Advertising

The Seattle Times Company

NWjobs | NWautos | NWhomes | NWsource | Free Classifieds | seattletimes.com

Politics & Government


Our network sites seattletimes.com | Advanced

Postman on Politics

Chief political reporter David Postman explores state, regional and national politics.

E-mail| About the blog | From the archive| RSS feeds Subscribe | Blog Home

July 22, 2008 3:08 PM

Gregoire & Eyman, "getting real results in tough times"

Posted by David Postman

Gov. Chris Gregoire has her first re-election TV commercial on the air. Gregoire uses the 30 second spot -- which the campaign calls "The News" -- to push her point that Washington state has been isolated from the economic problems plaguing the rest of the country. A male narrator opens the commercial:

In George Bush's Washington, the news isn't good.

But in our Washington, Governor Gregoire is helping the middle class fight back.

The first accomplishment touted in the spot is:

Local property taxes capped at 1 percent.

Can Gregoire properly claim credit for that? Well, sure, she signed a bill that did just that last year.

But the property tax cap was much more the work of Tim Eyman, the professional initiative manager so many Democrats love to hate. Gregoire and the Legislature only got to leave their fingerprints on it because after it was embraced by voters as Initiative 747, the tax cap was thrown out by the state Supreme Court. The court said that voters had been deceived into thinking the initiative would mean a smaller hit on the state treasury than it was.

voters had been told they would be reducing the tax-increase cap to 1 percent from 2 percent, although the initiative actually was reducing the cap from 6 percent to 1 percent.

An earlier Eyman initiative, I-722, had put a 2 percent limit on property-tax increases, but that was found unconstitutional months before voters approved I-747.

The court upheld a lower court ruling that said "voters were incorrectly told I-722 was being amended, but it was no longer law, so voters were asked to amend a non-existent law."

With that drafting error fixed, but no other changes made, Gregoire called the Legislature into special session last November and asked them to codify Eyman's initiative in law.

"This bill makes things exactly the way they were prior to the Supreme Court's decision," said Rep. Christopher Hurst, D-Enumclaw, the bill's lead sponsor. "It does nothing more and it does nothing less."

The night that one-day session adjourned, I talked to Gregoire about how it appeared to me that she and the Democratic-controlled Legislature were doing Eyman's bidding. She strenuously disagreed.

And the fact of the matter is, this has nothing to do with Tim Eyman as far as I'm concerned. I think the voters said very clearly what they wanted. And he may have written something. But the fact of the matter is my motivation is what the voters had to say. And the voters said they're fearful about whether they're going to be able to keep their homes.

It's been implemented now for five years or more. It is, in fact, the way we've been doing business. So I don't think this is a rush to judgment by the Legislature. I think it is exactly what the voters want to have done

.

What I never understood was how re-implementing Eyman's initiative would do anything about voters' fears about losing homes. Gregoire said last year she repeatedly heard those fears during town hall meetings she held around the state. But those happened before the Supreme Court threw out I-747. So if people were worried about losing their homes, that was despite the 1 percent property tax limit that had been in place for five years.

At best, reinstating the initiative would stop those homeowners from being more afraid. But it couldn't have done anything to assuage fears heard at the town hall meetings.

In other campaign ad news:

I wrote yesterday about new ads from Evergreen Progress, the labor-backed PAC that is running TV ads against Gregoire's opponent, Republican Dino Rossi.

I pointed out that despite the ads' attacks on Rossi's education record, the teacher's union had said nice things about the budget he wrote in 2003. But I failed to mention that the same union, the Washington Education Association, later sued over the teacher pay plan drafted by Rossi. The union obviously didn't like the Rossi pay plan as much as I made it appear.

Digg Digg | Newsvine Newsvine

Submit a comment

*Required Field



Type the characters you see in the picture above.

Posted by Paul D.

3:59 PM, Jul 22, 2008

Had I known how she works the government in Washington State, I would have pushed her for free fishing licenses.

Posted by Paul Guppy

4:17 PM, Jul 22, 2008

Dave, good description of the complicated and lengthy saga of I-747. The 1% limit only slows down the rate of property tax growth. Property taxes are much lower than they would have been, so a limit on tax increases is better nothing, but it is not a tax cut. Also, a home in Washington can be covered by as many as ten taxing districts (and for lucky King County residents, the Council recently added two more), each of which can raise its tax burden by 1%, all dipping into the same family budget.

Posted by Particle Man

4:39 PM, Jul 22, 2008

Save for the snarky headline, your story accuratly makes clear that the Gov was under no obligation to do anything and the courts tossed out the Eyman initiave, end of story.
THis might have been a good time to be petty since the 1% (of increase) does very little to begin with but the D's in both houses and the Gov took action out of respect for the duped voters thought they were voting for.

Posted by lewby54

4:58 PM, Jul 22, 2008

At 71, McCain, doesen't have a clue nor any clear vision for this country.
He lives, with his billionaire wife Cindy, in his own private Idaho.
The truly scary part is that, this senior citizen, should be spending a little
more time in the garden, instead of seeking Armegeddon in His lifetime.
Clearly the flip side of the Bush coin. We lost 50,000 young men in Vietnam,
due to the republican escalation of that conflict. We also left Vietnam in quite hurry,
unable to save it from imminent Doom!
Today Vietnam, is a wonderful tourist attraction, as a matter of fact, the Miss
Universe Pageant was just held there! Imagine that! Miss Venezuela won.
What is so sad and disturbing is that, Miss Venezuela would have won anyway
without the 50,000 U.S Deaths and countless maimed.
If you would like a similar experience, vote McCain.
If you want an intelligent America, Vote for Obama.
Obama has a vision to restore America's, inherent greatness. He has far more wisdom
and far better Judgement than his opponent. Currently, America has gone off the rail
on a crazy train. Its time to say NO to captain Ahab, who would like us all to join him
on the crazy train, and more importantly catching the whale.
Its so important to understand what these "Wide Stance" republicans are saying,
so heres your handbook--> http://www.squidoo.com/double_speak
This is the biggest no brainer ever!!

