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February 2, 2008 8:24 PM

Neighbors talk politics in Clark County

FELIDA, Clark County -- Former Secretary of State Ralph Munro used to list off three reasons why presidential nominating caucuses would never be popular among anyone other than party activists and insiders:

“To succeed at a caucus you have to argue. You have to argue with your neighbor. You have to argue with your neighbor about politics. And people don't like to argue about politics or religion."

But next Saturday’s caucuses may be the best attended in a long time. I’ve found a high level of interest in the presidential race as I’ve driven around the state. And I don’t know about arguing, but in talking with three families here Saturday afternoon, I didn’t see any reluctance to speak candidly about politics even if it meant debate and disagreements among neighbors.

All five of the registered voters I spent two hours with plan to attend a caucus Saturday. And only one of those has ever done it before in Washington. The voters I shared coffee and donuts with are an indicator of an election that has grabbed the public’s attention. These voters are more interested, though, in change in general than in any specific candidate.

I stopped in Felida, a bit of unincorporated Clark County adjacent to Vancouver and not far from the Columbia River, at the invitation of Jon DeVore. Regular readers will know him as stilwell, a commenter on this blog as well as a blogger in his own right. He’s 43 and a stay-at-home dad with his two girls, Lauren and Emily. His wife, Diana, also 43, is a pharmacist for a large national retailer.

Jon DeVore in his living room.

The DeVores are Democrats. Jon thinks his subdivision is pretty evenly split between Democrats and Republicans. He invited everyone in the cul-de-sac to his house yesterday, telling them we were going to have an informal and friendly political discussion.

Two other couples joined us. From next door was Scott and Mitsu Clark, both in their 50s. The Millers, Ken, 72, and Sandra, 71, also came.

I knew someone in the Clark house was a fan of Republican Ron Paul because there was a big campaign sign planted in the front yard. It’s the only sign I saw in the subdivision, known as West of Westmoor.

Scott Clark said it’s the first time he has ever advertised his political affiliation that way. He has also donated $50 to the Paul campaign. He says he agrees with almost all of the Texas congressman’s libertarian views.

“I think this country really needs to be shaken up and brought back to Constitutional realities.”

Clark, an insurance company auditor and Vietnam-era Air Force veteran, agrees with Paul that America should return to the gold standard and said the nation’s central banks “have really done the country a disservice.” He said taxes are too high.

He separates from Paul on issues of foreign policy. He said that Paul’s isolationist view could make the world more dangerous, saying, for example, that Israel would likely take a more aggressive stance against its enemies if it no longer had close connections to the United States.

Clark’s wife, Mitsu, is Japanese and not a U.S. citizen and cannot vote.

Mitsu and Scott Clark.

Ken Miller, a retired WSU Vancouver professor, arrived last, and only after the Cougar basketball game had ended. He says he lives and dies by his team. But he’s also passionate about this election. And he quickly disproved Munro’s theory that neighbors won’t publicly disagree with each other.

“I’m not going to vote for a Republican. Those people are deluding themselves with regard to the war in Iraq and the state of the country as a whole.
“I agree with Scott that our country is at a real crossroads here.”

But Miller sees the answer coming from one of the two Democrats in the race. He said he doesn’t have a preference between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama and could be equally excited about either one. As he talked, though, Miller made a case that Obama is best-suited to do the sort of unifying he thinks the country so badly needs.

Sandra Miller is a retired Vancouver school speech therapist. She spent this morning volunteering to supervise juvenile offenders doing community work. She, too, is still on the fence about which Democrat she’ll back. But there’s no doubt about her feelings about President Bush.

“It’s just been eight years of the worst things. “We’ve had lies to start a war -- a war we had no reason to start.”

Sandra began to recite the day’s news of bombings in Iraq when her husband scooted to the edge of the couch and said:

“Sandra, it’s not just the war. We have a government shrouded in secrecy. … In Congress we have people who talk past each other and the leader we have is fine with this so he can do whatever he wants.”

