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Postman on Politics

Chief political reporter David Postman explores state, regional and national politics.

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June 30, 2008 1:09 PM

"GOP" is a mystery to 1 in 4

Posted by David Postman

Dino Rossi's rebranding effort may pay off with voters who say they don't know what it means when a candidate declares himself a member of the "GOP Party." That's what Rossi used when he filed for office, saying that it is an insult to voters to suggest that they don't know the initials for Grand Old Party, an old Republican nickname.

A recent poll by Stuart Elway says that about 25 percent of respondents didn't know what GOP meant. In the most recent Elway Poll voters were asked which party they thought was meant when a candidate lists party preference as "GOP Party."

75 percent said Republican party.

15 percent didn't know.

7 percent said Democratic

3 percent said other.

And it will come as no surprise that of those who said they didn't know, or got it wrong, the biggest chunk, 27 percent, describe themselves as independent. That's where the greatest benefit of rebranding could come for a Republican trying to buck a 24-year gubernatorial losing streak for the party.

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Posted by John

2:36 PM, Jun 30, 2008

Typical bias by the times keeps bring up the same stuff over and over again. to whoever "hint"

This makes twice you posted this bit of "who really cares" on the blog. to whoever "hint"


The Gov. and the casino back door trick, which was despicable, showed up once. to whoever "hint"

Are we going to have equal coverage? Knowing the spineless seattle times I doubt it.
to whoever "hint"

Posted by John

3:27 PM, Jun 30, 2008


This makes twice you posted this bit of "who really cares" on the blog. to whoever "hint"

Correction:

This makes 3 TIMES you posted this bit of "who really cares" on the blog. to whoever "hint" also 1,2,3 for whoever.


Posted by An Informed Voter

3:34 PM, Jun 30, 2008

Unfortunately, I'm sure that more than 25% of people are uninformed on things much more important than the meaning of GOP. I doubt that many of those uninformed 25% are likely voters. Give us a break, Postman. Did you commission Stuart to look into this for you? Inquiring minds want to know.

Dino must have done something to irritate you. You sure seem to have it out for him. You don't seem to get too worked up about many other things, but you do seem to think Dino's really pulling one over on the poor, stupid electorate.

Posted by John's Daddy

3:35 PM, Jun 30, 2008

Greedy Oil Party can't, and won't win in this state in 2008 regardless of how hard they try to disassociate themselves from their godawful track record.

Posted by John

3:52 PM, Jun 30, 2008

"The fence around the public demonstration zone outside the Democratic National Convention will be chicken wire authorities revealed in U.S. District Court today."

Good choice of wire don't you think?

Posted by jamesb

4:30 PM, Jun 30, 2008

John,

Buddy, you just canít tell the whole truth about anything if it doesnít suit your needs can you? ďchicken wire or chain linkĒ was what the news reports said.

Posted by John

4:46 PM, Jun 30, 2008

To whoever,
I'm reporting this as the seattle times would if it was Republican convention.
I will correct it tomorrow or maybe next week but, I will correct this, not on the front page where is was headlines but in selection " E" page 39 next to the O.B. column. That way the chicken wire will remain in memory of the 12 Seattle TIMES readers.
Oh, maybe you will Google it next month to find the correction :) "hint"

Never say the SEATTLE TIMES is bias.
"Hint"


Posted by jamesb

4:56 PM, Jun 30, 2008

John,

Have you realized the chicken wire would be to hold back protesters at the Democratic Convention? The Secret Service may feel chicken wire is all that would be needed to restraint a herd of yellow elephants. (nudge, nudge wink.wink say no more)

Posted by John

5:15 PM, Jun 30, 2008

To whoever,
Are we getting your CHICKEN FEATHERS up.

Maybe you can make a real come back instead of a lame response.

Posted by Laurence Ballard

6:13 PM, Jun 30, 2008

"John" could show everyone his own fortitude if he had the courage to sign his full name to his grandstanding posts.

"hint" indeed.

So Mr. Rossi is a member of the "GOP Party"-- Grand Old Party Party? Does the failed gubernatorial also use a 'PIN number' when he banks at an ATM? What will he propose for his platform platform? Or budget budget? By failing to stand up to the name of his President's political affiliation, it looks like the crafty character is hoping for a win win.