Posted by Bothsides

5:01 PM, Jul 22, 2008

lewby54,

A little off topic aren't you!

BTW, I think you are re-writing history. The Democrats escalated the Vietnam war, that would be Kennedy and Johnson, the Republicans, namely Nixon, got us out. So you might want to re-think that Obama thing.

Posted by Bothsides

5:15 PM, Jul 22, 2008

I love it, CG to the rescue. Rock on Tim, this wouldn't have happened otherwise. Has anybody in King County had their property valuation go down??? The facts support it, real estate prices have dropped enough that valuations should be adjusted, we'll see if that happens!

Posted by John

7:02 PM, Jul 22, 2008

lewby54,
Sorry, I can not let this go by.

Typical democrat script, how the west was won re-take 24 you’re insulting the memory of the brave souls who passed on and survived.

Do you know most veterans support Senator John McCain?

If you been following this campaign you would have educated yourself to the facts of Obama he has no vision or any plan but sound bites. He has done nothing in his 43 years here. His tenure as a Senator spanned 143 days. He spent 20 years every Sunday in a church run by a man he called his uncle he worshiped Rev. Wright he baptized their children and made him part of his family. For 20 years the Obamas including the kids heard the hate from Rev. Wright and Obama said nothing knowing the man was a bigot and the whole Obama family was brain washed to hate America. Then a few months ago he saw his Rev.Wright on TV and he dropped as fast as he could.

You talk about Judgment do you have a new meaning for it? I cannot except change from a kid who is still having growing pains and everyday we see a new Obama.
Which Obama did you like? I like the one a few years ago.

Posted by JimD

7:56 PM, Jul 22, 2008

Washington State is extremely lucky it's maintained its high standard of business opportunity and controlled growth.
People flock here to start new businesses in this rich, intelligent and relatively affluent corner of the country.
This nonsense from the Rossi camp about our tax structure keeping away potential employers is laughable.
Washington is abundent with opportunity, talent and competant, effective governments.
We have some of the better schools, better law enforcement, better social services...better just about everything -- compared to the many lesser states I travel through.
Trust me - If you haven't gotten out much lately, Washington looks better than ever despite our problems.
I'm glad Gregoire is pushing back against the relentless attempt to turn us into a pizz-poor, low-tax, low-wage trailer park.
It's about time she started taking credit for her excellent stewardship -- including her responsible accountability to the results of the one Eyman campaign that actually tapped the public's concerns.
Quite the opposite of Rossi, who has such contempt for the public - at least the half of us who question his intentions, that is.
Keep the positive ads coming, Governor.
You have much to be proud of.

Posted by BLegg

8:02 PM, Jul 22, 2008

If Rossi takes the credit for a budget he had little leadership on, Gregoire can take credit(?) for a popular tax initiative she had little leadership on..
It seems that Gregoire is in the Seattle Times doghouse, it must be about the estate tax?

Posted by JimD

8:25 PM, Jul 22, 2008

Or maybe the Times is bending over backwards to find some semblance of a balanced critique between a relatively good governor -vs- the embarrassingly flawed republican candidate who wants her job.

Sorry David - the detail you presented was excellent, but finding flaw in Gregoire taking credit for responding to the people's desire for the cap is a bit of a stretch.

Posted by C'mon

8:36 PM, Jul 22, 2008

ParticleMan & JimD--
I was a Rossi supporter. However after reading your extraordinary comments, I am now voting for Gregoire. Thanks for your insight.
JimD--you did tell us you were a long-haul trucker....right??
Do you idle your truck...or pay for Idle-Aire??
Where are you tonight?

Posted by JimD

8:46 PM, Jul 22, 2008

C'mon - I have a Thermo-King APU which keeps me comfy with only a trickle of diesel compared to idling the big engine.
They're expensive but - compared to $4 PER HOUR of fuel idling the truck engine for ac or heat - well worth it.

Glad you're taking a closer look at the race.
I don't post with the expectation of changing anyone's mind - more the philosophical debate for me - but if it sparks some new thinking, great!

Posted by jan

8:56 PM, Jul 22, 2008

This is a good ad that is better than most because it is honest even with David's picky stuff. Washington state is doing far better than most other parts of the nation. Chris Gregoire is a big contrast to George Bush.

Fair contrast. Fair content.

Dino Rossi will have a hard time convicing people on the radio that Chris Gregoire is running in the gutter when people see this, and most everybody will.

Dino might want to take down that radio spot he was running today that was all about his opponent running nasty ads about him and said nothing about what he'd do.

Posted by JimD

9:46 PM, Jul 22, 2008

If Gregoire cruises through this site - and I'm sure at least some folks close to her do - for goodness sake, KEEP GOING POSITIVE!

Rossi's only argument for his candidacy - attacks on your administration - will stand in stark contrast to your projection of the confident, successful leadership you've earned the right to brag on a bit.
Flatter us with our COLLECTIVE success, instead of getting down in the mud pit with Rossi ;-)

Posted by John

10:06 PM, Jul 22, 2008


A few, actually think she did this because the voters wanted it capped is dishonest; this was made into law for votes.
The Democrats knew it was a vote killer and acted appropriately.

Though it took 3 days to convince the Queen of this she finally under protest agreed.

This ad did not erase the scandal that hangs over her or her in the gutter attacks.


Posted by jamesb

10:23 PM, Jul 22, 2008

John,
I swear someone could get whiplash reading one of your posts.

Posted by AD

5:58 AM, Jul 23, 2008

Chris Gregoire doesn't mention the $2.7 billion deficit we now have left to work out somehow, thanks to her massive new spending program (only partially offset by her slightly less massive new tax increases).

I just wanted to make that comment here because Chris's campaign censors the comments on her youtube channel. :)

Posted by FACT

9:30 AM, Jul 23, 2008

"People flock here to start new businesses in this rich, intelligent and relatively affluent corner of the country."

Except of course BOEING, who moved out there corporate headquarters thanks to Democrats stifling business.