To understand the depth of Ken Miller’s feelings, consider the hesitation in his voice when he told his neighbors this secret:

“I’ll admit to you, I voted for Eisenhower … I hate to admit it, but I think I voted for Richard Nixon over Humphrey.”

From left, Diana DeVore, Sandra and Ken Miller.

The Millers and Clarks have lived on the cul-de-sac since 1999, when the development was completed. The DeVores came in 2003. It’s a friendly neighborhood with a big, group, Fourth of July celebration.

It’s the sort of place where neighbors keep an eye out for each other.

“You can’t do anything bad because everyone will know,” joked Mitsu Clark.

Last year, Jon dislocated his shoulder in the middle of the street after going head-over-handlebars on one of the kid’s scooters. He said every one of his neighbors rushed out to help. And when the paramedic was checking for brain function and asked him who was president, Jon answered, “Al Gore." The neighbors assured the medics that DeVore’s brain was running normally -- he just never got over the 2000 election.

But even though they all seem familiar with DeVore’s politics, there are still some unknowns on the street. Several families invited today didn’t make it, which was a bit of a disappointment to Sandra, who said.

“I’d love to know their politics.”

Diana knew enough to say, “It’s a divided house.”

And there are things still to learn about each other. Scott may have been adding his secret to make Ken feel better about his Ike and Nixon votes when he said his first vote was for Nixon’s re-election in 1972. But there was no common ground when Scott added:

“I still think he was a great man. … A great statesman.”

At this point Scott surprised me. He acknowledged the long odds of Paul getting the nomination and said he has a back-up candidate.

“My second choice is Obama. I’m not a Republican. I’m for whoever can solve our problems.”

The DeVores were gracious hosts and restrained about jumping into the debate. But they both have strong feelings about politics. They are ardent opponents of the Iraq war and of President Bush. They yearn for universal health care.

Diana says she’s happy that the election is attracting new voters.

“Anything that brings them out is good, even if it’s Oprah,” she said of Obama’s popular backer. But she also feels a Democratic tide rising that gives her a new confidence.

"This year as a Democrat I don’t feel like I need to stay in a closet.”

She said that Repubicans’ reliance on “family values” in the 2004 campaign made her resent “being made to feel that we couldn’t have good family values.”

Jon had been leaning toward John Edwards. A week before Washington’s caucus he’s unsure whether he’ll cast his vote for Clinton or Obama.

“I think someone could persuade me one way or the other.”

He wonders, as many I’ve talked to do as well, if Clinton’s negatives may make her less electable than Obama.

“Opinions about Hillary Clinton are set in dried concrete.”

He said that Bush has messed up the entire federal government, not just the White House operations, as political inclinations reached into all corners of the government.

“We need a leader who will let the military officers do their job.”

That made Sandra Miller discount the argument that Obama lacks experience.

“That’s why I’m wondering if experience really matters that much if he gets the right people around him.”

Sandra said she supports mandatory public service for all young adults. She said they could join the military or the Peace Corps or do some work domestically, like FDR’s Civilian Conservation Corps.

“Roosevelt had it right,” she said.

Diana disagreed, saying national service of any sort should not be mandatory.

As a pharmacist, Diana says she’s learned first-hand that America’s health care system is way too complicated and driven too much by concern for the bottom line as part of the GOP plan to deregulate business.

“I believe the Republicans have taken away a lot of the controls and there is a lot more free trade and the rich get richer.”

The same point was made about the current home mortgage crisis, that government aid would now benefit the wealthy, making them even richer.

Scott:

“I can’t figure out what’s wrong with the rich getting richer.”

Diana said that the rich are partly to blame for the crisis because there were people tempted by artificially low mortgage offers.

Ken Miller quieted the room for a moment when he said that America faces two major challenges: The potential demise of the middle class and the government’s inability to operate within a budget. He worries about more U.S. debt being held by foreign countries and businesses.

“We have to start living within our means. I just don’t think this can go on forever.”

Scott:

“You are a Ron Paul supporter and you don’t even realize it.”

Ken:

“I’m not.”

There were other disagreements. Sandra worried that Republican Mike Huckabee talks about religion too much when he campaigns and wouldn’t keep enough distance between church and state. Scott, though, said that’s already gone too far.