Posted by Jan

6:28 PM, Jun 30, 2008

Maybe the Democrats will spend some money making sure people know that GOP means Republican and that Dino Rossi is a Republican.

Posted by John

6:32 PM, Jun 30, 2008

Laurence Ballard,
John D'Oris
Laurence if you had any honesty to your post you would include your Social Security number.

If you can't defend the issue change the subject.


Posted by John

6:36 PM, Jun 30, 2008

two letters in my last name need to be switched.
To whoever that is 1 and 2
Let's see how smart we are today....

Posted by Laurence Ballard

6:39 PM, Jun 30, 2008

Touched a nerve, did we, Mr. D'Oris?

Posted by John

6:48 PM, Jun 30, 2008

Laurence Ballard Wrote:
Touched a nerve, did we, Mr. D'Oris?

No,No,No, you spelled it the same as I did.
You need to (Change word) flip, two letters. "Hint"
I'm Italian remember?
Come on now guess you don't has a S.S number ?

Posted by Laurence Ballard

7:02 PM, Jun 30, 2008

Oh for heaven's sake, you can't even spell your own name correctly when asked. How can anyone on this blog take you seriously? Like a child--and Washington State Republicans--even your own identifying appellation is a game.

You may now go outside and play.

Posted by JimD

7:07 PM, Jun 30, 2008

Rossi's Grand Old Proboscidea can kiss my big democrat donkey.

Posted by John

7:13 PM, Jun 30, 2008

You gals or guys are great !
Keep them rolling.........

Posted by John

7:34 PM, Jun 30, 2008

We have upchuck who thinks (maybe not) he is a freedom fighter living in Bellevue.

Jimd whose boss will not allow him to drive a truck.

Canít forget jamesb who thinks he is a boss.

Lastly we have Lawrence of Arabia who thinks heís in Ballard.

With a cast like this you really think Iím going to tell you my name.

Next you would want my address.

Next my house would be burned down.
You liberals are really funny....

Posted by upchuck

7:48 PM, Jun 30, 2008

...and John, the local idiot who never got past 3rd grade but still thinks he knows everything.

Posted by John

7:56 PM, Jun 30, 2008

OOPS the flood gates are open, Who first but the freedom fighter. You can do better than that upchuck I seen your remarks in the (mens) public restrooms.

Posted by YIKES

10:32 PM, Jun 30, 2008

Hey David-
Why not spend some time digging into something that really matters. Like the $2.7 BILLION deficit yer gal Gregoire created out of a huge surpls being adding 8000+ new State Employees and other massive spending increases.
What's she gonna do Dave...
Cut Spending? If so., what?
Raise Taxes? If so what?

No other options David.
What not ask her??
Thought you were a believer in Sunshine Laws about Open Government.

Guess your excuse is if you keep your eyes closed, it's somehow ok.
Ask the legitimate questions cowardly Dave.

Posted by JimD

10:38 PM, Jun 30, 2008

John, you're getting to the point of annoying.
Right or wrong, respectful or cruel, smart or dumb - our commonality here is an interest in at least SOME semblance of a political discussion.
The majority of your posts are just childish, personal nonsense with no apparent purpose - other than to defy the purpose of the blog.
That's not to say many of us don't drift into similar behavior on occasion - including the post I'm writing right now, in all fairness.
The difference is - your prolific and consistently trashy talk has truly lowered the bar to a new level.
It's virtually ALL you do, instead of an occasional bad moment.

This is the only Seattle times blog where our posts go up immediately without prior review.
I'm concerned that your contribution may force David to adopt a similar policy - which would spoil the good thing we've got here.
Could you be the bigger man sometimes and not feel the need to answer every swipe with a personal insult?
Could you work harder at helping us discuss issues, instead of you?
Cause when you've put your mind to it on a couple occasions, you've actually made a couple good points.
Please try harder to bring it up a notch more often, and take the tit-for-tat personal stuff down a notch at the same time - for all of us. Ok?

Posted by John

12:07 AM, Jul 01, 2008

To whoever,
Youíre expecting me to take your comments seriously or this so called unbiased blog seriously.

Are you really so naÔve to suggest this blog is about discussion with no agenda?

Letís get a few facts straight this post of postman has been brought up three times 1,2,3, still following me jimd. No reasons to keep bring it up as discussion so itís a joke by postman or agenda against the Republicans.