Posted by REALITY

9:36 AM, Jul 23, 2008

"Dino Rossi will have a hard time convicing people on the radio that Chris Gregoire is running in the gutter when people see this, and most everybody will."

Um actually no he won't. Already we have seen the Gregoire team stooping to racist ethnic slurs against Italian Americans.

When Gregoire STARTS in the gutter, it is hard to do any worse. But the election season has just sarted, I am sure the Gregoire team has more sleaze up their sleeves.

Posted by Particle Man

9:42 AM, Jul 23, 2008

Hi Really, the Sapronos thing, that was the democratic party not the Gov. The song was a bad/regretable choice but the cantent was all good.

JimD and others, yes this was a positive ad and I am sure we will be seeing many more from the Gov's campaign. She has many many positive achievements to showcase.
In the end though, a campaign focused 100% on nice nice will not gain the Gov reelection.
She is after all running against a guy who intends to hide from his past and evade every question about where he is on the issues he has not chosen to bring up.
All I can say is hold onto your seats.
Rossi must be defined on the issues, have the reality of his proposals (if he makes any) brought into focus, and the real details about his profiteering, when last he held office, must be exposed. He has had a free ride virtually his entire career and that ride is over. So many folks are content to look the other way when it comes to the facts and details about this guy who wants the top job in our state and they must be given access to the facts. Last time all the voters got were the images of his slick marketing campaign and his very controlled message. Those days are gone for good.
If this takes some hard hitting ads, then I say "bring them on!".

Posted by JimD

10:22 AM, Jul 23, 2008

I guess I agree, PM.
But I also think that when voters actually cast their choice, we want them to contrast a Gregoire's positive image of themselves and the state, from Rossi's negative insistence that we're a bunch of losers.
I guess after reading your thoughts, I'd say that if a blend of negative and positive is necessary, Gregoire should leave voters with a more overwhelmingly positive message about THEM than Rossi can create.
After all - resentment, anger and contempt is all Rossi's got to offer.
The opportunity to appeal to the optimism and pride we northwesterner's eat up, belongs almost exclusively to Gregoire.
She should use it ;-)

Posted by Particle Man

10:42 AM, Jul 23, 2008

You are a smart fellow JimD. I also think that the Gov has done a great deal of work bridging the gap between East WA and West WA to in effect mend or bring our state together.
The one Washington message is a strong one which the Gov has worked on.
The contrast between this and "don't let Seattle steal this election" could not be more stark.

Posted by scooter

11:09 AM, Jul 23, 2008

The Rossi Campaign should 'pull a gregoire' and cite how much 'her' cap on property tax cost the government and call it a 'cut'.

Posted by Jim Guthrie

11:39 AM, Jul 23, 2008

PM and JimD,

Don't take this as an insult, but it is quite clear that you and I reside in completely different worlds. You see black, I see white. Up, down. Because I have no idea how you guys can believe what you do. It's bizarro world.

Oh - confidential to Jan - Bush isn't running.

Posted by Particle Man

12:05 PM, Jul 23, 2008

Guthrie, in "your world" is it just fine for an elected Senator while chairing ways and means to buy an apartment building in partnership with powerful lobbyists who have ongoing business with his committee on behalf of BIAW and others and then for that politician to get several hundred thousand dollars more from the deal than the proportionate investment of the partners?

Or are Dino's scams where he traded upon his position for piles of illgotten cash just OK in your world?

Posted by TheFacts

1:00 PM, Jul 23, 2008

"Guthrie, in "your world" is it just fine for an elected Senator while chairing ways and means to buy an apartment building in partnership with powerful lobbyists who have ongoing business with his committee on behalf of BIAW and others and then for that politician to get several hundred thousand dollars more from the deal than the proportionate investment of the partners?"


As opposed to Gregoire giving the tribes a carte blanch monopoly on gambling in this state tax free and they turn around and give her $200,000 bribe for her re-selection.

Posted by Particle Man

1:10 PM, Jul 23, 2008

The choice between getting some state rev from slot machines and negotiating a great reduction in the # of those machines along with smaller limits in other gaming was a good choice.
Some tribes gave campaign contributions to the state party this year.
Their is NO comparison between this and the hundreds of thousands of dollars that Dino received for personal use.
If you cant see that then you just don't see.

Oh and Guthrie...... hello......where did you go?

Posted by P

1:11 PM, Jul 23, 2008

lewby54: to your revisionist history diatribe I offer this as a rebuke! Eat dung, fool!

"Americans are beginning to notice Obama's elevated opinion of himself. There's nothing new about narcissism in politics. Every senator looks in the mirror and sees a president. Nonetheless, has there ever been a presidential nominee with a wider gap between his estimation of himself and the sum total of his lifetime achievements?

Obama is a three-year senator without a single important legislative achievement to his name, a former Illinois state senator who voted "present" nearly 130 times. As president of the Harvard Law Review, as law professor and as legislator, has he ever produced a single notable piece of scholarship? Written a single memorable article? His most memorable work is a biography of his favorite subject: himself." - Charles Krauthiemer

Posted by TheFacts

2:40 PM, Jul 23, 2008

"The choice between getting some state rev from slot machines and negotiating a great reduction in the # of those machines along with smaller limits in other gaming was a good choice.
Some tribes gave campaign contributions to the state party this year.
Their is NO comparison between this and the hundreds of thousands of dollars that Dino received for personal use."

The is no comparison. Under Gregoire Tribal gambling has exploded. The lie that somehow she sacrificed tax revenue to prevent more gambling is just that, a lie. Practically every state in the union that has tribal gambling gets a cut of the money. But apparently Gregoire is so corrupt that she was bought off. Today we have MORE gambling going on that what was supposedly to be the limit under her "deal" wherein she gave up taxes for a promise from the tribes. Think when the white man got Manhatten for a string of beads, except we are the ones getting the equivalent of beads while the tribes get millions, including the one million grant the Gregoire government gave to the Clearwater Casino.

