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Chief political reporter David Postman explores state, regional and national politics.

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July 16, 2008 11:22 AM

The search for young conservatives

Posted by David Postman

This is from Will Mari, a Times editorial intern, and friend of the blog:

It’s a pleasant summer evening at Enatai Beach Park in Bellevue. The sun is shining, dogs are barking, kids are kicking soccer balls and young Republicans are, well, socializing.

Yes, that’s right.

Twenty-something conservatives do exist, and they’re getting increasingly active, said 22-year-old Peter Cowman, the director of MoveRed, the King County Republican Party’s “youth coalition,” an outreach effort aimed at the 16-28-year-old age bracket.

“We recognize that for the first time in a long time, young people have the opportunity to lead and take responsibility at a young age,” Cowman said.

The former Marine is a senior majoring in political science at the University of Washington. He’s a firm believer in the value of getting involved; the younger, the better.

As if to illustrate his point, Cowman assembled about 100 or so like-minded young conservatives on Monday night for MoveRed’s summer BBQ, marking the group’s one-year anniversary.

Several local GOP favorites were on hand, including Washington state Attorney General Rob McKenna, and Nick Bozarth, the 22-year-old mayor of Napavine, recently profiled in The Times.

Steve Litzow, the Mercer Island councilman running for state representative from the 41st District; Todd Gibson, running in the 33rd District; and Glenn Anderson, running for re-election from the 5th Legislative District, also showed up to stump.

“It’s about connecting with people and listing to people,” said Gibson. “That’s the way we’re going to win, that’s the way we’re going to make a difference.”

The “people” he was referring to are the elusive youth vote, something the Grand Old Party has seemingly conceded to the Democratic Party.

“Frankly, it’s not often that you get so many young Republicans in the same place,” said Patrick Bell, spokesman for the state Republican Party.

Until now, that is.

“We’re going to inherit our government” and party, Bozarth said, a feeling echoed by Lori Sotelo, the chairwoman for the King County Republican Party.

“What better testimony for the older generation that we’re doing the right thing?” she asked.

But Sotelo said the party could do a better job with recruiting younger members, and sees MoveRed’s efforts as a critical part of keeping the local GOP alive beyond this fall’s election.

“I believe that it’s building for the future,” she said. “This kind of outreach gives young people the opportunity to get their feet wet, getting experience in the political process and getting the word out.”

In an election year where “Obamamania” has fired up college campuses across the nation, the GOP is doing its part to capitalize on as much of that movement as possible.

“If you don’t bring young people into the fold, then you’re finished within a generation” as a party, McKenna said.

“Each generation needs someone to get them inspired and catch on,” he said.

Sen. John McCain has admittedly has had a harder time than Sen. Barack Obama when it comes to connecting with young voters, he said, but that could change if McCain taps someone such as Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, a 37-year-old Indian American.

In the meantime, Cowman plans on rallying as much youth support as he can for the local and national party.

“The research shows that if you ask young people to get involved, they will,” he said.

“These people are the future. We are developing leaders; in our ranks are future radio talk show hosts, legislators, attorney generals and governors.”

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Posted by Tinkerbell Hilton

1:11 PM, Jul 16, 2008

MoveRed is a kick-butt organization!!! There is NOTHING else like this group in WA State. The Nov. '08 momentum is building and MoveRed is a key player in the Red Momentum!!!

Posted by Former Republican

1:21 PM, Jul 16, 2008

Back when I was that age, I too was a Republican. Back when the Party believed in balanced budgets, fiscal restraint, competency in governance, and respect for the environment -- like Teddy Roosevelt. But the Party has abandoned such fundamental principals. I didn't abandon the Party, it abandoned me.

I have to wonder, what principles are attracting this new crop of young people to attach themselves to the Party?

Posted by JM

1:29 PM, Jul 16, 2008

Visit It's their website. To be honest, I'm frankly surprised by the extreme nature of much of the content on the site and the fact that the KC Republican Party supports it. Also, my contact with young GOP members (recent UW grad.) finds many of them upset with the King County as well as the state Republican party. It seems to me the folks that are joining movered and the young Republican movement in general are as "right wing" as their older peers who have tried to run the party like those of red states, when Washington is a blue state.