Your everyday long winded posting of 1000 words and spill out finally 3 statements that you cannot prove, as facts are laughable not serious discussions.

You accused me of saying those horrible things about Senator McCain without any proof granted I have attacked you with some stuff however that was over the line.
You accuse me of being other people with no proof, then threaten me with the seattle times computer / IPS tracker, I say do it.

Sometime I get the feeling your postman.

Then your jamesb attacks my religion and I should just roll over

If you think anyone on this blog is going to change to Democrat because of whatís said here youíre a bigger fool than I thought.

Out of 14 who log on to this site 3 are well known liberals with a leaning toward socialism. 10 are Independent and Republicans and finally we have the freedom fighter from South America.

Your writing about ďFairnessĒ grow up life isnít fair besides thatís a liberal word with no meaning.

To say I have lowered the bar means there was a starting point on this blog get real jimd!

I have asked all of you (jimd, jamesb and him) to pickup and will go to your favorite Anti-America web site and leave this web site. You say you donít know what Iím talking about. LOL

For you to worry about postman delaying dialog, not to worry that would take some work by him wonít happen.

If you would only answered my questions about BHO to begin with none of this would have happen now itís too late you made the bed you sleep in it. Same for this morning I replied to your message to me about business absorbing cost with no malice in my post. You never answered it. Why cause I didnít insult you tell me you donít love it.

Your daily altitude is like a woman with PMS (no slam on the ladies) never knows when youíll go off.

My objective is to annoy you three 1,2,3

Tell your buddy postman to have a posting everyday just for me and Iíll stay out of your world.

Finally there is only me ďJohnĒ no Jack, Jim, William or whoever you accused me of being.

Posted by JimD

12:15 AM, Jul 01, 2008

Yikes,
Look, Rossi gives us precious little of his policies or proposals to talk about - if he actually has any.
Gregoire is in there, working every day, going on the record and discussing all manner of the state's business on a regular basis.

If you think Rossi's attempt to rebrand himself as something other than a republican is trivial - compared to what else he's done that's newsworthy?

Virtually nothing, except launching an attack campaign against Gregoire - which would be fine if he stepped up to the plate and started talking about what HE would do as governor.
But he hasn't.
I'm surprised Postman finds anything of substance to post regarding Rossi.
But short of any solutions or specific proposals from his campaign, the only news left is his attempt to run on a third party in name only.
And that IS newsworthy, since it fits in with the rest of his campaign to date - all attitude, no substance.

Posted by jamesb

12:16 AM, Jul 01, 2008

Perhaps those of us who would like to debate politics should agree to ignore the troll and posts the like of his.

Posted by YIKES

12:54 AM, Jul 01, 2008

JimD sez:
"Yikes,
Gregoire is in there, working every day, going on the record and discussing all manner of the state's business on a regular basis."

Therein lies the problem JimD
She is actually trying...but obviously does know what she is doing. Worse yet, she doesn't KNOW that she doesn't know!
Gregoire has a record to run against...albeit mighty poor. SHE created the fiscal trainwreck. It is logical to ask how she is going to fix the mess she created. ...raise taxes or Cut expenses and which ones.

As the person in power, she can try to dodge this question....which she has to date. I happen to think her continued dodging will result in her trip to the unemployment line.

JimD...who in their right mind would vote for a career bureaucrat who created a $2.7 BILLION deficit out of a huge surplus and has no plan to fix it??

Posted by AD

12:58 AM, Jul 01, 2008

"And that IS newsworthy, since it fits in with the rest of his campaign to date - all attitude, no substance."

This comment reminded me of another prominent politician who's spent his adult life doing nothing but running for office. Oh, except I guess he was a community organizer for a while -- whatever that means. Organized bake sales? Whatever.

You criticize Dino for being all attitude and no substance... hmmm.. what do you think about Barack?

Obama was an Illinois state senator and voted "present" on 138 bills. Basically, if it was controversial, didn't take a stand.

Obama became a United States Senator, passed one bill, and started running for President. He was appointed chair of a subcommittee, but didn't hold any hearings because he was busy running for President.

"all attitude, no substance."

Posted by Laurence Ballard

6:20 AM, Jul 01, 2008

Back to Mr. Postman's point re: D. Rossi's 'change' from Republican to GOP Party:

If the Democratic Party of WA can't figure out a loud, funny, and populist way to capitalize on and profit from this jawdropping example of snide avarice, then they're even more gutless, egg-headed, and useless than I always knew they were--and deserving of any votes they lose.

