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May 22, 2008 9:50 AM
Two pounds of pot too much for the governor
Posted by David Postman
Last year, nine years after Washington voters approved a medical marijuana law, the Legislature passed a bill designed to clarify, among other things, what exactly qualifies as the 60-day supply of pot patients are allowed to possess.
The legislature intends to clarify the law on medical marijuana so that the lawful use of this substance is not impaired and medical practitioners are able to exercise their best professional judgment in the delivery of medical treatment, qualifying patients may fully participate in the medical use of marijuana, and designated providers may assist patients in the manner provided by this act without fear of state criminal prosecution.
The Legislature didn’t consider itself experts in the world of medical marijuana and didn’t come up with specifics on what is a defensible, two-month supply. Instead, lawmakers directed the state Department of Health to hold hearings, talk to experts, research medical literature, and come up with a regulation that as of July 1 of this year was supposed to give patients, doctors and law enforcement an answer.
The Department of Health did all that. And it recommended allowing proposed a rule that would allow more than two pounds of pot every two months. But as Times reporter Carol Ostrom wrote yesterday, Gov. Chris Gregoire and some cops didn’t like that. The governor told the Department of Health to go talk to more people, get more input, and reconsider the pound-a-month plan.
"I wouldn't say she was upset" by the amount, said Gregoire's spokesman, Pearse Edwards, but she believed input had been one-sided.
But if that’s the case, whose fault is it? No one in law enforcement or the medical community should have been surprised the Department of Health was trying to clear up one of the big gray areas of the medical marijuana law.
Officials with the Washington Association of Prosecuting Attorneys and the Washington Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs testified on the bill last year. They certainly knew what was in the measure.
When the rule-making process began last year, there was a news release sent out and, as required by law, details were published in the state register. But the Department of Health did more to comply with the Legislature’s direction that experts be consulted and interested parties be given a chance to comment. An e-mail that was headlined, “Defining a 60-day supply of medical marijuana,” was sent Aug. 7, 2007. It went to a long list of organizations asking for help and soliciting comments via e-mail, the Department’s Web site, public workshops or by snail mail.
That e-mail went to:
The Washington State Medical Association, medical researchers at the University of Washington, the Washington Association of Prosecuting Attorneys, Washington Association of Police chiefs and Sheriffs, the Department of Social and Health Services, the ACLU, the State Medical Quality Assurance Commission, the Board of Pharmacy, the Board of Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons, Washington State Patrol, the state department of Community, Trade and Economic Development, Washington Fish and Wildlife, statewide court administrative offices, all Washington NORML offices, Green Cross, and the Washington State Association of Counties and Cities.
It seems outreach wasn’t the problem. I can only assume that two pounds of pot was more clarification than some folks could handle.
Posted by Publicbulldog
10:52 AM, May 22, 2008
It seems outreach wasn’t the problem. I can only assume that two pounds of pot was more clarification than some folks could handle."
Particularly the ones under federal DOJ contracts,and the ones dependant on making money off of the enforcement process.
Such clear bright lines do not enable medical marijuana patients to be swept up along with the recreational users.
Norml does not like medical marijuana because it is a threat to open the doors for legalization. I just flat out do not truct Norml
.
Wapa,and WAPCA are afraid of budget cuts
SEIU is afraid CTED,WAPA,WAPCA will lose thousands of living wage jobs.
All these factions have financial intersts in either killing the initiative or undermining it .
Posted by Jim Guthrie
11:43 AM, May 22, 2008
Two pounds!? Pounds!?
Two ounces in two months, maybe. And even that's a lot ... at least from what other people tell me.
Posted by Publicbulldog
12:00 PM, May 22, 2008
Any lower and patients have to go to drug dealers.
The state needs to grow it and sell it if they want to hold everyone to one standard.
What If the standard is too low.The patients have no choice but to go to a drug dealer.
Posted by Jim Guthrie
1:37 PM, May 22, 2008
Any lower and patients have to go to drug dealers.
If you're suggesting 'any lower' meaning less than two pounds per every 60 days, you're off your rocker.
Do you have any idea just how much two POUNDS is? An item that is sold by the gram - the weight of a paperclip - or typically by the eight of an ounce and we're talking pounds? Get serious.
Posted by Winston Smith
1:53 PM, May 22, 2008
The State Patrol, prosecuting attorneys, pokice chiefs and sheriffs, Fish and Wildlife are being asked for medical advice?
So the next time I get sick, should I call law enforcement or a doctor?.
Posted by Publicbulldog
2:51 PM, May 22, 2008
"Any lower and patients have to go to drug dealers"
You don't know what kind of conditions and tolerance levels that we are talking about here.
If you are trying to say 2 pounds is a limit for ALL patients I am sorry science would not back you up on that.
The US goverment ships Irv Rosenfeld 11 oz every three weeks.
2 pounds is close to what the US government sends him(which is what the DOH used I believe)
Look the point is having people grow their own is stupid.The state should do it then nobody would care about how much people used.
Nobody cares how much morphine or opiates people use.
people should be allowed to grow a small amount of a special blend or variety and go to the county or state for the rest.