If I were a young Republican,I would not be optimistic about the future political viability of my party in Washington State. One would think youth would bring a breath of fresh air into a out-of-touch state party. Nonetheless, this seems to be the farthest thing from the case...

Posted by C'mon

2:11 PM, Jul 16, 2008

I think young people in Washington are sick to death of the status quo Tax-and-Squander policies of the Democrats. They see a 39 year Government Bureaucrat, Gov. Gregoire, as a huge part of the problem. They see having the same Democratic Party control the Governor's seat in Olympia for 28 years leading to entrenched bureaucrats and bureaucracies.
They see Gregoire's excessive spending resulting in a $2.7 BILLION Deficit in the upcoming biennium and absolutely no plan on how to fix it.

Some young folks use their heads JM.
They don't fall for Obama's "life is riding a Unicorn thru flower beds" ideology. Many are upset with the Republican Party....and determined to get it headed back in a more fiscally responsible direction.

Not all kids drink the Evergreen College Kool-aid.

Posted by Morgan - Newcastle, WA

4:02 PM, Jul 16, 2008

Great article. It is good to see the good wholesome passion coming out at a young age. Many of the people I know from 18 - 18 are somewhat apathetic. All they really know is George W. Bush, who is often an embarassment for both Democrats and Republicans.

We need to work on the future of our country and this age will be future leaders. We need people who can intelligently undersand and address issues affecting all of us.

Posted by Ryan

4:33 PM, Jul 16, 2008

I think it's Tom Tomorrow who keeps making the point that the young Republicans could do crackerjack work for the party by enlisting and going to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I wish them well as they back up the party line with real commitment.

Posted by AD

7:09 PM, Jul 16, 2008

Ryan uses a tired left-wing line -- all young Republicans should join the military.

Well, as one (still slightly) young Republican who is now in the military, let me say that's BS. I was allowed to have political opinions before I joined and my service doesn't change that.

Does Ryan believe that only those who serve are allowed to have opinions about Iraq or Afghanistan? Then Ryan should show some deference to the vets who have served and support the war on terror at MUCH greater levels than the actual population.

Posted by AD

7:31 PM, Jul 16, 2008

Oh, and for the record, Peter Cowman was a Marine. Ryan must have assumed none of these young Republicans haven't actually already done their service.

Posted by JimD

7:56 PM, Jul 16, 2008

I hope they have a more humane agenda than the young republicans from the 80's - who took deregulation, corporate governance and scandal to a whole new level as today's middle-aged republicans.

They should call themselves the "Young GOP" and re-birth the party in the form of it's TRULY conservative ideology - not the incompetent, ill-tempered, deceitful, bible-thumping, constitution harassing, hate-spewing, screaming midget freak show the republican party has decayed into...

We'll certainly need some balance ahead after the democrats have had control for a while.

Posted by John

8:06 PM, Jul 16, 2008

" To be honest, I'm frankly surprised by the extreme nature of much of the content on the site and the fact that the KC Republican Party supports it."

Please be honest JM and tell us what you found "extreme" on the site?

Posted by JimD

8:47 PM, Jul 16, 2008

I cruised MoveRed for a while and found it relatively non-offensive and rather tame.
Nothing "extreme" to my eyes.

I admire those who've put it together and the organization they're working to create.
I find this new breed of young republicans a refreshing change from the older generations that veered off course and ruined the brand.
MoveRed has no immigrant bashing, no whining about gay marriage, no hysterical claims of reverse discrimination, no demands to post the Ten Commandants like the Pepsi logo, no "I'm more patriotic than you" get the picture.
I kind of like them.
In fact, some folks here could take a lesson from MoveRed in civil, respectful and intelligent discourse.