How much of the tax payer's money was lost when Rossi made a buck in his business deal? NONE. How much has TAXPAYER money was given away under Gregoire? BILLIONS.

Posted by Bill

3:12 PM, Jul 23, 2008

"People flock here to start new businesses in this rich, intelligent and relatively affluent corner of the country."

Nice cheerleading, but that's simply not true.

Posted by Particle Man

3:28 PM, Jul 23, 2008

None of the facts,
I find it most interesting reading your latest.
1. You show a total lack of understanding about the tribes and their gaming rights granted by the courts.
2. You show a high level of bigotry in regard to the native American nations.
3. You fail to address the basic question I raised, that Dino Rossi when last in office lined his own pockets with several hundred thousand dollars.

It would be one thing if you held the belief that tribal gaming should be on the largest scale possible in order to gain the state government some revenue.
In this case we could just disagree.

But, I gather from your post that this is not your view. So I can only conclude that you go on about the gaming issue as a way to avoid talking about how corrupt Dino Rossi is and the larger question of how you can support such a crook.

Posted by The Kid

3:48 PM, Jul 23, 2008

Particle Man

"Their is NO comparison between this and the hundreds of thousands of dollars that Dino received for personal use."

provide a link to this scandal.

Posted by JimD

3:52 PM, Jul 23, 2008

Bill wrote:
" "People flock here to start new businesses in this rich, intelligent and relatively affluent corner of the country."
Nice cheerleading, but that's simply not true."

Less than four months ago, Forbes Magazine wrote this about why Seattle (area) is one of the nation's best places for business investment.

"Seattle, Wash.
Median home price: +1.2%
Unemployment: 4.3% (from 4.5%)
Key growth: Leisure and hospitality, 4.1%; manufacturing, +2.6%
The region around Puget Sound is home to Microsoft, Amazon.com, Starbucks, Costco, Nordstrom and Washington Mutual.
What's more, home prices are only half that in the San Francisco Bay Area, and unemployment in the region is falling.
Of the 50 largest metropolitan statistical areas in the U.S., Seattle had the strongest growth in manufacturing in the past year."
http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/29/cities-recession-places-forbeslife-cx_jz_0429realestate_slide_4.html?thisSpeed=20000

I don't know how we get better than "the strongest growth in manufacturing" from Forbes - a specialty magazine for business leaders.
Why would you suggest - contrary to stats like Forbes' and everyone else's - that Washington isn't a highly desirable place to run a business?

Posted by John

4:10 PM, Jul 23, 2008

Jimd,
Forbes did print this after speaking to Gregoire.

Here is also another story about her:


By Bryan Bissell - June 30, 2008 - 11:40am
Release Date: Jun 30 2008
Hey Guv, There's a Negative Sign before That Number


Bellevue, WA... Christine Gregoire continues as Governor of the State of Denial this week when, according to the Oregonian, she told a group of firefighters that Washington was "sitting on a surplus." Her comment came four days after the Economic Review and Revenue Forecast Council predicted a $158 million dive in economic revenue during the next biennium.

Despite the non-partisan Senate Ways & Means Committee staff predicting a $2.5 billion deficit, Gregoire has been defiantly touting her imaginary "surplus" for months. Never mind last week's ominous downturn in state revenue, which ratcheted the projected deficit even higher. The cause of the deficit is Gregoire's reckless three-year spending spree, where she's increased spending of tax dollars by more than 33%.

When asked about her deficit in March of this year, Gregoire told Oregon Public Broadcasting that she was putting off any precautionary planning for a deficit, despite projections of a $2 billion deficit at the time:

"We have three budget forecasts before that, so it's a guess. So to say today, ‘What are you gonna do about it?' Well I don't know what it's going to look like virtually one year from now...So again, premature, good news in Washington state right now..."

Fast forward to earlier this week; one budget forecast down, two to go, and it's not looking good. But Gregoire was talking about "good news" in Washington, right? Steve Lerch, the state's interim chief economist said of the housing industry: "It's the worst downturn we've seen in the last 25 years."

Gregoire will continue to tout her invisible "surplus" until it's too late and the only option will be tax increases. We wish that one of her trusted budget advisors would point out the negative sign in front of the billions of dollars on the state's balance sheet. For failing to acknowledge Washington's dire budget realities, we give Gregoire an "F" followed by a negative sign.

Posted by TheFacts

4:29 PM, Jul 23, 2008

Particle Boy,

"1. You show a total lack of understanding about the tribes and their gaming rights granted by the courts.
2. You show a high level of bigotry in regard to the native American nations.
3. You fail to address the basic question I raised, that Dino Rossi when last in office lined his own pockets with several hundred thousand dollars."

1. The State of Washington collects no revenue from tribal gaming. You cannot refute this, so you make up some gibberish.

2. If all else fails, play the bigotry card. Yeah that's rich, especially from the racist Democrat Party that throws ethnic slurs about Italian Americans.

3. He did no such thing. PROVE it. You can't. All you can do is make up garbage and repeat it.

Contrast this to the FACT that Gregoire ensured that the state gets none of the tribal gambling revenue and she gets campaign contributions. And unlike you, I will back up what I say:

"OLYMPIA -- Gov. Chris Gregoire is benefiting from more than $650,000 in campaign contributions from Indian tribes that hit the jackpot in 2005 when she killed a gambling compact potentially worth more than $140 million a year to the state.

Unlike 22 other states that collect millions from revenue sharing agreements for tribal gambling, Washington gets no money from tribal casinos under the compact that Gregoire renegotiated with the Spokane Tribe."

SOURCE: Seattle PI

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/366900_gregoire13.html

If backing up my assertions with facts and proving it with verifiable sources makes me a bigot in your eyes, the eyes of a defender of racist bigotry against Italian Americans, then I consider it a badge of honor.

Posted by jamesb

4:35 PM, Jul 23, 2008

John,
So you are saying Forbes was wrong because of one blogger? And you noticed Forbes wasn’t discussing the same issue as the blogger? What exactly was your point John?

