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Postman on Politics

Chief political reporter David Postman explores state, regional and national politics.

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July 21, 2008 10:44 AM

New anti-Locke -Rossi ads on the air

Posted by David Postman

The union-funded Evergreen Progress PAC is airing two new TV spots critical of Republican Dino Rossi’s tenure in the Legislature. Both ads follow the theme and style of earlier spots from the PAC; 15 seconds, narrated in a Desperate-Housewives-sort-of-way, mining Rossi’s votes as chairman of the Senate Ways and Means Committee in 2003.

The new spots focus on education and Rossi's support for suspending two citizen-approved initiatives designed to give teachers raises and to reduce class sizes. Gov. Chris Gregoire made funding those initiatives a priority when she took office in 2005.

The nation's largest teacher's union is one of the recent big donors to Evergreen Progress. The PAC reported a $250,000 contribution from a National Education Association PAC on June 29.

The PAC calls the new ads, "Overcrowding"

And "Teacher Pay."

The ads are correct, as they say, that "State Senator Dino Rossi voted to cut state funds to reduce class sizes" and "State Senator Rossi voted to freeze teacher pay." But so did a majority of the Legislature that year in budget-cutting moves originally proposed by Democratic Gov. Gary Locke.

The initiatives were approved by voters in 2000. But by 2003, Locke said the state could not afford the cost of living raises mandated by I-732 or the hiring of new teachers as mandated in I-728. As the governor's budget proposal said in December, 2002:

With 80,000 jobs now lost across all economic sectors of the state economy, a pay raise for a single group of state-funded employees is not appropriate.

House Speaker Frank Chopp said back then

"Times have changed ... . At the time Initiative 728 was passed, the economy was growing and the state had a surplus."

Chopp wanted to send the initiatives back to the voters with some sort of new tax attached to pay for them. But Locke's proposal was adopted by Rossi, the Senate's chief budget writer, and passed by the Republican-controlled Senate.

The House went along with the plan, too. The proposal to suspend teacher raises won plenty of Democratic votes in the House.

Back in 2003, the NEA's state affiliate, the Washington Education Association, actually had some good things to say about Rossi's role in budget negotiations.

But unlike Locke, the Senate Republican plan would give raises to beginning teachers and the lowest-paid school staff.

Charles Hasse, president of the Washington Education Association, welcomed the gesture, but said it does not go far enough. He said the raises proposed by Rossi would help schools attract new teachers, but not retain experienced teachers.

Funding the education initiatives will continue to be a part of the gubernatorial campaign. Andrew Garber wrote in yesterday's Times about spending increases during Gregoire's term in office. The initiatives play a role in the $8 billion jump in spending. As Gregoire told Garber, "I'm not one who disregards the voice of the people."

You can see at the conservative Washington Policy Center blog about what Jason Mercier says is "the selective respect paid by the governor to the will of the voters."

While a commendable position, the problem with this statement is that to fund I-728 and I-732 the governor and the legislature overrode, using an emergency clause, I-601 and I-402 (estate tax reduction).

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Posted by Hinton

11:20 AM, Jul 21, 2008

There's no room for facts when it comes to union political scum. The WEA were lying through their collective teeth when they fraudulently managed to hose the voters into voting for these measures without assigning a revenue stream to each, because they knew it was a matter of time before their puppets in the legislature would jack up our taxes to fund these.

Teachers are overpaid, part time employees who routinely put out a substandard product. Their supporters, like the clowns fronting this ad, part of the Pravda crowd that has proven so successful in the past.

Posted by The Truth

11:27 AM, Jul 21, 2008

The Scam, teachers go on strike for the “Kids” Get their raise and go back to work.

Posted by JimD

12:21 PM, Jul 21, 2008

"...Teachers are overpaid, part time employees who routinely put out a substandard product..."

Good grief.
There's the Rossi doctrine on the importance of education, I guess.
And even if that was true, wouldn't paying less lower the quality of teachers attracted to the profession?
Or do you believe teachers should be so motivated by the nature of their civic service, they should accept less than they could make elsewhere for the priveledge of teaching the kids of parents who hold them in such contempt?
Unbelievable...

Posted by Bob-o

12:35 PM, Jul 21, 2008

What can one say. Seeing those negative ads makes me think negatively of Gregoire, as a candidate. That is something the PAC should consider.

In running negative ads in a 2 horse race, they are effectively negative-campaigning for Gregoire, and that turns me off. I have no idea who I'll consider voting for at this stage, but its one black mark against the Gregoire camp in my mind at this point.