However - what's missing is any constructive solutions to the many, many, many, many policy faults they find with Gregoire - their main target of course.
Like the Rossi campaign (maybe a little TOO much like the Rossi campaign...?) - their whole pitch is how poor a job Gregoire has done.
Perhaps that's a sign of youth - lots of complaints but no solutions.
They certainly aren't aggressively promoting Rossi per se, that I could tell.

But if this is the mold for the re-birth of the GOP, I very much like their civil spirit and the absence of malice, conceit, a "social agenda" and the inmflamatory intellectual bigotry that drove me away from the party in the first place.

Nice job, folks :-)

Posted by John

10:12 PM, Jul 16, 2008

I didnít understand what offended him it was a normal Republican web site.

I thought it would be interesting visiting the web site.

The Latest Blog/news Items for Christina was dated 6/25/2008 Gov. Opens campaign offices.
Is she still running or did she run away after seeing the surplus disappear?

Iíll check back next week for an update on her.

I went to the blog and scrolled down to some pictures and seen all the Carters except for his daughter.

I know the ďdísí are in big trouble however it did seem funny seeing Jimmy and to remind everyone of Jimmy Carter disaster of 22% interest rates, gas lines, Unemployment reaching an incredible heights and then to hear Obama promising a fairytale solutions to our problems makes Jimmy Carterís four years look wonderful. No wonder Jimmy had a big smile hoping BHO will win.:)

Posted by JM

2:34 AM, Jul 17, 2008

To John:

This is extreme:

Democratic views are really represented here in an honest and "non-extreme" fashion. Why can't Republicans have honest debates about policy, without distorting the facts and using the smoke and mirrors of social issues and illegal immigration? Because the general public would side with the democrats

Another example of the King Country Republican party not encouraging debate over the issues and facts

And also what about the actions of the University of Washington College Republicans- "Islamo-facism week," "hunt an illegal alien,"- the list goes on and on.. I know for a fact that they are constant contact with the KCGOP (Cowan and co. @ movered work with UWCRs and are members).

The bottom line is MoveRed, the King County Republican party, and the Washington State Republican party are out of touch with mainstream voters in Washington State. Not only are they moving debate away from issues that affect the average voter, but they are disingenuously encouraging Republican candidates (i.e. Dino Rossi) to run as affiliated with GOP to confuse voters (23% of WA State voters do not know what GOP stands for). Why canít Dino run as Republican? I really want an honest answer to this, Iím tired of the spin.

Mark my words: The Republican party of Washington state epitomizes the values of George W. Bush and every other right wing Republican. They are not moderate, they are not compromising, and they will do their best to undermine public education, civil rights, and all government programs in Washington State. It is an agenda shared by the ultra conservative Heritage Foundation, and anarchist CATO institute.

Want to bring 4 years of Bush to Washington State? Vote for Dino Rossi. I guarantee heíll mess things up so bad, thatíll take two or three other administrations to fix them (Democratic or independent)

Today's Republicans are not those of the past. The days of Dan Evans, John Spellman, and moderate conservatism/Republican values are over. I wish I could say the young Republicans (some of whom are my friends and even fraternity brothers) are moving in a moderate direction, but they are not. They're going extreme and right-wing, and it's very disappointing.

I hope sometime soon that we can return to era of bipartisan cooperation in Washington State. However, until a more moderate approach is taken by Republicans (excluding a few, i.e. Rep. Skip Priest), our state is doomed to partisanship. And while those on the right will blame the left for this, I would point out that any academic (conservative or liberal) you talk to will note that there has been a rightward shift in American politics. In other words, yesterdayís moderate Republicans are Democrats, and yesterdayís extreme and right-wing Republicans are now rank and file.

So tell me how the KC Republican party and Movered arenít extreme again?

Posted by FormerYoungDemocrat

6:37 AM, Jul 17, 2008

Back when I was young I was involved with "Young Democrats". Back then the party believed in defending the country, believed in national defense. Back then the party didn't automatically presume America was guilty when it was attacked by foreign forces. Back then, during times of war, the Democrat party I knew didn't hope for defeat of our military, didn't uses every legal maneuver to undermine our troops and our national defense.