Posted by Fact

4:40 PM, Jul 23, 2008

FACT: State tribes have pumped more than $600,000 in campaign contributions into the state Democratic Party since 2004, which in turn contributed to Gregoire's campaign.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/366900_gregoire13.html

Posted by John

4:52 PM, Jul 23, 2008

jamesb,
Read the story again if you do not understand the point, I’ll explain it to you word by word.
Better yet, interrupt upchucks reading and ask him to read it to you.

Posted by jamesb

5:00 PM, Jul 23, 2008

John,

I know you conservatives have been lead to believe that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is at least an idiot if not unworthy to live but, I tire of your condescending crap. I’m an intelligent human being and desire to be treated as such.

Now big man. Tell me word for word so I can see your point. You made the offer back it up.

Posted by John

5:09 PM, Jul 23, 2008

Jamesb,

Telling you to read is an insult !

Drive safely, we need you.

Posted by jamesb

5:41 PM, Jul 23, 2008

John,
Nice try my friend but it doesn’t pass the smell test. You said “Read the story again if you do not understand the point, I’ll explain it to you word by word.”
So explain to me teacher. How does the blog article you posted counter the Forbes magazine article Jimd cited?

Posted by Bothsides

5:59 PM, Jul 23, 2008

"People flock here to start new businesses in this rich, intelligent and relatively affluent corner of the country.
This nonsense from the Rossi camp about our tax structure keeping away potential employers is laughable.
Washington is abundent with opportunity, talent and competant, effective governments."

"We have some of the better schools, better law enforcement, better social services...better just about everything -- compared to the many lesser states I travel through."

You're kidding right! We also have some of the better property taxes, B&O taxes, sales taxes etc. That's why our business climate is driving people away, i.e. Boeing. I truly live here because of the great "social services" we have, why, I can't remember the last time I had to wait in line for some kind of "service" from the state. Who are you kidding, the only people "flocking" here for "social services" are the homeless. CG did an interview with Forbes and spoon fed them some data. The low unemployment rate is not due to CG. As for this move on property taxes, she gritted her teeth and did it to buy votes, plain and simple. Plenty of other taxes she's increased though, after her PLEDGE not to raise them. We are not blind fools as you might think, and there's no way to sugar coat her record, this is about the only positive she can bring up, so she'll have to keep up with the attack ads.

Posted by John

6:27 PM, Jul 23, 2008

"jamesb

5:41 PM, Jul 23, 2008

John,
Nice try my friend but it doesn’t pass the smell test. You said “Read the story again if you do not understand the point, I’ll explain it to you word by word.”
So explain to me teacher. How does the blog article you posted counter the Forbes magazine article Jimd cited?"

Your appointed queen was interviewed by Forbes she told a rosy picture of our state as she’s running for her life in this election year.

She was either lying to Forbes or as the Oregon story went in to Denial.

Later part of June of this year she finally made the decision to tell the truth about the pending deficit and called on all agencies to cut their budgets to save her from her self.
She blew a surplus and no words can cover this up.


Posted by jamesb

6:46 PM, Jul 23, 2008

John,
So you are saying Forbes gave Washington State its ranking based solely on an interview with Gregoire? You really believe that?

You still have not “explained” to me how the blogger’s post counters the Forbes article.

And has been pointed out to you by others, including Postman, It’s a projected deficit. Let’s deal with facts shall we?

Posted by JimD

7:02 PM, Jul 23, 2008

Bothsides wrote:
"...CG did an interview with Forbes and spoon fed them some data.."

No, that's flat out wrong, Bothsides.
"Forbes Ranking Of Seattle" as one of the BEST cities for business came from, "... the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics for the year ending in February 2008 ...", BLS data on job growth in non-farm payrolls, through February 2008, for construction, education and health services, financial activities, information, leisure and hospitality, manufacturing, natural resources and mining, professional and business services, trade, transportation and utilities, and the BLS's catch-all category, "other services....", "the National Association of Realtors--from the fourth quarter of 2006 to the fourth quarter of 2007...", and "Finally, our rankings were adjusted using data from a November 2007 report, "U.S. Metro Economies: The Mortgage Crisis," by the U.S. Conference of Mayors. It lists each city's estimated gross metropolitan product growth by projecting how rising foreclosures and falling home prices would affect overall levels of productivity in local economies."
http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/29/cities-recession-places-forbeslife-cx_jz_0429realestate.html

You didn't even bother to read the actual article before declaring it another evil conspiracy by Gregoire - as if she fooled Forbes Magazine into publishing a fraudulent report.
Why should anyone believe anything you post when you exclusively deal in lies, deceptions and conspiracy theories - like the preposterous suggestion that Forbes Magazine (no less) was the victim of misinformation supplied by the governor that got Seattle on the cover of their magazine as one of the TOP FIVE STATES TO DO BUSINESS.
Have you so little pride in our state that you can't even accept the truth about what a great place it is?

Posted by John

7:05 PM, Jul 23, 2008

“John,
So you are saying Forbes gave Washington State its ranking based solely on an interview with Gregoire? You really believe that?
You still have not “explained” to me how the blogger’s post counters the Forbes article.
And has been pointed out to you by others, including Postman, It’s a projected deficit. Let’s deal with facts shall we?”
Jamesb,
I was playing with you two again (I just can not help myself) ok, I’ll get to the point did you Read the Forbes story? I doubt it…
I know you two want so desperately help her and to give credit she dose not deserve you two will go to any extremes even twisting posts on this blog upside down to fit your agenda.
The large increase in manufacturing was Boeing thank Boeing not the queen for this.
The story as you do not know reflects inflated real estate sales.
The headline is Cities (Not the State of Washington) I too wish the queen was mayor of Seattle however; the current mayor may not like it.



Posted by JimD

7:07 PM, Jul 23, 2008

John wrote:
"...Your appointed queen was interviewed by Forbes she told a rosy picture of our state as she’s running for her life in this election year...."