Ballsy Democrats could have a field day with this.

LB
http://aseriesofsmallacts.blogspot.com/

Posted by Methow Ken

8:08 AM, Jul 01, 2008

Again on David's original thread start headline:

For everyone trying to make an issue of the Rossi campaign listing ''GOP'' instead of ''Republican'' on the ballot this year: All Rossi campaign signs that I saw in 2004 said ''GOP'' instead of ''Republican'', just like they do in 2008.

That doesn't mean I dispute the findings of the Elway poll. I'm just pointing out that the Rossi campaign has been consistent WRT sign verbiage. And ''GOP'' has been used interchangeably with ''Republican'' for a long time by many campaigns all over the country.

Posted by Bothsides

8:12 AM, Jul 01, 2008

JimD,

You know how to read. You can go to Dino's web site and he DOES give details of his plans, for instance, his transportation plan which was SPELLED out here in this newspaper, so cut the BS about there being no substance an debate the issues/differences the two candidates have. I could to tell you some things Dino Rossi will not do: Ignore DSHS and the foster care system, let sexual predators out of jail, piss away a surplus and put us in a 2 Billion dollar whole, add scores of people to the states payroll, give huge raises to the state employees (to buy votes), and cater to the tribes by increasing gambling/casinos etc. all the while raking in big bucks for the campaign coffers.

Posted by This Makes Me Tired

8:59 AM, Jul 01, 2008

If Rossi is being funded through the Republican Party, then he's required to declare himself a Republican candidate.

Since the "GOP Party" isn't a registered political party, if Rossi is being funded through this entity, such funding would fall under the 527 rule, putting Rossi on a par with the NRA or Swiftboat Veterans for Truth.

Bottom-line: By representing himself this way, Rossi has shown himself to be disingenuous to his party and the electorate. Chris by a landslide.

Posted by Methow Ken

10:51 AM, Jul 01, 2008

''This Makes Me Tired'' claims Rossi is REQUIRED to declare himself to be a ''Republican'' on the ballot.

''This Makes Me Tired'' has pretty obviously never checked the SOS website, or paid attention to the electronic / print media.

Just to put this canard to bed once and for all:
From the SOS ''Declaration of Candidacy'' Form:

''If you would like to state your preference, fill in the name of the party, up to 16 characters.''
and
''If you want to use initials, separate each letter with a period (e.g., G.O.P.)''

SUMMARY: A candidate can put ANYTHING THEY WANT for party up to 16 bytes, as long as it's not obscene; and the SOS even gives ''G.O.P.'' as an EXAMPLE.

''This Makes me Tired'': Go get a long rest.

Posted by Particle Man

11:47 AM, Jul 01, 2008

Ken my crusty friend, the fact Dino has used the GOP letters in place of Republican previously, does not change the fact that his intent is to confuse the voters about his true affiliation.
His use of GOP goes back a ways and I think had its root in the contract on America days of Newt Gingrich / GoPAC.
The how to book of tricks which Rossi has used from the start include such things as:
1. Have your wife write a letter to voters about what a peach you are.
2. Avoid stating a position on ballot measures
3. Avoid stating positions on wedge issues
4. Mask your party affiliation
5. Make up a good back story (classic brick apartment buildings my ass)
6. Be a candidate of God through gestures and the language you use.(but know no limits in terms of tactics)
and on and on.
In many ways, Dino as a used car (I mean real-estate) salesman was a natural in terms of pulling off this series of evasions. The voters deserve a chance to fully understand who the candidates for a given office are, and this time they will get this chance even if Rossi must be dragged kicking and crying all the way to the confessional.

Posted by iamthehousedog

1:56 PM, Jul 01, 2008

Perhaps the GOP will have better ideas than the Republican party? Perhaps the GOP Party will get us out of Iraq? Perhaps the GOP Party will provide for real transportation solutions in Washington? Perhaps the GOP Party will help education become a real priority in Washington State? Perhaps the GOP Party will insure medical coverage for all who need it but can't afford it?

Here is hoping that the Grand Old Party Party can do all of these things.

Obviously Party here is redundant - the next 4 years are going to be anything but a party - no matter who wins.