Back then, Democrats were patriotic. I didn't leave the Democrat Party, it left me.

Posted by John

9:21 AM, Jul 17, 2008

Thank your lucky stars, I'm not your Gov. or President!

I too wished we had bipartisan cooperation in Washington State and also in DC.

The days of my party with Scoop and Magee have past, that was a grand party.

Unfortunately the liberalís stole control and transferred a great party into a cesspool of hate and deception.

A big problem with democrats is they lost any concept of right and wrong. Today the word illegal means to them comrade. Until they become part of mainstream society again the democrat party will be defeated year after year for lack of moral values and twisted leadership.

In 2007 the Democrats took control of our country and transformed a great economy into recession, high inflation, high food prices, high fuel prices, bank failures and stealing food from the poor to payback the bio fuels scammers and other special interest groups.

The Democrats have put a buck and control of power in front of what is best for our country. The lies they passed for truth about the war and our brave troops just to gain power is disgusting and you want more of this.

This is your party Thank God not mine.

Posted by JimD

10:11 AM, Jul 17, 2008

I was trying to point-out the difference between the political culture of MoveRed, and their mainstream republican brand.
You've just provided a perfect example of the vile rhetoric and dogma that now inflicts the once "Grand Old Party", which makes it so unattractive to so many Americans - not to mention politically impractical as the republicans take a minority political positioon across the board.
"...the liberalís stole control and transferred a great party into a cesspool of hate and deception..."
"...problem with democrats is they lost any concept of right and wrong..."
"... the word illegal means to them comrade..."
"...The lies they passed for truth about the war and our brave troops just to gain power is disgusting ..."
You substitute the word democrats with "Jews", and you quickly discover how fascist and indecent this style of rhetoric is - no matter which side it comes from.
This does NOT foster the bi-partisan spirit you claim to embrace.
We'd prefer you to settle down and work with the majority taking control, instead of yelling insults from the penalty box.

In short - comments like these represent what's wrong with politics today - particularly the shrill, victim position of the extreme right-wing - and I can only hope younger republicans maintain a bit more respect for their fellow Americans and the values our country represents as they get older, than the perverted sense of nationalism that evolved in the generation before them.

Posted by Thats'Rich

10:21 AM, Jul 17, 2008

It is certainly rich to get lectures on civility of discourse from Democrats whose very own party stoops to ethnics slurs against Italian Americans in their unquenchable thirst to cling to power.

Posted by john

10:23 AM, Jul 17, 2008

I really do not want to bring up all the old garbage the liberals put out to gain votes by deceit, however I would like to bring to your attention General David Petraeus since this was just recently and you should have no reason not to remember. I will not type the name your party used to describe General David Petraeus last name just a few month ago.

Perhaps you can explain how your party went from name-calling and for the destruction of a great man to elevating him to a higher post in just a few months.

Your party and mine, in the senate confirmed his nomination 95 to 2 to take the reins of the military sphere that includes Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran.

Posted by John

10:31 AM, Jul 17, 2008

I saw your last post too late I posted a response to JM not knowing your JM too.
I cannot keep up with your handles.

I need more time to really read in between the lines of your post. Sometimes you even startle me with your responses.
Please can we not move the goal post on this subject?

Posted by john

10:39 AM, Jul 17, 2008

Jimd ,
Your post is...... let's forget that last post of yours.
Just answer in a sane tone this question please again without moving the goal post.

I really do not want to bring up all the old garbage the liberals put out to gain votes by deceit, however I would like to bring to your attention General David Petraeus since this was just recently and you should have no reason not to remember. I will not type the name your party used to describe General David Petraeus last name just a few month ago.

Perhaps you can explain how your party went from name-calling and for the destruction of a great man to elevating him to a higher post in just a few months.

Your party and mine, in the senate confirmed his nomination 95 to 2 to take the reins of the military sphere that includes Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran.