Excuse me? You too?
That's a flat out lie, John.
The article says exactly where and how it drew its conclusins, and nowhere was the governor even mentioned.
And why should she be?
What does her opinion have to do with the facts and stastics they used?

Posted by JimD

7:18 PM, Jul 23, 2008

Good grief, John.
Not every publication is a web-site spewing high-opinion hae, or a trashy celebrity magazine about "queens" and the other things you seem to be interested in..
Forbes, Wall Street Journal, Fortune -- all the major, credible, specialty publishers business depends on for accurate, in-depth information that drives their business decissions agree;
The Seattle area and Washington State as a whole is a GREAT place to do business.
What is wrong with you?
Where is your pride?

Posted by John

7:23 PM, Jul 23, 2008


JimD
“Excuse me? You too?
That's a flat out lie, John.
The article says exactly where and how it drew its conclusins, and nowhere was the governor even mentioned.
And why should she be?

What does her opinion have to do with the facts and stastics they used? “


Exactly nothing, zip, zero..
Take out Boeing, home construction, real estate, and home loans where not that great.
Reminds me of the dot COM bubble Amazon never made a profit yet it stock was over $100.00 share. Great economy Jimd

Posted by John

7:31 PM, Jul 23, 2008

Good grief, John.
Not every publication is a web-site spewing high-opinion hae, or a trashy celebrity magazine about "queens" and the other things you seem to be interested in..
Forbes, Wall Street Journal, Fortune -- all the major, credible, specialty publishers business depends on for accurate, in-depth information that drives their business decissions agree;

The Seattle area and Washington State as a whole is a GREAT place to do business.
What is wrong with you?
Where is your pride?

Lol

I pay taxes to her fund too so I can call her anything I want, as she is my servant. Until she’s actually elected to mayor of seattle she’s the Queen.

Posted by JimD

8:05 PM, Jul 23, 2008

Here's something for you John - also from Forbes.
The ten most MEDICATED states.
No, they didn't call up the governors and write the report from their opinions.
This is a legitimate statistical study of which states consume the most prescription drugs per capita.

1 West Virginia
2 Missouri
3 Tennessee
4 Alabama
5 Kentucky
6 South Carolina
7 Louisiana
8 Arkansas
9 Mississippi
10 Iowa

http://www.forbes.com/2008/07/23/most-medicated-states-forbeslife-cx_avd_0723health_slide_11.html?thisSpeed=15000

I think in addition to the apparent availability of medication, John, you'll also find they have low taxes, low wages (few union jobs), low property values and relatively poor government services compared to Washington State.
And talk about queens!
Trust me, the south runneth-over...
Are you sure one of THESE states wouldn't be more to your liking than Washington?

Posted by John

9:38 PM, Jul 23, 2008


Jimd,


If the Queen was appointed to their states she could screw up their state budgets like she did ours and given the opportunity of corruption she has the possibility of gaining additional income.

Your point is you want her to go?

I agree.

I’m trying desperately not to call you a racist


Southern states such as Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana and South Carolina have some of the nation's largest black populations, according to the CDC. The American Diabetes Association estimates that black Americans are 1.6 times more likely to have diabetes than non-Latino whites. The group also experiences higher rates of some of the condition's serious complications, including cardiovascular disease.

I live so far away from Seattle the only time I think of it is driving my big fat truck while drinking bottle water that I just purchased in a plastic bag.

Posted by Bill

10:01 AM, Jul 24, 2008

"The region around Puget Sound is home to Microsoft, Amazon.com, Starbucks, Costco, Nordstrom and Washington Mutual.
What's more, home prices are only half that in the San Francisco Bay Area, and unemployment in the region is falling.
Of the 50 largest metropolitan statistical areas in the U.S., Seattle had the strongest growth in manufacturing in the past year."

JimD, it's -painfully- obvious you've never run your own business buddy.

Wow, home prices are only half of what they are in the Bay Area i.e. the most expensive area in the United States? That's like saying that Hanford is a great place to move because it's only half as polluted as Chernobyl.

Good point on manufacturing. Because If your business isn't manufacturing, this is a terrible state to conduct business in because of ridiculous B&O taxes, skyrocketing property and sales taxes among many, many other things. Check out the blanket contract that any vendor has to sign to do business with King County or the City of Seattle. It's a laundry list of hoops to jump through and kickbacks that adds no value at all to the services we provide, why all the needless regulation? To justify bloated County government, that's all.

I've done business in twelve states in my 55 years and this is easily the most top-heavy government I've dealt with of all of them, with the highest proportion of nickel and dime taxes here and there, but the least amount of services, coupled with the oldest infrastructure and weak, ineffectual leadership.

If the best argument you can come up with to support your contention that 'people are flocking here to start businesses' is a Forbes article that says nothing of the sort, save us all the trouble of reading your parroting. How about you read your articles to my business neighbors next door who are closing their boat motor shop after 25 years, or the 2 brothers up the street who own their dad's garage and are closing it when their lease is up.

Business may be booming for the big guys and national chains, but the small businesses are being squeezed right out of town, with the government's help, and you don't need to read Forbes to know when someone's blowing sunshine. Have a nice day.

Posted by JimD

11:16 AM, Jul 24, 2008

Bill,
Actually, I did run my own small business in downtown Seattle for eleven years.
And while there was no shortage of nickel-and-dime taxes and extortions - municipal, county state federal (and a few more I didn't even know existed) - that was to be balanced by a relatively affluent customer base with money in their pockets to spend on products and services in demand.
The measure of business opportunity includes the opportunity provided by the pool of potential customers, as well as the governmental hassles of actually conducting that business.
With the former, the Seattle area and Washington offers opportunity not found in many comparable metro areas.
The comparison to SF housing cost is relevant because the two areas are otherwise very similar - port cities of similar scale with surrounding cities and communities.
Seattle wins hands down on housing cost alone against our bay area sister city.