Its the PAC shooting themselves in the foot and I guess trying to win over the stupid voters of the state that are incapable of critical reasoning and research on their own.

Do people really like misleading whiners like the PAC? I mean, I'm sure the ads don't give the full story behind any politicians votes or positions.. they never do.. they cannot in the time allotted, nor do they want to.

Posted by JimD

12:55 PM, Jul 21, 2008

No, but they do capitalize on where Gregoire has spent nearly half the increase in state spending - education.
Rossi/Locke left her with underpaid teachers and crumbling infrastructure from a budget passed in a recessive period.
Had this increased spending not been invested in education - as Rossi surely wouldn't have if he'd been elected - we'd be even harder pressed to attract quality teachers who'd be dealing with even larger classses and worse facilities, tools and supplies than we have today.
Rossi's certainly had a hand in the lack of education investment Gregoire inherited, and that's what the ad says - and I'm not sure how you say that without sounding negative, especially when Rossi calls Fregoire's investment in education a wasteful mismanagement.

Posted by JimD'sConscience

2:10 PM, Jul 21, 2008

JimD--
Once again, 2 out of the 1st 5 posts.
You are working way to hard dominating Postman's Blog and responding to every criticism of Gregoire and perpetuating talking point attacks on Rossi to just be your average Joe Citizen.

Which is it JimD...
Gregoire staffer or Union Staffer??

We should call you the Bloginator JimD for your Herculean Blogging efforts.
Part of the Progressive motis operendii is to dominate Blog comments.
Well done JimD.

Posted by Particle Man

2:31 PM, Jul 21, 2008

So lets see....some tool who spends enough time reading and posting under a different name, has no way to defend against what JimD has been posting .....so he/she tries to make JimD the issue.

The issue is Rossi. Rossi the corrupt BIAW tool who would slash school funding in a nanosecond if that would fund a tax break for his BIAW friends.

Posted by JimD

2:40 PM, Jul 21, 2008

",,,Part of the Progressive motis operendii is to dominate Blog comments...."
Oh, I gorgot - that operendii belongs to conservative posters.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm just a dumb truck driver sitting in Phoenix Arizona right now (and no it's NOT a dry heat thanks to the showers last night), waiting for my next load back to my beloved Washingto State.
I think your complaint is better addressed to those who don't blog very often.
Welcome, "Jimd'sconscience", and let's hear from you more often so we have a more balanced debate here, okay?

Posted by Democrat

3:11 PM, Jul 21, 2008

As a Democrat I find the negative advertising to be repulsive. If you cannot say something good about yourself and your accomplishments then you shouldn't be running.
I hope Gregoire disassociates herself with these gutter groups. As a Democrat, I have been very disappointed in the mud sling by my side.

Posted by JimDsConscience

3:14 PM, Jul 21, 2008

PM-Actually I agree with you that JimD is not the issue...the same way George Bush and BIAW are not. The issue is holding Gov. Gregoire accountable for her actions the past 4 years and the current state of Washington Government. Lots of issues to consider. The State Budget is a huge issue. Gov. Gregoire isn't even able to acknowledge the problem. We'll see how it plays out.

You go off on a rant about BIAW being corrupt without offering a shred of proof. Corruption is a serious charge PM. Care to elaborate?
Careful though, if you point to campaigning for a candidate, you condemn Gregoire to be a Union Tool and Tool of the entreched bureaucracy.

You always seem so angry ParticleMan. Are you a union tool or Gregoire tool or government worker posting on government time & computers??

Posted by Oliver

3:17 PM, Jul 21, 2008

As a committed Gregoire voter I agree with Bob-o that negative campaigning merely drags her down into the same gutter as the Rossi/BIAW garbage.

She has had an excellent tenure to date by investing in programs that benefit education and business. Forbes magazine has touted the state government as one of the top three in the nation as positive towards the business climate.

Let Rossi sling mud. He has nothing else to run on since he will not disclose his position on issues nor his intent for state government operation nor his personal finances.

Posted by JimDsConscience

4:16 PM, Jul 21, 2008

Oliver--
You state "negative campaigning merely drags her down into the same gutter as the Rossi/BIAW garbage"

You made the statement so what SPECIFIC garbage are you referring to?
Is it anything that sheds a light on Gregoire's abysmal record?
This is an election contest Oliver.