“You can barely say God in the public schools. Ninety percent of Americans are Christian and you can’t even have a nativity scene in the town square.”

“Good,” said Sandra.

And then Sandra said English should be the only language in the United States, which Jon and Diana objected to. They said the argument for an official language was trumped up by Republicans.

“This is the fear of the other,” he said.

The debate was always polite. It did get a bit hard to follow all the conversations during the few times it seemed everyone was talking at once. But we had talked about politics and religion and neighbors disagreed with neighbors with no hurt feelings or angry words.

They all said they’d make their way to the local school Saturday to vote in the caucuses. The DeVores and the Millers will be in the gym with their fellow Democrats just to decide between two candidates. Scott Clark will be in the library with the Republicans making a stand for a long-shot presidential campaign.

And to be sure, there are no hard feelings from today’s discussion. They’ll all be at the Clark’s tomorrow to watch the Super Bowl.

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Posted by Hinton

9:53 AM, Feb 03, 2008

Why am I not surprised that you would wind up at the house of your fellow uber-leftist? Talk about a waste of time. You didn't even need to "interview" him to know what he was going to say.

You blew an opportunity to actually get a fresh view instead of one you already had heard, and shilled on your own blog, and pushed and pushed and pushed... and you didn't take it.

Not your best effort, Postman.

Posted by stink

10:24 AM, Feb 03, 2008

I agree with Hinton. Postman needs to visit Hinton's trailer park to get what the real Americans are thinking.

Posted by Mark

10:30 AM, Feb 03, 2008

Yeah, Hinton must be a trailer park welfare republican...all he ever does is comment on this blog. Damn white trash wellfare cheats stealing other people's wi-fi so they can blog...

Posted by stilwell

11:18 AM, Feb 03, 2008

Hinton--

Yes, I 'm so opposed to other views that I invited the Ron Paul supporter in to talk about putting us back on the gold standard. You know what, he may be a Ron Paul supporter but he's a heck of a good guy and a fine person to have as a neighbor. And there are people I know who supported Bush who are also fine people.

All did was give Postman my contact info, with the side comment that "in a pinch I could try to round up some neighbors." So he took me up on it. Funny what happens when you extend an invitation to someone.

I invited everyone on our little street, Republican or independent or Democrat, and then it was up to those folks to show up if they wanted to and could attend. Two families had sporting events and one family had an illness, unfortunately.

Further, while I knew I would participate, I let the other people talk. And talk they did. :-)

It's not like Postman isn't interviewing Republicans on his journey around the state.

I can't say for certain, but there is a true desire for better leadership building among regular people that we political junkies can miss or, perhaps worse, misinterpret.

The discussion in my living room did get fairly far-ranging at times, so I'm sure it was a challenge to follow it sometimes.

Posted by Yikes

11:26 AM, Feb 03, 2008

David, David, David---
An overweight, unemployed Blogger and 2 former Government employees on the State Retirement dole.
That's just great.
Then a Ron Paul supporter who would vote for Obama.
Real representative of Clark County David.

Why not include some mainstream folks who are Business Owners...that risk capital & create jobs?

Try again David.

Posted by stillwell

12:11 PM, Feb 03, 2008

Yes, David, "Yikes" is a well-known local business owner of the chain outfit "Ad Hominems R Us." I say you go interview him or her, if he or she has the guts.

Posted by gary

12:40 PM, Feb 03, 2008

Got to object to Yikes here. Yikes is another one of those character assassination experts who obviously thinks they know everything from a couple hundred written words.

Yes, Jon's overweight, but everything else in the comment is incredibly myopic. Jon's a house husband by choice, doing a wonderful job of raising his kids and running the household. I'm actually envious that he is in a position where he can do this and do it well.

I would also venture that there are nearly as many government workers as business owners. And if you think government is not needed, think about it next time you need police, fire or education services. Think about it the next time you aren't hit up for a handout from some scruffy poor soul. That guy isn't there because he got some support provided by, that's right, some government program.