Posted by Roy Clark
6:22 PM, May 22, 2008
Two pounds of pot is good for the federal IND program but too much for Washington State.
Posted by Charlie Bermant
7:28 PM, May 22, 2008
The two pound limit may cover plants, which means that the yield of usable product is actually far less. But you can tell that everyone in this discussion is a pothead because they are viewing this whole matter through a drug abuser's eyes. Two pounds is a lot when measured with a standard pothead's eye, but these people are medical patients. They often bake the pot, a process that uses more to get the full effect. So while two pounds a month is a ridiculously high (!) amount by one yardstick, from a medical standpoint it is just enough,
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
Posted by upchuck
10:20 PM, May 22, 2008
2 lbs at wholesale street price is about $8000... maybe less if you buy all at once and likely comparable to 2 months supply of many pharmaceuticals for certain conditions.
and when you consider they'd likely weight the entire plant, also that to only need 2 months supply would require a continuous harvest requiring a high output year round fancy light and grow room setup rather than a seasonal fall harvest.
therefore, it looks more like 2 lbs is reasonable to low for what really should be a max limit giving plenty of breathing room or the benefit of the doubt to the patient. rather than a the standard expected stash size of high potency buds for most patients to keep handy at all times. because you know if cops find 2 lbs and 1/2 an oz. then they're going to throw these unlucky people in jail, or at least deny their needed organ transplants!
Posted by JimD
12:51 AM, May 23, 2008
Two pounds...man... My understanding (I may be wrong) is that patients prefer smoking to ingesting THC through the digstive system - an agrument against a pill form of the drug.
If that is true, this supposed extra quantity needed for baking is a red herring.
But I smoked pot for years (mah years) and surely smoking one pound per month puts the half-life in one's system way beyond the point of additional benefit.
I have trouble believing a patient could possibly be better served smoking more than half that, or less.
And if that's the case, many patients will have plenty to spare, which could end-up in the recreational market - a legitimate point of concern among law enforcement.
Two pounds? Really???
Posted by Publicbulldog
1:02 PM, May 23, 2008
Jim D ,
Some Patients use a vaporizor,so smoking a pound or two every 60 days does not cause lung disease issues.
I had 6 plants when I was terrorized by the state of Washington,and such little dry weight they didn't even bother confiscating it.
You can set a limit all you want but that does not mean a patient will ever have that much.
Most of your pot clubs though have growers that do have way more than one patient would need.
Posted by I-eat-my-meds
10:09 PM, May 23, 2008
oh my God, I read down these comments and you people really scare the hell out of me.. People making comments and admitting they know nothing about it. The state should grow it- then the price will be out of site as with black market medicine now. Patients prefer to smoke..again WRONG!. People that have chronic pain usually eat it. You get more pain relieve....merinol pills, contain one compound thc..it is a fact that with the combination of the whole plant you get so many more pain fighting compounds..
Finally, we need to force this through as it is..35 oz and 10x10 grow area...and we need to hold those responsible for the derail accountable. Contact those people and let them know you got your eye on them..
Posted by Publicbulldog
11:10 PM, May 23, 2008
Oh yeah the state will sell it for 500 bucks an ounce rather than the 400 bucks an ounce the pot clubs get.
The state should reschedule and let free market sources grow it.
Then the quality will go up and the price will go down.
Oh yeah we have to let the pot clubs make a bundle instead of the state.
We wouldn't want to put a damper on hempfest inc. and Norml by under cutting their empire.
Posted by I-eat-my-meds
11:47 PM, May 23, 2008
Again...
Finally, we need to force this through as it is..35 oz and 10x10 grow area...and we need to hold those responsible for the derail accountable. Contact those people and let them know you got your eye on them..
Next
the state cant resched it is out of there power..
I would rather not pay the state to take care of my medical needs...they for one are not doctors and seem not to care about Medical Marijuana Patients in the first place.
If I was you Publicbulldog I would start looking at the research and listen to patients like myself before I would listen to Gov and Police on issues they have absolutly no training in what so ever.
They are not doctors and I assume you are not one either. You have no experience with MMj or the illness that it helps...do some research man...May open a blind eye,.
Posted by JimD
12:23 AM, May 24, 2008
Publicbuldog & I eat my meds,
Thanks for the education, and a whole new perspective on how this works ;-)
Posted by Publicbulldog
6:30 AM, May 24, 2008
I eat my meds,
you need to eat your own words
On December 13,2007 I filed a petition to reschedule marijuana with the DOH,Board of Pharmacy.Joyce Roper of the Attorney Generals office confirmed that the state did in fact have the authority to reschedule marijuana. I have already filed one petition to reschedule, and another should get a meeting with the DOH July 17-18 in Olympia,at the DOH. I suggest you attend.
Earlier this year I presented arguments that stated the intent of the CSA was to share the burden with the states of enforceng controlled substances..