I'm sorry about your boat shop friends, but rising fuel prices and the toll they're taking on other discretionary spending may not make this the best time to operate a specialty, luxury service like that.
The ever increasing cost of lea sable business property and low vacancy rate certainly suggests there's no shortage of success among those marketing products and services currently in demand.
I too eventually suffered the consequence of a product that fell out of favor - in my case, as tastes in entertainment and leisure time changed over the years.
I did not blame the government, and neither should those who can't make a buck in one of the most successful regions of the country.

Posted by xteve

11:26 AM, Jul 24, 2008

"I'm sorry about your boat shop friends, but rising fuel prices and the toll they're taking on other discretionary spending may not make this the best time to operate a specialty, luxury service like that."

Hang on a second - your contention is that this is a booming, affluent area. In theory that's exactly the type of business that should be thriving if the local economy is as good as you claim. (Though to be honest Bill never said if the service was a luxury one or not - for all we know it could have been a small boat service)

You can't have it both ways, Jim.

Posted by John

12:16 PM, Jul 24, 2008

“Actually, I did run my own small business in downtown Seattle for eleven years.
And while there was no shortage of nickel-and-dime taxes and extortions - municipal, county state federal (and a few more I didn't even know existed) - that was to be balanced by a relatively affluent customer base with money in their pockets to spend on products and services in demand.”

“Then”

This is a remarkable experience. For anyone to start a business in downtown Seattle and stay in business past the historical mark of five years.

“ A relatively affluent customer base with money in their pockets to spend on products and services in demand.”

To stay in business for additional 6 years is outstanding.

“Today”
Living in a 6’x8’ box 24-7

This is a heart-warming story.


Posted by JimD

12:25 PM, Jul 24, 2008

xsteve wrote:
"Hang on a second - your contention is that this is a booming, affluent area. In theory that's exactly the type of business that should be thriving if the local economy is as good as you claim. (Though to be honest Bill never said if the service was a luxury one or not - for all we know it could have been a small boat service) You can't have it both ways, Jim."

You miss the point. The Seattle metro area is one of the best places to do business among the 50 other major cities ranked by Forbe's.

We are not, however, immune to the effects of a national, across-the-board fuel and credit/capitol crisis.
I think most would agree that boating falls into the "luxury" classification of discretionary spending, as would the repair and maintenance of the equipment required, and would be in a temporary down-turn as a good portion of it's enthusiasts scramble to cut expenses to fuel their more necessary transportation, etc.

Or perhaps, like in my case, Bill's friends neither have the ability or desire to adjust to constantly changing consumer needs.
Perhaps increasingly modern boat motors need less repair, or a better repair facility is stealing their customers.
Maybe his friends with the garage are seeing the effect of folks delaying maintenance and repairs to bridge the additional cost of fuel and retail inflation.

No one's entitled to success.
And the #1 component to long time success - as Bill agrees if he's really the businessman he claims - is the ability to constantly change and adapt to current and conditions, and perhaps even more importantly, the ability to see those changes on the horizon in time to make those adjustments.
I don't care if you're selling sandwiches or airplanes -- you can't rest on your laurels and expect things to remain the same.
Too often, established business that eventually fail have done just that.
Not saying Bill or his friends deserve that accusation, just that the Seattle metro is ripe with opportunity compared to most other metro areas, and the RIGHT businesses for the real-time opportunity of the present do very well.
If you can't generate enough net profit to pay your taxes and fees, your business model is failing, since those expenses are an inherent cost of doing business.
Blaming the government for a lack of sufficient income to keep your head above water (and then some) is the mark of a rank amateur who probably lacks the skill or ability to adjust to the inevitably dynamic nature of business itself, or who's business concept has simply passed its prime.

Posted by JimD

12:41 PM, Jul 24, 2008

“Today
Living in a 6’x8’ box 24-7
This is a heart-warming story."

John...lol.
Believe it or not, I enjoy my current chosen adventure more than when I ran my last business in Seattle, despite it's commercial success and the money I socked away.
And with a little luck, I'll enjoy the next one even more..and the one after that even more...
Heartwarming? Not sure about that, but I'm a very lucky man.

Posted by John

2:35 PM, Jul 24, 2008


You’re a lucky man you found what career is best for you, majority never do.
.

Posted by SayWHat?

12:00 PM, Jul 25, 2008

"The comparison to SF housing cost is relevant because the two areas are otherwise very similar - port cities of similar scale with surrounding cities and communities.
Seattle wins hands down on housing cost alone against our bay area sister city."

Seattle loses on transportation. After the 1988 Loma Prietta Quake, SF addressed their deadly viaduct well within the 7 years it has taken Seattlle to even think about trying come to a decision of what they maybe might want try to contemplate a possible solution to thinking abouit what they could possibly want to maybe perhaps give a try to investigating a possible outcome to perhaps addressing the Alaskan Way Viaduct tragedy in waiting.

Posted by JimD

8:03 AM, Jul 26, 2008

Seattle's viaduct (SR-99) has been retrofitted into one of the safest pieces of elevated roadway in the area. It is continuously monitored for any changes and is doing fine, while Seattle decides what it wants to do with THEIR waterfront - a process that arguably has gone on a long time, but represents no more risk of collapsing than large sections of elevated I-5, for example.
The SF area collapses did not occur on a aesthetically controversial roadways, and therefore did not present the opportunity or need to consider significant alternatives.
It should be noted that although the viaduct is indeed a state roadway, it's also a local access road through miles of prime Seattle waterfront, and is Seattle's call, for all intents and purposes.
In the meantime, it moves thousands of vehicles a day and facilitates untold commercial transportation vital to the area's economy.

Posted by JimD

11:05 AM, Jul 26, 2008

"Seattle loses on transportation."

You've obviously never driven in and out of SF in rush hour traffic.
I do every so often in my work, and I'd say the comparison to Seattle is about a toss-up.
Which goes to prove that no matter how many lanes you add, how many restricted ocupancy lanes are opened-up, how well the stuface street stoplights are timed, or how good your light rail and alternative transportation is, vehicle count will ALWAYS expand to choke the roads in large, successful metro areas.

Posted by SayWhat?