Posted by Particle Man

5:01 PM, Jul 21, 2008

JimDsConscience I did not say that the BIAW was/is corrupt. It is Dino who is corrupt and it is Dino who voters can count on to lead our state into endless scandals as he trades upon his position if he were to be our governor. Dino has come across no law he did not at least bend for the all mighty dollar. Campaign laws, ethics laws, real estate laws and so on.
In short, while issues matter to me a great deal and Dino is wrong on the issues and while relevant background matters and he lacks relevant background, I would not vote for Dino anyway.
I simply will not vote to elect someone who lacks any grasp of ethics.
Dino is a thug, a scoff law and must be stopped.

Blind faith supporters like you should stand back and take a close look at your candidates pattern of behavior. He simply is not fit to hold public office.

Posted by hinton

6:34 PM, Jul 21, 2008

Sorry, PM... but YOU calling SOMEONE ELSE a "blind faith supporter" is the reeking height of hypocrisy, even for you.

Queen Chrissy has been a tool. A tool of the tribes; a tool of union scum, and a tool that has led us into a $2.7 billion deficit.

And YOU say that ROSSI "isn't fit to hold public office?"

Congratulations. You've been the first to make me gag on this blog, and your pronouncements are despicable.

Posted by Oliver

6:45 PM, Jul 21, 2008

"Queen Chrissy has been a tool. A tool of the tribes; a tool of union scum....."

I will pass on any attempt to characterize your comments; they exhibit a certain "class" of their maker.

But if we are choosing "tools", I will take the tribes and the union scum over the Rossi/BIAW jackboots every time.

Posted by JimD

8:01 PM, Jul 21, 2008

"...Are you a union tool or Gregoire tool or government worker posting on government time & computers??..."

There you go again...

Posted by Particle Man

12:01 AM, Jul 22, 2008

I can accept that we differ in terms of what good policy looks like.
What is interesting is that you have such a capacity to look the other way when it comes to your candidates total lack of ethics.

It is this kind of thinking that has the GOP at a low point and until you guys wake up that will never change.

Posted by Richard Pope

12:29 AM, Jul 22, 2008

Let's see -- Intiatives 728 and 732 were approved by the voters in 2000. Dino Rossi (proposed and) voted to override the will of the voters just three years later, in 2003.

Initiative 601, I believe was approved in 1992, and Initiative 402 was approved in the 1970's or so. Christine Gregoire asked the legislature to override the will of the voters at least 13 years later in 2005.

I will score this one in favor of Gregoire for being more strongly in line with the current will of the voters.

Posted by That's Rich

1:57 AM, Jul 22, 2008

"What is interesting is that you have such a capacity to look the other way when it comes to your candidates total lack of ethics."

If ethnic slurs against Italians is the racist Democrat's definition of "ethics", I am glad Democrat don't think Rossi has that trait.

Getting lectured by Democrats on ethics, the very party that holds the record for the largest PDC violation in state history, now that's rich.

Posted by John

9:02 AM, Jul 22, 2008

Queens Attack Dogs.
This brings up my favorite complaint.
Teachers have lifetime employment good or bad.
They do not want any monitoring of teachers abilities.
They will not weed out bad teachers. They reject higher pay for better teachers and our Queen send them a blank check.
Anyone who wants to fix this broken machine is accused of wanting to destroy education. In Nov we need to send the Queen back to England.

Posted by upchuck

9:17 AM, Jul 22, 2008

"union scum" ? really?? i mean, really???

this is the derogatory slander we receive from the side that complains about gregoire's attack ad tactics.

the projected (yes projected, not even realized yet!) deficit in our state at least goes towards public investments like education and transportation infrastructure. the distinction that rossi would not make these investments (that wa voters asked for by the way) must be made and communicated to the voting public. it's a true narrative, which is what distinguishes it from an untrue swift boat style attack. and if it takes attack style ads to make that distinction known and get noticed amongst a flood of corporate media images. janet jackson's tits, brittney spears' ass, gangsta bling, etc, etc... then i see it is as fair game and also good political strategy.

some argue that rossi outdid gregoire on this last time, using attacks to define her as a big gov bureaucrat, while she mistakenly passed on the chance to use similar attacks to justifiably define rossi as the one who would sell out our public education system to offer tax breaks and deregulation to big earth killing, neaghborhod destroying, farm paving, industrial strip mall developer corporations.