Posted by Postman

2:24 PM, Jul 01, 2008

John, you're pretty much one-note Johnny. I understand you don't think this subject is interesting and maybe you should skip the next one I write. To suggest that I"m writing about this and not about issues relating to Gov. Gregoire is obviously untrue. Given that anybody who reads this blog as carefully as you do would know that, I can only conclude you're most interested in insulting me, not talking about substance.

And Yikes, does it strike you at all odd to be questioning my courage when you hide behind "Yikes"?

Posted by Particle Man

2:37 PM, Jul 01, 2008

David, this should be a warning to massengers everywhere.
Rossi tactic #3 is shoot the messenger.

Posted by John

4:10 PM, Jul 01, 2008

postman,
You do act when your buddies e-mail you.


Posted by Potsman

4:25 PM, Jul 01, 2008

Postman,

Jimd, Cut the BS and say facts.
Jamesb, Get a life.
Upchuck, ?
Yikes, Itís not him.
P.M. Act like a man for once.

Posted by JimD

10:35 PM, Jul 01, 2008

Both sides wrote:
"...I could to tell you some things Dino Rossi will not do: Ignore DSHS and the foster care system, let sexual predators out of jail, piss away a surplus and put us in a 2 Billion dollar whole, add scores of people to the states payroll...."

What you say Rossi "will not" do is pretty much what republicans DO do - underfund the needy, spend through a surplus like a drunken sailor, grow government.
Calling himself GOP doesn't mean he's not the same old republican crook he always was - the ilk of Bush and the alike who make democrats look like spend-thrifts.
There'd be rioting in the streets if he tried to cut spending enough to do all that, and he certainly couldn't improve DSHS, foster care or anything else.

As for Rossi's so-called transportation plan - he can't possibly scratch the surface of his proposals with the modest investment he's suggesting, unless he steals the materials and hires cheap foreign labor...who probably won't work THAT cheap anyway.
It's just more pie in the sky fantasy - elect me and I'll get you more for less - that no one takes it seriously...well almost no one.

Posted by JimD

10:45 PM, Jul 01, 2008

Yikes wrote:
"...Therein lies the problem JimD
She is actually trying...but obviously does know what she is doing. Worse yet, she doesn't KNOW that she doesn't know!
Gregoire has a record to run against...albeit mighty poor. SHE created the fiscal trainwreck...."

Talking about not knowing what you don't know! (btw, is that a Rumsfeldism?)
Do you know the country's in a catastrophic financial meltdown?
Do you know that tax revenues are plummeting
everywhere and at all levels of government?
And do you know that EVERY state is struggling with skyrocketing expenses and dwindling revenue?

Gregoire "created the fiscal tranwreck?"
Well, she sure has a lot of interstate influence then because the train's left the track in all fifty states.

Posted by JimD

10:47 PM, Jul 01, 2008

...and the district of Columbia.

Posted by private24

6:26 AM, Jul 02, 2008

GOP = Graveyard Of Progress.

Posted by Bothsides

7:59 AM, Jul 02, 2008

JimD,

Try and focus here. We are talking about the state of Washington and the Governor, not GWB or Congress. As far as I can tell, the D's have had control of our state for quite some time, so you can't blame the Republicans for blowing through our surplus and creating a huge deficit, it's all on the Gov and the legislature.

"It's just more pie in the sky fantasy - elect me and I'll get you more for less - that no one takes it seriously...well almost no one." Would that be almost no one like just shy of 50%, like say around 200 voters, you live in a fantasy world, of course most liberals do, you can't believe that the rest of the world doesn't share your beliefs or opinions. Me, I'll just keep driving you libs crazy by working hard and being happy, I know you can't stand that.

Posted by JimD

9:20 AM, Jul 02, 2008

I'm talking about the financial chaos virtually every state has been thrown into - mostly by market conditions beyond their control, combined with irresponsible federal ADMINISTRATION (sending billions of our tax dollars to Iraq instead of using it here at home).
And that includes a lot of states run by republicans who would no-doubt trade their desperate situations for the more fiscally responsible choices we've made in a heartbeat.

I'm not saying Gregoire and our democratic reps in Olympia haven't made note worthy mistakes.
But compared to what?
These state train wrecks are caused more by the tracks falling away, than the piloting skills of their engineers and brakemen, regardless of party affiliation.