Posted by EastsideRepublican

10:42 AM, Jul 17, 2008

Great Article! Republican youths are organizing all over Washington, and using the Internet to do it. (Dino Rossi's Facebook page has 2000+ fans.) Good to see a young reporter giving this important voting demographic a fair shake.

Posted by JimD

11:18 AM, Jul 17, 2008

Well John, everyone I know of in "my party" is on the record as condemning the "General Betrayus" advertisement by MoveOn - including many who give money to the organization.
It's exactly the kind of rhetoric thing I'm talking about, and the vote you refer to clarifies MoveOn's disconnect with mainstream democrats.

It's that attempt to broad-brush more than half the country that's voting democrat, with the idiotic decision of a handful of media-types at MoveOn that made a terrible decision, that represents EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

It's also why I give MoveRed a slightly higher score in integrity by the absence of such blatantly corrosive discourse (at least), compared to the likes of those who articulate their ignorance and prejudices by lumping folks into preconceived identities they can foster hate and intolerance toward.

Democrats are as diverse as any other group, John.
MoveOn is not the democratic party, anymore than the SwiftBoat is the republican party.
I'm willing to discuss substantive issues with you, but have better things to do than argue with the blatantly hate mongering, fascist rhetoric of the Michael Savage crowd.

Posted by JimD

11:23 AM, Jul 17, 2008

hey David! i think you just got younger :-)

Posted by Bothsides

11:35 AM, Jul 17, 2008


So Dino Rossi would "mess things up"? What do you call what we have? You Libs are so blind, to say that the Republican Party is "out of touch" with Washington State is BS. The facts are, they are "out of touch" with extreme left wing libs such as yourself. I do care about illegal immigration and the degredation of the "American" wages it impacts, sorry that you don't.

JimD wrote:
"not the incompetent, ill-tempered, deceitful, bible-thumping, constitution harassing, hate-spewing, screaming midget freak show the republican party has decayed into..."

Wow, how tolerant you Liberals are, I mean "midget" is such a PC word these days. I'm sure it's easy for you to identify with the Democratic Party as they are the party of "do nothing", so not much to be critical of there. Your rhetoric is unbelievable, you spew hatred toward the right all the while telling us how YOU are so tolerant, one only has to read this thread to see what kind of tolerance you have, you are a hypocrite. Pure and simple. BTW, can you add some links where the people of ďyour partyĒ denounced the MoveOn ad??

Posted by John

11:52 AM, Jul 17, 2008, spouts the views of the main stream Democrat party and pays for ads supporting the Democrat agenda this is your party.
You to say it was condemn by you is fine except it cannot stop there.

We have Senator Durbin disgraceful attacks on our brave troops in Camp Delta.

Senator Murtha who bluntly called our marines killers. I can go on but the threat of high blood pressure is preventing me.
The acts by the Democrat party against our troops was horrible and for them or even Obama to wear the American Flag on their lapel today is a slap in the face of our troops.

My party would never disgrace our troops especially while their fighting on the battle fields on our war against terror in order to make political points as your party has done.

Posted by Acid Brain

12:07 PM, Jul 17, 2008

The title of the post reminds me of that great old TV series "In Search Of:" hosted by Leonard Nimoy. They focused weekly on investigations of off-beat ancient and modern mysteries and phenomena. I think this could have been one of those very episodes!

Posted by upchuck

1:06 PM, Jul 17, 2008

conservatives do not govern well for the same reason you would not expect a vegetarian to prepare a good beef bourguignon: it's hard to do something well when you are in principal opposed to what you are doing.

the conservative ideology at it's heart seeks to dismantle public institutions and move those assets and capital into private hands. instead of having an honest debate of whether the such an unregulated free market is better for society or not is avoided and instead we are left with unrelated rhetorical spin such as the above linked videos.

they avoid discussing whether we are better with public control of institutions such as education, fire, police, transportation, social security, heathcare, etc becasue they know that the american people are liberal when it comes to preserving robust democratic (the political process not just party) control of public institutions

furthermore the spin that the dems are hard left is false. the current brand of dem has been on board with every corporate tax break, free corporate trade deal, and every market and finance industry deregulation in recent decades leading to the S&L crisis, California's Enron blackouts, and now the current home mortgage and credit crisis.