(that was kind of fun going over the top like that rhetorically... 'lions and tigers and bears, oh my!' = )

instead she just tried to run a positive campaign about 'leadership' she embodied AG vs big corporate tobacco - a narrative that only let her win by 130 votes. this time i expect a much stronger victory now that the alternative to her re-election will be well defined in the media this time around. rather than the unknown likeable and sharp looking family guy and small biz owner who ran last time.

Posted by THE TRUTH

10:11 AM, Jul 22, 2008

We can dump 1 trillion into state services, our liberal friends accept this as progress, if more money is needed they say go a head as where making Government bigger and better any corruption or agencies going amok is fine with them as it’s our Government.

Welcome to Peoples Republic of Washington.

Posted by tom ross

1:39 PM, Jul 22, 2008

It should be called the Washnington Teacher Assolciatin, not the Washington Edujcation Association. It is about teachers,not education and cedrtainly not kids.

Posted by JimD

2:10 PM, Jul 22, 2008

"It should be called the Washington Teacher Assolciatin..."
If you succeed at cutting teacher's wages, the teacher quality the state could attract might actually sink low enough that they WOULD misspell "Association" like that.

Good grief - could it be anymore obvious that Rossi and his crowd want to destroy public education to further the move to charter schools?
I'm not saying the goal isn't worthy - maybe private, tax-funded schools would do better.
But pretending the vast majority of excellent teachers we've got do not warrant decent, competitive wages and benefits - mostly because their parents no longer raise them to take school seriously - is the height of political disingenuousness.
Let's call this what it is;
An all-out attack on the whole concept of public education by making the teachers the villain.
And we wonder why the kids who hear this make such awful students...

Posted by upchuck

2:49 PM, Jul 22, 2008

funny how bush's full term of deficit spending (at 700 billion w/o even counting the war and taking money out of social security!!!) to give tax breaks and contracts to the multi million salary set including the enron, halliburton, exxon and co ceos get's merely a peep pf complaint from rossi supporters.

but gregoire faces projected (that's right not even realized yet!) deficits of 8 billion to invest in education and making sure our state's employee's who are building infrastructure that will also help businesses and she's some sort of villain??? at least we'll have roads, educated kids, health care, and a few decent wage jobs forhar working men and women from the money she plans to spend (that again is only projected at this point to bring us into quite manageable deficits) to show for it... rather than a disappearing paper trail of contracts and sub contracts in the middle east that middle men took millions out of while barefoot indian peasants at the end of the subcontracting game end up building KBR bases that are so shotty that our troops have been electrocuted and killed in the shower more than once!!!

Posted by THE TRUTH

3:03 PM, Jul 22, 2008

Upchuck & JimD,

When did you find out you have a split personalty ?

Posted by tom ross

9:32 PM, Jul 22, 2008

Jim D,

Nothing has been said about the quality of teachers in this state. Teachers are like every other occupation. There are some good and some not good. What the teacher union (and it is a UNION, it is not an association) is about is salaries and benefits for teachers. It is not about kids and it is not about education. Listen to their testimony on whether being convicted for crimes should disqualify them from being around kids. No. Listen to their testimony on whether they should be judged on their performance and not on whether the union got them another contract. No. LIsten to their testimony on whether they should be prohibited from unsing public facilities for campaign purposes. No. The union is about everything except education and kids.

Posted by upchuck

9:52 PM, Jul 22, 2008

hey ross, what you don't like food on the table and roof on your head? you never ask for a raise before?? or ever try to make things a bit more profitable for your biz???

yeah i thought so, but the nerve that union workers or teaches would too i see is just too corrupt for you, huh? maybe if they were making 7 figures off of the state tit on defense contracts, running charter schools, or clear cutting state forest land it would be ok, but wanting to make a decent wage is just too much to ask i guess.

Posted by John

10:59 PM, Jul 22, 2008

The teachers and many I do respect and should be making a lot more than they do if it was not for the teachers that are dragging the good ones down.

This will never be rectified until the union fires the bad ones.

Do not blame us for your screwed up State Unions, which will never fire them. The good teachers will leave.

Look what the unions have done for the teachers more rest days, half school days, teachers learning days off. It’s so neat for our kids to have all these extra days away from school.
The teachers union demands more days off. How many hours do they really work in 9 months and they want more money for teachers that hate state testing. I hardly talked about education it’s all about the money for the union.

Posted by JimD

12:23 AM, Jul 23, 2008

Upchuck makes the best point here:
The purpose of a union is to represent the best interests of it's members.
Management represents the best interests of stockholders and customers.
That is the conventional status quo of union-management relations, and always has been.