As far as the Ron Paul supporter who also likes Obama, that's hardly a unique viewpoint in Clark County. Clark County is a strange place for politics. Just look at Hinton.

Posted by stilwell

12:52 PM, Feb 03, 2008

I prefer "big-stomached."

Posted by Martha

11:25 PM, Feb 03, 2008

Yikes is entitled to his/her opinion, but since when does a person’s body type or employment status matter when discussing politics? And it’s incorrect to say people are “on the dole” when they’ve worked enough years for their employer to qualify for retirement funds. It’s called being retired and they’ve been saving for it for years.

Seems to me Postman did meet with a representative group in Clark County – he went to a new neighborhood, and we have so many of those that he chose the type of environment we may be known best for.

Posted by YIKES

8:34 AM, Feb 04, 2008

stilwell--
Sorry for referring to you as overweight. You seem like a good natured fella. I should have called you Cherubic.
Just like the unemployed tag. Since you are a dedicated Blogger, perhaps I should have referred to you as a Writer...or even an Artist.
We are blessed in America not to miss many meals.
Amen to that stilwell??

I know 1 other guy who was a stay at home Dad. He also worked from home. Once the kids are in Public Schools, not generating an income is called Unemployed. Your kids do or will go to Public Schools stilwell???

Posted by YIKES

8:43 AM, Feb 04, 2008

Martha-
Too many folks in government forget that their paychecks come from TAXES paid by hardworking people...especially in upper academia. The Public University system is the biggest, least accountable, least effective moneypit I can think of. Worse than Iraq. Professors have done a superb job looking out for themselves and ratcheting up the cost of higher education by an astronomical percentage. A HUGE part of the escalating cost is the Retirement Fund. It's atrocious. Professors at University A point to salary's at University B...and get raises. Then B points to C.....on ad infinitum.
Perhaps the professor can address the astronomical inflation in the cost of higher education?? Since he was in the system so long, I bet he knows more about that than the Iraq War.

If you question whether the Public University System is broken, I have 2 words...Ward Churchill.

Posted by stilwell

12:13 PM, Feb 04, 2008

Yikes--

You had an additional 12 hours or more and that's the best you can do? Do you even know what "ad hominem" means?

Since you're such an expert at telling other people how to run their lives, please feel free to tell everyone here where you work and what you do. Perhaps I can join you in whatever wondrous work you do that makes your view of the world automatically correct.

Maybe I can sit down with your boss and we can chat? I'm thinking I'd like to go into finance.

Posted by Elliott

4:18 PM, Feb 04, 2008

The corporate system is the biggest, least accountable, least effective moneypit I can think of. Worse than Iraq. Employees have done a superb job looking out for themselves and ratcheting up the cost of products by an astronomical percentage. A HUGE part of the escalating cost is the stock options and salaries. It's atrocious. Employees at Company A point to salary's at Company B...and get raises. Then B points to C.....on ad infinitum.

Posted by YIKES

4:32 PM, Feb 04, 2008

Elliott--
Point well taken. There has been a lot of that. But same holds true for the government sector...take a look at the State Retirement payouts. How many retirees managed to get "promoted" and salaries inflated for the last 2 years of "service" as retirement benefits are based on the highest 2 years. It would make you want to puke. There is a scam.
And so is Public Higher Education.
Have you ever looked at the Budgets of WSU and the University of Washington??
With the donations received, education should be much less. It is salary & benefits of those at the trough that have caused the skyrocketing inflation on education.
Think about it Elliott.
I'm a hard-ass fiscal conservative who believes in affordable and accountable government. Corporate America concerns me too......especially CEO captive Boards.
But there are checks & balances.
Ultimately the shareholders rule.
If I see a company with outrageous compensation, I do not buy it. Simple.
With Big, Bloated Government.....where is the check unless you stop tax increases??

Posted by YIKES

4:37 PM, Feb 04, 2008

Stilwell sez "Since you're such an expert at telling other people how to run their lives, please feel free to tell everyone here where you work and what you do. Perhaps I can join you in whatever wondrous work you do that makes your view of the world automatically correct."