Posted by John

1:18 PM, Jul 17, 2008

Take fire, police,FBI and our military off the table.
You asked for this please tell us:

One federal program that is working to the high standards of say the Boeing co. or Starbucks

Posted by upchuck

2:22 PM, Jul 17, 2008

wow john, from your comment then you appear to be far more liberal and socially minded than a majority of the republican party, many democrats and certainly the bush administration. becasue the the FBI, military and police are not only on the table, but already on the chopping blocks. sure they still exist, but more and more as hollow shells to distribute tax money to the private sector. for example, blackwater is in iraq and was in new orleans big time, and the fbi and cia outsource much of their info analysis to info companies like booze allen. these activities that are central to our national security and the public interest have no business being controlled by private hands and exploited for profit. the same goes for health care, education, and public lands. to truly ensure we live in a free society these resources must be available for all of the public, not just to the "high standards" of the best profit margins that starbucks and boeing rightfully strive for as private busniesses.

Posted by Acid Brain

2:33 PM, Jul 17, 2008

I don't think that the military, health care, security, or a lot of other mutually agreed services and resources should be either politicized or monetized for profit. We've come to a ridiculous place where a retired grandmother's medical care and income from her public or private retirement institution becomes a red vs. blue issue. It's morally inexcusable.
I'd like to see something completely different like licensing and bonding. You can't even drive a car without proving you have ability through insurance to pay for damages. How about that?

Posted by John

2:35 PM, Jul 17, 2008

Take fire, police,FBI and our military off the table.
No upchuck, these are off the table because these are the only ones that do work.

Again name one program or agency that works as well as Boeing or Starbucks.

Posted by John

2:41 PM, Jul 17, 2008

Acid Brain,
"You can't even drive a car without proving you have ability through insurance to pay for damages. How about that?

What do you mean ?
Also ,I'm not talking about profit .

Posted by Acid Brain

2:58 PM, Jul 17, 2008

I mean that social services subcontracting is not an inherently bad idea, but it's current fatal flaw is the lack of accountability to the public in both a financial and legal sense. Mercenary combat contractors in foreign occupations being a prime current example, the coming wedding between private and state run healthcare being one on the horizon. You can't kick these entities out in an election cycle and they have little or no financial responsibility for the impacts of their actions. Same thing with the Federal Reserve as well. There has to be a better way, and all private or all public isn't one of them.

Posted by Acid Brain

3:04 PM, Jul 17, 2008

More succinctly, this legacy of systemic privatized benefit with socialized risk has got to be dealt with and rebalanced regardless of political allegiance or it will fall down.

Posted by upchuck

3:27 PM, Jul 17, 2008

tell your grandma that social security doesn't work.

tell boeing and starbucks that you want to stop educating the american workforce.

tell the record number of americans with bankruptcy from medical bills that national health care would be horrible.

and tell every american camper that national parks should be run and owned by corporations for profits.

and tell our troops in iraq that the money that we pay contractors like blackwater is a good thing. i'm sure they love knowing that the blackwater troops make the average yearly wage of our troops in one month.

and then tell boeing and starbucks to run an education system without profit as an incentive and see if they take you up on that.

Posted by upchuck

3:30 PM, Jul 17, 2008

the DCAA saves taxpayers 100's of millions every year in overcharges to the US gov for defense contracts. their employees settle for less than they would make in the private sector. and their is not profit skimmed off the top for greedy ceos.

Posted by John

3:45 PM, Jul 17, 2008

DCAA is military under the Dept of defense.

Posted by John

3:47 PM, Jul 17, 2008

Acid Brain,
Are you upchuck?
No insult intended.