10:46 AM, Jul 27, 2008

"Seattle's viaduct (SR-99) has been retrofitted into one of the safest pieces of elevated roadway in the area. It is continuously monitored for any changes and is doing fine, while Seattle decides what it wants to do with THEIR waterfront - a process that arguably has gone on a long time, but represents no more risk of collapsing than large sections of elevated I-5, for example."


Apparently JimD has been drinking the kool-aid and inhaling. Even Gregoire's OWN TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT strongly disagrees with him.

"The Moving Forward projects will repair or replace about half of the seismically vulnerable viaduct."

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/viaduct

SEISMICALLY VULNERABLE does not equal "one of the safest pieces of elevated roadway in the area".

Wow, the bold faced lies that the Gregoire sycophants will tell to help her cling to power is amazing. Right out of the gate it was ethnic slurs against Italian Americans and now bold faced lying regarding the SEISMICALLY VULNERABLE viaduct.

Let's hope we get Gregoire out of there before people get hurt on the SEISMICALLY VULNERABLE elevated structure.

Posted by Siesmically_Vulnerable_Viaduct

10:51 AM, Jul 27, 2008

Who doe people want to trust on the viaduct, a Gregoire political operative like JimD, or the transportation experts int eh Washington State Department of Transportation?

JimD tells us it is "one of the safest pieces of elevated roadway in the area. "


What does the WSDOT say?

"The Alaskan Way Viaduct plays a major role in sustaining our economy and maintaining our citizens' ability to travel to and throughout Seattle. However, the viaduct, along with the seawall, is at risk of failure from earthquakes (with unacceptable risk to lives as well as property) and irreversible loss of use from age and deterioration. The structure must be replaced."

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/viaduct

Posted by JimD

11:50 AM, Jul 27, 2008

The Viaduct replacement project has been underway since last year.

WSDOT's Move Forward project includes:
"
>Column safety repairs in the Pioneer Square area
>Electrical line relocation along the viaduct's south end
>North end seismic upgrades from Lenora Street to Battery Street
>Battery Street Tunnel upgrades
>South end viaduct replacement from S. Holgate >Street to S. King Street
>Transit enhancements and other improvements

Construction on the first Moving Forward project began in 2007. All of the Moving Forward projects are expected to be completed by 2012, when we will begin to remove the viaduct along the central waterfront..."
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/Viaduct/

In the meantime, the Viaduct has been temporarily retrofitted to perform it's now final years, and is monitored and inspected to ensure its constant integrity.
In the event of an earthquake more severe than those the Viaduct has survived to date, there are many aging bridges and elevated roadways not benefiting from the continuous scrutiny and attention given Seattle's most controversial roadway.

(I am, of course, not a political operative, but do happen to work in transportation's private sector)

Posted by anyonesguess

3:45 PM, Jul 27, 2008

If memory serves me I remember the politicians telling us we need to vote now on the replacement as any day it will collapse.
Was this a ploy to spend our money or was this for real?

Posted by JimD

6:38 PM, Jul 27, 2008

I'm not so sure you memory is serving you that correctly.
I don't reacall anyone saying, "any day it could collapse".
Quite the contrary, the shifting has stopped, the retro fit is holding well and WSDOT vouches for its safety every day it permits traffic to use it.

Posted by Seismically_Vulnerable

11:42 PM, Jul 27, 2008

"The Viaduct replacement project has been underway since last year."

No it has been underway since 2001. It is just that other than patch up the crumbling structure with duct tape, bailing wire and bubble gum, no real progress has been made on actually constructing a replacement. As Gregoire sycophant JimD points out, no construction is even scheduled to being until 2012, whatever that might be. It will have been 11 years by then and the chance that we might have a seismic event that collapses the SEISMICALLY VULNERABLE STRUCTURE (* Official designation by Gregoire's own DOT experts) is great.

Posted by JimD

7:35 AM, Jul 29, 2008

"...the chance that we might have a seismic event that collapses the SEISMICALLY VULNERABLE STRUCTURE... is great."

Really?
What exactly are those statistical chances? (measured in percentage or whatever you wish)
Are they greater than the chances the Viaduct has survived the last sixty-something years?
Does the retrofit not make the Viaduct less seismically vulnerable than it has ever been since constructed?
And isn't the retrofit part of the replacement process (holding it up until we tear it down) as WSDOT describes above and on their web site?
Does WSDOT's seismically vulnerable classification mean "at any minute it can fall down"?
Or does it refer to "the big one", where it's original design and the seismic improvements may not hold?
Do you have any idea what you're talking about, or are you just finding an excuse to dismiss WSDOT's carefully planned process in favor of a hysterically precipitous destruction of a vital link in our already woefully inadequate surface transportation network?

Look - it's NOT going to fall down at any minute.
It does, of course, have to be replaced in keeping with our advanced understanding of the seismic design flaws that were not understood when it was originally built.
And the sooner the better, since science has predicted that a serious seismic catastrophe will eventually hit Puget Sound again.
But ripping it down without a way to move the traffic and facilitate our economy (which it does quite safely right now during the interim), makes as much sense as responding to the 9/11 terrorist attack by invading a country that had nothing to do with it.

Recent entries

Jul 28, 08 - 03:52 PM
I know when I've been proven wrong

Jul 28, 08 - 10:39 AM
When losing pays off

Jul 28, 08 - 08:28 AM
New state campaign money site

Jul 23, 08 - 07:36 AM
Step away from the blog and no one gets hurt

Jul 22, 08 - 03:08 PM
Gregoire & Eyman, "getting real results in tough times"

Advertising

Marketplace

Mechanic double-checks his air-bag worknew
Dear Tom and Ray: Last week, for one of my best customers, I replaced a very difficult steering rack. The ALLDATA instructions called for air-bag and ...
Post a comment

Advertising

Advertising

Categories
Calendar

July

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
    1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31    
Browse the archives

July 2008

June 2008

May 2008

April 2008

March 2008

February 2008

Advertising

Buy a link here