game, we had a drive-killing penalty that this year would not be a penalty ...

I think, at times, Lappano was too concerned with being balanced, which led us to throw maybe more than we should have ...

As a Duck fan I thought Neuheisel's bringing the team out to dance on the "O" was brilliant.

If the Ducks dont like it, dont lose the game. If they want payback, win next year....which they did not.

Rick is a coach, but also a showman. He was rekindling a rivalry, creating anticipation for the next year. As a Duck fan I was not so much offended by the dancing on the "O" as I was by my team's performance on the field.

RC-
everyone had the same observation about our offense.

MFSTHORN-
Yes, there are games when the O totally let down the D. USC is one, tOSU maybe another. D kept us in it as long as they could...although not dropping INTs and the blown call on the fumble didn't help.

MFSTHORN again-
Like the 2:36 pm post. Really liked it. Yes, JH is 12, emotionally.

AZ Duck-

Thanks for taking the higher road on that, sometimes it's hard to swallow. I as a Husky Fan was pissed at the players and coaches for letting it happen.

Yeah, I'm probably "Old School" now (53 and counting!), but I liked sports so much better when you played for pride instead of ego - you patted a guy on the helmet, you helped a guy up off the ground vs. the rolling on the ground, groin thrusting, pointing your finger, front & back flipping, etc. bulls..t that goes on today.

You know, the culture of hype and trash talking has been part of big time sports for the better part of 30 years now (at least) and isn't likely to change.

Would I have had my guys dance on the O if I were coach? No. I'd have kept the celebration in our locker room, or with our fans' section. But it ain't a firing offense in a Husky coach to disrespect the Ducks in a minor way.

Onewoodwacker,

You bring up a whole other point.... Sportsmanship and class in athletics.

Funny thing is, the teams that are hardest to read, the most mentally tough, that are unflappable...are those who let their play do their talking.

Have always enjoyed the quote when it comes to a touchdown celebration; "act like you have been there before."

An interesting game this season should be the Florida Georgia game after GA's team celebration. Meyer is still upset about it. I think his public reaction is weak though....but behind closed doors with his team a reaction would be appropriate.

AZ Duck - Amen!! Good luck this season.

Onewoodwacker;
thank you and good luck as well!