I'm not really concerned about your personal happiness, but thanks for sharing.
I work very hard and have a nice life too. Cheers! :-)

Posted by John

9:52 AM, Jul 02, 2008

2.6 billion in the hole next year due to your Gov.
Who put fiscal responsibility on the back burner to buy votes. Jimd, can you focus? knowing you as I do the answer to this is NO,No,No ,not a insult ! :)

Hint to jimd look at her spending ending this year 95% to special interest groups to buy votes for her re-election.

Have a happy day :)

PS D.P. e-mailed me to say I have to be nice to you girls or something bad will happen to my compter.
Cheers,


Posted by Wiz

10:45 AM, Jul 02, 2008

Hi JimD,

I think what Bothsides is trying to say (keep me honest here Bothsides) is that the direction Queen G is taking us is not the direction that informed people who want to keep a good portion of their earnings want to go. There is absolutely NO REASON to increase spending and add 8000 employees to the payroll if your revenues are projected to fall. I am enough of a realist to know that Government will never be run as efficiently as a business, but come on...The decisions she is making do not make sense from a fiscal perspective.

Now this isn't all her fault. She had promises to keep. She had raises to give. She had revenue to decline (indian gaming)

Rossi is a business man. He understands the basics of running a business. He cannot come in and say "hey, I am going to cut spending by increasing productivity of Government employees. If he does, every state employee, teacher and union member will vote against him. Think about it. If you could vote for your boss, would you vote for someone who is going to hold you accountable and expect productivity, or someone who will give you a raise and accept mediocre productivity?

Posted by Bothsides

11:42 AM, Jul 02, 2008

Thanks WIZ, yes that's the direction. JimD, this thread is not about every other state or the Federal Government. The facts are, the D's in our state government have failed to take care of our money. They have taken a surplus and squadered it away. Wiz hits the mark, how can you justify huge pay increases for state employees without justification, I know the answer, it's that they will vote for her. It cracks me up when she rolls out the police and fire endorsements, all the unions are going to go D, it's where their bread gets buttered from.

As for the Fed, take me back to the balanced budget days of the contract with America...yes, GWB has pissed that one away with his Iraq funding requests, no argument there.

Posted by JimD

2:59 PM, Jul 03, 2008

"...Think about it. If you could vote for your boss, would you vote for someone who is going to hold you accountable and expect productivity, or someone who will give you a raise and accept mediocre productivity?..."

Honestly, I'd probably vote for the former.
I despise working in sloth and with the managers who perpetuate it.
I've been served well by performing above expectation and being recognized for it.
But you're putting to much faith in Rossi in my opinion, if you think he's going to work miracles with this huge bureaucracy, which changes direction about as easily as a mile-long train of coal going 70mph.
Indeed - Rossi could only take a chain saw to state government to accomplish his stated goals.
I simply don't want that, in exchange for the modest decrease in cost it would provide.
We may not be headed in exactly the right direction, but that's no reason to act precipitously (although I know full well that's EXACTLY what some want at any cost to the government services they don't even think should exist)
And in fact - government is NOT a business, and should not be run like one. (shocking, I know, but that's a conservative principle we've lost along the way)
Government is an instructional entity that provides services without the expectation of profit.
I'm all for bringing-in sound management principles of accountability, subjective goals analysis and the best way to achieve them..etc.
But when you talk about Rossi the businessman, running the state like he'd run a business, I get concerned he might actually do just that.
I frankly think he'd be better off starting with a Subway franchise and working his way up.
Nothing to date has shown me any admirable business skills I'd want Rossi as chief executive to apply to our state - certainly not how he's run and raised money for his campaign where he's proved to be an unethical administrator by any standard.

Posted by upchuck

10:08 PM, Jul 06, 2008

Wiz, the question is not whether govt can run as effiiently as business - it's who's interest is it working for??? as such, what expenses are being cut for who's gain to make it more "efficient".

An example in the extreme: certainly Enron was more efficient at making money for themselves, but much less efficient than Cali's public utilities at making sure all residents received reliable electrical service.

Posted by JimD

10:29 AM, Jul 07, 2008

upchuck is correct.
The under-regulated privatization of California's electrical service was a huge disaster - because it created a profit incentive that didn't exist under government control.
Investment speculators took advantage of the opportunity to INTENTIONALY strangle supply (sound familiar?) which reaped them huge profits when rates went through the roof and created a debt that's still being repaid.

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