Posted by Acid Brain

4:16 PM, Jul 17, 2008

No I suffer from spastic fingers more than emesis. I think upchuck has some really good points, he's just trying to put everything in one bucket when we need a more robust plumbing system. I think corporations are actually way more inefficient than government, just take a look at Washington Mutual! Corps just happen to be a lot more popular, certainly pay better, and offer more opportunities to the public so they own the current narrative of criticizing other large institutions (rival corporations and local, state, and federal governments).

Posted by Nancy

5:54 PM, Jul 17, 2008

Marvelous! Young conservatives. Maybe there is hope for the future after all. The older conservatives have certainly let us down. For the first time in all of my voting years.... I don't feel I have anybody to vote for! You kids keep up the good work!!!!!

Posted by upchuck

6:48 PM, Jul 17, 2008

fine john, i'll humor you some more... dcaa came to mind first since i have family who have worked there. so....

how about the social security administration? can you imagine if our social security benefits were invested in bear sterns and indymac rather than US securities?

or... how about the public education system? or would you rather have fallwell and pat robertson teaching about adam and eve in science class? or underpaid teachers to bolster the bottom line for the owners of the schools?

and how about our national parks and forest service? i'm sure weyerhauser and home depot would love to control our forest lands, and they indeed have a rolll to play for the public good providing jobs and building materials. but other interests must be served by our public lands. persoanlly, i like hiking and camping in old growth forests - not to mention breathing oxygen = )

and john, just becasue you say that police, fire,and military are off the table doesn't mean they are. the facts are clear: police and military services are increasingly handled by private contrators for huge profits outside of the traditional military chain of command or any public democratic (political not party) oversight.

these are not fringe left ideas. my crusade is not against a robust economy that allows bright hard working entrpeneurs to make handsopme profit delivering goods and services to private customers. the distinction i make is that certain resources, goods, and services belong in public control or the very notion of a free society is at risk. with public institutions the motivation is to serve the public they righfully are accountable to. when these resources are put into private hands the motivation becomes profit margins and accountability is to share holders rather than the voters. again as examples i submit to you the Enron blackouts in California, the S&L crisis, and now the current housing and credit crisis.

Posted by upchuck

7:01 PM, Jul 17, 2008

acid brain,

i agree that it is deploreable that our grandparents medical care and social security are political red v. blue issues. it would be nice if all sides would just accept the fact that senior retirement benefits and medical care along with social security need to be accepted as the right thing to do and taken off of the table. but you must recall that these have always been politcal issues from their very inception. FDR was labelled a communist by the right when he created social security in the new deal and these social institutions have been under attack for as long os they have existed. in a free democratic society anything worth having will always likely require political advocacy or at least an informed electorate empowered with political choice.

Posted by John

7:23 PM, Jul 17, 2008

Upchuck,JimD.JamesB,Acid Brain,JM

I give up you win another one :)

You guys are too good to be only on this blog, you should expand your gift of knowledge to other blogs.

Posted by JimD

8:30 PM, Jul 17, 2008

Ya know - you're right.
I let my own rhetoric get a little out of control there.
I'll try to do better.
How about you?

I didn't see one democratic politician endorse the Betrayus ad.
As for web sites - couldn't tell you.
There's every imaginable opinion political out there from every perspective - left, right and who knows...
I'm sure some thought it was just dandy, just as others think Obama is a Muslim...or anything you want to find in cyber space.
But in mainstream circles, the ad was roundly rejected for what it was - a stupid mistake by MoveOn (which many of us support in most of their less provocative efforts).
While one can legitimately argue our civilian administration HAS betrayed us in their command of our military, the General in question has obviously not betrayed us (by military definition) by following the instructions of his civilian command.

Recent entries

Jul 18, 08 - 07:29 AM
Sutherland, horsesass, the Times and Mike Lowry, too

Jul 17, 08 - 11:39 AM
With Gregoire and Mrs. Obama

Jul 16, 08 - 11:22 AM
The search for young conservatives

Jul 15, 08 - 03:34 PM
Republican gov group will have deep pockets

Jul 15, 08 - 07:43 AM
(Insert Texas pun here)







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