The feds do not have the resources to enforce the CSA.for every 1 fed agent there are 8 local law enforcement. The feds did not want to amend 903 of the CSA to give them complete authority over the states,or Implement Raich v Gonzales ,because it would strip the states of polce power,and force the feds to regulate matters previously regulated by the states. The feds to not want to spend astronomical amounts of resources(as their lawyers put it).So they condition federal grants instead.
here is a breakdown of the laws as I wrote in my Industrial cannabis Hemp petition to reschedule
The Washington State Pharmacy Board must amend RCW 69.50.204 and reschedule Industrial Cannabis Hemp to schedule 3 or 4 as allowable under RCW 69.50.201.
Washington State can reschedule marijuana stop listening to the non profit movement heads that make 200 bucks an hour to foam at the mouth in front of a podium from state to state.
Most of them are lawyers that make a minimum of 10 grand a case sorting out the current law in court.After patients refuse to be extorted for state pleas with clandestine plea bargains the Prosecutor sends them to the feds where the pot lawyerswill tell their clients they have to plead guilty and have no chance.
Rather than make jurisdiction arguments.
They like to say federal law trumps state law.and scare you with minimum federal sentences.This gets them past suppression and makes them at least 30,000.
Patients need to read more about the law themselves rather than assume the "White knghts" from the non profits have all the answers.
here is the link for my petition to reschedule on December 13 ,2007
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/laws/WSR/2008/05/08-05-032.htm
Posted by Publicbulldog
7:08 AM, May 24, 2008
Here is the actual meeting from my petition
Petition for Rulemaking. With assistance from Steve Sarich, John Worthington clarified his intent to
file a petition to amend administrative rules to reschedule medical and industrial marijuana with the
Board of Pharmacy and the petition for declaratory order to the Department of Health. Joyce Roper
explained the procedures and timelines involved with each process.
9
Highlights of presentation given by Mr. Worthington and Mr. Sarich
· Current schedule for marijuana is inconsistent with Washington medical marijuana laws.
· Medicinal value of marijuana.
· States have legal authority for rescheduling.
· Prevent the practice of law enforcement to act against medical marijuana patients. State law
enforcement agencies enforce federal drug laws by arresting and confiscating patient’s
marijuana to ensure access to federal grant moneys.
· Usable medication varies from plant to plant – variation due often to patients’ ability to care for
the plant.
· States have rescheduled marijuana – some of these states have medical marijuana laws and
others do not.
· Rescheduling marijuana will not change how physicians order medical marijuana. The federal
Drug Enforcement Administration prohibits the issuance of a prescription.
Ms. Roper briefed the board on the department’s rule activities to define what constitutes a sixty-day
supply of medical marijuana and prepare a report to the legislature on the options for an authorized
medical marijuana patient to obtain medical marijuana. She went on to read the board’s authority to
change schedules of controlled substances and in making a determination, what the board must
consider under the Uniformed Controlled Substance Act (RCW 64.50.210). MOTION: Vandana
Slatter moved that the Board initiate rulemaking to examine the scheduling of medical marijuana.
Susan Teil-Boyer second. MOTION FAILED. 2-4 Vandana Slatter and Susan Teil-Boyer supported
– George Roe, Gary Harris, Rosemarie Duff and Dan Connolly opposed.
The board summarized that it finds sufficient questions exist about the safety of medical
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Posted by Publicbulldog
10:32 AM, May 22, 2008
Here is a copy of a letter I sent to DOH
ATTN:Mary Selecky I am asking you to remove yourself from the medical marijuana rule making process.In 1996 you ignored Washington State legislation to implement a pilot program for medical marijuana.Ultimately that money was returned unspent,because you felt the program conflicted with federal laws. I am also asking that the Governor remove herself from the rule making process because she is currently under contract with the DOJ to administer a federal drug control policy while in charge of the Governors counter drug program with the Washington State National Guard. While Attorney General ,Christine Gregoire certified DOJ grants to enforce a federal drug control policy,for the state ,counties and cities.Attorney General Gregoire also fought to overturn a Tacoma court ruling allowing a man to use medical marijuana.That man later died, suffering until his last breaths. I am also asking to remove law enforcement from the rule making process due to their agreements with the DOJ to enforce a federal drug control policy. Any involvement from people under federal contract with the DOJ, that have agreed to enforce a federal drug control policy,or people with a proven history of being anti medical marijuana, would be a corrupt "open" process. There are at least 6 federal DOJ contracts signed by various members of the law enforcement community, WSP,LT Governor,and the Governor. Maintaining reasonable objectivity while under federal grant contracts with the DOJ to enforce a federal drug control policy is not possible. A federal drug control policy does not include medical marijuana. The rule making process needs to be protected from these obvious conflicts of interests Thank You
How can someone under federal contract to enforce a federal drug control policy,maintain reasonable objectivity.
These people do not want medical marijuana out of the enforcement loop.
Their involvement in the medical marijuana rule making process should not be allowed.
Until these federal contracts are terminated with 30 days written notice,I don't want to see anyone under federal grant contract anywhere near medical marijuana rule making.
SEIU does not like the initiative because the sheriffs and police chiefs don't like it.Norml does not like the initiative either.All are trying to position themselves to undermine the initiative.The marijuana enforcement industry wants medical marijuana in the enforcement loop.They will corrupt the open rule making process if givin the chance.
They all want money.The initiative tips over their apple cart.They are going all out to undermine the will of the people.