Yet, you ask teacher's to forgo the rewards of their collective bargaining because their particular profession happens to be the education of children - as if some sacrifice is inherent in the privilege.
And in fact, many of the teacher's bargaining positions ARE geared toward the best interests of children - smaller class sizes, continuing teacher education, preserving sports and arts programs that build positive social skills and creative intellect, fewer out-of-pocket expenses for classroom supplies, providing a more dynamic, well-rounded education than simply teaching to a route test...
The representation of the teacher's union as having no genuine interest in the education process itself, simply defies the actual nature of their grievances.

I think much of the anti-teacher's union rhetoric is an attempt to take advantage of those who choose this high professional purpose, by expecting them to give it away below value because after all - they're working with "children".
It adds condescending insult to the very real damage done to education by not paying the profession what its worth.
If you pay and treat teachers like dime-a-dozen WalMart associates, that's what you're going to get.
On the other hand, if you reward teachers with pay and benefits befitting their true responsibility, it will attract the best and the brightest and produce more merit accountability commensurate with that higher professional calling.

In short, like everything else, you get what you pay for.
Teachers are no exception.

Posted by BillJ

9:18 AM, Jul 23, 2008


jimd
You see and read what fits your agenda. Then turns a positive view into an attack; No one takes your points seriously.

Posted by upchuck

10:32 AM, Jul 23, 2008

people should take him seriously because he makes important true points.

and by the way unions are democratic. if they were so bad for teachers why do they continue to democratically support their union?

so i wonder: can any of you cons give names of recent corrupt union leaders and the like who have "extorted" the public for any more than a comfortable low 5 figure salary for their honest and professional full time working job???

i've offered plenty of examples of corrupt figures to match my rhetorical narrative highlighting the negative results of the conservative paradigm of government (ie: slash the public sector, move any remaining public investments through the private sector - where instead of good union wages across the board we get walmart salaries for most and enron and halliburton executive slaries for some) there are plenty of ceo's who have abused their capitalist power corruptly to milk 100's of millions in recent months and years from their employees, customers, and the public. ken lay, lee raymond, and dick cheyney, are the first to come to mind and pop up as examples in my rants. their are plenty more recent corporate scandals to consider and also the less radical or noticed, but still i think significant, movement of private interests going after current remaining resources in the public sphere: such as education funding, public lands, and the infringement on clean air and water for the public.

Posted by The Kid

11:57 AM, Jul 23, 2008

upchuck recites the same talking points. nothing new here yawwwwww.....

Posted by upchuck

1:49 PM, Jul 23, 2008

and the kid offers no answer...

i back up my positions and only challenge you to do the same...

so where are your culprits, your corrupt union scum? who are they? how much money have they stolen from the public?

Posted by The Kid

2:26 PM, Jul 23, 2008

Union corruption:
You have a lot of time to read all these?

http://www.nlpc.org/artindx.asp

Posted by The Kid

2:56 PM, Jul 23, 2008

Upchuck
Disregard this section: where talking about the USA only
See you next month

Outside the Several States:
Canada - District of Columbia - Guam - Puerto Rico - Virgin Islands

Posted by John

3:06 PM, Jul 23, 2008

"if they were so bad for teachers why do they continue to democratically support their union?"

Upchuck lives in another land, Your a dock worker sometimes, tell your union to get @#$%^ and pack their bags leave our ports today.

Before you say this call me, I want to get a life insurance policy on you.

Posted by John

3:14 PM, Jul 23, 2008

http://www.nlpc.org/view.asp?action=viewArticle&aid=2512

BHO is in your court jimd and upchuck

Posted by JimD

4:16 PM, Jul 23, 2008

hey John -- I don't think any Longshoremen are going to tel the their union to &*%$ off or try to vote them out...lol
They've done very well by their membership, and the benefit comes back to ALL of us in the form of a top wage/benefit packages other employers have to compete with.
Your early retirement is due in part to the efforts of unions you were never a member of, John.
And you don't even know it.
That's the part you're missing - it's not just about the union members, but everyone else around them that benefits directly or indirectly from their success.

But to get back to your point - teachers, like dock workers, can find another type of employment if a closed shop is not to their liking.
No one is forcing anyone to hand over their money to causes they don't believe in or anything of the sort.
This is a free country.
No one is holding a gun to someone's head forcing them to work a union job.
That kind of whining and complaining - as if union workers are slaves or something - is what's gone wrong with this country.
Too many softies complaining about how unfair life is, and not enough willing to take a stand and find what's right for them.