Geez stilwell, where did I ever tell you how to run your life? When did I say my view of the world is automatically correct?
You are resorting to the whining typical of most Leftists. Of course I have opinions. So do you. Let's rejoice in our differences.
However, you WILLINGLY participated in David Postman's Blog thread....sharing information about what you do, family & views. You also let him put in the less than flattering picture of you.

When people spend to much time with kids, they can become jaded & childlike.
Does the Birkenstock fit big fella?

Posted by blathering michael

9:16 PM, Feb 04, 2008

David, I can't believe how silly and vile your commenters can get. Didn't take 'em long before they were jumping, in lieu of winning arguments, on Jon's physicalness. You need more commenters to choose from.
Jon: it's great to finally see what you look like. It ain't easy to be a Democrat in Clark County: I salute you. These midgets are what have made the Republican Party what it is today. Godspeed, my brother...

Posted by blathering michael

9:19 PM, Feb 04, 2008

And David: if you're an "uber-leftist," you really suck at it.

Posted by JimD

12:40 AM, Feb 05, 2008

Yikes posted:
"However, you WILLINGLY participated in David Postman's Blog thread....sharing information about what you do, family & views. You also let him put in the less than flattering picture of you..."

Yikes, does your mother know you're tring to impersonate a grown up on her computer?

Posted by postman

7:22 AM, Feb 05, 2008

I haven't been keeping with the comments in the past day and just now read through this thread. First I want to thank Jon for inviting me and his neighbors over to talk about politics. It was one of the more interesting stops on my trip.

I think the Ron Paul supporter who says Obama is his second choice was particularly interesting. If any of you think that was some sort of set up by me or Jon, you're nuts. He wasn't the only person I talked to how had a Republican as first choice and Obama as their No. 2.

But boy I have to say I'm surprised that some of you would stoop to making nasty comments about someone's appearance. You need to grow up a little bit.

Posted by Jim Guthrie

9:51 AM, Feb 05, 2008

But boy I have to say I'm surprised that some of you would stoop to making nasty comments about someone's appearance. You need to grow up a little bit.

As opposed to comments about "Damn white trash welfare cheats" and "These midgets are what have made the Republican Party what it is today"?

No. 'Yikes' isn't doing himself any favors with his dumb comments about Stillwell's appearance. There are plenty of things to disagree with him on without resorting to personal attacks on his appearance.

However, (this isn't directed at you, David) I gotta say I grow very, very weary of one side acting like it's only the Right who does this. You know that whole splinter-in-someone-else's-eye-while-ignoring-the-beam-in- your-own thing?

If ya' all want to get down in the gutter and sling insults, have at it. See if it in any way helps your cause with the people who read but don't comment here. Trust me. It doesn't.

Posted by JimD

10:16 AM, Feb 05, 2008

As one who posts more gutter dogma on this site than most, me thinks you protest too much, Jim Guthrie.

Posted by YIKES

2:16 PM, Feb 05, 2008

Geez David, I must apologize. I thought your on-the-road threads were some kind of a joke...so I thought I would play along.
Let's recap your last 7 threads (from the most current):
1) Excited about Clinton in Clark County--4 passionate Hillary supporters including a big-time Dem. activist.
2) Romney Supporter Calls Himself "Weird Conservative"--hardly as positive as Clinton Headline and you managed to get in how this gentleman felt "shafted by the Republicans".
3) Neighbors in Clark Co.--4 Lefty's including a Lefty Blogger and 1 Ron Paul/Obama supporter.
Enough said.
4) A view from the Left--a Lefty antique guy and his Democratic Party activist Partner.
5) Dottie Lynch---Edwards supporter and Bush Hater.
6) Ed Mitchell---Republican!!!!
7) Grays Harbor journalist discusses Democratic Party dominance in Grays Harbor.
8) Charles Lauer, 2nd Amendment Gun Rights supporter who leans toward Huckabee...but votes for Democrats

Do you really think this is representative of Clark County?? You sure managed to get quite a few Democratic Party activists in there....and zero Republican activists.

A newspaper reporter often leaves a trail like a slug....long & slimey.