Posted by John

4:43 PM, Jul 23, 2008

Jimd,
I never seen so many posts turned upside down to suit your replies.
Drive safely; I do not want anything to happen to you.

Posted by upchuck

10:43 AM, Jul 27, 2008

john, many dock workers owe their lives to the union - literally. before the union, when people died doing the dangerous stevedore and longshore work it was "tough luck" thanks to the union we now have safety standards and medical coverage if something does happen, not to mention weekends, an 8 instead of 12 hour day, and much better wages (and by the way, the shipping companies still make plenty more than we do, so I wont hear any of that “greedy lazy union” BS) anyway yes, we could vote out the union in theory, but the heck would we want to?

kid, thanks for the link. i did go over it a bit and i appreciate being challenged with more than empty stereotypes. you didn't change my mind to think unions are bad, but i do admit there were plenty of corruption cases linked. to me, many did seem quite petty compared with the level of corporate corruption in our society, but that is beside the point. for example, there is political corruption too, but should we abandon democracy??? and despite my rants against corrupt ceo's even a hard left progressive like myself would never call for an end to private enterprise. it's corruption in all arenas that is the problem. people, not institutions, are responsible for corruption. so, what is the answer? strong democratic standards governing institutions to protect the interests of many against abuses of powerful few. in this sense i strongly support the presence of unions to negotiate on behalf of workers with management. and in our government i support 3 co-equal branches of government with checks and balances. and i strongly support the efforts of legal defense institutions to go after corruption wherever it is: union halls, ceo board rooms, or the white house.

Posted by John

4:16 PM, Jul 27, 2008


Upchuck,

My father was a union organizer in the hay days of the Unions, He never told me he killed anyone, however the brutalities he applied on the non-union guys would make you throw up.

Wherever you have money involved there is a good chance you’ll find corruption.

I hope you read my post about tree house foods. It is the first thread on the blog.

I posted it especially for you.


Posted by upchuck

6:48 PM, Jul 27, 2008

john,

i haven't seen the bit about obama's mrs. with tree house foods, but i am under no illusions that obama is a true progressive - he is neo-liberal free trade chicago style economics advocate to the core. in fact he was recently quoted in fortune magazine saying that the pre-primary talk in ohio calling for renegotiating nafta for labor and enviro standards was just "overheated campaign rhetoric" and one of his aids gave similat assurances to the canadian consulate. yet, i still think obama is a world better than mccain as clinton, another neo-liberal free trader (unfortunately) was many times better than either bush.

as for the union stuff - i wasn't referring to workers being killed by attack, (but that has happened to - google "bloody thursday") but rather the dangers that come with the job. in the old days if a load was dropped on you and you lost a leg or got killed that was tough luck for you or your surviving family. at least today the stevedore companies are required to meet saftey standards for working conditions and if an injury on the job occurs there is medical/life insurance in place to cover the losses and medical bills. also with a strong union if we bring up a problem on the job they can't just fire us for speaking up.

good for your dad for being a union organizer. i am aware that in the early days the union men had to ferociously protect their turf from scabs and strikebreakers. this has been troubling to me as i am a pacifist in theory. however, i also do believe in the mission of organizing labor and acting in opposition to the exploits of the labor force by companies who do use tactics such as pitting ethnic groups against each other to ensure the cheapest and most docile work force, rather than respecting the rights of their workers to collectively bargain for their wages and work contract terms. however, for every scab that was tossed in the water by longshore strikers in the old days i guarantee you there are at least a dozen strikers billy clubbed and tear gassed by the police while peacefully picketing the job site.

Posted by John

8:41 PM, Jul 27, 2008

upchuck,
"i haven't seen the bit about obama's mrs. with tree house foods,

I never told you it was about Mrs..... ??? Your a mind reader.

"but i am under no illusions that obama is a true progressive - he is neo-liberal free trade chicago style economics advocate to the core."

what are you saying he's for non-union shops and free trade?

Posted by upchuck

10:03 PM, Jul 27, 2008

we'll be more able to lobby an obama adminstration than a mccain. clearly the reality of nafta, wto, etc are off the table in this election. at least, the neo-liberal free trade dems have not attacked the organizing rights and very existence of domestic unions as repub administrations have. and their support will remain if for no other reason (as you have so often noticed) that killing the unions would amount to biting the hand that feeds them.

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